Don't try to change me, woman!

nomorebadtown

On foot of the 'shopping for your man' thread...

It's a stereotype I know but women trying to improve, revamp and turn their men into a "better" specimen than he could ever have become without her help is a very common theme. And it didn't come from nowhere.

Now, this being TLL, everyone tends to be very laisse faire and strives to be anything but a female stereotype but i'm was wondering if there are any examples of you ladies, at one time or another, trying to augment and refine your guy? Fashion, hair, manners, friends, activities, work, intoxicants? Is this a thing which women do, purely on a subconscious level? Is it done out of 'love' or a subliminal need to control life and those around you? Are men a project, something you endeavour to mould and fix until you can show off the new and improved finished article with pride?

Your answers on a postcard...

No, he's perfect

I reserve the right to poke unbounded fun at him when he's in sulks though :pac: I think that's the closest I get.
I'm with him for who he is now, not some imaginary version in my head that I'm desperately settling for him instead !!

GirlInterrupted

nomorebadtown wrote: »

On foot of the 'shopping for your man' thread...

It's a stereotype I know but women trying to improve, revamp and turn their men into a "better" specimen than he could ever have become without her help is a very common theme. And it didn't come from nowhere.

Now, this being TLL, everyone tends to be very laisse faire and strives to be anything but a female stereotype but i'm was wondering if there are any examples of you ladies, at one time or another, trying to augment and refine your guy? Fashion, hair, manners, friends, activities, work, intoxicants? Is this a thing which women do, purely on a subconscious level? Is it done out of 'love' or a subliminal need to control life and those around you? Are men a project, something you endeavour to mould and fix until you can show off the new and improved finished article with pride?

Your answers on a postcard...

If someone needs a total overhaul to be fit for polite company, what would have attracted me in the first place?

Seriously, if you like them enough to be with them, then surely the last thing you should do is go about changing everything they are?

nomorebadtown

GirlInterrupted wrote: »

Seriously, if you like them enough to be with them, then surely the last thing you should do is go about changing everything they are?

Hey I agree, it's not me coming up with this out of the blue here! This is a bog-standard female behavioural stereotype

GirlInterrupted

nomorebadtown wrote: »

Hey I agree, it's not me coming up with this out of the blue here! This is a bog-standard female behavioural stereotype

Oh, I know, but I don't get it.

I've seen it with friends of mine and new boyfriends, and I'd often wonder what they hope to achieve if they change the 'model' they first liked, into a new, improved (read 'different') one.

stovelid

Responding with your own wish-list of preferred physical and behavioral upgrades usually ends the requests.

Rhyme

bluewolf wrote: »

...some imaginary version in my head...

Sorry, i read that as 'some imagnary venison in my head'.



...Carry on >_>

Stheno

GirlInterrupted wrote: »

If someone needs a total overhaul to be fit for polite company, what would have attracted me in the first place?

Seriously, if you like them enough to be with them, then surely the last thing you should do is go about changing everything they are?

+1 why would you bother?

nomorebadtown wrote: »

Hey I agree, it's not me coming up with this out of the blue here! This is a bog-standard female behavioural stereotype

That's a bit of a generalisation, not all women want to redesign their men's looks/behaviour/wardrobe etc.

It kinda smacks of control in one way.

I'd one ex who used be very concerned with my looks, I had to wear makeup and certain outfits when seeing his family, and even my work clothes came under scrutiny on a daily basis.

Those things didn't define me, but he felt he'd the right/need to comment, especially when it was negative.

Hence why he is an ex, nothing wrong imo in positively commenting on a partners appearance or giving honest constructive feedback on how they look, but telling someone they look like a skeleton in something is a bit futile and negative.

Raze_them_all

The thing that really bugs me is if the woman found the guy attractive enough to go out in the first place why would you change that??

shinny

Let me put it this way; if he was the type of man to be "changed" then I'd never have been with him in the first place.

If you are unfortunate to meet a girl or guy who wants to change you, get out or lay down the law there and then.

The Sweeper

Clothes. I have long pushed my husband to buy better quality clothing - not a certain style or anything, but quality. When I met him, he used to buy polycotton shirts (tie included) for 14.99.

Seven years later, and I've created a monster with a taste for tailored designer suits with heavy cotton shirts and silk ties - but at least he's happy to pay someone else to iron them!

Nevyn

Guys do that same as well but in different ways.

Raze_them_all

I've never went out and bought something for my other half, I've brought them shopping where they chose and I'd pay but never where I'd pick something out

Crumble Froo

clothes, looks, whatever, no, i'd never try change.

with my partner though, one thing i do on a regular basis try to change are some of his lifestyle habits. like going out a little now and then, getting in touch with his mates etc. i never push/force him, but i will keep mentioning it for a while, cos i know he enjoys being out, it's just the motivation to get there that takes a while.

other than that though, we both have lifestyle (food, drink etc) issues that we don't necessarily agree with in the other, have mentioned our feelings on it, but are happy to let the other person keep doing it if that's what they want.

spinandscribble

Thaedydal wrote: »

Guys do that same as well but in different ways.

True.

tbh I think suggesting styles of clothes you think they might like/suit them isn't changing them as a person.
For example if a bf persuades a girlfriend to wear more heels as he likes it or to try a different style of music or don't cut your hair. These are all things fellas have suggested to me in the past. Do I think they're "changing" me? No. clothes, appearance, taste are all about preference but very changeable. These things should not define you as without wealth and access they would not be apart of you. Can anyone honestly say they've never made such a suggestion to an OH?
Thats just the exterior, now lets talk about the interior.

It's my belief that through life, through experiences we change who we are (duh). Part of that journey is relationships. I believe you should strive to improve yourself always and try new things. Relationships are valuable for that because ideally it'll be shared with someone willing to bring out the best in you and likewise. From my past experiences i've learnt to be more patient, accepting of other peoples morals/beliefs and upbeat about life. I've learnt new hobbies and become interested in topics i might never have touched upon before if it had not been for these past relationships.

I think very few people start relationships with revamping straight away in mind, nor should they as fundamentally they should not view their new partner as "flawed". However along the way, there are things to be learnt and compromises to be made to enable a relationship to continue, thus change.

I'm sort of veering off topic but I think what can sometimes appear as someone changing a partner can be misconstrued, when the intentions are far more innocent. I'm just trying to be realistic here. Everyone changes in life and partners can play a big part in that.

Now if a partner was really pushing for a change in their significant other that their SO perceived to be vital to who they are as an individual at that time then thats entirely different. i don't think its fair to suggest women are more likely to act in that way. I've had bfs who wished to change vital parts of my person that would make me feel completely unlike myself and made these desires known from the get go. they were dumped sharpish too since they could not accept i was unprepared to change morals/ethics for them.

Basically if someone would like you to try something that doesn't make you feel unsafe, uncomfortable, upset or vulnerable, then why the hell not try it? Some of the most fun i've had has been from those situations.


oh and btw, i've never attempted to change a man incase anyone thought i was being sympathetic to these "fixer upper intent bf's/gf's" out there. i've gone out with guys who's fashion sense (or lack thereof imo lol) would draw instant attention on the street but come birthday or xmas, i'd make sure to purchase things they'd like. at the end of the day making your bf or gf happy is what matters, not how stylish you think they are.

lol hope i've explained myself properly!

Ginny

I was attracted to him as he is, and I still am, and can't see that changing anytime soon...;)

MadgeBadge

My ex developed a mullet.


I'm making no excuses, something had to be done.

Clare Bear

I asked him to give up smoking for me, it's a big thing but it's a thing I told him from day one I wouldn't go along with. Apart from that I wouldn't change anything about him. I'd be changing the person I fell in love with if I did that.

I would never try and dress a bf, I even have difficulty giving my opinion if I don't like something, because if he likes it then that's what matters. So I'm not in the business of changing someone because it suits me.

BUT I have nudged my bf in particular directions in lifestyle things. Some might call that changing him, others supporting him. I heard him tell me he would like to do or be X,Y and Z and then do nothing about it. I told him his various excuses were bollocks and that if he wanted these things he should just do them or stop talking about it. I suppose I backed him into a corner by making him confront what his life was and what he wanted it to be.

Would I have pushed him in directions I didn't approve of? Probably not, but then I wouldn't be in a relationship with someone whose values were that different to mine, would I?

To this day I'm amazed no-one else, not his friends or family, said the same to him. Either he was never that honest with them about his dreams or perhaps they didn't have any belief in him or they just didn't care. Some of them felt threatened when he did make changes.

He's still the same person I fell for, but a much happier and healthier version. He would probably have made the changes on his own eventually but I think the process would have been alot slower. I'm sure some people would judge me as a woman who changed a man, but there are subtleties to every situation.

SeekUp

spinandscribble wrote: »

tbh I think suggesting styles of clothes you think they might like/suit them isn't changing them as a person.

Agreed . . .

Are men a project? No! No. And good luck to those who think otherwise. Yes, people change, and in many ways that's a good thing -- but you shouldn't get into a relationship (or stay in one, for that matter) with the goal of changing someone. Seems like a lot of work.

I can't get my OH to stop picking his nose, for heaven's sake. But I still love 'im.

Acacia

Nope, I don't try to change my partner. At least I hope not. And I have to say that I've noticed that it's girls who are far more likely to start seeing their friends less / doing their own things, when they get a boyfriend. Like, all of a sudden they seem to know all about rugby or some band they had previously never heard of, and when you ask them about it, the answer is usually "Oh, my bf really likes that band/ loves rugby, etc, etc" Pretty soon they're spending more time going to rugby matches with their fella than doing their own thing.

Not saying it's the guy's fault at all, it's just something I've observed in girls more so than guys.

spinandscribble

SeekUp wrote: »

Are men a project? No! No. And good luck to those who think otherwise. Yes, people change, and in many ways that's a good thing -- but you shouldn't get into a relationship (or stay in one, for that matter) with the goal of changing someone. Seems like a lot of work.

I can't get my OH to stop picking his nose, for heaven's sake. But I still love 'im.

where did i ever say they were a project? :P i never said people go into relationships with the goal of changing someone, it happens whether you want it to or not, its natural, as far as i'm concerned. its not as if i sit around wondering what will i change or they'll change about me. i think you missed the point of my post.

if my fella got on his high horse because i suggested a green shirt instead of the blue, and ranting about me "changing him" it would make me think not so much of him if he can't handle a simple suggestion never mind thinking clothes define who he is, urgh, what a turn off right there.

SeekUp

spinandscribble wrote: »

where did i ever say they were a project? :P i never said people go into relationships with the goal of changing someone, it happens whether you want it to or not, its natural, as far as i'm concerned. its not as if i sit around wondering what will i change or they'll change about me. i think you missed the point of my post.

No, I agreed with your post! I just didn't draw the connection between quoting you and what I said.

thedizzler

I have to agree ladies, the odd suggestion is hardly me trying to control his life!
I worked in menswear for a few years, and quite the fancy smancy too, so I've a fair idea when a guy isn't wearing the best size for him. Men frequently buy the wrong chest size to fit the shoulders, or buy a jacket and slack set that leaves the trousers 3 inches too long. Even for the small stuff- mine was into black shirts and grey suits in the office. I picked him up a few good quality creamy ones, that fit the suit better and he looks great! Does this make me a horrible person?

Madame Razz

I know he'd like me to wear shorter skirts:rolleyes:

I know that even if I tried to change his style he wouldn't listen, as he is as stubborn as a mule so I'd never even try, I don't think I want anything he wears changed anyway;)

He could do with realising when something is past it's best though.

Holes in teeshirt=bin tbh

nomorebadtown

Madame Razz wrote: »

Holes in teeshirt=bin tbh

Ah now come on! There are always plenty of good years left in a tshirt, unless its ripped to shreds and being used as a grease rag/duster.

Madame Razz

nomorebadtown wrote: »

Ah now come on! There are always plenty of good years left in a tshirt, unless its ripped to shreds and being used as a grease rag/duster.

Ok then, allow me to rephrase:

Holes in teeshirt=not to be worn in public!!!

Salome

I have no desire to change my OH - I fell for him the way he is but I did have an issue with an item of clothing he wore. It just made him look years older than he is - with some gentle comments "i.e. I like that other one you have, it suits you better", he came around to my way of thinking!

GirlInterrupted

I'm suprised so many people are talking about clothes here, because changing a guys clothes doesn't change him, it just changes his clothes.

I took the OP to mean aspects of behaviour or personality, which are basically pointless to even attempt. No one will change significantly or change their behaviour if they don't want to.

But, having said that, everybody changes in a relationship if they spend enough time together. Its called accommodation, and compromise, and most relationships require some degree of either or both.

Censorsh!t

I have a friend who controls her boyfriend.
She wants to have a perffext hollywood cinderella story relationship, and if she doesnt get it, she'll let him know.
She'll argue about him not buying her enough presents, about not spending enough time with her (even though they are constantly together). It's come to a stage where he never gets to see his friends by himself. She'll give out if he talks to another girl. If he does one thing wrong, it's correction time.

I myself, I'd never want to make my boyfriend change who he is, to suit me. If I did want a change, I wouldnt say it, because I know I'd be pissed if he tried to change me.

allabouteve

Censorsh!t wrote: »

I have a friend who controls her boyfriend.
She wants to have a perffext hollywood cinderella story relationship, and if she doesnt get it, she'll let him know.
She'll argue about him not buying her enough presents, about not spending enough time with her (even though they are constantly together). It's come to a stage where he never gets to see his friends by himself. She'll give out if he talks to another girl. If he does one thing wrong, it's correction time.

I myself, I'd never want to make my boyfriend change who he is, to suit me. If I did want a change, I wouldnt say it, because I know I'd be pissed if he tried to change me.

Your friend sounds like a high-maintenance nightmare, and she's lucky she's persuaded anyone to tolerate the childish behaviour and expectations. Any sensible bloke would run a mile from that crap.

Censorsh!t

allabouteve wrote: »

Your friend sounds like a high-maintenance nightmare, and she's lucky she's persuaded anyone to tolerate the childish behaviour and expectations. Any sensible bloke would run a mile from that crap.

I know! I honestly don't know how he sticks it sometimes! I mean, for the most part she's very fun, but she can be so horribly in demand for perfection that I wouldn't know if it's worth it. And the worst thing is, he's such a lovely guy and really does try his best.:(

GirlInterrupted

Censorsh!t wrote: »

I know! I honestly don't know how he sticks it sometimes! I mean, for the most part she's very fun, but she can be so horribly in demand for perfection that I wouldn't know if it's worth it. And the worst thing is, he's such a lovely guy and really does try his best.:(

The problem with wanting perfection is that it doesn't exist, and you lose out so much in having unreasonably high expectations, which is something I've learned the hard way, lately.

If he's that lovely a guy, he's going to find someone who thinks he is without 'intervention' and go for an easier life. I know I would!