Faking religon for church wedding

hobochris

HI all,

Just a quick question I just want to get peoples views on:

Would you fake being catholic or even get baptized If your partner wanted to have a church wedding?

Personally, I have no religious belief's (I'm a man of science; I'll believe when there is concrete proof), But having been thinking about this for a while and I'm not sure if I would go through the notions of pretending to be religious to get married In a church. But, at the same time I love my GF, so If she wanted a church wedding I'm not sure what Id do...


I was never baptized, My mother wanted me to have the choice of religion or none. so its not a case of being a fake catholic as alot of people are..

I would need to go through the baptism thing as I believe you have to produce a baptism cert.


Has anyone any thoughts or opinions? or has anyone been in a similar situation? All opinions welcome religious or not.

Dades

You might find some info on this thread here.

Also I seem to remember a thread in the Christianity forum too about whether a non-believer could get married in a church, if you want to ask or do a search there.

While I bit my lip and got married in a church - I would definitely have drawn the line at getting baptised to have to do so. (That was done before I could speak ).

nobodythere

Why would you lie about your religious beliefs.... hate to quote from the bible on the A&A forum but this passage is too appropriate:


"You aren't one of this man's disciples too, are you?" she asked Peter.
He replied, "I am not." It was cold, and the servants and officials stood around a fire they had made to keep warm. Peter also was standing with them, warming himself. John 18:15

eoin5

hobochris wrote: »

I would need to go through the baptism thing as I believe you have to produce a baptism cert.

Not in Vegas I'd say, just a suggestion

Rev Hellfire

grasshopa wrote: »

Why would you lie about your religious beliefs....

I would have thought thats obvious, to get what you want.
We got married in a registry office and it was fine, but I can understand the desire some people have for the pomp and ceramony which you get from a religious wedding.

Either way you can still get married in a catholic church as long as one party is a catholic, I'm sure your PP could provide more accurate details than some randoms on the interswebs.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I used to say I'd go along with it but after being at a wedding I wouldn't. You have to promise the church you'll bring your kids up Catholic. The priest was a cool guy and I'd hate to have hold a straight face whilst doing that. I haven't been to Protestant/Islamic wedding but I'd imagine there's some similar deal.

That said, the church is a good starter for the wedding party, I reckon there's a niche in the market for a church like building where you get married, maybe instead of a service a few people get up and tell anecdotes/jokes etc. Then have a space outside for photos.

Goduznt Xzst

hobochris wrote: »

has anyone been in a simulator situation?

Wait, hold the phone, they can simulate what it would be like to get married in a Catholic Church now? Awesome!

On another note, sure why not, if the woman you love has her heart set on a Church wedding then do it for her. Heck, do everything the woman you love wants. At the end of it all, you'll regret the things you didn't do for the ones you love, not the things you did.

sink

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

At the end of it all, you'll regret the things you didn't do for the ones you love, not the things you did.

Depends on whether the one you love is an acrotomophile.

pts

sink wrote: »

Depends on whether the one you love is an acrotomophile.

touché!

Rb

Just say No and spend the 20k-50k on something nicer (such as a round the world trip) for the two of you?

Mena

I was lucky, herself and I both wanted to get married on a beach, under the sun, with a huge BBQ going for all the guests. None of this church malarky for us.

If it had been different, and she'd wanted one, my gut tells me I would have said no way, but I guess it all depends on how insistent she would have been. Luckily for me I never had to find out because frankly, I can think of very little worse than being dragged through a church for a wedding ceremony.

Gambler

Just to clear up a few misconceptions:

1. You don't have to both be christian to get married in a christian church. One person does but when I got married last June in a church I officially designated myself as agnostic (I'm atheist and the celebrant knew this but don't have any issue with being considered agnostic as far as the bishop is concerned, they are nearly the same anyway). The only hoop we had to go through was that she had to get a letter of permission from the bishop for us to get married.

2. You don't have to promise to raise your children as christians. This used to be the case but these days the non christian doesn't have to make that promise and the christian is only required to promise to try to raise them as christian as long as this doesn't jeopardise the marriage itself.

This may be different in different denominations but in the RC it was surprisingly easy.. I had a few reservations about getting married in a RC church for all the reasons people have given so far but I was able to get married with no issues.

When it came time for communion I had the option of taking a blessing if I wanted instead of communion but I was also given the option of waving it.

Goduznt Xzst

sink wrote: »

Depends on whether the one you love is an acrotomophile.

lol... well there's always exceptions

Mena wrote: »

Luckily for me I never had to find out because frankly, I can think of very little worse than being dragged through a church for a wedding ceremony.

Me too, but I think if you are the kind of person to not have a problem with your partners religious beliefs, or respect that they have had an idea for a dream wedding since being a child that, rather than trying tear that away from them because of a token principle, you'll accommodate them.

That being said my wife is someone practical, so the pomp of a Church wedding wasn't even considered. But a friend of mine who's agnostic went through the whole Church ceremony for his wife as, even though she also wasn't a practicing Catholic, had a Church in mind to get married in since she was a kid. It was a life dream of hers and he wasn't about to take it away from her.

Tim Robbins

hobochris wrote: »

Personally, I have no religious belief's (I'm a man of science; I'll believe when there is concrete proof), But having been thinking about this for a while and I'm not sure if I would go through the notions of pretending to be religious to get married In a church. But, at the same time I love my GF, so If she wanted a church wedding I'm not sure what Id do...

I was in a similar situation. My wife is a mild Church goer and I am an atheist / humanist.

We went through the various options and the Unitarian Church was the best selection. I didn't have to say anything I didn't believe in, the other "Christian" churches they'll get you to publicly swear to Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit or all three.

Loads of mates got married in Catholic Churches. They are about as Catholic as Jackass or PDN is an atheist. But they didn't have a problem with it. I suppose they were looking at the big picture and didn't mind taking a hit for the team.

In fact, one mate recently got his child baptized and the Priest asked him:
"Do you believe in Satan?"
"Yes"
"Do you believe in God?"
"No"

And the Priest never noticed, so I wouldn't worry about it.
My advice would be if you can stomach it, go for it. Most Priests are decent fellows at the end of the day.

Gambler

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I didn't have to say anything I didn't believe in, the other "Christian" churches they'll get you to publicly swear to Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit or all three.

I got married in a Roman Catholic Church and I didn't have to publicly swear anything of the sort.. Were you baptised as a child by any chance? Might have been because the christians had no claim to my soul? :P

philologos

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Loads of mates got married in Catholic Churches. They are about as Catholic as Jackass or PDN is an atheist. But they didn't have a problem with it. I suppose they were looking at the big picture and didn't mind taking a hit for the team.

Thanks, works so much better with a personal analogy

However, one does have to ask why bother in the first place if you don't believe in it, asides from denying God in a church like your friend did.

hobochris

Jakkass wrote: »

Thanks, works so much better with a personal analogy

However, one does have to ask why bother in the first place if you don't believe in it, asides from denying God in a church like your friend did.

Personally I've no problem taking one for the team and having a church wedding.. I'll do what ever makes herself happy. I just wasn't sure if it could be done or if I'd have to go through the notions.This thread has answered my questions.

philologos

hobochris wrote: »

Personally I've no problem taking one for the team and having a church wedding.. I'll do what ever makes herself happy. I just wasn't sure if it could be done or if I'd have to go through the notions.This thread has answered my questions.

Yes, but why should you have to "take one for the team". Why not just have the secular wedding you are looking for, and then if you come to faith in God, substantiate it with a blessing?

I think people should be honest about their beliefs wherever possible.

Gambler

Jakkass wrote: »

However, one does have to ask why bother in the first place if you don't believe in it, asides from denying God in a church like your friend did.

For me it wasn't about denying god in any way.. I was completely up front and open about my beliefs and worked with the celebrant and my wife to put together a wedding mass that wasn't objectionable to anyone..

For me it was about the public commitment to our relationship and for her and her family we had a catholic ceremony. I was against it at first until I realised it was possible to have a catholic ceremony that didn't ask me to ignore\hide my personal beliefs.

Tim Robbins

Gambler wrote: »

For me it wasn't about denying god in any way.. I was completely up front and open about my beliefs and worked with the celebrant and my wife to put together a wedding mass that wasn't objectionable to anyone..

For me it was about the public commitment to our relationship and for her and her family we had a catholic ceremony. I was against it at first until I realised it was possible to have a catholic ceremony that didn't ask me to ignore\hide my personal beliefs.

The RC Church wasn't really an option for us as my wife is Protestant. I like the way they accomodated you.

Gambler

Tim Robbins wrote: »

The RC Church wasn't really an option for us as my wife is Protestant. I like the way they accomodated you.

Yeah, it probably helped that we both knew the celebrant very well..

Zamboni

I couldn't bring myself to fake religion for a wedding.
So much that I am getting married abroad next month.
Reg office on Mount St just isn't appealing to me

I know in theory since the change in legislation that you can get married outside of a reg office now but in practice the GRO are incredibly strict on where, when and how the service is conducted.

lostexpectation

thanks for the info

Gambler wrote: »

Just to clear up a few misconceptions:

2. You don't have to promise to raise your children as christians. This used to be the case but these days the non christian doesn't have to make that promise and the christian is only required to promise to try to raise them as christian as long as this doesn't jeopardise the marriage itself.

.

sorry explain that again


and are you raising them christian?

lostexpectation

hobochris wrote: »

HI all,
Personally, I have no religious belief's (I'm a man of science; I'll believe when there is concrete proof), But having been thinking about this for a while and I'm not sure if I would go through the notions of pretending to be religious to get married In a church. But, at the same time I love my GF, so If she wanted a church wedding I'm not sure what Id do...

planning to propose? have you asked her about it, and if I presume she said she does want a church wedding, how much is it to do with the big day aesthetics and how much to do with religion.

hobochris

hobochris wrote: »

HI all,

Just a quick question I just want to get peoples views on:

Would you fake being catholic or even get baptized If your partner wanted to have a church wedding?

Personally, I have no religious belief's (I'm a man of science; I'll believe when there is concrete proof), But having been thinking about this for a while and I'm not sure if I would go through the notions of pretending to be religious to get married In a church. But, at the same time I love my GF, so If she wanted a church wedding I'm not sure what Id do...


I was never baptized, My mother wanted me to have the choice of religion or none. so its not a case of being a fake catholic as alot of people are..

I would need to go through the baptism thing as I believe you have to produce a baptism cert.


Has anyone any thoughts or opinions? or has anyone been in a similar situation? All opinions welcome religious or not.

No I wouldn't. I think though I'd have known well before that if we were likely to clash on stuff like that, and if they had strong christian beliefs we might be incompatible anyway. And by then we'd either have broken up or compromised somehow - that said I don't think there's a chance I would ever get married in a church. Luckily my partner is not religious.

bnt

If I found someone insane enough to marry me, our wedding day would be an occasion for total honesty, with no place for fakery or chicanery of any kind. After all, what is a marriage, if not an honest and open commitment to another person? Call me a silly romantic, but I think that if you have to lie or play games on your wedding day, you have pretty much missed the point of getting married in the first place. If practicality is all that matters, why bother with marriage?

PDN

Zamboni wrote: »

I couldn't bring myself to fake religion for a wedding.
So much that I am getting married abroad next month.
Reg office on Mount St just isn't appealing to me

I know in theory since the change in legislation that you can get married outside of a reg office now but in practice the GRO are incredibly strict on where, when and how the service is conducted.

Not really. You just book a nice function room in a hotel (some of the old castles etc are great). Then find a solemniser who is prepared to officiate - some of us, although church ministers, are quite happy to conduct a secular ceremony if requested.

Mickeroo

Jakkass wrote: »

Yes, but why should you have to "take one for the team". Why not just have the secular wedding you are looking for, and then if you come to faith in God, substantiate it with a blessing?

I think people should be honest about their beliefs wherever possible.

If its to make your spouse happy then "taking one for the team" is perfectly acceptable. If my girlfriend had dreamed about a big white wedding in a church all her life then it wouldn't be in my best interests to take that dream away for her for a selfish reason like my beliefs.

In my eyes i could still be honest about my beliefs in this situation and get married in a church, after all to an atheist a church is just a pretty building.

Overheal

I wouldnt mind a church wedding so long as the ceremony reflected the situation as it was, in the same way as other inter-faith marriages are reflected at ceremonies. I would not wish to be misrepresented as a Christian/Jew/Muslim during the union, say. My wife in question would be happier knowing God wasn't lied to and that we (or at the very least she) still received his blessing despite my atheism.

vinchick

I dont see why you would get married in a church anyways, they are creepy.

As far as Im aware you can get married in any public building and there are some very nice ones without iconography or mass.

I have my eye on Dublin City Hall (dream on I know!)

Zamboni

PDN wrote: »

Not really. You just book a nice function room in a hotel (some of the old castles etc are great). Then find a solemniser who is prepared to officiate - some of us, although church ministers, are quite happy to conduct a secular ceremony if requested.

I found the staff in the GRO exceptionally unhelpful.
Maybe I just got the wrong person on the wrong day but I am glad I am going abroad as I've had nothing but help from the registrar.

conlonbmw

- snip -

conlonbmw taking a week's holiday to read the various bits of the charter he just broke.

Dades

Overheal

vinchick wrote: »

I dont see why you would get married in a church anyways, they are creepy.

They can be creepy. I find it depends on the time and place and occassion. School communions were always a bit creepy. On the other hand I thought my stepmother's funeral mass was quite fascinating.

Gambler

lostexpectation wrote: »

thanks for the info

Gambler wrote: »

Just to clear up a few misconceptions:

2. You don't have to promise to raise your children as christians. This used to be the case but these days the non christian doesn't have to make that promise and the christian is only required to promise to try to raise them as christian as long as this doesn't jeopardise the marriage itself.

sorry explain that again


and are you raising them christian?

Basically you used to have to swear to raise your children as catholics if you wanted to marry a catholic. They changed the rules at some point (not sure what the details are) and now I wasn't required to swear any such thing and my wife had to say that she would make every effort to raise her children as catholics as long as it didn't jeopradise the marriage itself.

We haven't got any kids yet but when we do have kids they more than likely won't be baptised or raised as christians.

philologos

Gambler wrote: »

We haven't got any kids yet but when we do have kids they more than likely won't be baptised or raised as christians.

Isn't that a bit unfair on your wife if she wants to teach them about Christianity and raise them that way?

vinchick

Overheal wrote: »

They can be creepy. I find it depends on the time and place and occassion. School communions were always a bit creepy. On the other hand I thought my stepmother's funeral mass was quite fascinating.

To be honests its the stations of the cross and the pained iconography. Not very romantic.

Genghiz Cohen

Jakkass wrote: »

Isn't that a bit unfair on your wife if she wants to teach them about Christianity and raise them that way?

Wouldn't it be unfair on Gambler is his wife forced him to raise them Catholic?

Dades

Lads, I think this is an issue for gambler and his missis! We're not the RC Church here!

Tim Robbins

Gambler wrote: »

Basically you used to have to swear to raise your children as catholics if you wanted to marry a catholic. They changed the rules at some point (not sure what the details are) and now I wasn't required to swear any such thing and my wife had to say that she would make every effort to raise her children as catholics as long as it didn't jeopradise the marriage itself.

We haven't got any kids yet but when we do have kids they more than likely won't be baptised or raised as christians.

Would you have a problem with your wife bringing the kids to Church / Mass?

philologos

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Wouldn't it be unfair on Gambler is his wife forced him to raise them Catholic?

He doesn't have to do anything. She should have the right to raise her own children Catholic if she wishes however.

Jakkass

Jakkass wrote: »

He doesn't have to do anything. She should have the right to raise her own children Catholic if she wishes however.

He should have the right to raise his own children non catholic if he wishes. She doesn't have to do anything.

philologos

bluewolf: they can both teach their child he one thing and she another. Wouldn't be the most practical, but meh.

Terodil

Jakkass wrote: »

bluewolf: they can both teach their child he one thing and she another. Wouldn't be the most practical, but meh.

I would like to see that poor child.

Why not abstain from indoctrinating that poor kid from the start and give it a CHOICE when s/he comes of age? Is that sooo terrible?

Oh right I forgot, if the kid isn't sprinkled with water a few months after birth it'll end up being poked with hot forks if anything happens...

Zamboni

Jakkass wrote: »

He doesn't have to do anything. She should have the right to raise her own children Catholic if she wishes however.

What about the right of the child to not have it's faith chosen for them?

vibe666

Jakkass wrote: »

bluewolf: they can both teach their child he one thing and she another. Wouldn't be the most practical, but meh.

they could go the whole hog and call their dog "sit" too. :rolleyes:

"come here sit!"

poor kids wouldn't know if they were coming or going and the'd probably trip over the dog too!

seriously though (and back on topic), we're getting married next year in Portugal. We're going over in a cuple of weeks to scout locations, but we've already made plenty of enquiries (i.e. she has) and we can get married in a church without any problems there. she's a non-practicing, barely beleiving catholic and I'm a card carrying atheist and it doesn't seem to be an issue, although we were told that they'd prefer it if i wrote agnostic on the forms when the time comes but seriously, from an atheist point of view what does it matter?

at the end of the day I'll be getting married at the location that feels right and gives us the best wedding pictures.

i woudn't feel any different about getting married in a church being an atheist than i would about getting married on a boat on an imaginary lake if i couldn't swim.

Dades

vibe666 wrote: »

i woudn't feel any different about getting married in a church being an atheist than i would about getting married on a boat on an imaginary lake if i couldn't swim.

What about an imaginary boat on a lake if you couldn't swim?

liamw

Personally, if I had kids I would keep them away from the church and christianity as much as I could. I see it as a cult.

'If one person is delusional they are called insane, if many people are delusional it is called religion'

Let me put it this way. If the Church Of the Flying Spagetti Monster became popular in your particular village, would you have a problem with your kids being brainwashed by it's teachings? Of course you would.

As atheists, we have all managed to step away from this ridiculousness and take a much more reasonable view of the world. I certainly wouldn't want to waste my kids time in learning crap. Teach them facts.

liamw

liamw wrote: »

Personally, if I had kids I would keep them away from the church and christianity as much as I could. I see it as a cult.

aye. I was at a christening the other day. Creepy wasn't in it. Especially the kids' drawings about god etc all over the church when I doubt they had a clue what they were drawing. "we are all sheep", "god is love", etc...
best of all was the declaration "these children belong to the parish now". Came across in less of a community way and more of a creepy way.
shudder.

Zamboni

bluewolf wrote: »

best of all was the declaration "these children belong to the parish now". Came across in less of a community way and more of a creepy way.
shudder.

Better than "these children belong to the parish priest now" but I digress...

Zamboni

Zamboni wrote: »

Better than "these children belong to the parish priest now" but I digress...

Well I meant more of a borg collective kind of way ;P

robindch

bluewolf wrote: »

I was at a christening the other day.

Weird, so was I.

But it wasn't so much creepy as just sad -- perhaps 40 people in the church, and only five or ten (over)doing the responses, with everybody else sitting there, tight-lipped and uncomfortable looking.

Felt really sorry for the very elderly priest who seemed like a decent enough chap, but who was obviously aware of the way that the whole thing was headed. The atmosphere of gloom wasn't helped by the parents forgetting to take the baptism guide away with them, and a small stack of the neo-fascist "Alive!" rags just inside the door.