Bicep Training

bigeasyeah

Hey,
Anyone have any tips or advice for effectively training the bicep muscles?
Ive seemed to have hit a wall as regards training them.
Thanks

slicus ricus

bigeasyeah wrote: »

Hey,
Anyone have any tips or advice for effectively training the bicep muscles?
Ive seemed to have hit a wall as regards training them.
Thanks

Tell us what you do for biceps at the moment and we might be able to help. Also, what do you mean when you say you've hit a wall with it? Is it that you can't up the weight or what?

Brian?

Squats

billyhead

Wide grip pull ups. Hit those back muscles hard and you will train your biceps for added measure;)

bman

billyhead wrote: »

Wide grip pull ups. Hit those back muscles hard and you will train your biceps for added measure;)

Wouldn't close grip pullups be better if it's the biceps he's specifically looking to train?

rubadub

Weighted chinups, and negatives of the same.

slicus ricus

I'm going to be controversial here and suggest: Dumbell curls; ez bar curls; and cable curls at the end with high and reps and slow release. The key to any biceps exercises is form. You have to keep from elbow to shoulder in the same position to avoid recruiting your anterior delts. If you're doing these correctly, you should feel a serious pump in your biceps.

As people have pointed out already, back exercise will work biceps as well at various levels depending on grip position. If you want to isolate biceps though, you can't go too far wrong with the ones in the paragraph above provided you keep strict form. It all depends really on what you're goal is in training biceps.

Ouijaboard

slicus ricus wrote: »

I'm going to be controversial here and suggest: Dumbell curls; ez bar curls; and cable curls at the end with high and reps and slow release. The key to any biceps exercises is form. You have to keep from elbow to shoulder in the same position to avoid recruiting your anterior delts. If you're doing these correctly, you should feel a serious pump in your biceps.

As people have pointed out already, back exercise will work biceps as well at various levels depending on grip position. If you want to isolate biceps though, you can't go too far wrong with the ones in the paragraph above provided you keep strict form. It all depends really on what you're goal is in training biceps.

Agree with the above poster that biceps is all in the form, if you've hit a wall with biceps all the pullups and barbell rows in the world wont sort it out for you. We'll assume you do all the compounds going and have reached a point where arms arent responding anymore, then you really need to isolate them, yes it doesnt go down well with the powerlifters of the forum but thats what you need to do. Try reverse preacher bench ez bar curls and seated incline dumbell curls using the standard 8-12 reps.

Squats wont make your biceps grow, yeah yeah increased test production etc yadda yadda yadda.

itsallaboutheL

if u stop hitting walls it might help..... can't be conducive to bicep building:D




i am such an unconstructive bastard!!

billyhead

They do but this exercise is too easy. Wide grip pull ups with proper form. Wide grip pullups are hard thus you wont see that many people them doing them. Make sure you have your hans placed more then shoulders width o the bar too. Come on don't be a sissy.

bman wrote: »

Wouldn't close grip pullups be better if it's the biceps he's specifically looking to train?

rubadub

billyhead wrote: »

Wide grip pullups are hard thus you wont see that many people them doing them.

Some advise against them due to stress on joints. Many widegrip pullup bars are angled at the ends to lessen this, I find wide grip pullups on a straight bar are hard because it is simply sore on the wrist and since I do not do them much. Like doing bicep curls standing on broken glass is hard!;)

If you see clips on youtube for people going for numbers on pullups many use a fairly wide grip which would suggest it is easier for them. I actually find very close grip pullups far harder than widegrip ones (pullups not chinups).

I find chinups hit the biceps more than pullups. Sometimes I will do a set of heavy negative one arm curls after my chinups.

bman

billyhead wrote: »

They do but this exercise is too easy. Wide grip pull ups with proper form. Wide grip pullups are hard thus you wont see that many people them doing them. Make sure you have your hans placed more then shoulders width o the bar too. Come on don't be a sissy.

I do wide grip (well over shoulder width apart) pullups, but I'm more so doing it for back strength than biceps. I just thought close grip might be better for bicep training.

mrOxymethalone

bigeasyeah wrote: »

Hey,
Anyone have any tips or advice for effectively training the bicep muscles?
Ive seemed to have hit a wall as regards training them.
Thanks

Try taking a week off doing arms,i always found a rest actually helped my progress!

billyhead

They are better bman. They focus more on the biceps. I was just saying it becasue the wide grips work them indirectly. Its just I see a lot of people in the gym and all there interested in is working out their arms (posers thinking the girls will like them more with big arms) when they have absolutely no development in their back or chest. its quite funny actually. Keep with the pull ups.

bman wrote: »

I do wide grip (well over shoulder width apart) pullups, but I'm more so doing it for back strength than biceps. I just thought close grip might be better for bicep training.

bigeasyeah

Thanks for all the help.I needed an extra something in my routine and the few pullups I now do was just what I needed:)

mack32

theres an interesting thing in stuart mc roberts Q+A in this months flex, he says that generally the body will only allow for a small degree of disproportionate muscular development and to build an extra inch on your arms you need to add 10 to 15 pounds of muscle throughout your physique.

so you gotta train everything hard to put size on your biceps. I'd go with deads and squats. 2/3 of your body's total muscle mass is in your hip and thigh structure.

i always considered pull ups as a lat exercise, it definitely works your biceps too but it primarily targets your lats if you do them right.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?Name=Pullups

Belfast 1

slicus ricus wrote: »

I'm going to be controversial here and suggest: Dumbell curls; ez bar curls; and cable curls at the end with high and reps and slow release. The key to any biceps exercises is form. You have to keep from elbow to shoulder in the same position to avoid recruiting your anterior delts. If you're doing these correctly, you should feel a serious pump in your biceps.

As people have pointed out already, back exercise will work biceps as well at various levels depending on grip position. If you want to isolate biceps though, you can't go too far wrong with the ones in the paragraph above provided you keep strict form. It all depends really on what you're goal is in training biceps.

This guy knows his stuff the rest of you guys are talking ****e!

mack32

This guy knows his stuff the rest of you guys are talking ****e!

sure stuart mc robert who has written five well regarded books and has his own columns in a number of bodybuilding mags doesn't know what hes talking about

g'em

Belfast 1 wrote: »

This guy knows his stuff the rest of you guys are talking ****e!

At least put some effort into your re-reg account names...

Banned.

rubadub

mack32 wrote: »

the body will only allow for a small degree of disproportionate muscular development and to build an extra inch on your arms you need to add 10 to 15 pounds of muscle throughout your physique.

Tell that to this guy!;)



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055537524

it may be some genetic thing though...

slicus ricus

Belfast 1 wrote: »

This guy knows his stuff the rest of you guys are talking ****e!

Who in the hell was that guy and why did he have such a strong view on something I posted? Anyways, moving on....

mack32 wrote:

theres an interesting thing in stuart mc roberts Q+A in this months flex, he says that generally the body will only allow for a small degree of disproportionate muscular development and to build an extra inch on your arms you need to add 10 to 15 pounds of muscle throughout your physique.

so you gotta train everything hard to put size on your biceps. I'd go with deads and squats. 2/3 of your body's total muscle mass is in your hip and thigh structure.

I'd definately be inclined to agree with this. Training everything is definately the way to go - in all fairness, biceps are a relatively small muscle group so they should only be a small part of your weekly training program. Why anyone would want disproportionate biceps is beyond me anyway!

Hanley

rubadub wrote: »

Tell that to this guy!;)



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055537524

it may be some genetic thing though...

I only just noticed now, his arms SO big and heavy he needs to use his other one to hold it up :eek:

maxxie

incline seated dumbbell curls do the trick for me

crotalus667

Hanley wrote: »

I only just noticed now, his arms SO big and heavy he needs to use his other one to hold it up :eek:

If that’s the case id say he’s in for some serious problems down the line , if he’s solely been training with his arm supported by a table it’s no wonder he needs to help the supporting muscles :rolleyes:, I wonder what he weight imbalance is surly that sort of imbalance will cause back problems before too long :eek:

crotalus667

bigeasyeah wrote: »

Hey,
Anyone have any tips or advice for effectively training the bicep muscles?

I have a preference to doing them on back day , two reasons 1 a lot of the back movements I tend to use involve the biceps so they are already warm and pretty well pumped 2 this means I can give them the optimum amount of time to recover (saying this I know some one who just doesn’t have it in him to do biceps after back you will just have to try it and see how you get on)

I also like 21's as a finisher (the weight I have to use at that stage look’s pathetic but who care’s ?? by the end of the set if feels like it weighs a ton) , another one I have tried and like was simultaneous dumbbell bicep curls to failure fallowed immediately by alternating db curls (it usually works out a 6-8 simultaneous fallowed by another 4-6 alternating)

bman wrote: »

Wouldn't close grip pullups be better if it's the biceps he's specifically looking to train?

Yes they would , I used to do them at the start of my bicep workout in sets of 4 - 8 ( I am assuming you are talking about palms facing in which is technically a chin up) once rep's hit the 12's they can allways be done weighted

rubadub wrote: »

Some advise against them due to stress on joints.

The current guidelines are hands about a fist outside your shoulder with (afaik it’s also to do with the potential damage to muscle as well as joints ) but the bigger risk is from swinging your body weight out from the bar bringing your self up , the studies that are usually quoted (cant remember where they came from) state that the narrower grip is equally as effective as the wider grip (although I find that hard to believe given the difference in angels of grip but for average joe the difference is incognisant compared to the lessening of the risk of injury )

slicus ricus wrote: »

Why anyone would want disproportionate biceps is beyond me anyway!

that remids me of the synthonal lad's

kumate_champ07

barbell rows with an underhand grip

Brian?

mack32 wrote: »

theres an interesting thing in stuart mc roberts Q+A in this months flex, he says that generally the body will only allow for a small degree of disproportionate muscular development and to build an extra inch on your arms you need to add 10 to 15 pounds of muscle throughout your physique.

so you gotta train everything hard to put size on your biceps. I'd go with deads and squats. 2/3 of your body's total muscle mass is in your hip and thigh structure.

i always considered pull ups as a lat exercise, it definitely works your biceps too but it primarily targets your lats if you do them right.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?Name=Pullups

I've read Charles Poloquin say the same thing at least 50 times, anytime anyone asks him about arm training in fact. Thats why my first reply in this thread was : Squats, they'll build the most mass.

Hanley

briankeating wrote: »

I've read Charles Poloquin say the same thing at least 50 times, anytime anyone asks him about arm training in fact. Thats why my first reply in this thread was : Squats, they'll build the most mass.

I'm sorry but I don't buy it. If you want to get a specific muscle bigger, you HAVE to train it.

I squat more than A LOT of people in TF, probably more than most, but when it comes to the arm department I get bitch slapped by a shocking amount of people in there. Why is this?? Because I don't train them!!! All the mass I have is in my triceps, and tho my biceps are relatively strong, they're tiny.

brianthebard

I concur, I read over and over that heavy back work (ie rows and deads, chins) was enough training for arms to grow, and same with squats and deads for core. While you do experience some growth as a result of this indirect training, its not going to last long and its not anywhere near as efficent. Its almost like saying if you want big legs bench heavy and the leg drive will make them grow-anyone think thats really a substitute for squats?

crotalus667

Hanley wrote: »

I'm sorry but I don't buy it. If you want to get a specific muscle bigger, you HAVE to train it.
.

+1

All you have to do is look at the Olympic competitors and you will see examples of body’s that have developed to be sport specific ,

Brian?

Hanley wrote: »

I'm sorry but I don't buy it. If you want to get a specific muscle bigger, you HAVE to train it.

I squat more than A LOT of people in TF, probably more than most, but when it comes to the arm department I get bitch slapped by a shocking amount of people in there. Why is this?? Because I don't train them!!! All the mass I have is in my triceps, and tho my biceps are relatively strong, they're tiny.

In fairness I never said not to train biceps, all I meant was that if you want to get them to grow you'll need to train a lot more than your arms. I don't see anything wrong with direct arm training, its just that I reckon if you want good results you could well be wasting valuable time doing curls when you could be doing squats, deads, rows, pullups, benchs etc that'll add mass all over.

I see a lot of lads in the gym doing 6-7 excercises for biceps and the same again for triceps, it all seems a bit over the top. I saw one guy supersetting EZ bar preacher curls with DB preacher curls, not a pick on the rest of him.

Do the lads in TF with bigger bi's than you have tiny backs and legs?

brianthebard wrote: »

I concur, I read over and over that heavy back work (ie rows and deads, chins) was enough training for arms to grow, and same with squats and deads for core. While you do experience some growth as a result of this indirect training, its not going to last long and its not anywhere near as efficent. Its almost like saying if you want big legs bench heavy and the leg drive will make them grow-anyone think thats really a substitute for squats?

See above.

I made my point quite badly as usual.

Ouijaboard

mack32 wrote: »

theres an interesting thing in stuart mc roberts Q+A in this months flex, he says that generally the body will only allow for a small degree of disproportionate muscular development and to build an extra inch on your arms you need to add 10 to 15 pounds of muscle throughout your physique.

The whole 10-15 pounds of muscle needed to add an inch to arms is definitely a good rule of thumb in general, and if it helps people realise the fact that compounds have to be a priority for both size and strength. Its not really true in all cases though. Yes you will never have 20" arms on a guy with a 40" chest. The reality is though that unless you have perfect muscle building genetics all over you are eventually going to find that some body part is not really growing in proportion to your strong points. I know one particular guy who has roughly a 47-48 inch chest/back and 15 inch arms and it does look outta proportion, on the flip size i've seen people with 42inch chest/back and 16 inch arms and that looks out of proportion as well. Even though I'm not sure if both are within mr mc roberts tolerances for disproportionate muscle growth.

Alot of it comes down to genetics, from a size point of view, you will need seriously good arm building genetics for them to keep growing in proportion to chest/back just from indirect compound training alone and often a person cant know exactly how their arms will fill out until they have seriously hit the big compounds for at least a year, often longer.

If you want to build big arms then all isolation is rather pointless, you will hit a wall fairly quickly and have feck all strength and size gains in the main muscles to show for it. All compounds no isolation will keep you going much longer, you will have excellent strength and size in larger muscle groups along with good growth in indirect muscles, For a while! A mix of prioritising compounds and isolation after is the best of both worlds really for size and strength. Most people realise this. I have to laugh on some forums when someone asks if it would be alright to add in couple of sets of barbell curls or lying triceps extensions to the end of the starting strength routine and they get torn apart as if its tantamount to defacing the ten commandments handed down from moses.


Sometimes with training it takes a while to figure out what works for you. I've also talked to a bloke who became very strong on the bench press and hit it from every angle with all sorts of reps but found it very difficult to add real mass to his chest (which he wanted along with the strength!), it always hit his triceps and anterior delts and they in turn were massive in proportion to his chest. It wasn't until he started doing dumbbell flyes from all angles that his chest started growing.

Hanley

briankeating wrote: »

In fairness I never said not to train biceps, all I meant was that if you want to get them to grow you'll need to train a lot more than your arms. I don't see anything wrong with direct arm training, its just that I reckon if you want good results you could well be wasting valuable time doing curls when you could be doing squats, deads, rows, pullups, benchs etc that'll add mass all over.

Do the lads in TF with bigger bi's than you have tiny backs and legs?

Nah I know you didn't, but the general feeling in this thread has been that NOT directly training them and doing other stuff's the best way forward. Lets be real tho, training biceps isn't that hard, it won't impact reocvery elsewhere and only takes 15-20 mins once or twice a week, so there's no reason NOT to train them if you want big arms. I haven't trained them because I'm not that arsed. Well, I would like some gunzzz but I don't care enough to actually do anything about it.

The guys I was referring to in TF (and there's a few in Hercs too) would actually be quite bird legged, and while they might have a bit of muscle on their back, it wouldn't be the dense thick kind.

I see a lot of lads in the gym doing 6-7 excercises for biceps and the same again for triceps, it all seems a bit over the top. I saw one guy supersetting EZ bar preacher curls with DB preacher curls, not a pick on the rest of him.

I fully agree that this is stupid. I guess we're signing from the same hymn sheet, we're just on different songs!

Ouijaboard

Hanley wrote: »

The guys I was referring to in TF (and there's a few in Hercs too) would actually be quite bird legged, and while they might have a bit of muscle on their back, it wouldn't be the dense thick kind.

You should tell em that they're not really training until they've experienced the torture of coming down a stairs after a heavy sets of squats, that and the feeling that your actually going to vomit after finishing the last set are what make you feel like alive and you've actually achieved something

brianthebard

briankeating wrote: »

In fairness I never said not to train biceps, all I meant was that if you want to get them to grow you'll need to train a lot more than your arms. I don't see anything wrong with direct arm training, its just that I reckon if you want good results you could well be wasting valuable time doing curls when you could be doing squats, deads, rows, pullups, benchs etc that'll add mass all over.

I see a lot of lads in the gym doing 6-7 excercises for biceps and the same again for triceps, it all seems a bit over the top. I saw one guy supersetting EZ bar preacher curls with DB preacher curls, not a pick on the rest of him.

Do the lads in TF with bigger bi's than you have tiny backs and legs?



See above.

I made my point quite badly as usual.

I see what you mean, I just thought the prescription of squats for arms was going a bit far with the compound exercises for big arms line. I know it drives me crazy to see personal trainers in the uni gym showing guys how to do concentration curls and **** when they really need to show them some proper moves.

FunkZ

cougar1 wrote: »

the torture of coming down a stairs after a heavy sets of squats

Be honest, that's what we love about it! :cool:

cardio,shoot me

man the spiral staircases in my gym are a bitch

Brian?

Hanley wrote: »

Nah I know you didn't, but the general feeling in this thread has been that NOT directly training them and doing other stuff's the best way forward. Lets be real tho, training biceps isn't that hard, it won't impact reocvery elsewhere and only takes 15-20 mins once or twice a week, so there's no reason NOT to train them if you want big arms. I haven't trained them because I'm not that arsed. Well, I would like some gunzzz but I don't care enough to actually do anything about it.

The guys I was referring to in TF (and there's a few in Hercs too) would actually be quite bird legged, and while they might have a bit of muscle on their back, it wouldn't be the dense thick kind.



I fully agree that this is stupid. I guess we're signing from the same hymn sheet, we're just on different songs!

I agree completly, there's nothing wrong with spending 15-20 minutes a week on your arms at all.

I think we might have been singing the same song, but you can carry a tune

slicus ricus

briankeating wrote: »

I agree completly, there's nothing wrong with spending 15-20 minutes a week on your arms at all.

That's all I ever do anyhow, anything more than that is a waste of time imo. I was replying to the OP on the basis that he only spends 15-20 mins a week on biceps and wanted to know what exercises would be the best to do in those 15-20 mins.

Ouijaboard

FunkZ wrote: »

Be honest, that's what we love about it! :cool:

yep that looks about right, probably the best way to get down. I've learned to incorporate a lot of trap and neck work to absorb some of the impact at the bottom, works fairly well!