Mommy and Daddy

sorella

I am thinking more re the effect on people, and why people do this than of the effect on the animals, who of course go by tone and affection.

That is the difference here!

So we are on different pages.

Probably because many of my contacts are in the US where the way "animal companions " are seen is very different; they are not even called pets there. I have to be very careful what i say.....

And your grammar is not shoddy:)

CamillaRhodes wrote: »

Hi Sorella, I actually think we agree on this point, rather than disagreeing! Semantics are not always (or ever) fixed. Your case illustrates this clearly. The man did not have a good relationship with his dog, had not trained it well or established a dynamic with him. The dog recognised the word 'stupid' when stated by the owner loudly, and thought that was his name. Therefore the dog, trying to be a good dog, came running when he heard the word 'stupid' uttered at a particular town of voice.

This illustrates that the meaning of the word 'stupid' for the dog meant 'my name'. The dog did not understand english, nor understand that the term 'stupid' is pejorative. The dog was simply trying to please his master, but without the correct cues to do so. The word 'stupid' did not matter to him, what mattered was his understanding of the 'meaning' of that word for him. Thus, in general, words themselves don't matter.

So, whether I refer to my cat as 'cat' or as 'baby' makes little difference to the cat, or to the love I feel for the cat. What matters is the meaning behind the words I use; if I use them in a loving way, then the cat understands this and expresses love for me in return. If I shout at her while calling her 'baby', the affection in the word is lost entirely.

I think we're on the same page here, just looking at it from slightly different angles

Last comment: can I hazard a guess that those who object to people calling their pets their babies, or themselves their pets' mommies/daddies, are the same people who would object to being referred to as "love" or "mate" by a stranger, or as "darling" or "baby" by a loved one?

I think the use of affectionate pet names for humans can be pretty controversial, I've been told off by people for doing so (though I mean it with the best possible intentions). Is it maybe the same reason people don't like similar usage regarding animals?

CamillaRhodes

sorella wrote: »

I am thinking more re the effect on people, and why people do this than of the effect on the animals

Fair enough... but again, semantics comes into play, rather than the words themselves.

When I use the word 'baby' when referring to my cat, I mean it as a term of affection. I do not actually think the cat is my baby, I know she is a cat. However, I love her very much. Probably if I saw her as a working animal, e.g. if she was only there to catch mice or whatever (as may be the opinion of some animal owners) then referring to her as 'baby' would be inappropriate.

As I said above, I call my boyfriend 'babe' - I certainly don't think he is my baby. And I will casually say to a shop assistant "thank you, love" even though I certainly don't love her, or will say "excuse me, mate" when getting past somebody on the train, when he is a complete stranger, and not my 'mate'. However, I use these terms to express goodwill and to try to bring warmth to a dialogue. As I also said above, I know some people don't like this. To them, I will try to curtail it, while secretly thinking what miserable, cold people they must be. (This is with the exception perhaps of older people, by which I mean 70 years +, for whom I know the use of such terms is culturally inappropriate).

I feel the same way about the use of these terms regarding our pets. I think very few people (in Europe, at least, perhaps not in the US!) have actually anthropomorphised their pets and believe that their cat or dog is their actual baby, it is simply expressing affection in a role which is already determined to be more like that of a parent and child (care-giver and care-receiver) than that of friends.

Having said that last point, you'll notice a lot of people above (I think mostly guys) referring to their dog as "buddy" - man's best friend and all that. Do those who object to the 'baby'/'mommy' moniker, also object to referring to the pet as a friend? I would be surprised by this. Yet, semantically, there is little difference. It's only words.

(p.s. thank you for the compliment on my grammar, don't you think a well-worded grammatically correct online discussion is amongst the nicest to enjoy?!? )

sorella

In the US - that was what I thought of immediately

Words do matter.

More than we realise often.

And most think very simply as I tend to do also.

I don't analyse like you do. much more instinctive than that.

This for me is about how we see and treat the animals in our minds and hearts.

To do the best for them we need to empathise with the reallity of them.

So often here we see those who get pulled up for not respecting the animals. Because they do not know what they really are.

There can be abuse, such as Sandy suffered, because folk cannot think past feeding them and maybe the odd walk. Cannot see what a dog really needs. Sandy has humbled and taught me for the last two years.

And more and more is I simply call her "Dog." With so much love and respect.

I am with EGAR on this; for me it does detract from the essence and dignity of the animals. Always I am in awe of the sheer dogginess of a dog; most of my errors with them have been because I was thinking too much in human terms.

My teacher on this keeps saying, "But they are dogs; they do not think like us." And she is always so right.

Time after time I stand corrected because of that. And next time I do not make that same mistake.

So I never use human terms with them, lest I sell them short as the dogs they are. Same with the cats. They are cats through and through and to be rejoiced in as that.

Each always to his own always of course:)

olaola

I think a point a lot of people are making here is that they are using the term between themselves and their partners/families. It's essentially nothing to do with the animal, but a term of endearment used within the home between family members. It's using the concept of the pet as a part of the family unit to act out affection on each other.

I suppose it's ingrained in the Irish mentality, people find it hard to be forward. So instead of saying 'I missed you', they say 'the dog missed its Daddy/big Sister/Auntie'. It's a childish and playful way of getting your point across without being too emotionally direct.

Noopti

I wish people would stop with the notion that calling an animal "baby" somehow means the person thinks it is a baby.

I am with EGAR on this; for me it does detract from the essence and dignity of the animals.

No it doesn't. If anything it detracts from your own perception of the animals dignity - and that is your problem, not the dogs or the person calling it "baby". The dog has no preception of "dignity" in the human sense.
If calling a dog "baby" detracts from it's essense as a dog then so does keeping a dog in a house, feeding it manufactured food and training it to sit and lie down.
All this is is another way for people to look down on others simply for calling their pets a name that has different letters to the name they call their own animals.

It would actually be quite pathetic, if it wasn't so laughably hyprocritical.

sorella

No one is looking down on anyone..... Why do you think that when someone does not agree with you?

You are misunderstanding the meaning of "dignity" here also. It means the dignity of individuality that each creature has, simpy. Its innate nature.

And yes, dogs have great dignity.
As do cats in a different way because they are cats and not dogs or humans.

Actually we do not feed our dogs manufactured food etc. If we did that would simply be to meet its physical doggy needs. Training is for safety; theirs and ours. Because they are dogs and cannot think for themlseves as we do.

But personally I would never teach a dog tricks that were not essential. My choice.

As we have said often in this thread, no one is being condescending etc.

We are each diifferent in how we act and react etc; as EGAR said, the response is indeed amazing; this post most of all.

Peace, please now? Whatever you call your dog is your choice; you surely do not need everyone to agree with you?

I am definitely not my dog's and cats'; mum; but a dear friend in the US tells me I am. Her culture does that . I do not; her choice, my choice.

Beauty in diversity.

Noopti wrote: »

I wish people would stop with the notion that calling an animal "baby" somehow means the person thinks it is a baby.



No it doesn't. If anything it detracts from your own perception of the animals dignity - and that is your problem, not the dogs or the person calling it "baby". The dog has no preception of "dignity" in the human sense.
If calling a dog "baby" detracts from it's essense as a dog then so does keeping a dog in a house, feeding it manufactured food and training it to sit and lie down.
All this is is another way for people to look down on others simply for calling their pets a name that has different letters to the name they call their own animals.

It would actually be quite pathetic, if it wasn't so laughably hyprocritical.

Our man in Havana

Stay on topic please.

Noopti

Sorella:
I never said a dog doesn't have dignity. I said a dog doesn't have a sense of dignity. We see the dignity in the animal, that is all.
Plus, it is nothing to do with "culture". It is just how some people refer to their pets as a term of endearment.

I just can't believe how people can think that something so innocent as a term of endearment can somehow reduce the dignity of the animal in question. In fact, it is incredibly ironic that the people saying it removes the dogs dignity are the very ones anthropomorphizing in that they are attributing human qualities such as a sense of dignity to an animal.

A pet dog being called baby is no different to it being called "cutie" or any other term of endearment. And it is when people preach down to others as if they are wrong, for example being told "We honour their true natures" to quote yourself, as if the others are not honoring that nature that you get the responses in this thread. As it simply rubs people up the wrong way, and understandably so in my opinion.

nearly

I was telling my fella there was a hot topic on the forum about calling pets baby, and referring to mommy or daddy... I think that's pretty weird too.

However, since they are kittens, I do sometimes say "wibble baby kitty" when kissing their bellies or somesuch. But I have to use their names because I think they can learn them- so mostly we call them 'Tora' and 'Saba' (or Saba-bear, and Tora-bear if they are being wild huntresses/fighters, though we know they aren't bears).

To refer to ourselves, my fella came up with "patron". I'd like to think we are their patrons, allowing them to be safe and comfortable while they enjoy being cats, and we enjoy their companionship.

leelee_m

at the end of the day why should it matter what people call their animals or whether they consider themselves to be the mommy or daddy, all that should matter is that the animals are loved and cared for!

lorna100

Ive a five year old pet cat, Nutmeg. She is my baby,babe,mammys girl, sweetheart, sweetpea, and occasionly princess.

She comes before everything in my life, she has been very ill recently, I needed to go to the doctor - short money and coulnt afford both so we went to the vets - she comes before me, always.

My friends ask 'hows the baba' etc. when they see me, not 'hows Nutmeg'. When she comes into my room at night for cuddles, she is greeted with 'hey sweetheart, mammy loves you'.

Even though she doesnt understand, I still tell her how precious she is and how much i love her daily. Why? because a) I love her b)I want to.

When she is upset or sick or distressed, I cradle her and hold her and tell her how important she is to me until she stops crying or her breathing slows down.

I speak to her in a totally different tone to everyone else - I could be roaring argueing and see her, and my tone will change and become gente and warm. Its a subconscious thing that I wasnt aware of until someone pointed it out to me. And she has a special cry for me, not like her normal miaow, much more high pitched. As far as I know, she has only ever used it when I come home, or when she misses me, when I am away and my mum gives her one of my jumpers, she can smell me off it and cries immediatly.

If I am away, I talk to her on the phone, on loudspeaker. My mum is convinced she knows its me, she cries her special cry and scratches at the phone.

I recieved a 'get well soon' card last week, with a cat on the front, thinking it would be for me - it read 'Nutmeg baby, Hurry up and get better, love granny'. I was in tears reading it, such a sweet thing to do, such a caring and loving thing to do.

Some people think I go overboard - I simply look after her in the way I can best. And that includes giving her love, affection and cuddles. And when people take offence to me calling her my precious angel, I tell them to bugger off - not out of ignorance but because it is none of their business.

Im not trying to say animals should be treated like humans - we are two different species - but its a good thing, a great thing, even a fantastic thing to hear people call their pets by endearing names - it shows they care. And in a country where, lets face it, animals and their needs are little respected, that can only be a good thing.

~Thalia~

lorna100 wrote: »

Ive a five year old pet cat, Nutmeg. She is my baby,babe,mammys girl, sweetheart, sweetpea, and occasionly princess.

She comes before everything in my life, she has been very ill recently, I needed to go to the doctor - short money and coulnt afford both so we went to the vets - she comes before me, always.

My friends ask 'hows the baba' etc. when they see me, not 'hows Nutmeg'. When she comes into my room at night for cuddles, she is greeted with 'hey sweetheart, mammy loves you'.

Even though she doesnt understand, I still tell her how precious she is and how much i love her daily. Why? because a) I love her b)I want to.

When she is upset or sick or distressed, I cradle her and hold her and tell her how important she is to me until she stops crying or her breathing slows down.

I speak to her in a totally different tone to everyone else - I could be roaring argueing and see her, and my tone will change and become gente and warm. Its a subconscious thing that I wasnt aware of until someone pointed it out to me. And she has a special cry for me, not like her normal miaow, much more high pitched. As far as I know, she has only ever used it when I come home, or when she misses me, when I am away and my mum gives her one of my jumpers, she can smell me off it and cries immediatly.

If I am away, I talk to her on the phone, on loudspeaker. My mum is convinced she knows its me, she cries her special cry and scratches at the phone.

I recieved a 'get well soon' card last week, with a cat on the front, thinking it would be for me - it read 'Nutmeg baby, Hurry up and get better, love granny'. I was in tears reading it, such a sweet thing to do, such a caring and loving thing to do.

Some people think I go overboard - I simply look after her in the way I can best. And that includes giving her love, affection and cuddles. And when people take offence to me calling her my precious angel, I tell them to bugger off - not out of ignorance but because it is none of their business.

Im not trying to say animals should be treated like humans - we are two different species - but its a good thing, a great thing, even a fantastic thing to hear people call their pets by endearing names - it shows they care. And in a country where, lets face it, animals and their needs are little respected, that can only be a good thing.

Here Here, good for you I say It's more people like you Ireland needs, not less.

I LOVE the bones of my dog. I prefer her to most people. I talk to her, I like spending time with her. And I'll call her whatever I please be it baby, "my girl" whatever. She doesn't know the difference anyway