Should ALL Drugs Be Legal and Free?

Pat Sheen

Sex is legal and free...unless you pay for it or do it wrong and is one of the most powerful human drives there is. Like drugs, it's both pleasurable and potentially dangerous and nearly everyone does it, like drugs. Why shouldn't drugs have the same status?

If your feeling a rising sense of rage and/or disgust at this statement, my question to you is this.... Assuming that rising sense of rage and/or disgust is because you don't use controlled drugs and believe no-one else should either then, do you smoke tobacco products, drink alcohol, tea, coffee, lucozade, energy drinks or regularly use any one of hundreds of abusable pharmaceutical concotions? ..YES?...well then you are a drug user too.

So take a deep breath and then, think!

It's not like prohibition has made controlled drugs any less available, so by definition they're even less controlled now than they've ever been DESPITE prohibition. Therefore drugs control is a logical fallacy.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.~Albert Einstein

Do we need to think differently?

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.~Albert Einstein

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

I think most drugs should be illegal, most drugs are harmfull to some degree, even in moderation.

The lighter drugs suchs as mdna (spelling?) and canibas should be legalised to an extent. Like in holland. Magic mushrooms are legal there too I think?

CaptainSkidmark

yeah and a year later we are all in rehab

AlmightyCushion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPP_yIerTX0

mardybumbum

Whos going to give drugs for free????

bigeasyeah

Yay lets legalise everything-guns,prostitution,rape and maybe a spot of vigilante justice.If I wanted to live in a place like that I d move to Sligo old boy.
The Dutch did similar to what you are proposing.Their government and a sizeable number of their citizenry regret it.
Also why drag poor Einstein into it?

Pat Sheen

The first go is always free

hussey

It's times like these we need a smiley for "Facepalm"

Steve.Pseudonym

Sometimes I really wish I were a mod so I could lock retarded threads like these.

mayordenis

Some people, and I'm not going to name and names here, need to be protected from themselves. The way of protection is by making it illegal to do the stupid things they believe makes them cool.

We don't need to criminalise sex because natural selection general does a fine job.

irisheddie85

legal drugs are either medicinal or highly taxed. if you were to do this to canibis cocaine and even heroin it would move them out of its target audience (the poor) and make the poor sightly more functioning members of society and who wants that?
not the government becuse then they would vote

NoelJ

You can't have too much sex but you can have too much drugs

DonkeyStyle \o/

I think sex should be prescription only.

bigeasyeah

irisheddie85 wrote: »

legal drugs are either medicinal or highly taxed. if you were to do this to canibis cocaine and even heroin it would move them out of its target audience (the poor) and make the poor sightly more functioning members of society and who wants that?
not the government becuse then they would vote

The target market of cocaine is the poor?!
Balderdash.

Fanny Cradock

It's a biased poll.

irisheddie85

bigeasyeah wrote: »

The target market of cocaine is the poor?!
Balderdash.

okay not "poor" but ill educated, and i include myself in this group as i am currently "under the influence"

skyhighflyer

Pat Sheen wrote: »

Assuming that rising sense of rage and/or disgust is because you don't use controlled drugs and believe no-one else should either then, do you smoke tobacco products, drink alcohol, tea, coffee, lucozade, energy drinks or regularly use any one of hundreds of abusable pharmaceutical concotions? ..YES?...well then you are a drug user too.


It's not like prohibition has made controlled drugs any less available, so by definition they're even less controlled now than they've ever been DESPITE prohibition. Therefore drugs control is a logical fallacy.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.~Albert Einstein

Do we need to think differently?

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.~Albert Einstein

You must have been smoking some good **** when you came up with those arguments to back up your point:pac:

First off, someone who drinks coffee or lucozade is not a drug user under any normal definiton of the word.

Secondly, drug control is not a logical fallacy - or do even you understand what that is? Is it easier to get smoke in Ireland or Amsterdam? I think most people will say Amsterdam. Therefore, it's clear that drug control certainly limits access to drugs.

Finally, those Einstein quotes add nothing to your argument and I can't see how they apply.

I'd actually like to see the legalisation of certain drugs but if your arguments are the best that the pro-legalisation lobby has to offer then it'll be a cold day in hell before it happens here.

amacachi

mayordenis wrote: »

We don't need to criminalise sex because natural selection general does a fine job.

I take it you missed this thread then?

Pat Sheen

skyhighflyer wrote: »

You must have been smoking some good **** when you came up with those arguments to back up your point:pac:

First off, someone who drinks coffee or lucozade is not a drug user under any normal definiton of the word.

Secondly, drug control is not a logical fallacy - or do even you understand what that is? Is it easier to get smoke in Ireland or Amsterdam? I think most people will say Amsterdam. Therefore, it's clear that drug control certainly limits access to drugs.

Finally, those Einstein quotes add nothing to your argument and I can't see how they apply.

I'd actually like to see the legalisation of certain drugs but if your arguments are the best that the pro-legalisation lobby has to offer then it'll be a cold day in hell before it happens here.

I was drunk. Caffeine is a drug by all senses of the word and coffee and lucozade both contain it. I think it is probably a lot easier to get smoke in Amsterdam than Dublin, but is it harder to get smoke today, in Ireland, than it was say ten years ago? No?..then how has prohibition fulfilled it's objectives? And what significant gain does Dublin have over Amsterdam thanks to it's more prohibitive stance?

seanybiker

hash and grass yes.
I hang around with 2 heroine addicts and no that should never be legal. Once one of me mates shot up in front of me and I decked him. I dont care what anyone says heroine should never be legal.
Bangers should stay illegal. They are crap (yes i took em) and they are dangerous. Cocaine should stay illegal. Yes I done me little phase of that. What a load of crap. There a young one from new ross in hospital after overdosing on coke a few days ago. It not even on news yet. One of my mates was at the session she was at and had to give her mouth to mouth because of coke. She actually lost her pulse. It took a while to get her pulse back so dont even think about telling me coke is ok.

skyhighflyer

Pat Sheen wrote: »

I was drunk. Caffeine is a drug by all senses of the word and coffee and lucozade both contain it. I think it is probably a lot easier to get smoke in Amsterdam than Dublin, but is it harder to get smoke today, in Ireland, than it was say ten years ago? No?..then how has prohibition fulfilled it's objectives? And what significant gain does Dublin have over Amsterdam thanks to it's more prohibitive stance?

I think prohibition makes Dublin slightly less of a seedy ****hole than it otherwise would be, and for that reason alone I'm happy for it to continue. Like I said, I wouldn't mind the legalisation of certain drugs, but being Irish we'd be almost certain to fcuk it up for everyone.

Pat Sheen

A junky is a crimewave because heroin is both expensive and very very moreish!

seanybiker

Pat Sheen wrote: »

A junky is a crimewave because heroin is both expensive and very very moreish!

Are ya mad. Heroine is cheap boy. Extremely cheap. I never got it meself but as I said already I know 2 people on it. Very cheap mate

b28

Should all cold sore aids be free even though they're legal?
Well, they're legal because they pose no psychologically irrational behaviour threat, and they're not free because the drug companies make a profit.
We're not living in heaven unfortunately! :-D

By the way, drug companies are legal drug dealers.

seanybiker

b28 wrote: »

By the way, drug companies are legal drug dealers.

aint that the truth.

D.Q

seanybiker wrote: »

Are ya mad. Heroine is cheap boy. Extremely cheap. I never got it meself but as I said already I know 2 people on it. Very cheap mate

Heroin- Drug

Heroine- Heroic female character.

b28

Pat Sheen wrote: »

A junky is a crimewave because heroin is both expensive and very very moreish!

A junky is a person who has, in my opinion, a psychological disposition to a drug addiction of some form! They are in no different from a person who is a , a caffeine junkie, a nicotine addict, a binge drinker etc! etc.
Nobody has the right to say that a sex addict/porn addict is any better than a heroin addict. Its the regulation of the drug they're being supplied with and the suppliers qualifications!
So after hours or not, draw your conclusions like I have.
ha i'm feeling lucky 2nite!:D:D:D

b28

b28 wrote: »

Should all cold sore aids be free even though they're legal?
Well, they're legal because they pose no psychologically irrational behaviour threat, and they're not free because the drug companies make a profit.
We're not living in heaven unfortunately! :-D

By the way, drug companies are legal drug dealers.

Yes on a medical card....:D:D
I correct myself before anyone can!:D:D

seanybiker

DieselQueen wrote: »

Heroin- Drug

Heroine- Heroic female character.

Oh sorry I made a mistake. Bad me.

b28

CaptainSkidmark wrote: »

yeah and a year later we are all in rehab

Well check out the rehab numbers for people placed on xanax( a benzodiazepine used to treat anxiety by psychiatrists/doctors).

the numbers will frighten you!
All that legalising a current illegal substance would do is push up rehabilitation patient lists!
the real question is not why they got the drug in the first place or who gave it to them, but what in their brain caused this addiction!

Drug addiction is not to be blamed on the person, but investigated as to what caused it!

Biggins

Where's the simple "no" option?
Talk about one sided polls!

Even as a semi-indicator poll, its a failed poor attempt.

thebman

Cannabis yes (don't smoke it). No good reason to keep it illegal that I have heard.

As for the others, it would have to be on a case by case basis. I don't know enough to say if all drugs should be legal and free

Voted don't know.

Pat Sheen

Biggins wrote: »

Where's the simple "no" option?
Talk about one sided polls!

Even as a semi-indicator poll, its a failed poor attempt.

I said I was drunk! btw the no is the "keep doing what we're doing...." option.

Crumble Froo

even if they were legal, they should NEVER be free. **** that.

i'd agree pretty much with seanybiker's first post here...hash and grass, yep, though i'd like to see it controlled, and wouldnt mind seeing it as illegal in public, but totally safe in your own home.

other drugs; coke, E, opiates, ritalin. i'd like to see them kept illegal, but i would also like to see more progressive means of dealing with offenders. chucking them in jail is a bit of a crap idea tbh. and simple possession/use should be dealt with differently to dealing any sort of large amount.


edit: not voted in the poll because i dont think ALL drugs should be legal, certainly not legal and free, and i don't think we should keep doing what we're doing and i do have an opinion on this.

poll fail, tbh.

seanybiker

Crumble Froo wrote: »

i'd agree pretty much with seanybiker's first post here...hash and grass, yep.

Thank you for that.
One of the fellas I know which would make it 3 people I know that inject heroin. Only heard a few days ago that he raped a 14 year old girl and then went onto her bebo and abused the crap outta her. A week after he raped her he seen her in town(waterford) and made a show of the girl in front of everyone saying she was crap.
Sadly I used to hang around with this chap. Out and out scumbag all his life. I wont say his name cos anyone from waterford will know him and the court case aint up yet. Scum out and out. Im sorry I know the prick.
Now the "legalise drugs" people . I would like to know your answer to that.

Crumble Froo

seanybiker wrote: »

Thank you for that.
One of the fellas I know which would make it 3 people I know that inject heroin. Only heard a few days ago that he raped a 14 year old girl and then went onto her bebo and abused the crap outta her. A week after he raped her he seen her in town(waterford) and made a show of the girl in front of everyone saying she was crap.
Sadly I used to hang around with this chap. Out and out scumbag all his life. I wont say his name cos anyone from waterford will know him and the court case aint up yet. Scum out and out. Im sorry I know the prick.
Now the "legalise drugs" people . I would like to know your answer to that.

let's not forget that some people are just out and out assholes, and that no amount of drink, drugs or abstinence will really change that.

there's just about NO heroin in new zealand (where im based), but most people here who inject drugs will inject morphine for the chillout, or ritalin for the stimulant. i know heaps of people who, at some point in their lives, have injected drugs, usually in a habitual manner. to categorise these people as 'bad' people is just plain wrong. a couple of people who have been users at some point in their lives, i would consider very good friends.

im not going to deny that many people aren't "themselves" after a hit, but i do believe it is a minority who turn to violence to get money for the drug.

i don't believe it should be legalised, though, not by a long shot.

Snowie

its stupid....


Theres nothing worse the having to listen to some coked ip fruit cake or being drunk and being hugged bye a soem dude who with the effects of mdma.... no thanks keep them ileagal besides more money to be made that way hard part is protect your assets Ie drugs form satilite's navey etc gaurda, once you have that sorted your on your way

Crumble Froo

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

being hugged bye a soem dude who with the effects of mdma....

cos you need the effects of mdma for people to hug you? that's probably the alcohol.

Snowie

Crumble Froo wrote: »

cos you need the effects of mdma for people to hug you? that's probably the alcohol.

im the one doing the huging *love buzz*

Odysseus

seanybiker wrote: »

Thank you for that.
One of the fellas I know which would make it 3 people I know that inject heroin. Only heard a few days ago that he raped a 14 year old girl and then went onto her bebo and abused the crap outta her. A week after he raped her he seen her in town(waterford) and made a show of the girl in front of everyone saying she was crap.
Sadly I used to hang around with this chap. Out and out scumbag all his life. I wont say his name cos anyone from waterford will know him and the court case aint up yet. Scum out and out. Im sorry I know the prick.
Now the "legalise drugs" people . I would like to know your answer to that.

Seany I'm not necessarily in the legalise camp, but I'm a psychotherapist and have worked in various treatment settings for 12 years, and to be fair the above behaviour would in my opinion have very little to do with that person's addiction. You have basically described a violent sex offender and banging up heroin isn't responsible for that, there would be alot of other factors going on there.

Rented Mule

b28 wrote: »

By the way, drug companies are legal drug dealers.

What do the follwoing have in common ??

Beer/Liquor Companies
Pharmeceutical Companies
Drug Dealers/Gangs

They are all united to make sure that drugs will always remain illegal. They have the most to lose the day they become available over the counter/grow your own.

KeyLimePie

drugs are bad, alcohol is bad, smoking is great.

m@cc@

Leighton Screeching Seller wrote: »

Like in holland. Magic mushrooms are legal there too I think?

No, they're officially illegal but prosecutions are rare.

JC 2K3

The problem with the drugs legalisation debate is people know absolutely fúck all about drugs, they just go along with different propaganda.

There're three groups, generally:
-The "Drugs are bad, mmmk?" group, who oppose all drug use and don't really give any arguments besides "drugs are pathetic and harmful!"
-The "Only cannabis should be legal" group, which adhere to the same anti-drug bullshít as the above group, but they believe that cannabis should be legal based on propaganda from pro-weed groups or because it's very a common drug.
-The "legalise all drugs" group, who generally take the anti-establishment position and believe that everyone should have the freedom to put whatever the hell they like in their body.

Each of these groups is flawed, and none really know what they're talking about. The first two irritate the crap out of me, especially the second one. The third exhibit a bit more freedom of thought, but ultimately lack insight into the drugs question, seeming to believe that all will be right in the world when drugs are legalised.

Mr Benevolent

Bad poll choices tbh, I'm not voting in this one.

From experience in other countries, the drug legality depends on lots of aspects:

a) on the drug itself, its purity and antisocial implications
b) on the education system and its ability to turn out well balanced individuals
c) on the social system and its attitude to mind-altering substances in general

and lots more.

In other words, you can't just legalise all drugs, frankly that would be insane. However, restricting drug use by making it illegal obviously causes issues too.

5318008!

The main problem is lack of education. Put simply, people don't have any sort of notion of the relative dangers of each drug. Blatant lies, exagerations and propaganda give people a view of drugs that's way off.If everyone knew the truth i doubt we'd even be having this discussion.

Ever wonder why crack is so addictive, and cocaine isn't so much? Ever wonder why so many people get addicted to tobacco but not stronger drugs?

The answer lies in the route of administration. The less time that passes between taking the drug and your brain's reward system firing, the more addictive it'll be. If you inhale or inject a drug the come-up will be almost instant, giving it a very high addictiveness. If you snort a drug the come up takes a few minutes so while it's not in the same league as inhaling/injecting it's still relatively addictive. If you take a drug orally, the come up takes longer and as a result the chances of addiction are a lot lower.

Weed is less addictive because when inhaled the come-up isn't instant, as it affects the reward system in an indirect manner.However it would still be a lot less addictive if people got their cannabinoids from pills instead of inhaling them.

If all drugs (including stimulants and opiates) were available in pill form, you wouldn't see the problems with addiction you see now.There's no point denying that addiction will occur, but it'll be a lot less severe and it'll take longer to develop so people will have plenty of warning.

Obviously there's other important factors aswell. Such as if you take the drug socially or alone, how often you take it, whether you use it as an emotional crutch ect. but they're true to every drug no matter how you take them

Black Swan

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »

I think sex should be prescription only.

Another Pfizer (Viagra) stock holder?;)

Tony Danza

From a Saturday night in Dublin it seems to me that a lot of us aren't mature or responsible enough to drink, so no, I don't think legalising some of these drugs is a good idea.

If we act like children, I think it's proper order that we get treated this way.

Dudess

bigeasyeah wrote: »

Yay lets legalise everything-guns,prostitution,rape and maybe a spot of vigilante justice

Rape? How is that a fair comparison?

Also, I never fail to find it bemusing how people think even occasional moderate drug use is worse than regular binge-drinking sessions...

Pat Sheen

JC 2K3 wrote: »

The third exhibit a bit more freedom of thought, but ultimately lack insight into the drugs question, seeming to believe that all will be right in the world when drugs are legalised.

I know one thing, a lot of dangerous individuals would have their primary source of income removed by making drugs free, legal and regulated. And users will get pure drugs. Seems like a decent start. What "insight" do you think I lack, you don't know me? What about the former police, prosecutors and judiciary who oppose prohibition? Do you really think they lack insight? Sounds to me like you are in a judgemental ivory tower.

Captain-America

Pat Sheen wrote: »

Sex is legal and free...unless you pay for it or do it wrong and is one of the most powerful human drives there is. Like drugs, it's both pleasurable and potentially dangerous and nearly everyone does it, like drugs. Why shouldn't drugs have the same status?

If your feeling a rising sense of rage and/or disgust at this statement, my question to you is this.... Assuming that rising sense of rage and/or disgust is because you don't use controlled drugs and believe no-one else should either then, do you smoke tobacco products, drink alcohol, tea, coffee, lucozade, energy drinks or regularly use any one of hundreds of abusable pharmaceutical concotions? ..YES?...well then you are a drug user too.

So take a deep breath and then, think!

It's not like prohibition has made controlled drugs any less available, so by definition they're even less controlled now than they've ever been DESPITE prohibition. Therefore drugs control is a logical fallacy.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.~Albert Einstein

Do we need to think differently?

We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.~Albert Einstein

Albert Einstein was a scientist, not a drugs advocate.