End of iphone contract

copacetic

seamus wrote: »

We're in limbo slightly at the moment because there is yet to be a competing device for the iPhone, despite what anyone else says. Yes, it has fanboy appeal, but there are several other factors (the app store and integrated WiFi primarily) which set it apart. If the G1 is all that it promises, then it poses very real competition for the iPhone and when the time comes for me to make the decision, I'll pick the phone that I think is better and probably barely blink at who the provider is.

but isn't all this just the case for why operators need to have the best phones and if they can tie them up exclusively they are on to a sure fire winner. Thereby destroying competition.

eg The G1 is the best thing since sliced bread, but O2 sign it up exclusively too. How are meteor, 3 and Vodafone going to compete? How could meteor ever get such an exclusively deal without being able to offer multi country deals with it?

Vodafone, O2 and to a lesser extent 3 have a massive unfair advantage in that situation.

seamus

copacetic wrote: »

but isn't all this just the case for why operators need to have the best phones and if they can tie them up exclusively they are on to a sure fire winner. Thereby destroying competition.

But competition could be equally destroyed by requiring an open market. Most people buy the phone that they want, not the operator which gives the best value - just like (going back to a car thing) most people buy the car they want, not the one which offers the best mileage or has the best guarantee. So if every operator has the same phones, people have little reason to move - the operators will always remain neck-and-neck with pricing.
I can see your point - if they all have the same phones, then they need to come up with other bells and whistles to sweeten the deal, which could be big drops in call costs, or free laptops or whatever. But I think in a small economy like this, there is (as we've found) a tendency for such wide open markets to stagnate and price-fixing and cartels abound.

How could meteor ever get such an exclusively deal without being able to offer multi country deals with it?

Vodafone, O2 and to a lesser extent 3 have a massive unfair advantage in that situation.

Agreed. But that means that meteor have to adapt or die. Just as most people go for the latest phone, there's a good-sized market out there for people who want a phone and nothing else. Meteor could specialise in business offerings, for example, where phone functionality plays second fiddle to pricing. They may end up with few consumers, but a good chunk of the business market.
They could also pair with one of Vodafone/O2/3's international competitors - T-mobile being the best example - and piggyback on what exclusivity agreement they have.

rordeb

I think the facts are, there is always change around the corner. Competitors follow their peers - that means in this case carriers will look to seal exclusive deals.

Phone manufacturers on the other hand will want to push product and even get a cut of the carriers action - they will not tolerate an uncompetitive tarrif - the best phone on the market will only attract a limited number of new customers if the tarrif is too pricey.

The main problem is the tarrif. It would appear that the market (I.e. Us) tolerates a pricing package at a certain level and it would appear that all competitors are happy to tinker around the edges and not upset the apple cart. We are a big milky cash cow that has been milked for years- those of you in the business already know this.

Carriers will occasionally try steal a charge on the market but no-one is really prepared to slash their prices in a bid to steal ahead.

But things always change - exclusives won't last forever and the tarriffs will also adapt. However due to our size and lack of appropriate market monitoring by regulators, we will always be milked by the carriers.

We can't even properly own a phone after paying 1800 for it over an 18 month contract.

walshb5

Tom Dunne wrote: »

How can you legislate for something like this? I am no legal expert, but I really can't see how you can make it illegal not to supply an unlock code.

In other countries such as Germany, Italy, France, Czech Republic and a few others there is legislation in place stating that if a phone is being sold on a contract basis, it must also be available unlocked and sim-free. Apple tried to fight this in these countries - and lost, leading to the iPhone being available from several operators sim-free and unlocked. Also their current customers can have it unlocked at the end of their contract. An example being Orange in France.

Why can't we have this legislation here?

Tom Dunne

walshb5 wrote: »

In other countries such as Germany, Italy, France, Czech Republic and a few others there is legislation in place stating that if a phone is being sold on a contract basis, it must also be available unlocked and sim-free. Apple tried to fight this in these countries - and lost, leading to the iPhone being available from several operators sim-free and unlocked. Also their current customers can have it unlocked at the end of their contract. An example being Orange in France.

Why can't we have this legislation here?

Can you provide links to back up your claims?

To be honest, I don't believe that is the case. I have been following the iPhone since day one and have never heard of Apple engaging in legal action over the iPhone with regards to having it locked on a network.

If I am wrong, fair enough, I'll hold my hand up.

walshb5

Here are some links to sites that reported the story in France:
French Regulators Kill Orange’s Apple iPhone 3G Exclusivity
Unlocked and contract-less iPhone 3G available in France
Here is one where you can see the iPhone 3G 8GB advertised on Orange France's website available on its own or "seul" for €609. Orange France
prix du Apple iPhone 3G 8Go noir seul : = price of apple iPhone 8G on it's own.

Australia: iPhone 3G to be sold unlocked in Australia
I know from family in Oz, that Optus sell the phone unlocked. You have to pay the pre-pay phone cost + AUS$80 for an unlocked one. Can't see it on Optus's site though, might be just something they offer in stores.

See this Information Week story on Germany.

How it's done in these countries is: All the phones sold by a carrier are locked to that carrier, but as they are required to also sell them unlocked, you can ask for an unlocked one. In this case they call apple with the IMEI of the phone that is to be unlocked, it is 'whitelisted' and is unlocked during activation, so as to allow any sim.

Tom Dunne

I am not disputing the SIM-free availability, I am disputing the fact that Apple engaged in legal action to prevent the phone from being made available SIM-free.

walshb5 wrote: »

Apple tried to fight this in these countries - and lost

Tom Dunne wrote: »

To be honest, I don't believe that is the case. I have been following the iPhone since day one and have never heard of Apple engaging in legal action over the iPhone with regards to having it locked on a network

walshb5 wrote: »

Here are some links to sites that reported the story in France:
French Regulators Kill Orange’s Apple iPhone 3G Exclusivity
Unlocked and contract-less iPhone 3G available in France
Here is one where you can see the iPhone 3G 8GB advertised on Orange France's website available on its own or "seul" for €609. Orange France
prix du Apple iPhone 3G 8Go noir seul : = price of apple iPhone 8G on it's own.

Australia: iPhone 3G to be sold unlocked in Australia
I know from family in Oz, that Optus sell the phone unlocked. You have to pay the pre-pay phone cost + AUS$80 for an unlocked one. Can't see it on Optus's site though, might be just something they offer in stores.

See this Information Week story on Germany.

Your links above show that the phone is available SIM-free, not that Apple engaged in legal action.

walshb5

Oh, and the end of contract is the same. Can't find the actual news story, but I know because a French friend of mine got p***ed off with orange France, terminated her contract with a couple of months to go (same as you do here with normal phone contracts, by paying the monthly fee up to the end of the contract) and her iPhone was unlocked for her, after calling Orange, waiting a few hours, and plugging it into iTunes. She's now with Bouygues telecom.

walshb5

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I am not disputing the SIM-free availability, I am disputing the fact that Apple engaged in legal action to prevent the phone from being made available SIM-free.

Your links above show that the phone is available SIM-free, not that Apple engaged in legal action.

I agree,
It's from a few months ago, I can't find the actual news stories on it now, despite searching.:mad:

walshb5

Anyway, my earlier point was that there is legislation in those countries covering phone locking.

philiporeilly

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I am not disputing the SIM-free availability, I am disputing the fact that Apple engaged in legal action to prevent the phone from being made available SIM-free.

From what I remember, Apple were slow to release to those countries and initially didnt have sim free versions until they were ordered to do so. I dont recall Apple taking any legal action to contest this though.