Velib-like bicycle rental kiosks under construction in Dublin

walzer

I've used this scheme in Paris quite a bit and in general it's fantastic. However it remains to be seen how useful it is here on such a small scale.

A frequent problem in Paris is that when you arrive at a stand it's either empty or full. I found it particularly annoying when my half-hour was almost up on a bike, and I arrived at a stand which was full. You just have to cycle on and find another one. In Paris there are so many stands, with so many bikes, that it's not such a big a problem; in Dublin it could be different. You should at least take a map of the stands with you, so you can easily find the next one (although in Paris the machines do indicate where the nearest stands are).

Also, in Paris the bikes are available 24/7. It seems here in Dublin it will be only until 12:30am. Typical, they don't trust us after we come out of the pubs. They're probably right:rolleyes:

Bee

The bike scheme that the idiots in DCC imported from France is having major problems in Paris

The idiotic scheme is going to cost tax payers a fortune, for a sample of how bad the Paris scheme is doing check this out

Over here DCC is going to increase anti social behaviour when the usual cycle louts get their hands on the bikes, just wait until the personal injuries claims start flooding into DCC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7881079.stm

"Over half the original fleet of 15,000 specially made bicycles have disappeared, presumed stolen.

They have been used 42 million times since their introduction but vandalism and theft are taking their toll.

The company which runs the scheme, JCDecaux, says it can no longer afford to operate the city-wide network"

walzer

Bee wrote: »

The bike scheme that the idiots in DCC imported from France is having major problems in Paris

The idiotic scheme is going to cost tax payers a fortune, for a sample of how bad the Paris scheme is doing check this out

Over here DCC is going to increase anti social behaviour when the usual cycle louts get their hands on the bikes, just wait until the personal injuries claims start flooding into DCC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7881079.stm

"Over half the original fleet of 15,000 specially made bicycles have disappeared, presumed stolen.

They have been used 42 million times since their introduction but vandalism and theft are taking their toll.

The company which runs the scheme, JCDecaux, says it can no longer afford to operate the city-wide network"

Well you'd hardly expect a British news report to praise a French initiative would you?

From a users point of view it works excellently in Paris, both for tourists and natives. And if a bicycle that is available for use 24/7 has to be replaced after a year then so what? They're well made but not totally bulletproof.

There will always be maintenance and replacement costs. The operators in Paris go around re-distributing the bikes at night, along with pumping tyres, fixing punctures etc.

That news report was from last February; I've been back to Paris recently and the scheme has expanded further, beyond the peripherique. So they must be doing something right.

Even if it costs the taxpayer some money, is that such a big problem? Taxpayers pay for buses and trains too.

Metrobest

Just back from a week in Paris and used Velib quite a bit with a 7 day pass for 5 euros.

Seems that almost 1 in 2 bikes in Paris is damaged (flat trye, broken chain, etc) so for those who say vandalism is a problem only seen in Dublin, I beg to differ.

There is a problem with supply management. Trying to return a bike I found that three stands were full.

When I was trying to find a stand to drop off a bike at the Gare du Lyon train station, I experienced problems. The stand is hidden in a very hard-to-find location.

So it's not a perfect scheme. But it's a damn sight better than no scheme at all. And what I love most about it is that I never needed to take a taxi in Paris, day or night. You experience the city in a whole different way by bike.

Incidentally, because of all the hoo-ha about the advertising panels in Dublin, I paid more attention than normal to the JC Decaux "metropanels" which can be seen all over Paris. I saw them in historic squares, small streets and wide boulevards. The panels were slightly less of an eyesore than Dublin's - the panels on Rue du Rivoli for example were raised on fairly elegant stilts and a French flag hung proudly atop each one. Problem is, lining a street with Irish flags in the same style would cause political tensions.

tomred1

Just seen that they are putting on on the Custom House Quay, we're all the junkies conjurate.Not a good idea imo, they will ruin them surely.

walzer

Tomred I wouldn't agree. I walk past there regularly and sure there are often a few people drinking cans of beer (and maybe taking stronger stuff, although I've never seen it). But I can't see any reason they'd start vandalising bicycles.

Judging by some of the earlier comments, I think we're in danger of creating a problem with these bikes where there is none. Yes some of them will be vandalised, but they can be replaced. Other new stuff gets vandalised in Dublin but it usually settles down after the novelty has gone. The bikes will be a (welcome) addition to our public infrastructure and I think we shouldn't just dismiss them before they arrive, just because they might get vandalised.

lost marbles

i might just be a tad pessmistic here but i cant see the scheme working here .the bikes will end up vandalised and quite a few will end up in the canal or liffey .or even on overhead dart cables .
lets not forget the irish weather . it rains for eight months of the bloody year ,and who in their right mind would want to cycle down the quays in the office attire getting soaked and splashed from the cars and lorries .
ok so bring a change of clothes . who wants a wardrobe strapped to their backs and the hassle of changing every day .
as for the trade off of those advertising signs .some of them are REALLY a danger to the motorist with where they positioned .
its more like a cull of dublin pedestrains thats going to happen .

_Kaiser_

As others have said, I just cant see this scheme working out myself.

Aside from the vandalism and theft issues (both very real problems in our fair city), the roads around the city are just too dangerous to be cycling around, both because drivers don't look before they move, and because cyclists just have no heed for their own safety or the rules of the road - and now they want to let the general public loose on bikes?

Which brings me to my next point.. who exactly is going to use this? Students, kids and tourists maybe, but I can't see many women who are doing their shopping, or people in suits (as lost marbles said above, the weather is another problem), or the elderly using them?

Seems like this was just an easy way to get some dangerously positioned on-street advertising put up, rather than an honest and well thought out alternative to using the car/public transport/walking in the city.

markpb

lost marbles wrote: »

lets not forget the irish weather . it rains for eight months of the bloody year ,and who in their right mind would want to cycle down the quays in the office attire getting soaked and splashed from the cars and lorries . ok so bring a change of clothes . who wants a wardrobe strapped to their backs and the hassle of changing every day .

You're completely missing the point. Look at the map of bike rental locations - they're clustered in a very small area around the city centre. This scheme is not intended to get people to commute to work, they will mostly be used for short journeys and the pricing system will encourage that. If you live in the city centre and work in the suburbs, yes you *could* use these bikes but there's no guarantee any will be available and it would be very expensive.

They are only meant for people moving around the city centre. If it's raining, you'd get wet walking anyway or you could get a bus. If you're carrying heavy shopping, you wouldn't be able to carry them anyway so you'd get a bus.

loyatemu

exactly - they're for short journeys around the city centre - the scheme is very heavily used in Paris and I'm sure it will be here too, I certainly intend to sign up for it.

wrt safety, Dublin CC is not a particularly safe place for cycling but that is partly because there are relatively few cyclists. More cyclists will create more awareness and encourage the council to improve cycling facilities. Having said that, there will inevitably be accidents and injuries and media scare stories as a result, but overall its a positive scheme for the city.

markpb

loyatemu wrote: »

Having said that, there will inevitably be accidents and injuries and media scare stories as a result, but overall its a positive scheme for the city.

Drivers kept crashing in Luas trams when it started operations too. If lots of people use this scheme, drivers will learn to spot cyclists because they'll be more used to seeing them. Trams obviously have the advantage of coming out of top in any collision with cars but the point still stands.

mathie

lost marbles wrote: »

i might just be a tad pessmistic here but i cant see the scheme working here .the bikes will end up vandalised and quite a few will end up in the canal or liffey .or even on overhead dart cables .
lets not forget the irish weather . it rains for eight months of the bloody year ,and who in their right mind would want to cycle down the quays in the office attire getting soaked and splashed from the cars and lorries .
ok so bring a change of clothes . who wants a wardrobe strapped to their backs and the hassle of changing every day .
as for the trade off of those advertising signs .some of them are REALLY a danger to the motorist with where they positioned .
its more like a cull of dublin pedestrains thats going to happen .

"Dublin enjoys a maritime temperate climate characterised by mild winters, cool summers, and a lack of temperature extremes with moderate rainfall. However, contrary to popular belief, Dublin does not experience as high rainfall as the west of Ireland, which receives over twice that of the capital city. Dublin has fewer rainy days, on average, than London. The average maximum January temperature is 8 °C, the average maximum July temperature is 19 °C. The sunniest months, on average, are May and June. The wettest months, on average, is December with 76 mm of rain. The driest month is February, with 50 mm. The total average annual rainfall (and other forms of precipitation) is 732.7 mm, lower than Sydney, New York City and even Dallas."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin#Climate

lost marbles

markpb wrote: »

You're completely missing the point. Look at the map of bike rental locations - they're clustered in a very small area around the city centre. This scheme is not intended to get people to commute to work, they will mostly be used for short journeys and the pricing system will encourage that. If you live in the city centre and work in the suburbs, yes you *could* use these bikes but there's no guarantee any will be available and it would be very expensive.

They are only meant for people moving around the city centre. If it's raining, you'd get wet walking anyway or you could get a bus. If you're carrying heavy shopping, you wouldn't be able to carry them anyway so you'd get a bus.

the area i was coming from is people using the system to get across the city to their workplace .i.e train to huston [if a bike stand was erected there ] and a bike down to the ifsc . or visa versa .from ifsc to say rathmines . other than this commute across the city i think the rest are shoppers and tourist .i cant see the stag party from england making much use of them . on the weather front i think we have more rainy days than sunny ones in dublin .thats just my opinion ,but it seems contary to what another poster has said are the facts on the eastern seaboard climate .

markpb

lost marbles wrote: »

on the weather front i think we have more rainy days than sunny ones in dublin .thats just my opinion

This came up before but I can't find the thread. It's to do with perception. If it rains at all, people remember the day as being rainy even if they're not affected. It could rain all day long but as long as it's not raining when you're cycling, it doesn't matter.

Winters

I acknowledge that it is the summer and we have had some fantastic weather but this morning was the first morning that I got wet cycling to work in the last month.

Wasnt pleasant but one morning out of 15 or so since I started cycling to work isnt bad. Looks like it'll be dry going home.

Quint

They had these in Vienna and I thought they were great. One of the cool things you see abroad that you wonder why Dublin has never done it. Well they have, fair play and feck the doubters!
The ones in Vienna had solid tyres, less maintenance but less comfort. It also meant you wouldn't cycle far, they were very uncomfortable! Great for getting around the short distances. Vienna was a much easier city to cycle around than dublin though. You didn't have to cycle near as much through traffic. Haven't seen the map yet, but I hope there's plenty of kiosks in the Phoenix park

daymobrew

markpb wrote: »

This came up before but I can't find the thread. It's to do with perception. If it rains at all, people remember the day as being rainy even if they're not affected. It could rain all day long but as long as it's not raining when you're cycling, it doesn't matter.

Well put! This is the logic I keep putting to people who complain about the rain. Many days it's rained for hours outside my commute!

Quint wrote: »

Haven't seen the map yet, but I hope there's plenty of kiosks in the Phoenix park

None initially. There is a bicycle rental place at the Parkgate Street end of Phoenix Park. It is not connected to this scheme.

Quint

daymobrew wrote: »

There is a bicycle rental place at the Parkgate Street end of Phoenix Park. It is not connected to this scheme.

Pity, Phoenix Park is a fantastic amenity that would be served really well with this scheme. Might be a bit far out

walzer

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Which brings me to my next point.. who exactly is going to use this? Students, kids and tourists maybe, but I can't see many women who are doing their shopping, or people in suits (as lost marbles said above, the weather is another problem), or the elderly using them?

The bikes to be used (same as in Paris) are very user-friendly compared to your average bike. They're unisex, thus easy to use for those wearing skirts. They have a basket in front, so you can carry shopping, handbags or whatever quite safely and easily. They have dynamo lights that are on all the time, which automatically makes these bikes safer than about 50% of the other bikes in Dublin. They have a good chain cover, so wearing a suit is not a problem. And unlike Vienna they have normal air tyres, so they're actually very comfortable to cycle (not counting on Dublin's potholes!).

In Paris the bikes are used by tourists, commuters, people socialising in the evening, just about anybody who wants to get from A to B quickly and easily. I don't see why it can't be the same in Dublin. But I'm afraid the biggest problem might be that there won't be enough of them, and the stands will be either empty or full.

walzer

lost marbles wrote: »

lets not forget the irish weather . it rains for eight months of the bloody year ,and who in their right mind would want to cycle down the quays in the office attire getting soaked and splashed from the cars and lorries .

As regards the weather, the great thing about the bikes is you can just leave them back, and walk, take the bus or whatever.

I don't see people depending on these bikes as a way to get to work (or even for part of the journey). There will be too many times there just isn't a bike available.

Instead, it will be a more spontaneous decision, an alternative to a walk or waiting on a bus.

dereko1969

walzer wrote: »

The bikes to be used (same as in Paris) are very user-friendly compared to your average bike. They're unisex, thus easy to use for those wearing skirts. They have a basket in front, so you can carry shopping, handbags or whatever quite safely and easily. They have dynamo lights that are on all the time, which automatically makes these bikes safer than about 50% of the other bikes in Dublin. They have a good chain cover, so wearing a suit is not a problem. And unlike Vienna they have normal air tyres, so they're actually very comfortable to cycle (not counting on Dublin's potholes!).

In Paris the bikes are used by tourists, commuters, people socialising in the evening, just about anybody who wants to get from A to B quickly and easily. I don't see why it can't be the same in Dublin. But I'm afraid the biggest problem might be that there won't be enough of them, and the stands will be either empty or full.

yeah i found them very comfortable in paris, i hadn't cycled in years and was a bit nervous but very easy to use, the basket in particular would prove very useful and they have 3 gears too.

JuliusCaesar

Has the DCC cycling page gone live yet? I can't find it.

Want to give out stink about the lack of bike parking spaces especially the vanishing of the O'Connell St ones. Replaced by less than half the number. None at the north end of the street at all.

Gumbo

Quint wrote: »

They had these in Vienna and I thought they were great. One of the cool things you see abroad that you wonder why Dublin has never done it. Well they have, fair play and feck the doubters!
The ones in Vienna had solid tyres, less maintenance but less comfort. It also meant you wouldn't cycle far, they were very uncomfortable! Great for getting around the short distances. Vienna was a much easier city to cycle around than dublin though. You didn't have to cycle near as much through traffic. Haven't seen the map yet, but I hope there's plenty of kiosks in the Phoenix park

no, theres none in the pheonix park. the bikes are designed for short trips in and around the city centre. the plan was that if people wanted to cycle around the park as such, they would rent from the established rental company already there.

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Has the DCC cycling page gone live yet? I can't find it.

Want to give out stink about the lack of bike parking spaces especially the vanishing of the O'Connell St ones. Replaced by less than half the number. None at the north end of the street at all.

due to go like some time in july iirc
www.dublinbikes.ie when it does go live.

Carawaystick

kceire wrote: »

no, theres none in the pheonix park. the bikes are designed for short trips in and around the city centre. the plan was that if people wanted to cycle around the park as such, they would rent from the established rental company already there.

I presume it would e malicious to think the fact that the advertising company can't advertise in the Phoenix Park has any bearing on the fact there are no bike hire locations in the Phoenix???

I saw an ad by the corpo today in Dublin exhorting the residents to cycle as it was Free. Until the corpo endorsed scheme starts when it'll cost you......

lostexpectation

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/wholestory.aspx-qqqt=THE+INSIDE+TRACK-qqqs=mediaandmarketing-qqqsectionid=3-qqqc=4.1.0.0-qqqn=20-qqqx=1.asp

Bike scheme seeks sponsor
Sunday, July 12, 2009
A sponsor is being sought for the Dublin Bikes scheme, which is reportedly set for launch on September 13.

Precision Media has released details of a €750,000-ayear offering for a presence on the mudguards and handlebars of the 450 rental bicycles involved in the scheme. Sponsors must come on board for at least two years.

The scheme has been set up following a deal between Dublin City Council and contractor JC Decaux. Under the deal, JC Decaux will provide and maintain the bikes in exchange for use of outdoor advertising space.

they ain't got sponsors yet??

Run_to_da_hills

white apples wrote: »

Looking at the map of locations here it seems to me like they're all concentrated around a very small area....like you'd hardly be bothered cycling that distance. They should put some out further in Dublin 8, 7, 3 & 4 and I'd say way more people would use them.

Go out that far with them and you may never see them return. These bikes are meant for short hops in the city ctr and not commuting miles out of the city

I have a complaint about the location of these meters, DCC have removed the only official motorcycle parking areas on Princes St by the GPO and replaced them with these. The only other area close by is the median of O Connell St, Motorcyclists have had parking tickets for parking here. If I get a parking ticket here in future I will take it to court.

markpb

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I have a complaint about the location of these meters, DCC have removed the only official motorcycle parking areas on Princes St by the GPO and replaced them with these. The only other area close by is the median of O Connell St, Motorcyclists have had parking tickets for parking here. If I get a parking ticket here in future I will take it to court.

I noticed that last night - poor form for DCC. Have you contacted them to ask them where the replacement motorbike parking will be? There's no point waiting till you receive a ticket - they won't care then.

Run_to_da_hills

markpb wrote: »

I noticed that last night - poor form for DCC. Have you contacted them to ask them where the replacement motorbike parking will be? There's no point waiting till you receive a ticket - they won't care then.

I have already mentioned it on Bike Ireland and will be bring it to the attention of MAG Ireland. (A group that represents motorcyclists rights etc http://magireland.org/ ) The response on Bike Ireland is that no one has been prosecuted recently despite the warning signs.

Many bikers are reluctant to park bikes on Princes street prior to this alteration because of the exposure to theft. its easier to load a bike into the back of a van down this street than the center of O Connelly St. Also cyclists lock their bicycles in the same area and bikers don't want their machines scratched.

MadsL

Bike scheme seeks sponsor
Sunday, July 12, 2009
A sponsor is being sought for the Dublin Bikes scheme, which is reportedly set for launch on September 13.

Precision Media has released details of a €750,000-ayear offering for a presence on the mudguards and handlebars of the 450 rental bicycles involved in the scheme. Sponsors must come on board for at least two years.

The scheme has been set up following a deal between Dublin City Council and contractor JC Decaux. Under the deal, JC Decaux will provide and maintain the bikes in exchange for use of outdoor advertising space.

So much for all that blarney about not wanting advertising on the bikes themselves, and how they would be Dublin branded. This is how the scheme should have been funded in the first place. :rolleyes:

ODS

Councillors are now saying they were mislead. Numerous articles have appeared putting the potential revenue at almost €200 million - none of which goes to the city. This has never been denied by JC Decaux.

The current Village Magazine is carrying a good article or letter that I saw in it. Most of the billboards ended up on the northside, but almost 2/3 of the bikes end up on the southside :mad:

When will Minister "for" the Environment, Mr. John Gormley investigate?


Council 'sold a pig in a poke' in hoarding deal with free cycle scheme


By Geraldine Gittens

Tuesday June 30 2009

Councillors claim they were duped when they voted to give the go-ahead to a controversial advertising bike deal.

As concerns about the viability of the scheme mount, Dublin councillors insisted they were not given all the facts before they voted on 16 bike stations on the northside and 24 on the southside.

The 450 bicycles will be provided in a deal between the city council and French advertising giant JC Decaux. The cost for the scheme works out at a staggering €1,000 a bike. Now councillors are furious they were not told that advertising signs which were to be removed from buildings as part of the deal, could be legally reinstated by the building owners.

Cllr Mary Freehill (Labour) said: "I'm in favour of bikes, but what I'm talking about is when we're presented with information that is not so, nobody told us they were not going to be removed. I want to know why we were not told that.

"We were quite frankly sold a pig in a poke. It's very hard for us to believe what we're being told when we get such incomplete information." Cllr Freehill says two hoardings in particular can be seen on a corner of Grove Avenue, Blackrock, and on the west side of Harrold's Cross Road.

Manager Michael Stubbs said 50 were removed by JC Decaux and another 50 would be removed later. In the context of the new city development plan the situation can be reviewed.

Forward

Cllr Deirdre Heney (FF) echoed Cllr Freehill's remarks and added: "I think it's very disappointing that such a positive scheme has this very unfortunate and real issue. One of the benefits was that we would be getting rid of hoardings.

"It would be very worthwhile if the manager would come forward with a hands-up approach." Lord Mayor Emer Costello (Labour) said she understood that removing the hoardings was one of the scheme's major selling points and was "concerned to hear that's not the case".

Cllr Mannix Flynn (Ind) said: "I don't understand the council allowing JC Decaux to commandeer footpaths. I fail to see the benefit of these for the city."

- Geraldine Gittens
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/council-sold-a-pig-in-a-poke-in-hoarding-deal-with-free-cycle-scheme-1797917.html