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Ireland to go down the Electric car route?

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    2 reasons I wont buy an electric car any time soon
    The Alpina B7 Bi-Turbo
    wheels-BMW-Alpina-B7-blogSpan.jpg
    The Ford F250
    ford-f250.jpg

    when they come in electric and dont look like the electric version , then we'll talk , electric cars are nowhere near ready yet

    droools :o

    the F250 would be perfect for the **** country roads where in the last week more potholes have emerged, we have potholes in potholes :eek: here in Galway
    1735kg (got that wrong earlier, this is the car's entire weight)
    dear lord I didn't realize those Teslas are so heavy, thats almost the weight of me x5


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭Seweryn


    2 reasons I wont buy an electric car any time soon ....
    when they come in electric and dont look like the electric version , then we'll talk , electric cars are nowhere near ready yet
    There are a few very good looking and good to drive electric cars. I love this one...:

    sls-amg-e-cell.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭BULLER


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    dear lord I didn't realize those Teslas are so heavy, thats almost the weight of me x5

    Thats the saloon model S, and dont most BMW 5 series weight the same?!




    Fisker Karma looks savage!

    800px-Fisker_Karma.JPG


  • Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭Hector Mildew


    LIGHTNING wrote: »
    You keep talking about products that have aren't in the same situation as electric cars. Plasma TV`s were really expensive 5-7 years ago but you could buy a another type of TV (CRT,TFT,LCD) that did the exact same thing for alot less.

    :confused::confused:
    If they're sucessful then the price of electric cars will come down, as it did for plasma tvs. You can still buy a petrol or diesel car if you don't want an electric - or an LCD or (maybe) a CRT if you don't like plasma TVs...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    BULLER wrote: »
    Fisker Karma looks savage!

    800px-Fisker_Karma.JPG

    Thats what im talking about, they need to start designing cars that people want to drive, not letting the likes of homer simpson go mad designing cars :P like this one below



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Seweryn wrote: »
    There are a few very good looking and good to drive electric cars. I love this one...:

    I will agree with that, but 2 seater sports cars are not the hardest vehicles to make electric

    When they can make a heavy duty electric truck or large luxury/sports saloon that can carry 5 people and a rake of luggage at 150mph then the electric car is ready
    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    droools :o

    the F250 would be perfect for the **** country roads where in the last week more potholes have emerged, we have potholes in potholes :eek: here in Galway
    if they came in right hand drive and were easy to get parts for id be rolling round in one right now


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 867 ✭✭✭gpjordanf1


    When they can make a heavy duty electric truck or large luxury/sports saloon that can carry 5 people and a rake of luggage at 150mph then the electric car is ready

    Would be interested to know where in Ireland you can do this now? And its relevance to the electric car which has been ready since the mid 90's for main stream production?


  • Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭Hector Mildew


    I will agree with that, but 2 seater sports cars are not the hardest vehicles to make electric

    When they can make a heavy duty electric truck or large luxury/sports saloon that can carry 5 people and a rake of luggage at 150mph then the electric car is ready

    This one?

    tesla-model-s-electric-sedan-front-main_w800.jpg

    http://www.rsportscars.com/tesla/2013-tesla-model-s/

    http://www.teslamotors.com/models/specs


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman



    Theres no full specs on it yet so Ill wait, looks promising but Ill wait and see how it stacks up against the B7 in luxury, boot capacity , 0-60 , top speed, space etc.. when its on full release, theyre getting closer to the right idea though


  • Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭Hector Mildew


    Theres no full specs on it yet so Ill wait, looks promising but Ill wait and see how it stacks up against the B7 in luxury, boot capacity , 0-60 , top speed, space etc.. when its on full release, theyre getting closer to the right idea though


    The links I posted have all that info:

    http://www.rsportscars.com/tesla/2013-tesla-model-s/

    http://www.teslamotors.com/models/specs

    Here's another with videos (bottom of page):
    http://www.wired.com/autopia/2011/01/tesla-wants-some-engineering-cred/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    When they can make a heavy duty electric truck or large luxury/sports saloon that can carry 5 people and a rake of luggage at 150mph then the electric car is ready
    why??? considering most petrol cars, probably around 90 percent cant carry 5 people and a rake of luggage at 150mph....
    does that mean all those petrol cars that cant do this are useless???


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman



    no word on boot space in litres but the alpina is still faster, higher top speed, longer, heavier, RWD, (although the teslas awd option maybee a nice one) still promising though


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    robtri wrote: »
    why??? considering most petrol cars, probably around 90 percent cant carry 5 people and a rake of luggage at 150mph....
    does that mean all those petrol cars that cant do this are useless???

    no it doesnt, it just means that electric cars arent for everyone and theyre still not better than ICE cars, jsut trying to balance this thread a little


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    The problem with the Leaf and other electric cars is quite simply distance on a charge sucks donkey balls.

    People say, oh this will get better with time but it is useless now for most people. Even people that only occasionally want to go on a long distance journey would prefer to take their 30,000 car than have to leave it at home and take public transport.

    They are particularly screwed if they want to go to an area public transport doesn't service as in a scenic area as these areas are very unlikely to have a fast charge station at them and your not going to be able to ask for a jump charge of a friendly passer by.

    I was genuinely looking a getting the leaf as I'm looking to switch cars and held off until the prices and details were announced but it seems most of the negative press about it is completely accurate as it is also featured on Nissans website.


  • Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭Hector Mildew


    no word on boot space in litres but the alpina is still faster, higher top speed, longer, heavier, RWD, (although the teslas awd option maybee a nice one) still promising though

    Total boot space is 821 litres - the engine bay is empty so storage front and back. The third link says enough space to "carry a mountain bike, a surfboard and a flat-screen TV simultaneously"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 jerry.cunneen0


    They just dont work well yet.

    Chicken and egg story.

    Need better technology and infrastructure to make them work, needs a massive take up to fund infrastructure and technology.
    BUT WHERE DOES THE HYDROGEN COME FROM


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    BUT WHERE DOES THE HYDROGEN COME FROM

    You can split water into oxygen and hydrogen via electricity and research is conducted using sunlight to do it directly. Also, algae can be used.
    With sunlight and algae you don't need to generate energy first, so the process uses very little energy in comparison.
    If sea water can be used, then we won't run out of fuel for a good while, considering the hydrogen gets combined with oxygen in the air to make water again.
    So you end up at square one, all the water you split up into oxygen and hydrogen ends up being water again.
    If this can be made to work it will simply be the most genius way of running a planet.
    In that case it won't even matter if it's not as energy efficient as other technologies, since your energy source is clean, free and replenishes itself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭jaybee747


    I would have no problem driving an electric motor, even looked into the Leaf but to be honest if the government want people driving electric motors they'd want to be more realistic with their grants,incentives etc.
    The Leaf is €30k after the goverment grant. I'd rather get a nice 2.0tdi for that money.If the Leaf was priced around €20k , i'd get one no bother.

    Also they'd need to sort more charging points across the country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭pajo1981


    In that case it won't even matter if it's not as energy efficient as other technologies, since your energy source is clean, free and replenishes itself.

    Your source of energy is the sun and not water. Why not just use the sun to charge conventional batteries as opposed to generating hydrogen?


  • Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭Hector Mildew


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    As already mentioned the rare earths required for electrics/hybrids and the wind-generators are causing great pollution in places like china and yes killing and posioning people
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6946038.ece

    implementing proper environmental standards would only lead to the price of these to go up thru' the roof making for more expensive electrics etc.
    As already mentioned, this issue is not exclusive to renewable electricty generation or electric cars. The life expectancy of the device must be taken into account.

    China is buying up world reserves at an alarming rate and is only happy to recycle our only other source of these metals - dumped electronic and electrical equipment (especially phones and computers).

    Looks like we can say goodbye to cheap electric cars and most other electronic/ electrical goods for that matter - not good...


    http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/364498/rare-earth-shortage-poses-strategic-threat-to-uk

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11620933


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,685 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    pajo1981 wrote: »
    Your source of energy is the sun and not water. Why not just use the sun to charge conventional batteries as opposed to generating hydrogen?

    Less weight in a Hydrogen Fuel Cell? Cheaper to transport Hydrogen? Less environmental impact producing hydrogen than the batteries?


  • Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭Hector Mildew


    R.O.R wrote: »
    Less weight in a Hydrogen Fuel Cell? Cheaper to transport Hydrogen? Less environmental impact producing hydrogen than the batteries?

    Weight:

    Not much difference - compare two cars of similar range in this post: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70097958&postcount=279

    Cheaper to transport:

    Electricity - power lines versus compressed hydrogen tanks and transport to filling stations

    Environmental impact:

    Depends on how H2 produced and at what efficiency.

    While it's true that metals must be mined for car battery manufacture, the same applies for all batteries and hydrogen fuel cells.

    Also, I'm not sure if oil extraction or coal to oil production has any less env impact.

    Currently, batteries are a more efficient way to store power compared with using a fuel cell to make electricity from hydrogen. Also, to prevent overload, fuel cells charge a battery which feeds the motor.

    All of these have been discussed in detail earlier in this thread


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,685 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    Cheaper to transport:

    Electricity - power lines versus compressed hydrogen tanks and transport to filling stations

    I actually meant to transport around in the car itself. Rather than the huge number of batteries required to get a decent range, a hydrogen fuel cell is only about the same size as a normal fuel tank (that's my understanding, but I'm open to correction). I now know that you also require batteries as a buffer between the hydrogen and to power the car, but surely not in any number near a pure electric car?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    R.O.R wrote: »
    I actually meant to transport around in the car itself. Rather than the huge number of batteries required to get a decent range, a hydrogen fuel cell is only about the same size as a normal fuel tank (that's my understanding, but I'm open to correction). I now know that you also require batteries as a buffer between the hydrogen and to power the car, but surely not in any number near a pure electric car?

    Well, here's some info.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell_vehicle
    Shouldn't think it needs anything major in terms of batteries, if anything at all.
    Weight and recharging times are the two main drawbacks of battery powered cars.
    Should that be overcome, battery powered cars would have the massive advantage of largely available electrical infrastructure, charging points surely being easy enough to provide.
    Maybe a charging time of 20 mins would be realistic, but only if the range was better, so you won't have to stop every 20 mins.
    I'm sure both techs will have an application as well as biofuel and methane (that's sh*t) powered vehicles.
    The frustrating thing is that all of these technologies have been around for decades, even for over a century, but we just got hung up on oil and laziness and complacency took over.
    But that's human nature, never plan ahead, just deal with the catastrophe when it happens and will cost you more by a factor of 10.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭pajo1981


    "Carbon nanotube electrodes dramatically increase lithium battery capacity

    MIT researchers have made an important step toward producing a lithium-ion battery that delivers up to 10 times the power per unit of weight.

    ...and doesn't seem to deteriorate at all as the battery is subjected to over a thousand charge-discharge cycles."

    http://www.gizmag.com/carbon-nanotube-electrodes-increase-lithium-battery-capacity/15716/

    I read somewhere else that the theoretical charge times on nano-tech batteries are orders of magnitude shorter than those of conventional batteries.

    As I said before, these batteries can be used in anything - hence the rate at which battery tech is moving.


  • Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭Hector Mildew


    R.O.R wrote: »
    I actually meant to transport around in the car itself. Rather than the huge number of batteries required to get a decent range, a hydrogen fuel cell is only about the same size as a normal fuel tank (that's my understanding, but I'm open to correction). I now know that you also require batteries as a buffer between the hydrogen and to power the car, but surely not in any number near a pure electric car?

    It’s hard to find info about fuel cell weight/ performance. I read somewhere that Honda have reduced the weight of their latest fuel cell by nearly 200kg, but the article didn’t give the final weight...


    They look to be about the same size as an ICE:
    153.jpg



    I think buffer battery size would be dependant on motor demand and the generation capacity of the cell.

    It looks like future fuel cells will use Nano technology to improve efficiency (while minimising the amount of Platinum and Palladium catalyst required). The same technology is being used to improve Li-ion battery design for pure EVs [edit - pajo1981 got there before me, and more detail, in the previous post ] - hopefully competition will accelerate development and improvement of both leading to truly practical ICE alternatives.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    This could be a better option(in the future)

    Sure to piss off the oil producers.

    http://www.flixxy.com/gm-hy-wire-concept-car.htm


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,743 ✭✭✭kleefarr


    Yeah, hydrogen is the way to go in my opinion.
    Honda are way ahead in this department. Although that GM car looks much more adaptable. Cool.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19 grafter12


    This could be a better option(in the future)

    Sure to piss off the oil producers.

    http://www.flixxy.com/gm-hy-wire-concept-car.htm


    I saw that concept on a programme back in the late 80's called Tomorrow's World and thought it was a cool idea back then. I always wondered what happend to the idea and it's good to see they have been working away on it since then.


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