If we build a nuclear station, where should we put it?

SeanW

SeanW - you mentioned elsewhere on this thread that you are an environmentalist and out of idle curiosity I was wondering which if any environmental organisations you belong/or have belonged to? What is your agenda?
None. and I have no connections whatsoever to the nuclear industry (or any other energy sector) if that's what you're looking for.

I have never supported coal as a source of power...
By default, coal provides 39% of all world electrical power needs, contributing to a ~69% or more total by fossil fuels.

I have only recommend Gas... which I believe is a better option for ireland...
... and hands our national soveirgnty over to the Russians, as well as putting us one pipeline disruption, one political row with Russia, or one other problem with day-to-day dependance on a 3000km pipeline away from total darkness ... that's really clever.

I have no hidden agenda and am comfortable playing the chernobyl card...
Then you don't know what happened at Chernobyl. If you did, you would not be comfortable playing that card at all.

Let me try to explain the question of relevance by analogy, since you obviously haven't got a clue. Let's compare nuclear power, Chernobyl, modern Western nuclear programmes, and groups like Greenpeace to firearms, a crazy gangster in Limerick with an M60 machine gun, an old farmer in Co. Leitrim with a shotgun, and a theoretical organisation called "Streetpeace."

Let's say our Leitrim farmer uses his shotgun primarily in the running of his farm - scaring away birds and rabbits from his crops, putting down an animal that gets wounded and is in pain, or a dog that attacks a neighbors herd, perhaps does a bit of hunting as well. He also keeps it for a little bit of self defense, but being an easygoing old man, he doesn't expect or hope to need it for that purpose.

One day, our Madman from Moyross gangster does an overdose of methamphetamines, grabs his M60 and goes on a big shooting spree. Kills, lets say 100 people and injures 200 more. Now let's say "Streetpeace" gets in on the act, says "all guns are bad, we must take away all the guns from all the people" including the Leitrim farmers shotgun. To hype up the case for this, they point to the Madman of Moyross and his M60, perhaps showing pictures of some children that got shot, to score cheap emotional points.

I assume you would not dispute that a rational person is going to say "now hold on a second, you're not comparing like with like ..."

The same applies to Chernobyl vis-a-vis nuclear power.

Judgement Day

So you're not really much of an environmentalist are you? I have never met anybody before who claims to be an environmentalist but who is not or never has been in any environmental organisation of any kind. You sound more like a spokesman/apologist for the nuclear industry. Anyway with your level of nuclear expertise you are clearly wasted in the bogs of Longford.

djpbarry

Judgement Day wrote: »

So you're not really much of an environmentalist are you? I have never met anybody before who claims to be an environmentalist but who is not or never has been in any environmental organisation of any kind. You sound more like a spokesman/apologist for the nuclear industry. Anyway with your level of nuclear expertise you are clearly wasted in the bogs of Longford.

Let's not personalise the debate please.

djpbarry

SeanW wrote: »

I have only recommend Gas... which I believe is a better option for ireland...
... and hands our national soveirgnty over to the Russians, as well as putting us one pipeline disruption, one political row with Russia, or one other problem with day-to-day dependance on a 3000km pipeline away from total darkness ...

Pretty unlikely considering Ireland sources it’s gas from the North Sea. There’s also potential for us to produce our own natural gas (biogas) to reduce our dependence on imports.

slagger

djpbarry wrote: »

Pretty unlikely considering Ireland sources it’s gas from the North Sea. There’s also potential for us to produce our own natural gas (biogas) to reduce our dependence on imports.

How long is the supply from the North sea going to last?

http://constructireland.ie/Articles/Renewable-Energy/Why-Ireland-is-unprepared-for-the-impact-of-gas-peak.html


http://constructireland.ie/MyBlog/MyBlog/Could-Ireland-be-hit-by-Russia-s-gas-supply-cuts.html

John mac

next to the gas terminal in north Mayo.

Macha

As energy storage for renewables improves and a European supergrid is created, the concept of a need for a baseload will disappear.

Renewables are growing world wide 3 times faster than nuclear.

djpbarry

slagger wrote: »

How long is the supply from the North sea going to last?

I don't know. I'm just pointing out the inaccuracy in stating that we are at the end of a pipeline from Russia.

Mucco

I don't know. I'm just pointing out the inaccuracy in stating that we are at the end of a pipeline from Russia.

Is this inaccurate?
We all know that north sea is running out, while the Caspian is a huge region. If europe is not dependent on russian gas, why is the Nabucco pipeling being built, why are the germans by-passing Ukraine? Why is Ireland building an LNG terminal in the Shannon estuary?

robtri

slagger wrote: »

How long is the supply from the North sea going to last?

http://constructireland.ie/Articles/Renewable-Energy/Why-Ireland-is-unprepared-for-the-impact-of-gas-peak.html


http://constructireland.ie/MyBlog/MyBlog/Could-Ireland-be-hit-by-Russia-s-gas-supply-cuts.html

Neither state, how long is left in the North sea....
and there are a lot of other places to import gas from besides russia...

djpbarry

Mucco wrote: »

If europe is not dependent on russian gas...

Where did I say that?

Mucco wrote: »

...why is the Nabucco pipeling being built...

To transport gas from Turkey to Austria?

Mucco wrote: »

...why are the germans by-passing Ukraine?

I'm not sure what you mean?

Mucco wrote: »

Why is Ireland building an LNG terminal in the Shannon estuary?

To import LNG?

I'm not sure what your point is here? Your stating that various projects to exploit natural gas resources are under construction proves that Europe is completely dependent on Russian gas? I would say the opposite is true. Europe currently imports about 25% of its gas from Russia and is currently attempting to reduce this dependency further by building additional pipelines to additional resources.

SeanW

djpbarry wrote: »

To transport gas from Turkey to Austria?

But what's in Turkey? My guess: the Baku Tiblisi Ceyhan pipeline (Ceyhan is in Turkey), the BTC pipeline is a "Russia bypass" to take hydrocarbon resources from the Caspian Sea from under the Russkies noses - they're not too happy about that as you can imagine. That's why in the Russia-Georgia conflict of 2008, they tried to bomb the pipeline but failed.

But there's always a next time ...

So if Ireland is to benefit from the Russian Bypass pipelines to Central Asia, "our" gas will first have to come from the Caspian Sea over the BTC pipeline to Turkey, over the Nabucco Pipeline to Austria, and then over another set of pipelines to Ireland.

Thats assuming the Nabucco thing ever gets built - the Turkish Prime Minister at one point indicated that their crucial support for the project might hinge on EU accession talks ...

Meanwhile, to the North, some conspiracy theorists believe that the Russian sub-conflict with Estonia a few years back, had little or nothing to do with that silly Red statue, and more to do with a Siberia-Europe pipeline that Russia wants to build through territorial waters Estonia claims as its own. Sub-warfare actions against the Estonian government included a massive DDOS attack against all Estonian government websites - an attack whose zombie computers and possible master were Russian. Given Russia's behaviour over the last decade, I wouldn't rule it out.

Our gas fields are too small to supply ourselves - even if we ever do get that thing in Mayo built - and the North Sea reserves are quickly running out. Meanwhile we have a Green muppet in charge of the Ministry of the Environment that won't even let energy companies explore for Urnaium. If it were coal or oil, that ****ing hypocrite would have a different stance.

Finally, natural gas is such that we have little hope of storing it in a "Strategic reserve" in the same way as you can EASILY do with Uranium, and with some good engineering, mineral oil, like the Strategic Petroleum Reserve in the U.S.

Edit: Point of correction, the BTC pipeline is an oil pipeline, but paralell to that is the Baku Tblisi Erzurum pipeline which carries gas, the Nabucco pipeline is planned to continue from Erzurum along the BTC route for a short distance, before diverging to the North and West.

Your stating that various projects to exploit natural gas resources are under construction proves that Europe is completely dependent on Russian gas? I would say the opposite is true. Europe currently imports about 25% of its gas from Russia and is currently attempting to reduce this dependency further by building additional pipelines to additional resources

Yes, the entire continent is playing a big geo-strategic game of what I call "pipeline politics" with Russia obviously being the biggest player.

Are you seriously suggesting that Ireland can jump into this mess and win? Because that just doesn't make any sense.

usemyillusion12

put it near east coast to ship the waste to sellafield without crossing the country

also interesting fact , there are nuclear reactors on the moon ! ,

the americans put them there on the apollo missions to power their scientific equipment long after they left , it was only a small canister like a battery , but still unbelieveable that they put a reactor on one of the biggest rockets evr made and sent it to the moon lol

positron

I believe in the latest nuclear power station technologies, and as long as the project is run by an experience (non-Irish) agency, I will gladly welcome it my neighborhood - Boyne valley area.

With the unemployment and everything going on, I can't believe government wouldn't kick off a project - it will employ so many people, and who knows, knowledge earned might even let Irish agencies a huge opportunity as Nuclear plans are bound to go up everywhere in the world in next 20 years or so!

I would love to work in a nuclear power plant myself..!