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Breaking Red Traffic Light

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13

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    #62
    Big Nasty
    Registered Users Posts: 22,080 ✭✭✭✭Big Nasty


    I ain't got no proof but that was always my asumption and experience too Mr. Mustang!


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    #63
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    Saab Ed wrote: »
    As my posts are not exactly known for their political correctness Im not gonna hold back on this one.

    I hate cyclists full stop. Most dont understand road rules and the ones that do dont care anyway and just do what they want , up a path here, through a red light there. My personal favorite is when they all dress up as Lucozade bottles and in their alter egos pretend to be Stephen Roache.....10 abreast in the middle of the fu**ing road. I find a very close drive by whilst on the horn for long periods adjusts this attitude quick pronto. Really hate cyclists.

    You say you hate them, but it reads like you like them :p


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    #64
    68coupe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭68coupe


    nipplenuts wrote: »
    You say you hate them, but it reads like you like them :p


    I laughed my ass off.........that was well spotted. I'm not getting into the bike/car debate, but i can appreciate a good joke...


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    #65
    Fairdues
    Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭Fairdues


    I've seen the same thing in Cork. For some, red is very definitely the new amber.


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    #66
    leeroybrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭leeroybrown


    68coupe wrote: »
    Was this correct? Has there been a change in rules recently? I have always gone when the amber light starts flashing again, and the coast is clear? And every other car I've seen has done the same. I've never seen what the squad car did, happen before?
    Nothing has changed. The motorist can proceed if safe to do so but pedestrians still have the right of way until the the lights turn green.
    stealthyspeeder wrote: »
    You may may work for the traffic corps but you are the one misleading pepole if you are saying that amber = stop, regardless of whether its safe do so or not
    Unfortunately, the poster isn't. The Rules of the Road are only a set of guidelines and if it were to come to court the Road Traffic Act is what applies and it's very clear on the matter.

    As you do point out though the normal sensible interpretation normally used in the real world is that you may proceed if it would actually be dangerous to stop.


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    #67
    stealthyspeeder
    Registered Users Posts: 4,663 ✭✭✭stealthyspeeder


    leeroybrown wrote: »
    Unfortunately, the poster isn't. The Rules of the Road are only a set of guidelines and if it were to come to court the Road Traffic Act is what applies and it's very clear on the matter.

    Why yes it is very clear on the matter! and guess what it says?.......


    (2) A driver facing a traffic light lamp which shows an amber light while no other traffic light lamp (immediately above or below) shows any light, shall not proceed beyond the stop line at that light (or, if there is no such stop line, beyond the light) save when the vehicle is so close to the stop line when the amber light shows that the vehicle cannot safely be halted before crossing the stop line.

    taken from
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a13

    So as I said before, Amber = stop if its safe to do so, anyone who says differently is just plain wrong! (appears even the trafic corps can get it wrong too!)


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    #68
    Hooch
    Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭Hooch


    stealthyspeeder wrote: »
    Why yes it is very clear on the matter! and guess what it says?.......


    (2) A driver facing a traffic light lamp which shows an amber light while no other traffic light lamp (immediately above or below) shows any light, shall not proceed beyond the stop line at that light (or, if there is no such stop line, beyond the light) save when the vehicle is so close to the stop line when the amber light shows that the vehicle cannot safely be halted before crossing the stop line.

    taken from
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a13

    So as I said before, Amber = stop if its safe to do so, anyone who says differently is just plain wrong! (appears even the trafic corps can get it wrong too!)


    Tell you what i'll keep convicting people on this, as is my job and maybe one day, just maybe, you'll run that light and meet a nice collegue, who might be good enough to issue you an fcps. Enojy it.


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    #69
    AugustusMaximus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭AugustusMaximus


    Loads of cyclists constantly go through red lights yet it seems like a far lesser crime for them to do it in comparison to motorists. No idea why, especially considering a car crashing into a cyclists is far more likely to result in death or serious injury over a two car collision.


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    #70
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    stealthyspeeder wrote: »
    So as I said before, Amber = stop if its safe to do so,
    It's very obvious that most pople don't stop on amber.

    Why is it mostly 'not safe' to do so?

    Are people not driving safely?


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    #71
    podcastireland
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭podcastireland


    and what part of your post isn't horse ****.

    I cycle and drive (as many cyclists do). I don't break red lights or engage in any other activities that may endanger my safety.

    I also cycle at weekends 'dressed as a lucozade bottle' as you put it, and have had many encounters with drivers like you who decide that having been held up for 20 or 30 seconds that driving very close to me will 'teach me a lesson'.

    I have never seen cyclists cycling 10 abreast ! But remember two abreast is not illegal according to current legislation - perhaps you don't understand the rules of the road as well as you think you do!

    Just bear in mind that should you hit the cyclist whose attitude you are trying to adjust they will come off a lot worse than you - so perhaps a little consideration for other road users safety would be in order.


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    #72
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    stealthyspeeder wrote: »
    Why yes it is very clear on the matter! and guess what it says?.......


    (2) A driver facing a traffic light lamp which shows an amber light while no other traffic light lamp (immediately above or below) shows any light, shall not proceed beyond the stop line at that light (or, if there is no such stop line, beyond the light) save when the vehicle is so close to the stop line when the amber light shows that the vehicle cannot safely be halted before crossing the stop line.

    taken from
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a13

    So as I said before, Amber = stop if its safe to do so, anyone who says differently is just plain wrong! (appears even the trafic corps can get it wrong too!)

    Amber = Stop, unless it is unsafe to do so.
    A subtle but important difference.


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    #73
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,267 ✭✭✭markpb


    stealthyspeeder wrote: »
    (2) A driver facing a traffic light lamp which shows an amber light while no other traffic light lamp (immediately above or below) shows any light, shall not proceed beyond the stop line at that light (or, if there is no such stop line, beyond the light) save when the vehicle is so close to the stop line when the amber light shows that the vehicle cannot safely be halted before crossing the stop line.

    The word shows means when the amber light comes on for the first time. If you are crossing the white line when the amber light comes on, you can continue. Behind that you should be able to see the light changing and come to a safe stop. If you can't stop, you were crossing a junction at speed which is against the law - green light means proceed with caution, not proceed at full whack.


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    #74
    Pedro K
    Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Pedro K


    Omcd wrote: »
    AFAIK you can proceed to turn right on a junction after the lights have gone amber/red if you were beyond the stop line (ie on the junction) when the lights turned, and obviously it is safe to do so. However in this case, unless it was the only way to make the turn beacuse of traffic volumes, I would generally stay where I was unless to do so would cause an obstruction, as proceeding on red under such circumstances just doesnt feel right. Maybe it isn't right ?

    Ah ye, once you've crossed the line you're deemed to have passed the traffic lights, and as such you have to complete your manouvere. If you didn't move you'd have the traffic coming at you from one of the side roads then.

    I'm not saying it's right to break a red in this particular circumstance. Just saying it is always done and nearly necessary to maintain a steady flow of traffic. If it wasn't there would be about one car through per light cycle.
    nipplenuts wrote: »
    Amber = Stop, unless it is unsafe to do so.
    A subtle but important difference.

    So to re-iterate
    Pedro K wrote:
    Amber = Stop, unless it is not safe to do so.

    :)


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    #75
    OldmanMondeo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭OldmanMondeo


    Lad's either way an Amber light means STOP, even if it says in the ROTR or Statue book, unless it's safe to do so. When aproaching Traffic lights, you should always prepare to stop. How many times have you seen kids run across the road once they see the green man? how many times have you seen a cyclist / motorist running a light? Of course you won't stop if a truck is going to run up the arse of you and if a Guard does stop anyone for it, more than likely it will be the truck driver for dangerous driving and not you for running a red light.

    The problem is most people see an amber as an excuse to continue through a junction / crossing, when in fact they should stop. Thinking that they will get away with running the junction by saving it would have been unsafe to stop. You are meant to drive to suit the conditions not the other way around.


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    #76
    stealthyspeeder
    Registered Users Posts: 4,663 ✭✭✭stealthyspeeder


    nice guy always wrote: »
    Tell you what i'll keep convicting people on this, as is my job and maybe one day, just maybe, you'll run that light and meet a nice collegue, who might be good enough to issue you an fcps. Enojy it.

    You do that, You'll only find me breaking the amber if it was unsafe to stop, if you issue me an FCPS for this, it will be contested, I will win in court, your ignorance of the road traffic act (with regard to traffic lights, will be exposed and I will make a complaint. Enjoy it.
    nipplenuts wrote: »
    Amber = Stop, unless it is unsafe to do so.
    A subtle but important difference.

    Double negative - means the exact same thing, If its safe to stop you stop, if its not, you dont.
    markpb wrote: »
    The word shows means when the amber light comes on for the first time. If you are crossing the white line when the amber light comes on, you can continue. Behind that you should be able to see the light changing and come to a safe stop. If you can't stop, you were crossing a junction at speed which is against the law - green light means proceed with caution, not proceed at full whack.

    If you are 5 metres from the light, travelling at 29km/ph in a 30 zone, with a car the advised 2 seconds behind you and the amber light comes on. It would be unsafe to stop for this light. I could do it in my car with its massive brakes but the a van (for example) behind me would crash into the back of me. If the van was not behind me, I would stop.

    So yet again, amber = stop unless its not safe to do so.


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    #77
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,267 ✭✭✭markpb


    stealthyspeeder wrote: »
    If you are 5 metres from the light, travelling at 29km/ph in a 30 zone, with a car the advised 2 seconds behind you and the amber light comes on. It would be unsafe to stop for this light. I could do it in my car with its massive brakes but the a van (for example) behind me would crash into the back of me. If the van was not behind me, I would stop.

    Which clichè should I roll out.... lets go with "the speed limit is a limit, not a target". Just because the limit is 30kph does not mean you should be doing that speed through a junction. Green means proceed with caution, it does not mean proceed with abandon. If you're not slowing down and preparing to stop suddenly, you're not driving safely.

    In any event, this is not a situation that happens regularly. What actually happens in cities, is the traffic slows down and then three or four cars proceed through an amber (or red) light long after the amber has first shown. This has nothing to do with stopping safely and everything to do with ignoring the lights. It is selfish drivers like this who cause traffic authorities to schedule stupidly long all-stop phases in between light sequences - they count on several people still being in the junction after the lights have gone red.


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    #78
    OldmanMondeo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭OldmanMondeo


    markpb wrote: »
    Which clichè should I roll out.... lets go with "the speed limit is a limit, not a target". Just because the limit is 30kph does not mean you should be doing that speed through a junction. Green means proceed with caution, it does not mean proceed with abandon. If you're not slowing down and preparing to stop suddenly, you're not driving safely.

    Think his name sums it up....;)


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    #79
    stealthyspeeder
    Registered Users Posts: 4,663 ✭✭✭stealthyspeeder


    markpb wrote: »
    Which clichè should I roll out.... lets go with "the speed limit is a limit, not a target". Just because the limit is 30kph does not mean you should be doing that speed through a junction. Green means proceed with caution, it does not mean proceed with abandon. If you're not slowing down and preparing to stop suddenly, you're not driving safely.

    If you think driving at 29 in a 30 approaching the lights is driving with "abandon" then I think our abilities to control a car are very different in relation to what you can do safely and what I can do safely. I dont think we will be able to find common any ground on which to evaluate when it is safe or unsafe to break an amber light.


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    #80
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,437 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    OK, so I'm 10 metres away from the stop line. How fast should I be going to be able to stop in time should the amber light come on? What if I'm 5 metres away, 4 metres, 3 metrres, 2 metres, 1 metre away? Do you see where I'm going with this?

    In other words, to say everyone should always be travelling at a speed such that they can always safely come to a complete stop the very microsecond the amber light comes on is patent nonsense and defies the laws of mathematics and physics. If you follow this to it's logical conclusion, this means they'd be travelling at close to 0 km/h when they're almost at the line, and in addition effectively renders the whole amber light phase pointless.

    In practice it's not just about not being to stop if it's safe to do so (or unsafe not to do so for the nitpickers), it's about actually being able to stop at all, or being able to stop in a controlled manner. And unless you have a magic car with brakes that can stop you effortlessly from any speed in 0 metres stopping distance, I'm afraid that wil result in people crossing amber lights.

    Maybe a bit less nitpicking with the syntax of the RotR and the relevant statutes, and a little more common sense would be in order here. I'm not saying that what happens here regularly with traffic streaming through junctions long after the light has gone red should be condoned, of course not, but just because that happens it's not really on to start targetting people who cross an amber light fractions of a second after it goes on.


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    #81
    BrianD3
    Registered Users Posts: 8,322 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    If anyone is having difficulty understanding the pupose of an amber light and the obligations of road users when it comes to stopping at amber lights I'd suggest they go back and read this post:
    Alun wrote:
    Not really ... I mean, mathematically speaking if you're never, ever going to drive through an amber light under any circumstances, the only safe way to approach any traffic light is for you to reduce your speed asymptotically to zero as you approach the light, regardless of it's current status. In other words, the closer you get to the light, the slower you'd have to go to be able to stop in time if it changed to amber, until you were so close you'd be going at walking pace and then a complete stop. Not really a viable solution, I think you'll agree.

    That's why the amber light phase is there .. to allow you to drive through if you're so close that it would be dangerous, or more relevantly virtually impossible for you to stop in time. If it was actually illegal to drive through an amber light under any circumstances, then their whole raison d'etre would have to be called into question.
    In conjunction with this post
    stealthyspeeder wrote:
    Why yes it is very clear on the matter! and guess what it says?.......


    (2) A driver facing a traffic light lamp which shows an amber light while no other traffic light lamp (immediately above or below) shows any light, shall not proceed beyond the stop line at that light (or, if there is no such stop line, beyond the light) save when the vehicle is so close to the stop line when the amber light shows that the vehicle cannot safely be halted before crossing the stop line.

    taken from
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/...zsi294y1964a13


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    #82
    McSpud
    Registered Users Posts: 612 ✭✭✭McSpud


    nice guy always wrote: »
    Hope you dont take offense, its not intended, what a childish statement.

    Fatal serious enough for you. More than once, sorry to say.

    Fair comment. I didn't mean it like that. Just noticing oin recent years so many people so blatant about breaking the red light without any thought of cponsequences.


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    #83
    Hooch
    Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭Hooch


    McSpud wrote: »
    Fair comment. I didn't mean it like that. Just noticing oin recent years so many people so blatant about breaking the red light without any thought of cponsequences.

    Agreed, but thats what you get when you have the mentality that some posters have out on the road mate.:rolleyes:


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    #84
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    nice guy always wrote: »
    Agreed, but thats what you get when you have the mentality that some posters have out on the road mate.:rolleyes:
    hay-be-nice-emokitteh-is-sensitive.jpg


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    #85
    Hooch
    Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭Hooch


    kbannon wrote: »
    hay-be-nice-emokitteh-is-sensitive.jpg

    :D

    Ok back on topic so.

    Breaking red lights is bad.....very very very BAD:p


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    #86
    stealthyspeeder
    Registered Users Posts: 4,663 ✭✭✭stealthyspeeder


    nice guy always wrote: »
    :D

    Ok back on topic so.

    Breaking red lights is bad.....very very very BAD:p

    Except if the Emergency services need let through!! :D:D lol!


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    #87
    Hooch
    Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭Hooch


    stealthyspeeder wrote: »
    Except if the Emergency services need let through!! :D:D lol!

    Ya its important to get back to the station before 2.....the supt wont give any overtime if were late:p:D


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    #88
    highdef
    Registered Users Posts: 6,194 ✭✭✭highdef


    cyclopath2001 wrote: »
    It would seem that there's a lot of unsafe driving going on then. At any junction, regardless of a green light, one should always be cautious. But from what I've seen many drivers who could stop quite safely on amber, do not. The excuse of 'truck tailgating me' is an invention. It's no wonder, so many cyclists don't accept criticism from drivers.

    For example, I was at a traffic light junction today (in Clontarf), there's separate signal for straight-only and for right-only. The signal is showing green for straight-only and red for right-only, there's a pedestrian crossing active. FOUR cars drove through and turned right.

    It's right next to a Garda station too.

    I know this junction well, cyclopath. The amount of cars that break the light turning from Clontarf Road to Alfie byrne is unreal. I have had cars overtake me at this traffic light before. I once had a car behind me who started flashing his lights, gesturing and honking his horn at me. Light was red so it was reasonable to think that there must be a problem with my car. I get out of my car, approach the driver behind and before I get close, he's shouting out the window ordering me to fcuking move and there's nothing coming the other way. I tell him the light is red and ask if he is colour blind or is unaware that red means STOP but this seems to anger him further and he calls me all sorts of names under the sun. I call him a stupid blind ignorant selfish gobsh!te and walk calmy back to my car and my filter light changes to green after another 15 or 20 seconds and I was on my again. I wonder if he'd have behaved the same if there had been a guard about!

    The entrance into Northwood, Santry from ballymun Road outbound is also notorious for red light breaking.


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    #89
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    nice guy always wrote: »
    Breaking red lights is bad.....very very very BAD
    And breaking amber lights is just bad.
    alun wrote:
    In other words, to say everyone should always be travelling at a speed such that they can always safely come to a complete stop the very microsecond the amber light comes on is patent nonsense and defies the laws of mathematics and physics. If you follow this to it's logical conclusion, this means they'd be travelling at close to 0 km/h when they're almost at the line, and in addition effectively renders the whole amber light phase pointless.
    You're exagerrating the situation. If one car is so close to the stop line, he can't stop without it being unsafe, it's usually understandable, but the three or four following? Give me a break.


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    #90
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,437 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    cyclopath2001 wrote: »
    You're exaggerating the situation.
    No I'm not .. I was replying to one of the posts by one of our supposedly resident AGS members (if that's indeed who they really are) that the only circumstances under which he would excuse a car passing an amber light was if he was ON the line at the point at which the light changed. I was just pointing out that this was patent nonsense, and using a mathematical argument to make my point.
    If one car is so close to the stop line, he can't stop without it being unsafe, it's usually understandable, but the three or four following? Give me a break.
    Where did I (or anyone else) ever say this wasn't acceptable? If you're driving behind the vehicle in front observing the stopping distance, then you should be able to stop for the lights as well, even if he crosses the amber light.


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    #91
    Dave147
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭Dave147


    I was going to my girlfriends house one night and was running a small bit late, was at traffic lights and waiting for them to change, so I see the corresponding lights go amber, then red and I start to move, and wouldn't you know it - with no pedestrians around the green man flashes! Obviously someone had pressed it and crossed anyway, very annoying :(

    Sure wouldn't you know a paddy wagon was just coming around the corner (if anybody is from Cork they might know the lights, its the intersection between Noonans rd and Gillabbey street in Cork) of course I committed myself and gone through so the blue lights came on. I stopped down the road and apologised and the guard checked everything, all of which was in order. He said I'd get an 80 euro fine (no problem , I deserve it) and 0 points, thank god. Well over a month ago and heard nothing since.

    1. Do you think he's left me off perhaps due to the misfortune of a non existent pedestrian? ;)

    2. Are there points for breaking a red light?

    *sorry if post was horrible to read, blame the iPhone :)


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