N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [under construction]

350125GO!

*crayon alert!

This is how I've always thought how Cork should develop it's road network long term...(probably similar to most peoples thoughts on here)

A lot more will be needed in public transport investment to go along with this to achieve the goal of a viable sustainable second city.

hans aus dtschl

steeler j wrote: »

ovens to glanmire should be first and the rest in time ,glanmire to youghal is a straight run it would help dunkettle by removing traffic to the north and west of city that's coming from youghal and beyond ,the m71 to ringaskiddy would take port traffic from west cork and Kerry away from the n40 ,dunkettle will be fixed when the current project is done but it will only kick the problem down the n40

I disagree pretty strongly with all of this.
It's not needed. If we need more capacity on the N25 corridor, then dual the N25 and reinstate the train. But this is very far from the most congested route in the city.

Besides all of that Glanmire to Youghal is anything but a straight run: there is a steep line/ridge of E-W hills most of the way, so you either have to cross them to join up with the N25, or you get into even messier terrain around Lisgoold and Dungourney.

Markcheese

Okay I'll bite,
Where exactly do people envision the ovens to glanmire road going?. Its pretty steep and hilly,
And ballinhassig to carrigaline? Instead of the new proposed motorway?
And once all these roads are built, do we ignore the city? Because there's no way to provide public transport for a huge sprawl, and there won't be anyway into the city or anywhere to park,

hans aus dtschl

350125GO! wrote: »

*crayon alert!

This is how I've always thought how Cork should develop it's road network long term...(probably similar to most peoples thoughts on here)

A lot more will be needed in public transport investment to go along with this to achieve the goal of a viable sustainable second city.

This outer ring to Carrigtohill: where is the supposed demand for this coming from?
If from NW Cork, Mallow then there's (an underused) train line for that entire route. There will also be freeflow at Dunkettle.
If the demand is supposed from Carrignavar, then people either go via Dunkettle and the N25 or Watergrasshill and Moanbawn/Longstown.
If demand is from Watergrasshill, then this is not a desire route: Moanbawn/Longstown is.

There is currently no significant demand: I drive and cycle these roads an awful lot and there's no real volume of traffic in the area. Anecdotally, I can tell you that the highest demand routes in that area the morning are from Watergrasshill area through Rathcooney, Upper Glanmire and Glanmire (rat runs TO the Northside) and the opposite in the evening. There is very little demand eastbound from Glanmire. The New Line in Glanmire sees very low traffic Eastbound in the morning and it's nowhere near needing an upgrade.
There's also some (but very little) traffic between Watergrasshill and Carrigtohill.

So to recap: very little E-W traffic in that area on the existing roads.
Some traffic on the N-S axis.

So I don't understand why people are proposing this link. There seems to be a couple of people with the same idea, so clue me in!

hans aus dtschl

Markcheese wrote: »

Okay I'll bite,
Where exactly do people envision the ovens to glanmire road going?. Its pretty steep and hilly,
And ballinhassig to carrigaline? Instead of the new proposed motorway?
And once all these roads are built, do we ignore the city? Because there's no way to provide public transport for a huge sprawl, and there won't be anyway into the city or anywhere to park,

I presume by "Ovens to Glanmire" they must just mean both NRR W and E sections?
Because anything more than that would be lunacy: effectively declaring the NRR design a failure, before it's even designed.

Ballinhassig to Carrigaline might actually happen. Unfortunately. Because Carrigaline is staying County, and County wants to promote sprawl.

350125GO!

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

This outer ring to Carrigtohill: where is the supposed demand for this coming from?
If from NW Cork, Mallow then there's (an underused) train line for that entire route. There will also be freeflow at Dunkettle.
If the demand is supposed from Carrignavar, then people either go via Dunkettle and the N25 or Watergrasshill and Moanbawn/Longstown.
If demand is from Watergrasshill, then this is not a desire route: Moanbawn/Longstown is.

There is currently no significant demand: I drive and cycle these roads an awful lot and there's no real volume of traffic in the area. Anecdotally, I can tell you that the highest demand routes in that area the morning are from Watergrasshill area through Rathcooney, Upper Glanmire and Glanmire (rat runs TO the Northside) and the opposite in the evening. There is very little demand eastbound from Glanmire. The New Line in Glanmire sees very low traffic Eastbound in the morning and it's nowhere near needing an upgrade.
There's also some (but very little) traffic between Watergrasshill and Carrigtohill.

So to recap: very little E-W traffic in that area on the existing roads.
Some traffic on the N-S axis.

So I don't understand why people are proposing this link. There seems to be a couple of people with the same idea, so clue me in!

Not needed now but will be in 50years. It's a bypass to the currently overused bypass.

With the projected growth of north cork city you couldn't keep funneling all traffic and goods through the tunnel/Douglas flyover/ bloomfield / kinsale road roundabout etc. It would be mayhem.
The current N40 would probably be de-trunked at that stage.

50years ago the current south ring would have bypassed Cork city, now it run through the middle of it.

hans aus dtschl

350125GO! wrote: »

Not needed now but will be in 50years. It's a bypass to the currently overused bypass.

With the projected growth of north cork city you couldn't keep funneling all traffic and goods through the tunnel/Douglas flyover/ bloomfield / kinsale road roundabout etc. It would be mayhem.
The current N40 would probably be de-trunked at that stage.

50years ago the current south ring would have bypassed Cork city, now it run through the middle of it.

Perhaps this is more a question of opinion: I'd be appalled if Cork continues with the level of sprawl and car dependency the way we have been doing.
If you take Haarlem for comparison: Cork's got around 20% more people than Haarlem, but more than 5 times the area (20% of the density).

I feel if we're still building ring roads around the ring roads in 50 years, we'll have failed.

steeler j

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I disagree pretty strongly with all of this.
It's not needed. If we need more capacity on the N25 corridor, then dual the N25 and reinstate the train. But this is very far from the most congested route in the city.

Besides all of that Glanmire to Youghal is anything but a straight run: there is a steep line/ridge of E-W hills most of the way, so you either have to cross them to join up with the N25, or you get into even messier terrain around Lisgoold and Dungourney.

forget the n25 for now ,u need a north ring road ,too much traffic using the n40

steeler j

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I presume by "Ovens to Glanmire" they must just mean both NRR W and E sections?
Because anything more than that would be lunacy: effectively declaring the NRR design a failure, before it's even designed.

Ballinhassig to Carrigaline might actually happen. Unfortunately. Because Carrigaline is staying County, and County wants to promote sprawl.

The n40 to Ballinhassig to Carrigaline is to take port traffic off the n40 well the north ring w might be able to join up with the Ballincollig bypass

Frostybrew

steeler j wrote: »

The n40 to Ballinhassig to Carrigaline is to take port traffic off the n40 well the north ring w might be able to join up with the Ballincollig bypass

You don't need to take port traffic off the N40. That's what it's there for. Commuter traffic is what needs to be removed, by improving public transport and giving commuters a viable alternative. Cork's public transport is very inadequate.

steeler j

Frostybrew wrote: »

You don't need to take port traffic off the N40. That's what it's there for. Commuter traffic is what needs to be removed, by improving public transport and giving commuters a viable alternative. Cork's public transport is very inadequate.

wait until all the port traffic is on the n40 ,I drive a truck and only use the m8 to go to the current port ,I turn off at dunkettle

hans aus dtschl

steeler j wrote: »

forget the n25 for now ,u need a north ring road ,too much traffic using the n40

I think most people agree that we need a NRR, both E and W sections.

My only question was around the new spur from Glanmire to the N25: this is the bit I oppose.

But we need to get commuter traffic off the N40. That's the only long-term solution.

steeler j

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I think most people agree that we need a NRR, both E and W sections.

My only question was around the new spur from Glanmire to the N25: this is the bit I oppose.

But we need to get commuter traffic off the N40. That's the only long-term solution.

there just ideas ,park and ride off the main routes to the city

hans aus dtschl

steeler j wrote: »

park and ride off the main routes to the city

Yes and we need more fast cross-city routes too. A lot of N40 traffic is trying to go cross-city E-W and N-S.

I still think there's cheap quick wins to be had from "green corridors" even before the park and rides are implemented.

Park&Rides at:
Blarney - Commuter rail
Dunkettle - Commuter rail
Black Ash - Bus
The new Sarsfields Court / Upper Glanmire / Whites Cross link road(s) - Bus with dedicated corridor

And additional light rail at:
Mahon
Ballincollig

Markcheese

At the moment the n40 isn't that packed outside of rush hours,so trucks can move, (for the moment) so rather than just building more ring roads (that'll turn into local distributor roads), maybe we should try allow more people travel comfortably by public transport,

hans aus dtschl

To both bring this thread back on topic and to keep with the crayon designs...I still don't understand why the pedestrian/cycle design for the new interchange is so poor. A friend pointed out just one better design which I've attached as overlaid on the proposed design.

Proposal being implemented is in red/blue, alternative low-cost proposal in green.

It'd require an underpass or crossing near the new Little Island roundabout at the East, but that's as difficult as it gets.
Crosses 1 road instead of 5 by my count.
Navigates 1 Roundabout instead of 3.
Brings users directly into Eastgate.
Is all on the flat.
Much of it already exists.
No reduction in service quality for existing Ballinglanna users.

You could still implement the red section of their proposal. But that's a desired route for very few people at present.

marno21

Cork getting so much investment these days what's another year for this project anyway

http://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Fears-broadband-overspend-could-hit-crucial-project-to-upgrade-Dunkettle-Interchange-56da209f-408a-4c02-9629-a0fe70a60167-ds

highwaymaniac

marno21 wrote: »

Cork getting so much investment these days what's another year for this project anyway

http://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Fears-broadband-overspend-could-hit-crucial-project-to-upgrade-Dunkettle-Interchange-56da209f-408a-4c02-9629-a0fe70a60167-ds

Hopefully a big backlash for Paschal and co.

Aontachtoir

marno21 wrote: »

http://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Fears-broadband-overspend-could-hit-crucial-project-to-upgrade-Dunkettle-Interchange-56da209f-408a-4c02-9629-a0fe70a60167-ds

Scaremongering. Nothing to suggest that will happen.

Chris_5339762

The original documents that this came from (which are in another thread) are along the lines of "what-ifs" so I don't think this will be delayed on account of the NBP. I hope I'm right.

marno21

I hadn't realised that this scheme hasn't been fully approved to go to construction yet

From Ross

I would like to advise that my Department has recently received the Business Case for the project and it is currently being reviewed and analysed by my Department's Strategic Research and Analysis Division (SRAD). The Business Case will be reviewed in the context of compliance with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform's Public Spending Code and within my own Department's Common Appraisal Framework.

It really is little wonder roads schemes are moving so slowly. Bureaucracy squared

prunudo

I actually thought contracts had been signed and there was a skeleton crew on site already doing propriety work.

Chris_5339762

Prep work is generally a seperate contract in these things, they get the site ready for the main construction work.

The cost/benefit and Business Case is largely a foregone conclusion here, but it just takes so much bloody time.

spacetweek

Unreal. I thought diggers were on site, the scheme was announced for 2019 start - and Ross is still considering the business case. Madness.

marno21

spacetweek wrote: »

Unreal. I thought diggers were on site, the scheme was announced for 2019 start - and Ross is still considering the business case. Madness.

There are diggers on site - doing preliminary work.

It's just the main scheme hasn't been approved yet - I was wondering alright why there was no sod turning ceremony and PR event.

Truckermal

https://www.dunkettletraffic.ie/live/?id=3

Handy link to the live feed camera's..

kub

marno21 wrote: »

There are diggers on site - doing preliminary work.

It's just the main scheme hasn't been approved yet - I was wondering alright why there was no sod turning ceremony and PR event.

Is there any update on this at all?


Between this and the Events Centre it will be intersting how FG get on here in the next GE.

Chris_5339762

Nothing is happening onsite at the moment at all. Regular updates from the newsletter are along the lines of "we are planning things!" at the moment, specifically a major redesign of the tunnel overheight system, which now must be on all of the slip roads to the tunnel, presumably.

In far more important news, there has been a massive explosion in the number of Dunkettle Bunnies. For a while, there were very few, only one or two in the evening, sometimes none. Friday evening at 530pm there were about 10 on the southbound side, of various sizes, and 3 or 4 on the northbound side.

Cork Trucker

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Nothing is happening onsite at the moment at all. Regular updates from the newsletter are along the lines of "we are planning things!" at the moment, specifically a major redesign of the tunnel overheight system, which now must be on all of the slip roads to the tunnel, presumably.

In far more important news, there has been a massive explosion in the number of Dunkettle Bunnies. For a while, there were very few, only one or two in the evening, sometimes none. Friday evening at 530pm there were about 10 on the southbound side, of various sizes, and 3 or 4 on the northbound side.

They were all busy ridin' so hence the explosion in the population

JupiterKid

FG deserve to be completely decimated at the next general election - their incompetence and downright wilful inaction on properly tacking the housing crisis, the massive transport backlog and the mismanagement of the health sector beggar belief...