The Model Agent

Has anyone been watching that show? Is it just me or is it working as hard as possible to hammer home all the 'truths' of 'beauty'?
I watched the first episode and the presenter is going out looking for girls. She says she 'doesn't want to be like other model competitions' (yeah right) and she's looking for people with 'personality'. What lies! All the girls she picked were your typical, everyday, lookalike girly-girls. There is no diversity in the group whatsoever!
And I really laughed at what she said about the image of models. She said basically that ballerinas and basketball players have to have certain physiques, so she doesn't understand why modeling gets such criticism...What an idiot! Does she not think maybe ballerinas and basketball players have GOOD ATHLETICALLY-ORIENTED REASONS for being the way they are? The only thing that's going to happen when you send a waif rushing up and down a catwalk is the likelihood of her collapsing increasing due to malnourishment!
It really makes me uneasy that impressionable teenagers, who are already apprehensive enough about their appearance, are probably going to be watching this religiously

bambera

I take personal insult to her basically calling th majority of Irish girls (as put by Gerry Ryan) fat midgets just cause were not all 6ft tall and don't fall over anytime the wind blows :mad:

minidazzler

bambera wrote: »

I take personal insult to her basically calling th majority of Irish girls (as put by Gerry Ryan) fat midgets just cause were not all 6ft tall and don't fall over anytime the wind blows :mad:

The Hypocrisy in Gerry Ryan calling anyone fat.

bambera

bambera wrote: »

I take personal insult to her basically calling th majority of Irish girls (as put by Gerry Ryan) fat midgets just cause were not all 6ft tall and don't fall over anytime the wind blows :mad:

It's cool to put everyone down, it makes you feel better about yourself and better tv.

The Hypocrisy in Gerry Ryan calling anyone fat.

I always had to giggle at Dr Phil doing diet shows

bambera

bluewolf wrote: »

It's cool to put everyone down, it makes you feel better about yourself and better tv.

In that case; the fancy model agent lady has a face like a smacked babies arse.

Ahh you're right, I do feel better

Gauge

Funny how the girls all ended up looking so similar (poker straight hair, big eyes, skinny bodies) if they were going for personality all along.

I know that it would be unrealistic to expect them to have chosen a more diverse bunch, and I'd never have expected them to. But they should at least not insult peoples intelligence by pretending it was a search based on personality and oh hey what a surprise, they ended up looking just like you'd expect a model to look anyway!

brianthebard

Empty vessels have to be filled with something, even if its just empty words.

jaysus just saw the ad
"now we want to strip away the makeup and stuff and find the personality underneath"
"yeh when I was young I always read magazines"
no, you can keep the makeup thanks

GirlInterrupted

Certain physical types make better models because thats the shape that (rightly or wrongly) designers make their samples for.

They do that because it shows the clothes off to their best advantage.

Personality is projected, its not necessarily apparent in someones looks, or body type.

I don't think that calling models empty vessels, or insinuating that they're somehow less than intelligent is fair or accurate either.

That said, yes, I think more realistic body types would be a better influence on young girls, and that more diversity in what we consider beauty could only benefit both men and women.

But there's nothing wrong with being tall and slim, and its not fair on anyone to assume that a girl with that sort of figure is suffering from a disorder of some kind. It degrades the suffering of those who do have eating disorders to bandy the term at anyone who may be naturally very thin.

brianthebard

GirlInterrupted wrote: »

I don't think that calling models empty vessels, or insinuating that they're somehow less than intelligent is fair or accurate either.

Only speaking for myself here but I was referring to the industries surrounding the modelling, not the people themselves. The modelling/fashion/reality tv industries are to me empty. (Standard position for an Adorno-ite tbh :pac: )

GirlInterrupted

brianthebard wrote: »

Only speaking for myself here but I was referring to the industries surrounding the modelling, not the people themselves. The modelling/fashion/reality tv industries are to me empty. (Standard position for an Adorno-ite tbh :pac: )

Completely agree with that. I just find it upsetting when people talk of the girls as though they are somehow less than human. You can't blame models for looking like...well, models.

A fashion industry insider tells me that there's nothing uglier than the beauty industry, although I think reality television is a serious competitor for that title.

brianthebard

Of course, the industry dictates what the models look like, not the other way around.

Wibbs

GirlInterrupted wrote: »

Certain physical types make better models because thats the shape that (rightly or wrongly) designers make their samples for.

They do that because it shows the clothes off to their best advantage.

Personality is projected, its not necessarily apparent in someones looks, or body type.

I don't think that calling models empty vessels, or insinuating that they're somehow less than intelligent is fair or accurate either.

That said, yes, I think more realistic body types would be a better influence on young girls, and that more diversity in what we consider beauty could only benefit both men and women.

But there's nothing wrong with being tall and slim, and its not fair on anyone to assume that a girl with that sort of figure is suffering from a disorder of some kind. It degrades the suffering of those who do have eating disorders to bandy the term at anyone who may be naturally very thin.

+1

OK ramble time. TBH I don't think much will change though. The fashion industry trends are set by mostly women and gay men who would have a different ideal of feminine beauty. Now you could argue that the clothes hang better on thinner women, but that could equally be down to the fact that they are designed for thinner women. There are styles of clothes that look better on bigger women. I dunno, it seems that women themselves want to look at these thinner women too. Few men do. I know it's a banal argument but look at pron types of women. They don't look like models body wise. Yes they have their own stereotypes of course, but there is more pron produced with fuller figure women aimed at men, than skinny women.

IMHO the closest mainstream fashion came to women with actually nice bodies(from the male angle) was in the days of the "supermodel". Yes they were very slim, but they had arses and boobs and hips, by comparison to today.

You would think that there would be serious money to be made designing for and featuring the average woman's figure, but it seems not. I suppose every culture espouses the "ideal" that is outside the norm. Maybe that's it's very function. I reckon the average woman back when this was the ideal

felt bad that she wasn't shaped like that.

Macha

Wibbs wrote: »

+1

OK ramble time. TBH I don't think much will change though. The fashion industry trends are set by mostly women and gay men who would have a different ideal of feminine beauty. Now you could argue that the clothes hang better on thinner women, but that could equally be down to the fact that they are designed for thinner women. There are styles of clothes that look better on bigger women. I dunno, it seems that women themselves want to look at these thinner women too. Few men do. I know it's a banal argument but look at pron types of women. They don't look like models body wise. Yes they have their own stereotypes of course, but there is more pron produced with fuller figure women aimed at men, than skinny women.

IMHO the closest mainstream fashion came to women with actually nice bodies(from the male angle) was in the days of the "supermodel". Yes they were very slim, but they had arses and boobs and hips, by comparison to today.

You would think that there would be serious money to be made designing for and featuring the average woman's figure, but it seems not. I suppose every culture espouses the "ideal" that is outside the norm. Maybe that's it's very function. I reckon the average woman back when this was the ideal

felt bad that she wasn't shaped like that.

Totally agree. Yes the current ideal is very unhealthy but the bigger problem is the fact that this concept is so prevalent and hyped so much. OK make the ideal bigger and more attainable - you're still going to have a large amount of the population that don't fit into that ideal and who are going to feel unworthy.

Really, there should be a wider idea of what is "ideal". But if you do that, you don't make people feel as unhappy and willing to buy whatever it is you're pushing...

Birdie086

I agree that it is women driving this trend. I've recently put on about about 3 stone(working on losing it at the mo). Was out in town last night, got just as much male attenion as when I was thinner. Got scornful looks from the womenfolk as much as to say 'what does she think shes doing in here'. Terrrible really.

TriceMarie

Birdie086 wrote: »

I agree that it is women driving this trend. I've recently put on about about 3 stone(working on losing it at the mo). Was out in town last night, got just as much male attenion as when I was thinner. Got scornful looks from the womenfolk as much as to say 'what does she think shes doing in here'. Terrrible really.

:mad::mad::mad: AAAAARGH!!!F#*k them Birdie!You know you're soo much better than them tools!;)...I hate young ones like that,they're the types who probably act complete sluts because they don't have the ntural goods like I'm sure you do!:P
Yep it's true,guys give you attention no matter if your "thin" or "fat"...after I lost two stone I got the same amount I would say..because even though I wasn't 100% comfortable before,I acted like I was.I'm telling all ye women,it's all about the confidence!If ye don't have it then fake it ....
I always felt though,when your on the dancefloor you kinda lose yourself and you gain that confidence,and you have the lads hangin off ya :D

And yes,completely agree with women driving the trend and b#tchyness on..it's still like the type of bullying in primary schools at the end of the day..they need to grow up,and stop being jelous of people who are comfortable in themselves (e.g:Dawn French) alot of the time it's actually the b#tchy ones that aren't comfortable.
I wonder would there be as many people with eating disorders if we we're aloud have more meat on us.It's also highly upsetting to see men with eating disorders (and yes,just like women alot of guys are natural thin too) but sometimes woman might be self concious if they feel that they're bigger than the guy,and it's all a viscious circle!
It's really upsetting considering the differnce of what is "beautiful" since bygone eras.Look at Maryln Monroe etc..And the Venus painting with their lovely curved hips and ass .."a womans body is the most beautiful thing a man will see"-that quote's from the brilliant film Venus.

Anywho,I've rambeled too much by now

Wibbs

bluewolf wrote: »

I always had to giggle at Dr Phil doing diet shows

So it's not just me then?:D

TriceMarie wrote:

It's really upsetting considering the differnce of what is "beautiful" since bygone eras.Look at Maryln Monroe etc..And the Venus painting with their lovely curved hips and ass

True though Monroe was pretty damn slim for most of her career and it depends on the venus painting you refer to. Yes there have been times when extremes at both ends were held as ideals, but in general the middle ground has held sway.

fmcc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp7IP1XB9WY

Nuff said.

LivingDeadGirl

We can all say 'oh its so terrible what the media does to try and make us feel bad/fat/ugly', but who's ready to admit that despite understanding the ploy they still buy into it and feel like they're too fat because of the ideals set?

*raises hand*

bambera

fmcc wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp7IP1XB9WY

Nuff said.

Word :cool:

Most days I just don't wear make-up cause it makes me feel like im pretending to be someone I'm not. I admit I do look better with it on but if someone wants to judge how I look then they'll just have to put up with my real face.

I remember age 15 going to my Godsons christening and my mam chasing me around the house trying to put make-up on me. And monthers are the ones who are supposed to tell you you look perfect the way you are!

bambera

bambera wrote: »

I remember age 15 going to my Godsons christening and my mam chasing me around the house trying to put make-up on me. And monthers are the ones who are supposed to tell you you look perfect the way you are!

My grandmother has been trying to get fake tan on me for years
now she's finally resigned to the fact it is not going to happen EVER she's suggesting "oh a little blusher at least"
No!

bambera

bluewolf wrote: »

My grandmother has been trying to get fake tan on me for years
now she's finally resigned to the fact it is not going to happen EVER she's suggesting "oh a little blusher at least"
No!

I have really pale skin. I have been asked several times (by the same people each time) if I was sick. Then I have to explain yet again that I'm naturally this pale. Then there is an arkward silence.

Dudess

Deleted User wrote: »

She said basically that ballerinas and basketball players have to have certain physiques, so she doesn't understand why modeling gets such criticism...What an idiot! Does she not think maybe ballerinas and basketball players have GOOD ATHLETICALLY-ORIENTED REASONS for being the way they are?

Yeah, that annoyed me. The concern expressed is not over the healthily slim models but the horrifically emaciated ones.

bambera wrote: »

I take personal insult to her basically calling th majority of Irish girls (as put by Gerry Ryan) fat midgets just cause were not all 6ft tall and don't fall over anytime the wind blows :mad:

She said nothing of the sort. And then Gerry Ryan, in complete good-natured jest, twisted something perfectly innocuous she said - for the laugh.

TriceMarie wrote: »

I hate young ones like that,they're the types who probably act complete sluts because they don't have the ntural goods like I'm sure you do!:P

What is the necessity of the last comment? It just comes across as really resentful.

bambera

bambera wrote: »

I have really pale skin. I have been asked several times (by the same people each time) if I was sick. Then I have to explain yet again that I'm naturally this pale. Then there is an arkward silence.

hehe
I don't get asked that - actually people do notice when I'm actually sick and even paler. I have no idea how.

allabouteve

Birdie086 wrote: »

I agree that it is women driving this trend. I've recently put on about about 3 stone(working on losing it at the mo). Was out in town last night, got just as much male attenion as when I was thinner. Got scornful looks from the womenfolk as much as to say 'what does she think shes doing in here'. Terrrible really.

You'll get just as much stick from women for being ''too thin''.
I'm very thin, always have been, and I've spent my life putting up with eating disorder jibes, and the eyes rolling from other women whenever I dare talk about food.

You'll be bitched at/to for being too thin and the same for being too fat.

The worst thing of all is that its not the fashion industry who's really to blame, because when 'real' models are put on the front of magazines, sales go down.

Partly due to longstanding conditioning maybe, but also because women are more 'aspirational' in nature to men and will seek what they consider to be aspirational images to compare themselves to, in a way males don't.

bambera

Dudess wrote: »

She said nothing of the sort. And then Gerry Ryan, in complete good-natured jest, twisted something perfectly innocuous she said - for the laugh.

He may have been laughing when he said it but he was reading in between the lines IMO. After she said Irish girls are very short and he made the midget comment, she didn't seem to care and added "and they like their carbs." If that wasn't her calling Irish girls fat, then I don't know what she meant.

smileyhappy

When I go somewhere warm I cut down on carbs immensely. Why? It's warmer!

They need a reality check. Irish girls DO tend to be a bit plumper while healthy than their mediterranian counterparts. Why? It's freakin cold in Ireland!!!!! This also discourages (but doesn't excuse the lack of) exercise too, so overall we get fatter.

To be fair though, we are a nation of shorties. I'm 5'6 and wear long length jeans. When did that become tall?! We're also quite fat as a nation. We don't tend to photograph entirely well either. These are massive generalisations, I accept, but they're also quite true. But we're also quite beautiful, just not in the way that the fashion industry wants. Pale skin can look very fresh and healthy.

Look at clothing on a rail in a shop. Pick out a pretty top and see how nice it looks in size 6-8. Look at that top in size 20. It's not as nice. Things look prettier and more elegent in smaller sizes. They appeal more in small sizes. Designers want their stuff to appeal because it means more money for them. They'd be mad NOT to use thin, tall models.

Overall though, I'd rather be my 5'6 53kg self with a few flabby bits, non existant jaw line, cheekbones that are barely there and pale skin than be some 6 foot tanned blonde with bone structure to die for. Sure, fine to be that girl in the short term, but when I'm dealing with guys, they can actually treat me with respect rather than going "yeah, I'd dip my stick". I don't like the idea of being viewed as an object.

Unfortunately, it's taken me far too long to get to this point. Much much too long.

Dudess

allabouteve wrote: »

The worst thing of all is that its not the fashion industry who's really to blame, because when 'real' models are put on the front of magazines, sales go down.

Partly due to longstanding conditioning maybe, but also because women are more 'aspirational' in nature to men and will seek what they consider to be aspirational images to compare themselves to, in a way males don't.

When you say "real" do you mean average sized? Because that makes sense when you take the aspirational aspect into account, as you mention. Personally, if I buy a magazine, I want escapism, fantasy and perfection, not reality.
Take the Dove campaign: as well as finding it really condescending, insincere (ultimately it's a clever marketing ploy that sells lots of Dove, hidden behind a "we care" message) and penny-pinching (they're gonna be cheaper than professional models) I don't need my ads to be realistic.

However, what I don't want to see is emaciated and ill-looking. Do those images really sell more clothes than a slim yet healthy woman with curves in the right places?
Surely we'd be more attracted to this image http://mad.walla.co.il/archive/334463-5.jpg than this http://www.moonbattery.com/skinny-model.jpg ?

bambera wrote: »

He may have been laughing when he said it but he was reading in between the lines IMO. After she said Irish girls are very short and he made the midget comment, she didn't seem to care and added "and they like their carbs." If that wasn't her calling Irish girls fat, then I don't know what she meant.

All I remember was her saying (I'm paraphrasing) "there isn't enough of a celebration of Irish women, I'm trying to change that" and "there are certain notions surrounding Irish women, I'm dispelling that". I thought Gerry Ryan was picking up totally harmless things she said, and in a non malicious way, pretending to read into them. Thought it was quite funny.
I'm always defending Irish women on After Hours when idiotic generalisations are made, but I think you're being extremely sensitive in relation to this woman. If she really said something to offend Irish women in general and meant it, why would she bother coming over here to look for models?

I really think the whole fashion industry needs a wake up call. I'm not saying skinny is ugly, but neither are bigger women. To me the ugliest thing is someone that is fake - someone who starves themselves, gets implants, fake nails, too much makeup. I spent a long time not liking the way I look but since I've matured I love looking at someone who is comfortable in their own skin.
People who are fake aren't attractive - to men or women. I have a lot of male friends and they hate that whole look. I'm bi myself and I can't stand it. One person I hope fashion really needs to take note of is Whitney from ANTM cycle 10. She's absolutely stunning, vibrant, confident and it doesn't matter that she's plus size - she looks great!

allabouteve

Dudess wrote: »

When you say "real" do you mean average sized? Because that makes sense when you take the aspirational aspect into it, as you mention. Personally, if I buy a magazine, I want escapism, not reality.
Take the Dove campaign: as well as finding it really condescending, insincere (ultimately it's a clever marketing ploy that sells lots of Dove, hidden behind a "we care" message) and penny-pinching (they're gonna be cheaper than professional models) I don't need my ads to be realistic.

However, what I don't want to see is emaciated and ill-looking. Do they really sell more clothes than a slim yet healthy woman with curves in the right places?
Surely we'd be more attracted to this image http://mad.walla.co.il/archive/334463-5.jpg than this http://www.moonbattery.com/skinny-model.jpg ?

The second image there is a famous one within the industry, and was taken from a 'pro-ana' website where an image of a healthy model was shopped to provide the horror you see there. I've worked on many magazines and bad as they are, that image as it is would never be used.

Even, whether its obvious or not, the model in the first image is very thin. Mostly this is because the vast majority of models working on magazines and in photographic work are less than 23 years old. They simply haven't filled out yet as women. I worked on magazines for years and I know that a very, very, thin girl can look shapely and healthy if she's shot in certain ways. She can also look healthy because young girls have more fat in their cheeks even if their bodies are very thin indeed. Its not the case as you get even a little older though.

The Dove campaign is a bit of a problem with me. I do think its exploitative of the women they use who don't get paid professional rates, its fairly patronising in its message ''.....buy our brand, we agree you aren't perfect'' but.....you just wouldn't see those ordinary women on television or print ads, never mind the older women, if it wasn't for that campaign. The older or less than 'perfect' just would not be seen at all.

So patronising, yes, but necessary I think, becasuse the regular girl wouldn't be represented at all without it.

legallyminded

Can i just say that I am 6 foot and that I am a model.







But heres the punchline....



Im actually between a size 16 - 20

Its amazing when I walk into a clothes store like river island...top shop etc all their ranges stop at 16......why in gods name to you want to stop people from buying your clothes.

Just because im a 6 footer that takes i big size that i must percive to look "ugly" in their clothes

get real and may be in crease your profits at the same time.

and i have also noticed that in the recession certain shops are making their sizes smaller.....im on to you lot!!!

Wibbs

smileyhappy wrote: »

When I go somewhere warm I cut down on carbs immensely. Why? It's warmer!

They need a reality check. Irish girls DO tend to be a bit plumper while healthy than their mediterranian counterparts. Why? It's freakin cold in Ireland!!!!! This also discourages (but doesn't excuse the lack of) exercise too, so overall we get fatter.

That has a lot to do with it. You see some women(and men) from such countries getting a belly on them if they're here a few years. I do think we're generally stockier as a group anyway. Actually bigger boned/framed. You look at men and womens wrists and they're bigger in general than say Italians. There's a body shape in women, that petite shape, but still with meat on the bones that you really don't tend to see here as much.

To be fair though, we are a nation of shorties.

I dunno. Maybe when compared to the dutch say, but the latins tend to be short in my experience.

I'm 5'6 and wear long length jeans. When did that become tall?! We're also quite fat as a nation. We don't tend to photograph entirely well either. These are massive generalisations, I accept, but they're also quite true. But we're also quite beautiful, just not in the way that the fashion industry wants. Pale skin can look very fresh and healthy.

That's true.

Look at clothing on a rail in a shop. Pick out a pretty top and see how nice it looks in size 6-8. Look at that top in size 20. It's not as nice. Things look prettier and more elegent in smaller sizes. They appeal more in small sizes. Designers want their stuff to appeal because it means more money for them. They'd be mad NOT to use thin, tall models.

I would agree there too. It's also an age thing. Women I knew that were skinny in their teens fleshed out, a lot in some cases, in their 20's. There is the joke about the Spanish/Greek/Italian heavy mamma in a voluminous black dress, but even then I think Irish men and women chunk up younger.

Overall though, I'd rather be my 5'6 53kg self with a few flabby bits, non existant jaw line, cheekbones that are barely there and pale skin than be some 6 foot tanned blonde with bone structure to die for. Sure, fine to be that girl in the short term, but when I'm dealing with guys, they can actually treat me with respect rather than going "yeah, I'd dip my stick". I don't like the idea of being viewed as an object.

I would agree, but up to a point. just because a woman is appreciably "good looking" doesn't mean all men, not even most men will treat her as an object. Not in the flesh, most will be too busy trying to impress her I reckon.

Unfortunately, it's taken me far too long to get to this point. Much much too long.

That's the sad part in all this. Regardless of what the image being pushed is, the fact that many young women don't see the beauty they have in themselves is very sad.

allabouteve

smileyhappy wrote: »

When I go somewhere warm I cut down on carbs immensely. Why? It's warmer!

They need a reality check. Irish girls DO tend to be a bit plumper while healthy than their mediterranian counterparts. Why? It's freakin cold in Ireland!!!!! This also discourages (but doesn't excuse the lack of) exercise too, so overall we get fatter.

To be fair though, we are a nation of shorties. I'm 5'6 and wear long length jeans. When did that become tall?! We're also quite fat as a nation. We don't tend to photograph entirely well either. These are massive generalisations, I accept, but they're also quite true. But we're also quite beautiful, just not in the way that the fashion industry wants. Pale skin can look very fresh and healthy.

Look at clothing on a rail in a shop. Pick out a pretty top and see how nice it looks in size 6-8. Look at that top in size 20. It's not as nice. Things look prettier and more elegent in smaller sizes. They appeal more in small sizes. Designers want their stuff to appeal because it means more money for them. They'd be mad NOT to use thin, tall models.

Overall though, I'd rather be my 5'6 53kg self with a few flabby bits, non existant jaw line, cheekbones that are barely there and pale skin than be some 6 foot tanned blonde with bone structure to die for. Sure, fine to be that girl in the short term, but when I'm dealing with guys, they can actually treat me with respect rather than going "yeah, I'd dip my stick". I don't like the idea of being viewed as an object.

Unfortunately, it's taken me far too long to get to this point. Much much too long.

Two points I'd like to raise on this one...

Firstly, the weather has little to do with it, genetics does.
Go to Sweden and you'll see much slimmer women in much colder tempratures than in Ireland. Its not just diets either, although Swedes do eat more protein and less carbs in general.

Secondly, I'm six foot one and blonde. I'm not treated like an object because I simply won't tolerate being treated like an object.

People will treat you how you permit them to, in my experience, and if you take it, they'll dish it.

Wibbs

allabouteve wrote: »

Firstly, the weather has little to do with it, genetics does.
Go to Sweden and you'll see much slimmer women in much colder tempratures than in Ireland. Its not just diets either, although Swedes do eat more protein and less carbs in general.

Very true, though you could argue that the very cold burns off the calories in of itself. They have good summers too. Maybe a cold damp climate is what does it??

Genetics has something to do with it, but as a nation we have defo gotten fatter since I was a kid in the 70's and it has to be down to the food.

Looking at my school photos, the "fat" guy in my year, was round faced and plump. He was not fat by any stretch in todays terms, yet he was to us back then. Mentioned this on another thread; a mate and me were watching the Beatles doing their gig on the roof in 1969(it's on youtube) and he noted in the street scenes of people listening, no fat people. None. Male or female. Same street today in london? Way more. The first maccy dees didnt even open in this country until 1979 IIRC. People simply ate less food, smaller portions and moved around more and there were few enough gyms then too.

OK some men and women have a tendency to put on more and find it bloody hard to shift. They're parents may be the same, but in most cases the parents are still smaller. Maybe the cookery pron shows are also to blame.:D

Stheno

Wibbs wrote: »

Mentioned this on another thread; a mate and me were watching the Beatles doing their gig on the roof in 1969(it's on youtube) and he noted in the street scenes of people listening, no fat people. None. Male or female. Same street today in london? Way more. The first maccy dees didnt even open in this country until 1979 IIRC. People simply ate less food, smaller portions and moved around more and there were few enough gyms then too.

Agreed, I read an article recently (can't remember where ) which took a look at the average lifestyle now and 30 years ago, and the increase in obesity in that time.

They were able to track a lot of lifestyle changes that could be factored into the increase in obesity now as opposed to then.

allabouteve

Wibbs wrote: »

Very true, though you could argue that the very cold burns off the calories in of itself. They have good summers too. Maybe a cold damp climate is what does it??

Genetics has something to do with it, but as a nation we have defo gotten fatter since I was a kid in the 70's and it has to be down to the food.

That theory would fly faster with me if Swedes didn't have their thermostats up in the late seventies... The summers aren't that great either.

Granted we've all gotten fatter generally, but an Italian friend has linked me the comparative BMI's (imperfect measurement, I know) of the various Eurozone countries.

Italian and French women have the smallest BMI's and from my travels I can certainly believe that. My Italian friend is six foot tall with a 26 inch waist. The height might be unusual in Italy, but a tiny waist like that is commonplace.

Irish girls, to my eye, not only are shorter, but they're shaped differently. The waist is less defined in an Irish girl than in her continental counterpart, comparative to overall size.

So although everyone's getting larger, those differences exist and while the dietry staples might have a role in that, I suspect that genetic tendencies are as prevelent in body shape as they are in the hair colour of Swedes and the eye colour of Italians.

shellyboo

Deleted User wrote: »

One person I hope fashion really needs to take note of is Whitney from ANTM cycle 10. She's absolutely stunning, vibrant, confident and it doesn't matter that she's plus size - she looks great!

Whitney is a plus-size model... she's not *actually* plus size. Plus size models have to be a size 14, an 18 maximum. So the vast majority of plus-size models are actually 'normal'-sized women, according to the fashion industry at least, where anything up to and including 16 is a standard size.

That's how warped our perceptions are, that we see these sorts of women (all plus size models) as fat, when they're absolutely not. Our views are so, so perverted by the industry; by the models, and not even the models - the airbrushing they do TO the models that we actually have no idea what is real anymore.

That said - models are thin for a reason. They're basically - and this is not meant as an insult at all to their skill and talent - walking clothes hangers. They're there to make the clothes look good and they have to be a certain size and shape to do that.

I don't blame this model agent for observing that Irish women are, for the most part, shorter and chubbier than some of our worldwide counterparts: because we ARE.

Wibbs

I would agree especially with the italians(latins in general) and their shapes. Small waists are less common here. Even among thin women, they're more straight up and down kinda thing. Men are stockier and seem to be "softer" too. Even fit guys in gyms etc. I've been in a gym in Madrid and bloody hell the men looked like michaelangelo was busy with the chisel and the women were very toned. Big diff to here. I found germany and england to be similar to us though.

Wibbs

allabouteve wrote: »

The second image there is a famous one within the industry, and was taken from a 'pro-ana' website where an image of a healthy model was shopped to provide the horror you see there. I've worked on many magazines and bad as they are, that image as it is would never be used.

+1

Even, whether its obvious or not, the model in the first image is very thin. Mostly this is because the vast majority of models working on magazines and in photographic work are less than 23 years old. They simply haven't filled out yet as women. I worked on magazines for years and I know that a very, very, thin girl can look shapely and healthy if she's shot in certain ways. She can also look healthy because young girls have more fat in their cheeks even if their bodies are very thin indeed. Its not the case as you get even a little older though.

I agree the first woman is tiny, or would be in the flesh.

The Dove campaign is a bit of a problem with me. I do think its exploitative of the women they use who don't get paid professional rates, its fairly patronising in its message ''.....buy our brand, we agree you aren't perfect'' but.....you just wouldn't see those ordinary women on television or print ads, never mind the older women, if it wasn't for that campaign. The older or less than 'perfect' just would not be seen at all.

So patronising, yes, but necessary I think, becasuse the regular girl wouldn't be represented at all without it.

OK Im a bloke but it feels like a very cynical exercise to me.

challengemaster

Before everyone goes off ranting about genetics -

Gene expression = Genetics + Enviornment

Simply put, you can have the genes to be 7 feet tall, but end up a midget if you dont have the enviornment for ideal growth.

Considering we're such a small country compared to others, we definatly have a large population of lazy, unfit and obese people. I seriously doubt that the drinking culture of the country is completely unrelated....

I have to say on watching this for the first time, I'm completely unimpressed with the girls on this show. If you walked down grafton street/any similar st any day of the week you'd find this and better...
Bit cringey compared to the USA version

bambera

Dudess wrote: »

All I remember was her saying (I'm paraphrasing) "there isn't enough of a celebration of Irish women, I'm trying to change that" and "there are certain notions surrounding Irish women, I'm dispelling that". I thought Gerry Ryan was picking up totally harmless things she said, and in a non malicious way, pretending to read into them. Thought it was quite funny.
I'm always defending Irish women on After Hours when idiotic generalisations are made, but I think you're being extremely sensitive in relation to this woman. If she really said something to offend Irish women in general and meant it, why would she bother coming over here to look for models?

Because America/Brittan's Next top model were both big money makers I reckon, and she decided to jump on the bandwagon (as a lot of Irish shows do), make a load of cash by spealing out some cock and bull story of doing it to "celebrate Irish women".

conorlechance

Ah tbh a lot of you are being a bit stereotypical and a bit harsh. Right across the European Union, obesity is rising. Irish kids are among the most active in the Union which takes away the comment about weather(which is relative anyway, our weather isn't bad for doing activities and in terms of participation we are a sporting nation)

Take a look at this statistic.

The highest prevalence of overweight children is found in southern European countries at around 20-35 percent as opposed to 10-20 percent in northern Europe.

In Europe we have the 8th highest obesity rate, behind
UK
SLOVAKIA
GREECE
HUNGARY
LUXEMBOURG
CZECH REPUBLIC
SPAIN

In that order. I wonder how we would have compared 20 years ago though.

TriceMarie

Dudess wrote: »

What is the necessity of the last comment? It just comes across as really resentful.

Sorry meant no harm..it's just a sore subject for me.I've seen what eating disorders can do to people close to me

TriceMarie

Wibbs wrote: »

So it's not just me then?:D

True though Monroe was pretty damn slim for most of her career and it depends on the venus painting you refer to. Yes there have been times when extremes at both ends were held as ideals, but in general the middle ground has held sway.

Well yes,alot of photos she is quite thin I for a long time pondered how she was supposedly a size 16...however I came across this the other day...(see attached)

http://ethicalstyle.com/wp-content/uploads/marilyn-monroe-swimsuit.jpg



This is the Venus painting I was refering to:
http://www.transcri.be/petites/venusP.jpg



but also,what about these?
http://www.the-romans.co.uk/g4/22.venus.jpg

http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/38/938-004-25AA96F5.jpg


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Mar-2006/39499-Bronzino_Venus_Cupid_and_Time.JPG



http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/venus2.jpg



...the list could go on lol

I also (after watching a documentary)wondered why even back then,women with no pubic hair were seen as more attractive

drpenny

Irish women in general are fat-50% of our population is overweight. Average height for a woman here is only 5 foot 4- that IS midget-like compared to Eastern European sizes! Wake up people! She didn't say anything that was not true. If you are surrounded by heavy people, which we are, it becomes the norm in our frame of reference. But it's still wrong!!!

The Sweeper

drpenny wrote: »

Irish women in general are fat-

That's one...

drpenny wrote: »

50% of our population is overweight.

...two...

drpenny wrote: »

Average height for a woman here is only 5 foot 4

...three...

drpenny wrote: »

- that IS midget-like compared to Eastern European sizes!

...four...

drpenny wrote: »

If you are surrounded by heavy people, which we are, it becomes the norm in our frame of reference.

....and five!

Five interweb factoids that I'm going to presume you've pulled out of your arse unless I get at least two different links to statistical evidence from reliable sources to support each point in your post.

That's impressive going for your first contribution.

Wibbs

conorlechance wrote: »

In Europe we have the 8th highest obesity rate, behind
UK
SLOVAKIA
GREECE
HUNGARY
LUXEMBOURG
CZECH REPUBLIC
SPAIN

In that order. I wonder how we would have compared 20 years ago though.

Good point. The Spanish in particular are facing a big explosion in obese kids. You don't see it in the 20-40 age group yet compared to here, but it will be interesting in 10 years time.

TriceMarie wrote:

Well yes,alot of photos she is quite thin I for a long time pondered how she was supposedly a size 16...however I came across this the other day...(see attached)

http://ethicalstyle.com/wp-content/u...e-swimsuit.jpg

She seems to have varied quite a bit weight wise. Even back then the studios were on her case about it.

This is the Venus painting I was refering to:
http://www.transcri.be/petites/venusP.jpg



but also,what about these?
http://www.the-romans.co.uk/g4/22.venus.jpg

http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb...4-25AA96F5.jpg


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/i...d_and_Time.JPG



http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/venus2.jpg



...the list could go on lol

True but with the exception of the last one(who looks more male, like a michelangelo female nude), the rest are hardly fat. Yes compared to vogue cover models but certainly not obese. They're squarely in the middle/average, though with good figures. The first one has a very nice figure. Great arse and tiny waist. In todays terms, depending on her height if she was bigger than a size 10 I'd be shocked. I'd reckon most of the venus paintings and sculptures and representations of the female nude in art for the last few 1000 years in Europe(if they were the same height) would range in size from 8/10 to 14/16 in todays terms. There are very thin ones and few obese ones. Slender with a bit of meat on the bones seems to be the average. It's certainly a more healthy look compared with the high fashion look, that's for sure. Then again they were mostly painted by men for the largely private appreciation of other men. High class page three kinda thing.:D

I also (after watching a documentary)wondered why even back then,women with no pubic hair were seen as more attractive

Yea, same with a lot of cultures. I think pubic hair has always been seen as an animalistic and male thing for some reason.

Dudess

bambera wrote: »

Because America/Brittan's Next top model were both big money makers I reckon, and she decided to jump on the bandwagon (as a lot of Irish shows do), make a load of cash by spealing out some cock and bull story of doing it to "celebrate Irish women".

Tbh, it seems like you're looking for a reason to get outraged at her. She really didn't say or even insinuate anything insulting.

bambera

Dudess wrote: »

Tbh, it seems like you're looking for a reason to get outraged at her. She really didn't say or even insinuate anything insulting.

I didn't even know she existed until I saw that program so I previously had nothing against her. I'm just calling it as I see it. It's her whole attitude and I stated before, she did make the carbs comment.

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panda100

FFS, four pages dissecting the dimensions of the Irish women. Who cares If Irish women are slightly smaller/more plumper/different body shapes to the rest of Europe.I personally think It would make for a dull, dull world If all women and men looked the same.

Why is society so fixated on how women look?

I've just seen the ad's for this programme but I find it a bit rich the model agent talking about 'inner beauty' and 'personality' when she herelf has more face lifts and botox than Michael Jackson. She can barely move her face?!
Its sad that women feel the need to inject themselves with harmful chemicals in order to reaffirm that they are beautiful