I got a Copyright Infringement Notice from UTV Internet

BrokenSpiral

I got an email this morning from my ISP, which is UTV internet, telling me that I had been identified as distributing material which infringes copyright law!

Anyone else get this?

********************************************

Recently your broadband connection was reported and identified as
distributing material which is infringing Copyright Law. As a customer of
UTV Internet you have agreed to the terms and conditions of the service
during registration as laid out at the following web address:

http://www.utvinternet.com/Residential/ClicksilverBroadband/legal_informatio
n.asp

We are obliged to inform you of this and to ask that you remove any material
which contravenes copyright law.
We also ask that such activity is stopped and does not continue in future.

In the event that such activity does not stop, your broadband connection may
be suspended by UTV and/or you could face further action by the owner of the
copyrighted material.


********************************************

vibe666

personally, I'd plead innocence and ask them to prove it and see where it ends up.

don't admit anything!!!

WillieCocker

Are you using torrents?

Dublin_Gunner

Someones been down/uploading DVD's / music / games etc

Stung.

Zascar

Shock Horror! Someone on the internet is downloading copyrighted material! I have never heard of this happening before. Someone call the Feds! I wonder if there is anyone else on the Internet doing this?

meditraitor

Ask them to prove it was YOU doing the downloading. It could have been your ma;) She didnt sign any contract

Dublin_Gunner

It wasn't me your Honour. I swear....................


I think its absolutely disgraceful that ISP's are now being turned into internet copyright police. Its none of their business.

Are Eircom gonna send out letters if someone can hear your music from the other end of the phone line?

If the record companies want to check up on this, they should be doing it, not the ISP's.

WillieCocker

meditraitor wrote: »

Ask them to prove it was YOU doing the downloading. It could have been your ma;) She didnt sign any contract

It's probably his ma he's worried about.
Bet teh internets is in her name.:pac:

Cabaal

I'm on UTV as well, I got nothing
But then I don't use any public P2P sites or download copyright material for that matter

chopperbyrne

There is nothing illegal about downloading copyrighted material, only uploading it or providing a download for it yourself.

BrokenSpiral

I'm using eMule.

I've just been through my downloads and I have no movies, mp3's or games downloading, just TV series!!!!

My guess is that they've seen my 50 gig's of traffic in the last month and have just sent it out to everyone with high usage trying to scare us!

I can't imagine that the TV company in the states are worried about my downloading of Lost and Prison Break!!!!!!!!

How could the ISP, or anyone else for that matter, actually know what specific files I was downloading?!

the_syco

chopperbyrne wrote: »

There is nothing illegal about downloading copyrighted material, only uploading it or providing a download for it yourself.

Erm... you don't seem to understand the word "copyright"... :rolleyes:

CiaranC

Cabaal wrote: »

I'm on UTV as well, I got nothing
But then I don't use any public P2P sites or download copyright material for that matter

Bully for you old chap

poindexter

when you download try make sure you're not seeding. it's the uploading you'll get in the **** for

watty

A common misapprehension.

If the right's holder didn't make it available to you, under Irish law you can be infringing copyright. (Civil offence)

Also if you defeat any kind of service access protection to access Copyright Material one is commiting a Criminal offence, "Theft of service". Lower fine


Also aiding/enabling "theft of service" or "copyright infringement" or blocking investigations of the same are also offences.

Obviously downloading copyright material you paid for or the rights holder makes available to you is OK.

It's simply more serious to make it available.

BrokenSpiral

My point was that initial focus of action against the P2P networks and their users was from the music labels, then the studios started chasing pople for pirate DVD's etc

I can't understand why they'd be interested in my downloads so I think it must be just a scare tactic!

Has anyone else got this email or something similar from their ISP's??

Think I might just move to rapidshare instead as it's one way, no uploading!!!

BrokenSpiral

And yes downloading of TV shows without expressed written copyright is illegal and I regularly beat myself with a club to punish myself for this awful crime! :-)

And yes I do believe that my ISP may cut me off which is why I've turned off my downloads. :-(

Zascar

I'd say they just send out those mails just to scare people. They look at the top downloaders - and chances are they are not only downloading Linux distro's.

Downloading is totally illegal but you are far far more likely to get screwed if you are sharing.

Johnboy1951

I suggest a reply stating that you were unaware of any copyright infringements and respectfully request sufficient information from them so that you can ensure that any infringements do not occur in the future.
You can assure them that such information will enable you to block such actions in the future, but without the information you have no idea what you should do to ensure compliance.

That may elicit some information from them which will enable you to know what exactly it was that caused their letter.

Give no info and admit nothing, just request info to allow you to become compliant.

That puts the onus on them to help you to become compliant.

The response should be interesting ...... No IANAL!

watty

Zascar wrote: »

I'd say they just send out those mails just to scare people. They look at the top downloaders - and chances are they are not only downloading Linux distro's.

Downloading is totally illegal but you are far far more likely to get screwed if you are sharing.

Downloading may be illegal or legal depending on the status of the content.

I'm sure I download about 8G of files a month, usually in a couple of days. All legal.

hightower1

What your doing is illegal, plain and simple. No matter who actually did the downloading it was through your connection and its your responsibility to make sure that no one does that.

The contract you signed does say your not allowed do this... you signed it and breached the contract by doing so. Common sense would indicate that they will monitor all high use customers and then look closer at those logs.
P2P users would put a lot more strain on their network so its in their best interest to conduct their investigation like this.

Requesting the information on the download in question would only be a case of accessing your packet request log, filter it by size/destination ip address etc., printing it off and mailing it out.

As more and more customers turn to torrents and push network strain up ISP will start setting up specialized departments like this in greater size. As of right now not a lot of ISP's have very well staffed departments to cover copyright fraud and in fact are mostly done by tech departments as side duties. If you look at it from an ISP's point of view and a particular area is causing trouble with people seeing slow speeds, dropping connections etc. the options are to invest and increase the network there or use the contracts and tools already in place to reduce the load instead of investing to increase capacity.

Nothing is a greater driver of policy than cost saving, so letters , actions and departments like this are going to become more and more common place. Its perfectly legal to monitor the data stream given valid reasons and anyone signing to have a broadband connection agreed to this by putting down their signature.

BrokenSpiral

BrokenSpiral wrote: »

I'm using eMule.

I've just been through my downloads and I have no movies, mp3's or games downloading, just TV series!!!!

My guess is that they've seen my 50 gig's of traffic in the last month and have just sent it out to everyone with high usage trying to scare us!

I can't imagine that the TV company in the states are worried about my downloading of Lost and Prison Break!!!!!!!!

How could the ISP, or anyone else for that matter, actually know what specific files I was downloading?!

Emule!

You were asking for it, probably the most unsafe p2p protocol there is. you ip can be seen by almost anybody connecting to you.

1st of all get peerguardian which blocks out knows government, fake p2p and anti copyrights ips.

If your going to use anything use torrents or newsgroups with SSL encryption to make your traffic nearly anonymous.

vibe666

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Give no info and admit nothing, just request info to allow you to become compliant.

ditto.

if they cannot provide proof that you were doing anything illegal then you have nothing to answer for.

you don't see the courts locking potential criminals up because they look a bit shifty. they have to prove a crime was committed.

all the letter writing and finger waving doesn't change the fact that unless they can show you proof that you infringed copyright (say for instance tracking your IP address to posts here for example where you have admitted already it:rolleyes:) you have no crime to answer for. the burden of proof is on them to show that you (or someone using your internet connection, which you still hold some responsibility for) commited a crime.

GerardKeating

BrokenSpiral wrote: »

I've just been through my downloads and I have no movies, mp3's or games downloading, just TV series!!!!

TV Series are copyrighted, belive it or not...

seanybiker

poindexter wrote: »

when you download try make sure you're not seeding. it's the uploading you'll get in the **** for

Ya big dirty leecher ya lol. I always seed for a little bit. Its my way of saying thanks for scabbing the movie.

JohnC.

What you are downloading isn't really relevant. They are after people sharing, ie. uploading, be it via torrent, emule or whatever p2p network people choose to use. The nature of p2p means that you will be uploading as well as downloading, unless you specifically stop it sharing, which can cause other issues regarding usability.

Keith186

watty wrote: »

Downloading may be illegal or legal depending on the status of the content.

I'm sure I download about 8G of files a month, usually in a couple of days. All legal.

Look at Mister High & Mighty. I'm sure you pissed on a toilet seat in your time, not illegal but a negative on society in general.

So what if he downloaded Lost or Prison Break, he paid his TV licence at least (I hope anyway!).

JohnC.

Keith186 wrote: »

So what if he downloaded Lost or Prison Break, he paid his TV licence at least (I hope anyway!).

Can you show us where it says paying the TV licence gives us permission to download whatever we want? Thought not.

BaconZombie

Following that logic:

This Image which contains a copyrighted logo is on UTV's homepage so when you visit there homepage you are downloading the copyright image without the consent of the owner.

watty wrote: »

A common misapprehension.

If the right's holder didn't make it available to you, under Irish law you can be infringing copyright. (Civil offence)

Also if you defeat any kind of service access protection to access Copyright Material one is commiting a Criminal offence, "Theft of service". Lower fine


Also aiding/enabling "theft of service" or "copyright infringement" or blocking investigations of the same are also offences.

Obviously downloading copyright material you paid for or the rights holder makes available to you is OK.

It's simply more serious to make it available.

lickarse2

If you're looking for plausible deniability, unsecure your wireless network.

Might have other issues, but no-one can prove it was you.

vibe666

Keith186 wrote: »

Look at Mister High & Mighty. I'm sure you pissed on a toilet seat in your time, not illegal but a negative on society in general.

So what if he downloaded Lost or Prison Break, he paid his TV licence at least (I hope anyway!).

that's not really a very constructive reply to a post with a valid point.

it's something watty happens to know a lot about, he's just pointing out the legal side of it, nobody is accusing anyone of anything.

paying your tv licence does not entitle you to make illegal copes of copywrite material and distribute it, which is what you are effectively doing when you download a torrent. you download and you upload, therefore creating a copy for yourself and distributing parts of what you downloaded to other people to allow them to do the same.

plenty of people do it, but it doesn't make it legal, no matter how you try and justify it. much better to just come to terms with being a lawbreaker like I have.

lickarse2 wrote: »

If you're looking for plausible deniability, unsecure your wireless network.

Might have other issues, but no-one can prove it was you.

that's not going to help you either, you still have a responsibility to keep your network secure. ignorance is not a valid defence.

Firetrap

Looking at the letter that the OP received, does this mean that if he/she doesn't download any more copyright material that no further action will be taken?

seanybiker

Firetrap wrote: »

Looking at the letter that the OP received, does this mean that if he/she doesn't download any more copyright material that no further action will be taken?

seems to be that alright

I agree with the motion to reply o them asking them how you can become compliant with their copyright infringement policies.

Please, whatever you do, reply back to them saying something. Anything. I'm really curious to see how this goes.

dub45

Firetrap wrote: »

Looking at the letter that the OP received, does this mean that if he/she doesn't download any more copyright material that no further action will be taken?

The email the op received refers to distributing material.

Recently your broadband connection was reported and identified as
distributing material which is infringing Copyright Law

Flyboy!!!

Kahless wrote: »

Can you show us where it says paying the TV licence gives us permission to download whatever we want? Thought not.

Yeah, coz downloading is truly evil. Sins and stones, blah blah blah. It's all old news and it's not really much of an argument. Everything but everything is illegal unless sanctioned by the Government. There will always be people harping on about how doing something deemed illegal is a terrible crime, likening those who do it to Pol Pot. Everybody commits illegal acts, small, big, indifferent and if they say otherwise, they're lying, even the pope because everything bar sleeping, eating, breathing is a crime somewhere. ISPs are only getting on this because they're afraid if they don't and they'll get sued which will hurt their bottom line. That's all they care about. If everyone they sent those letters to switched ISP tomorrow, they'd quickly change their tune. They aren't in business to nanny people, that costs them money, if all of a sudden it cost them too much money they'd either go out of business or they'd stop playing nanny. It doesn't take a high IQ to figure out which choice they'll make.

Besides, without copyright infringement, modern music would be vastly different. There'd be no Beastie Boys, there'd be no Girls Aloud, there'd be no SugarBabes, no Eminem, no Kanye West, no Lady GaGa, the list is as long as the record charts. If you think otherwise, you're just nieve. The vast majority of music is based on sampling, cutting, looping, so on and so forth. There are two ways this can go, copyright will die or we'll be living in a police state, I'm not a conspiracy theorist or a crazy pinko, it's just obvious.

http://www.ubu.com/sound/dj_food.html

Think I'm wrong? Check the tune out. Or for you naughty naughty torrent types!:

http://www.djfood.org/DJ%20Food%20-%20Raiding%20the%2020th%20Century%20(Word%20and%20Music%20Expansion)%20DELUXE.torrent

poindexter

Mr.S wrote: »

That defies the whole point of torrents though, and you'll get a **** download speed if your not seeding at the same time.

is it not the uploading and therefore sharing of files that is illegal??

seanybiker wrote: »

Ya big dirty leecher ya lol. I always seed for a little bit. Its my way of saying thanks for scabbing the movie.

i always seed and keep it on when am not on

BrokenSpiral

BrokenSpiral wrote: »

I'm using eMule.

How could the ISP, or anyone else for that matter, actually know what specific files I was downloading?!

We should all just shake our heads and walk away......EMULE?? Are you serious? :eek:
The only people who use that are the MPIAA, RIAA and you.

If you got a letter then be under no illusion that the rights management outfit that contacted UTV have logged your ip sharing back the material you downloaded. Your only consideration should be a change of isp and and i strongly suggest you google "private torrent tracker" (even if american users now regularly get infringement notices for material they get on some of the best known "private" sites, tinfoil hat time!!)

NB: DO NOT initiate contact with the isp, any info you give or statement then becomes official record something you don't want. Initiating contact has the potential to give them info they might not have on you. Most ISPs pass on the notice but don't give "them" any info on the customer implicated as it breeches privacy laws.The letters are a heavy handed scare tactic but one you should act upon by leaving the isp asap thus sending them a very clear message.

vibe666

Flyboy!!! wrote: »

Yeah, coz downloading is truly evil. Sins and stones, blah blah blah. It's all old news and it's not really much of an argument.

unfortunately it is exactly the argument.

it's like driving over the speed limit and getting pulled over. nobody is saying that we all don't do it on occasion, but you're not going to get any sympathy from here that you got caught.

you break the law and you take your chances, whether it's a morally right or wrong law is largely irrelevant.

the OP has three choices really. he can either:

a) comply with their request.

b) claim innocence and ask them to prove it.

c) he can look into why he got caught and change the way he does things so that next time he doesn't get caught.

not that I would be condoning that particular course of action on an open internet forum, but those are his choices as I see it.

Cabaal

Keith186 wrote: »

So what if he downloaded Lost or Prison Break, he paid his TV licence at least (I hope anyway!).

TV license or no TV license its still illegal, you can try justify it anyway you want.

Lads if your downloading anything, be it TV show, movie or software and you don't have permission from the rights holder then this is illegal.

You can attempt to justify it anyway you want, but your still wrong.

It amuses me that just because people have downloaded stuff over the passed few years they now think its legal,

watty

The TV licence is nothing to do with consuming programs, or even watching RTE.

It's a tax on having an Apparatus (tV tuner, VHS tuner, cable/DTT/Sat/IPTV boxes/pc card/mediacentre) that can receive Broadcasts. Even if you can't get RTE (i.e. FreeToAir dish only for BBC/ITV/C4/Five) you still pay.

Broadcasts in any case are not "downloads" any recording is supposed to be only of a temporary nature and for personal use. So a particular episode broadcast does not create a download right.

darkestlord

If I was you I would change ISP. Use a private torrent site, and use peerguardian and dont exceed your download limit. Its not a sure way of not getting caught, but It's worked for me.

godskitchen

They have to be seen to do something, they can now turn around to the record companies and point to the X numbers of letters they are sending out.

I think they are hoping to then see a decrease in downloads and they can point to this as job done.

Stop using emule right now. Would you go for a drive with some one who had not passed a driving test, had no insurrance, insisted you did not put on a seatbelt and was blind drunk? No, so do not use emule.

Zapho

BrokenSpiral wrote: »

I'm using eMule.

I've just been through my downloads and I have no movies, mp3's or games downloading, just TV series!!!!

My guess is that they've seen my 50 gig's of traffic in the last month and have just sent it out to everyone with high usage trying to scare us!

I can't imagine that the TV company in the states are worried about my downloading of Lost and Prison Break!!!!!!!!

How could the ISP, or anyone else for that matter, actually know what specific files I was downloading?!

I'd assume they just saw that typical eMule traffic was coming from your ip address making the assumption that no one really uses p2p clients to just downloaded the nightly builds of various linux distros!

I'm pretty annoyed that Irish ISPs allowed themselves to be bullied into being copyright cops by American record labels.

Zapho

Zapho wrote: »

I'd assume they just saw that typical eMule traffic was coming from your ip address making the assumption that no one really uses p2p clients to just downloaded the nightly builds of various linux distros!

I'm pretty annoyed that Irish ISPs allowed themselves to be bullied into being copyright cops by American record labels.

Dont assume because it makes an ass...etc etc. UTV dont monitor data packets, the action was and always is initiated by a third party who monitor and record ip address' that connect to hosts sharing illegal material on the various p2p protocols.

O'Coonassa

hightower1 wrote: »

What your doing is illegal, plain and simple. No matter who actually did the downloading it was through your connection and its your responsibility to make sure that no one does that.

The contract you signed does say your not allowed do this... you signed it and breached the contract by doing so.

If you have a copyright on something can I go around enforcing it without your say so? Seems like that's what UTV are doing here. OP you should get more info from them, ask what copyright they think you've breached and when.

BaconZombie

Well the RIAA, MPAA and BPI have been doing that for years.

O'Coonassa wrote: »

If you have a copyright on something can I go around enforcing it without your say so? Seems like that's what UTV are doing here. OP you should get more info from them, ask what copyright they think you've breached and when.

Zascar

david7536 wrote: »

We should all just shake our heads and walk away......EMULE?? Are you serious? :eek:
The only people who use that are the MPIAA, RIAA and you.

LOL.

28064212

BOFH_139 wrote: »

Following that logic:

This Image which contains a copyrighted logo is on UTV's homepage so when you visit there homepage you are downloading the copyright image without the consent of the owner.

That's a completely inaccurate comparison. The copyright holder has made that image available to you by posting it on their publicly accessible website

Cabaal

28064212 wrote: »

That's a completely inaccurate comparison. The copyright holder has made that image available to you by posting it on their publicly accessible website

Where as the copyright holder did not make their movie accessible via a P2P source, a unauthorized third party did and you downloaded it from them

It doesn't matter if you didn't upload the file elsewhere after or during the download its still illegal

vibe666

Zapho wrote: »

...no one really uses p2p clients to just downloaded the nightly builds of various linux distros!

speak for yourself. I just downloaded installed the latest version of Linux Mint 7 yesterday and it's great.

I was thinking about the whole copyright 'thing' and it's been a good 10+ years since this all started back in the day with napster and the like and I can't help think that if the record companies and other copyright holders had looked at it and seen the signs back then they could have taken a different stance and seen that people wanted new ways to get their music etc. and provided a legal way for their customers to do that at the right price.

I'm not under any illusions, I've no doubt that there would still be piracy out there, it was there before the internet was even born and isn't going anywhere and tbh is one of the frontrunners when it comes to new technology, but i think if given the choice back then when the majority of people were still happily paying for albums on CD, most people would have gone for it and this whole mainstream piracy for the everyman thing could have been (to a large extent) avoided.

unfortunately, now people have had a good taste of 'free' music, movies,TV shows and software online, it's going to be very hard to get them to break the habit.