Smith Machine - all that bad?

connundrum

Hey,

I've just started using the Smith Machine in my gym for squats. Previously I was using free weights by my side.

In the gym the Smith Machine is the only really option, as there is a 7' bar, but no rack to stick it on.

Should I use the Smith at all or consider it to be the best of limited options?

I'm tied to this gym for the next year so I'll not be going anywhere else soon.

kevpants

For squats yeah it is that bad. You have other options though. I mean you can do barbell lunges, front squats of whatever weight you can bring to your chest, you can deadlift. If you can't do regular squats I'd advise doing something else rather than doing them in the Smith Machine.

chrism2007

as said already its 99% useless

try this even

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24PeqytTtq4

lumberjackgener

From what I've read and heard its really not that good. It will work the main muscles but not the supporting muscles/tendons/ligaments whatever.
Those are the things that you do not want to end up weaker than the main muscles. Like attaching a rocket to a fiesta...

Maybe you could do front squats with the bar, clean it up into position.

BossArky

Non answering your question directly but....

You could use the oly bar to learn to power or hang clean the weight up into a proper front squat position. Now, front squat. It is easy enough to dump the weight if too heavy. Start off light and build up gradually.

I don't front squat in a rack 'cos the bar hits the supports before I can get to the bottom.

cowzerp

If there is a dip rack, use it for the bar.

smith squats is basically a leg press with potential injury risks if done wrong which most people do..

Killme00

BossArky wrote: »

You could use the oly bar to learn to power or hang clean the weight up into a proper front squat position. Now, front squat. It is easy enough to dump the weight if too heavy. Start off light and build up gradually.

and now add in a Military or push press here at the end and you have a great hybrid lift which will have you seeing spots after a set of 6. I use it once in a while to completely burn out when i havent done enough in a session.

crotalus667

Whilst Dorian preferred the leg press when he did do squats he opted for the smith machine , it all depends on what your goals are

brianthebard

I don't think Yates is a great example of what people should be doing in the gym.

Malteaser!

Didn't Dorian's career end prematurely due to the catastropic injuries he suffered from his training routine?? Hardly a perfect example of a great traininig methodology?? I know it was more upper stuff he injured, but the point stands.

brianthebard

Yeah I was going to mention that his bicep tear(s) have often been attributed to the way he adapted rows, (now referred to as a Yates row), but I didn't have a good link.

Hanley

He popped his tri doing pulldowns too IIRC.

If you've nothing else, a smith machine would have to do. No point in losing a year of leg training. BUT I would approach it so that I wasn't going too heavy, do your other leg work first, Leg Press (if available), lunges and then front squat on the smith.

I would ONLY front squat on the smith because it's the squat where I find the bar has the straightest path. Obviously you need to find the position where you cansit down between your legs and not have your feels want to lift up in the bottom position. It's absolutely far from ideal, but if it's what you got, it's what you got.

cardio,shoot me

maybe try using the smith machine to do a hack squat

Chucky the tree

I dont have a squat rack either and I just clean and jerk + Front squat it, I dont really like squats though so much prefer deadlifts.

brianthebard

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

maybe try using the smith machine to do a hack squat

Good idea, or even just hack and zercher squats and forget about the smith.

cardio,shoot me

true brian, but ive heard some people find the hack squat hard to get and i cant see how ud get into the zercher squat position without a rack. but if u put the weight on ur shoulders and hack squat its easy enough imo

brianthebard

Usually people need to put plates under their heels to do hack squats I think. Not sure what you mean about putting it on your shoulders, you mean on the ground? As for zerchers, I guess you could set them up on a bench, or on the ground and do a zercher deadlift/squat, could be hard though.

cardio,shoot me

when i say on your shoulders i was referring to doing it in the smith machine

brianthebard

it wouldn't be a hack squat then though.

crotalus667

Malteaser! wrote: »

Didn't Dorian's career end prematurely due to the catastropic injuries he suffered from his training routine??

I think it was ,ore to do with his high intensity techniques , I have been told (my a guy that works doing autopsies) that the amount of injuries was possibly due to his bodies inability to strengthen the cognitive tissues at the same rate the muscles where growing , the point being his legs/lower joints where fine (more than fine) , there are a lot of pro bodybuilders that use the smith machine because they can isolate parts of the legs better

Malteaser! wrote: »

I know it was more upper stuff he injured, but the point stands.

Hmmm no sorry the point does not stand

brianthebard

Just cause you're a fan of the guy doesn't mean other people's opinions are invalid.

crotalus667

brianthebard wrote: »

Just cause you're a fan of the guy doesn't mean other people's opinions are invalid.

1 i never said i was a fan of the guy and 2 i never said other people's opinions are not valid, learn to read

kevpants

A pro bodybuilder who takes so many chemicals that allow his muscles to grow and recover 5 times faster than you or I can therefore afford to isolate every single muscle individually and train it absolute failure. He has so many hormones flowing that he has recovered by the next morning whereas you and I would be flattened after 2 weeks of this type of training, burned out and getting weaker by the session. He achieves overall mass by meticulously destroying every muscle one at a time, we simply can't train that way.

The method by which a bodybuilder grows his muscles and you and I grow them are completely different. They are quite literally different animals, the blood that flows through their veins is completely different to Mr Connundrum of Boards.ie so I'm afraid your point stands about as well as Stephen Hawking, on a tightrope, in a hurricane, after 8 pints.

cardio,shoot me

brianthebard wrote: »

it wouldn't be a hack squat then though.

true but its the same type of movement

crotalus667

kevpants wrote: »

A pro bodybuilder who takes so many chemicals that allow his muscles to grow and recover 5 times faster than you or I can therefore afford to isolate every single muscle individually

I never said anyone was isolating every mussels individually (that is imposable to do with any sort of squat)

kevpants wrote: »

He has so many hormones flowing that he has recovered by the next morning

Nope steroids are good but they are not that good , recovery is still measured in multiple days ,

kevpants wrote: »

whereas you and I would be flattened after 2 weeks of this type of training, burned out and getting weaker by the session.

Never at any point did I suggest that any body trained with the intensity or the frequency of a pro

kevpants wrote: »

The method by which a bodybuilder grows his muscles and you and I grow them are completely different. ..

From a physiological point of view they are the exactly the same , steroid users just have a greater ability to recover

kevpants wrote: »

I'm afraid your point stands about as well as Stephen Hawking, on a tightrope, in a hurricane, after 8 pints.

learn to read my post's properly and then maybe you will be qualified to make that statement (you could also do with an anatomy lesson)

cardio,shoot me

i was gonna reply but he pretty much did all i need to do.....

Edit: since when are we talking about shellfish who bodybuild? "Mussels"
couldnt resist!

brianthebard

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

true but its the same type of movement

Sorry but I'm still confused, a hack squat is only a hack squat if the weight is on the ground (or possibly dumbbells) held below and behind the body, what you're talking about sounds like a smith machine squat, if the weight is on the back?

kevpants

crotalus667 wrote: »

I never said anyone was isolating every mussels individually (that is imposable to do with any sort of squat)

So why did he Smith Squat? Wouldn't have been to isolate the quads no?

crotalus667 wrote: »

Nope steroids are good but they are not that good , recovery is still measured in multiple days

Mr Nautural Universe


Mr Universe


Steroids make a huge difference, don't kid yourself.

crotalus667 wrote: »

From a physiological point of view they are the exactly the same , steroid users just have a greater ability to recover

Recovery is 100% the point of any training. Recovery is when you get stronger or bigger depending on the goal. Accelerate the recovery = accelerate the growth. So they are exactly the same apart from one massive difference. Were you pointing out that we both have arms and legs?

crotalus667 wrote: »

learn to read my post's properly and then maybe you will be qualified to make that statement (you could also do with an anatomy lesson)

Squats are for legs right? Which bit's that again?

Hanley

crotalus667 wrote: »

I think it was ,ore to do with his high intensity techniques , I have been told (my a guy that works doing autopsies) that the amount of injuries was possibly due to his bodies inability to strengthen the cognitive tissues at the same rate the muscles where growing , the point being his legs/lower joints where fine (more than fine) , there are a lot of pro bodybuilders that use the smith machine because they can isolate parts of the legs better

Lol. It's a lot more than HIT which caused the tears. The GH, IGF-1, anabolics and whatever else he was taking would be a much bigger factor (same theory, muscles grow too fast for the connective tissue).

Hmmm no sorry the point does not stand

Bad training and poor exercise selection begets injuries. It's a valid point.

Hanley

crotalus667 wrote: »

I never said anyone was isolating every mussels individually (that is imposable to do with any sort of squat)


learn to read my post's properly and then maybe you will be qualified to make that statement (you could also do with an anatomy lesson)

Fast becoming my favourite picture;

crotalus667

kevpants wrote: »

So why did he Smith Squat? Wouldn't have been to isolate the quads no?

Squats of any sort would not isolate any muscle (or group of you seem to be ignorant to the fact that the quads are four muscle’s not one)

kevpants wrote: »

Steroids make a huge difference, don't kid yourself.

please point out where i said they did not make a huge difference ???

kevpants wrote: »

Recovery is 100% the point of any training. Recovery is when you get stronger or bigger depending on the goal. Accelerate the recovery = accelerate the growth. So they are exactly the same apart from one massive difference. Were you pointing out that we both have arms and legs?

You clearly have not under stood what I have poster , (and/or it would also appear you have not understood what you yourself have posted) read it again and if you still cant understand , well tough luck because I am not going to draw it in crayon just for you , I am not your special ed teacher