N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [open to traffic]

DylanQuestion

The plan is for Monohan Road to be extended in between Marina Depot (the former Marquee site) and Pairc Ui Chaoimh. It will eventually go over The Marina and Lee to get to the N8. The issue here is that we’ve already seen opposition elsewhere in the city over flyovers in nature focused areas (such as Ballybrack Woods in Douglas). A cross-river flyover at The Marina is going to have an absolutely huge amount of objections to it

I know it isn’t part of the M28 plans, but does anyone know if there are future plans to widen the N4p between JLT and the Douglas (West) on ramp? I don’t think it’s possible, though, to be honest. A load of houses back directly up against the N40, as does Rochestown Park Hotel and Douglas Court Shopping Centre. At the flyover at Douglas Road, there are houses with bedroom windows a few feet from the N40. There’s nowhere to widen it on either side

In my opinion, they have two options.

The first is to bury the N40 from Bloomfield to after Douglas. I’d absolutely love this, as right now Douglas, Togher and surrounding neighbourhoods feel very disconnected from the rest of the city because of the N40. There also aren’t enough crossings, leading to pinch points at Douglas Road, South Douglas Road and Pouladuff Road.

The second option is to rename the N40 to the Southern Distributor Road, and build a new South Ring that actually encircles the city, and protect land around it so the city won’t just extend beyond it again in the future. For me, the best route would be:

Widen N40 from Mahon to JLT. Bridge from Jacob’s Island area to Rochestown > new road through Monastery Road and fields to south of Garryduff Road > connection with M28 at Carr’s Hill Interchange > new road through fields connecting to N27 Airport Road Roundabout > new road to somewhere around N71 Viaduct > somehow connect to N22 at Ballincollig.

That would be an actual ring road of the city. The planned Southern Distributor, planned to follow the R610, R851 and somehow get over to Sarsfield Road/Bandon Road, is going to require massive widening of narrow and wealthy city roads with mature trees lining them. This is going to be absolute hell to get through planning. A new road through fields would be easier, and people already have the habit of using the N40 versus trying to get them into the habit of the planned SDR

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123751928#Comment_123751928

There’s no need to write instructions on the signs (We don’t do this, because “LEFT” and ”RIGHT” are much better expressed using arrows).

The current design misleads drivers, all that is needed is to change the design. I had a go in this post:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206067#Comment_122206067

hans aus dtschl

Slightly separate topic but that little bit of "refuge" lane on the left as you exit the tunnel northbound needs better markings. Hatch the whole thing or put in plastic wands or something. I've seen many people veer into it by mistake thinking it's the start of the slip lane ahead. Which also wouldn't be as much a problem if it didn't narrow so much.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123755352#Comment_123755352

This is happening because the signage tells drivers to drive there. The arrow pointing at the bottom-left corner of the sign means “your lane starts here”. For double trouble, the same type of arrow is used incorrectly again at the other side, telling Dublin drivers to enter what is actually a median crossover area.

The only correct use is about 100 metres further north to indicate the start of the M8 sliproad.

I can only assume that the signage here was intended to be mounted further north, where the actual lanes begin, but it was then replaced by the “butterfly” board at the Dublin sliproad, and the design was just cut-and-pasted back to the tunnel mouth without any change in information.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123755485#Comment_123755485

Exactly yes, it is causing confusion. It perhaps wouldn't be as messy if there wasn't some kind of lane looking like it was available!

DylanQuestion

I wonder is the sign right outside the mouth of the tunnel even needed? You don't have much time to read it, let alone make a manouvre based on the sign. The ones further away are probably better

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123755708#Comment_123755708

A sign is needed on exit for confirmation that you’re in the correct lane (to prevent people hopping lanes then hopping back). Unfortunately the sign that is there doesn’t do the job, and creates confusion.

DylanQuestion

I also think it’s just too much information on it. Little Island and especially Limerick aren’t necessary, in my opinion. It should just be City Centre, Waterford and Dublin on that initial sign, as well as the various road numbers (N8, M8, N20, N25 and maybe R623 or whatever it is)

D.L.R.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123755485#Comment_123755485

No this is a national problem, signage placed too late. Every motorway I've been on in ROI. Dopey planning regs.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123756651#Comment_123756651

Every motorway sign is badly placed? Or… perhaps, just perhaps, you don’t understand what the signs are actually telling you? Here’s what you see coming up to every motorway junction in this country.

1 km out: diagram sign with junction number and destinations
500 m out: repeat of 1 km sign, optionally with additional information.
300, 200, 100 m: countdown markers to start of exit ramp
0 m: Overhead gantry showing start of exit ramp, junction number and destinations
At the gore of the exit ramp: finger-post sign “Exit / Amach” with the exit number.

This pattern is consistently applied across every motorway in the country. There are no “late” signs on the motorways here. Additionally, where junctions are further apart, you will also get an extra advance direction sign at 2 km: “Next exit: 2km”, with the next junction number and its destinations presented as a list just to wake you up.

I don’t know where you’ve been driving, but that’s identical to what Germany does, and France, and the UK (If you’ve ever wondered about those odd “2/3 mile” and “1/3 mile” distances on some UK motorway signage - these signs are placed at 1,000 and 500 metres from the junction, respectively, in preparation for an eventual metrication of the UK road network that never happened).

The rules of the road book explains the difference between finger-post signs (pointy on the left or right, means “this is the junction!”) and a rectangular sign with an arrow on it (means “there is a junction ahead”). These are not a uniquely Irish invention: they’re used across Europe.

I’m complaining about the signs at Dunkettle because they’re an anomaly: our main-road signage is actually pretty good these days; but these particular signs just don’t meet that standard.

Jayuu

I made a slightly different suggestion for that M8 sign which was based on what you get for Junction 3 exit of the M50 where Malahide traffic needs to get into the right hand land to go straight through to the roundabout. Whatever solution you go for there really is a simple fix which is to remove the M8 directional sign from the left-hand lane.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122210250#Comment_122210250

Looking at the design I came up with it could be improved further by putting all of the M8 Dublin text into a blue patch.

niloc1951

Another crash this morning 🙄

I felt safer in the 25km Lærdal Tunnel than I do in the few hundred meters long JLT

Chris_5339762

Was todays crash a rear ending in the right lane? I was through before it happened but with the schools coming back and the darkness creeping in it won't be long before things get worse.

Hopefully the M28 works will stick a 60kmh hour limit on the general N40/N28 area which will help that area a little.

gooseman12

For me the real frustration is everyone knows what the short term action to mitigate against this is, right?

Variable speed limits with automatic speed and lane camera enforcement.

Then, just like the average speeds on the M7, we get 90+% compliance on speed and lane discipline, and probably overall better traffic flow in general.

But where there's no will there's no way…..

Baldilocks

what about the plastic bollards to prevent lane changing in the tunnel and ~250m either side of it

Chris_5339762

They'd be demolished by traffic during a week - and is there a regulation against that within tunnels for ambulance etc access?

niloc1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123778736#Comment_123778736

A first phase could be double white lines with a severe rumble strip between them. It would cost very little and could be done tomorrow. It would send the message to the uninformed and the chancer that crossing over is definitely not on. Such a separation of lanes would not impede emergency vehicles.

However, if ANPR cameras can be used to prosecute drivers who exceed a speed limit, why can't they be used to prosecute drivers who cross over a continuous white line? Both are listed offences within the same Road Traffic Act, and both carry the same penalty points.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

The current situation is beyond a joke; transit times using the JLT/N40 are now so unpredictable, not to mention the economic cost to the city and its industry of the unnecessary daily delays.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123781399#Comment_123781399

I think we need to better prosecute bad driving behaviour on N40 and M50 in general. Stopping rush-hour traffic to prosecute is counter-productive so even though I hate to advocate for it (surveillance state etc) the cameras and ANPR do make sense. These are core arteries, the cost of even short shutdowns is enormous. Accidents and breakdowns will always happen but we need a less tolerant approach to what appear to be a small minority of systematic rule-breakers.