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Cork-Dublin Rail Service

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 611 ✭✭✭T Corolla


    The Huestom line is very busy seven days a week with almost 90% of the intercity rail services funning from it and using the same tracks all the way to Portarlington. In order to improve times they need to move one intercity service to Connolly I suggest that the Westport/ Ballina train be merged with the Sligo train and reopen the Mullingar to Athlone railway and have passenger change in Mullingar onto a different train bound for the west or for little or no cost merge the existing Galway and Westport train into a single service and passenger for Westport Ballina change trains in Athlone to free up slots on the Hueston Line. If the line from Athlone to Mullingar was reopened you could in up the Galway service to hourly and passenger from the west and north west could all go onto one train connolly bound and CIE would bring down the cost of running these services significantly. This would be achieved by having the Galway train pass through the tullamore for one service and pass mullingar the next service and they could merge all westport/ballina passengers at Athlone and all Sligo passenger at Mullingar. They would need something similar to the Cork train but it would save in the long run without impacting on existing services


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    T Corolla wrote: »
    The Huestom line is very busy seven days a week with almost 90% of the intercity rail services funning from it and using the same tracks all the way to Portarlington. In order to improve times they need to move one intercity service to Connolly I suggest that the Westport/ Ballina train be merged with the Sligo train and reopen the Mullingar to Athlone railway and have passenger change in Mullingar onto a different train bound for the west or for little or no cost merge the existing Galway and Westport train into a single service and passenger for Westport Ballina change trains in Athlone to free up slots on the Hueston Line. If the line from Athlone to Mullingar was reopened you could in up the Galway service to hourly and passenger from the west and north west could all go onto one train connolly bound and CIE would bring down the cost of running these services significantly. This would be achieved by having the Galway train pass through the tullamore for one service and pass mullingar the next service and they could merge all westport/ballina passengers at Athlone and all Sligo passenger at Mullingar. They would need something similar to the Cork train but it would save in the long run without impacting on existing services

    Once the KRP is complete, capacity issues will be minimal. There are more than enough slots to operate a Cork, Limerick, Galway/Westport, and Waterford service every hour if they so wanted, along with local services and additional trains (e.g. Tralee or second train to the West).

    Capacity out of Heuston will not be the issue - the real issue currently is the state of the track - that is what is holding things up.

    There are plans for Athlone/Westport shuttles connecting into/out of Galway services, but you could not do that with every train as certain Westport trains carry standing loads west of Athlone.

    As for routing via Mullingar, this route is slower, longer and has far greater capacity issues due to the intensive suburban services between Maynooth/Clonsilla and Connolly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    Three years ago on this very forum, I predicted that the inter urbans would kill off inter city rail in Ireland. Other countries recognised the battle that rail had to fight against the motorway. Our rail system is a 20th century system, despite the IE spin of having the most modern fleet in Europe.

    There's a lot of talk about priorities here, but if we weren't wasting money on the WRC then the Cork line could have its relay. I'd even go as far as saying that the core routes are most important as they feed everything else. They should have been the absolute priority in terms of getting them up to at least 100mph. It annoys me to see senior IE managers talk positively about the WRC while seemingly content with curvey welded track,modern signalling, but deplorably low speeds elsewhere. A 21st century railway is about competitiveness. Our investment programme made things safe. It did not deliver an efficient, competitive and value for money system.

    All transport projects undertaken in Ireland remind me of the poor old chap who built a brand new conservatory at the back of his house. It looked great, but the windows in his house were on the verge of falling out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 611 ✭✭✭T Corolla


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    Three years ago on this very forum, I predicted that the inter urbans would kill off inter city rail in Ireland. Other countries recognised the battle that rail had to fight against the motorway. Our rail system is a 20th century system, despite the IE spin of having the most modern fleet in Europe.

    There's a lot of talk about priorities here, but if we weren't wasting money on the WRC then the Cork line could have its relay. I'd even go as far as saying that the core routes are most important as they feed everything else. They should have been the absolute priority in terms of getting them up to at least 100mph. It annoys me to see senior IE managers talk positively about the WRC while seemingly content with curvey welded track,modern signalling, but deplorably low speeds elsewhere. A 21st century railway is about competitiveness. Our investment programme made things safe. It did not deliver an efficient, competitive and value for money system.

    All transport projects undertaken in Ireland remind me of the poor old chap who built a brand new conservatory at the back of his house. It looked great, but the windows in his house were on the verge of falling out.
    I agree with you 100% The WRC is only a political promise and will deliver very little in return I suggest a more frequent bus services and upgrade the N18 road


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 611 ✭✭✭T Corolla


    KC61 wrote: »
    Once the KRP is complete, capacity issues will be minimal. There are more than enough slots to operate a Cork, Limerick, Galway/Westport, and Waterford service every hour if they so wanted, along with local services and additional trains (e.g. Tralee or second train to the West).

    Capacity out of Heuston will not be the issue - the real issue currently is the state of the track - that is what is holding things up.

    There are plans for Athlone/Westport shuttles connecting into/out of Galway services, but you could not do that with every train as certain Westport trains carry standing loads west of Athlone.

    As for routing via Mullingar, this route is slower, longer and has far greater capacity issues due to the intensive suburban services between Maynooth/Clonsilla and Connolly.
    Do you argue that the rail link to Galway via Mullingar requires too much investmest as I have live not far from that rail link and it is as good a rail line as there can be in the country all it needs is new tracks and signalling as the layout is quiet straight and should have got the investment that is going to be put into the rail line from Tuam to Clairemorris as it would yield a higher return. I mean there is more of an argument for the rail link to Navan that for one from Tuam to Clairemorris. I would say there are few Westport trains west of Athlone with people standing up as the journey is two hours on after Athlone. I was in favour of the WRC until I paid a visit there last summer and seen how poor laid the line was laid there is harldly and stretch over two mile straight and I have heard of a journey time of 1hr 50 mins from Galway to Limerick which by road about an 1hr 20mins in traffic. That line is a non runner from the start I sorry to be so pesemistic about it


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    T Corolla wrote: »
    Do you argue that the rail link to Galway via Mullingar requires too much investmest as I have live not far from that rail link and it is as good a rail line as there can be in the country all it needs is new tracks and signalling as the layout is quiet straight and should have got the investment that is going to be put into the rail line from Tuam to Clairemorris as it would yield a higher return. I mean there is more of an argument for the rail link to Navan that for one from Tuam to Clairemorris. I would say there are few Westport trains west of Athlone with people standing up as the journey is two hours on after Athlone. I was in favour of the WRC until I paid a visit there last summer and seen how poor laid the line was laid there is harldly and stretch over two mile straight and I have heard of a journey time of 1hr 50 mins from Galway to Limerick which by road about an 1hr 20mins in traffic. That line is a non runner from the start I sorry to be so pesemistic about it

    That's not what I am saying.

    What I am saying is the following:
    1) Athlone - Dublin via Mullingar is longer and slower than via Portarlington due to:
    a) The permanent way between Mullingar and Dublin - line curvature and max line speed
    b) There is and will be an more intensive suburban service between Maynooth and Clonsilla and Connolly with which any additional trains would have to shar the track.

    2) Operating trains via Portarlington has the benefit of higher speed limits on the Dublin-Cork line (albeit restricted at present) and will benefit from the segregation of suburban stopping services and intercity services that the KRP four tracking will provide

    3) There are plans for some additional Westport-Athlone shuttles already that will connect into/out of Dublin-Galway services at Athlone, but you could not do that with the peak services which often carry full loads on a 6 Car train west of Athlone.

    4) An hourly Dublin-Galway or Westport service can be operated with existing infrastructure, which incidentally is not overloaded out of Heuston. In any hour it is possible to operate a service to Cork, Limerick, Tralee, Waterford, Galway, Westport, and two commuter services. That only happens at peak hours. For the rest of the day there is plenty of free paths.

    I would suggest that Athlone-Dublin could be operated as perhaps an additional commuter route, but I can't really see it as a viable alternative Intercity route as for the reasons above it is slower and longer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    Shocking, but not that surprising really. CAF have an office in Hueston and that was always a bad sign. Theyre not the worst train builder in the world, but those Cork trains are piles of ****e and I said it 3 years ago. Tin cans.

    So is the ride quality the fault of the track, guage, coach or the big **** off American loco at the other end? Who knows?

    Vic Berry is waiting.:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    This hot from the Irish Govt. e tender site.

    Title: Ride comfort modification MK 4 carriages
    Published by: Iarnrod Eireann-Irish Rail
    Publication Date: 20/04/2009
    Application Deadline:
    Notice Deadline Date: 27/05/2009
    Notice Deadline Time: 12:00
    Notice Type: Utility - Contract Notice
    Has Documents: No
    Abstract: Irish Rail have procured a modern fleet of 67 passenger coaches that operate on an Intercity service. The fleet is 3 years old and the ride comfort of the vehicles requires improvement. Recognising that this is a complex issue expressions of interest are invited from companies interesting in bidding for a turnkey project to rectify the ride comfort on the fleet to an agreed performance level.

    When you add this nonsense to the tenders being sought for retro-fitting Selective Door Opening to the 22000 railcar fleet, is it any wonder CIE/IE is such a disaster. Heads should roll for this sort of cock-up but will they hell. :mad::mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,186 ✭✭✭highdef


    Very very interesting :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    i had the dubious and rare opportunity to travel to Dublin by trian recently...I couldnt hold the paper still enough to do the crossword.....horrible trains and stuck with a great lump of freight engine on one end too.....laughably having a STREAMLINED driving trailer at the other end.Whereas the hourly interval service was a great step forward, something badly needs doing now to improve the comfort before the M8 opens fully....


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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,943 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    It's true. The old trains were a lot more comfortable I thought. Especially unpleasant is that there seems to be feck all room on the new trains between you and whoever you end up seated beside. Now that the M8 is mostly completed, the car is a lot more tempting from the point of view of space and comfort.

    ⛥ ̸̱̼̞͛̀̓̈́͘#C̶̼̭͕̎̿͝R̶̦̮̜̃̓͌O̶̬͙̓͝W̸̜̥͈̐̾͐Ṋ̵̲͔̫̽̎̚͠ͅT̸͓͒͐H̵͔͠È̶̖̳̘͍͓̂W̴̢̋̈͒͛̋I̶͕͑͠T̵̻͈̜͂̇Č̵̤̟̑̾̂̽H̸̰̺̏̓ ̴̜̗̝̱̹͛́̊̒͝⛥



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,590 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Once the MIU is fully completed and M50 upgrade completed, Irish Rail are in serious trouble. As a Corkonian living in Dublin and having many friends the same, all are noticing how slow the trains are and how fast the road is even in its current state.

    And just wait for one of the bus companies to lay on direct non stop Cork to Dublin service along the motorway for €20 return, with free wifi and toilet on board, Irish Rail will be in deep trouble then.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    Improving the ride quality on these heaps of ****e will not hold off the advance of the M8. IE are 20 years behind the times in Ireland. Even longer in European terms. Decades of under investment doesn't cut it with me anymore.

    Forget the WRC. 100 million on the premier line would have competed with the car. Politics has killed off the railways in Ireland. Watch the inter urbans from next year, eat into rail traffic via private car and express bus.

    Im a fortune teller. I predicted it all years ago. Get RUI on the phone and remind them.:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    bk wrote: »
    Once the MIU is fully completed and M50 upgrade completed, Irish Rail are in serious trouble. As a Corkonian living in Dublin and having many friends the same, all are noticing how slow the trains are and how fast the road is even in its current state.

    And just wait for one of the bus companies to lay on direct non stop Cork to Dublin service along the motorway for €20 return, with free wifi and toilet on board, Irish Rail will be in deep trouble then.

    Irish Rail will not be in serious trouble - people wishing to retain a viable railway system in Ireland will be. Irish Rail don't give a fig - their overpaid managers will take a golden handshake or move off to another semi-state and the unions will make sure their members are looked after with generous redundancy payments - the only people in trouble will be people wishing to travel by rail. :mad:


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think the new trains are a step backwards, I really notice the difference in ride quality on a CAF set over a Mk3, though the new 22000 railcars seem to be better than the Mk4s at least. Taking a plane to Farranfore is something I'm highly considering doing from now on.
    dowlingm wrote: »
    My recollection is that the 201s are rated to 100mph (160km/h) and the rolling stock to 125mph-200km/h. The 201s have been run faster than that for safety testing but they are heavy locos - a 200km/h train would likely have two driving cars to reduce the weight of each compared to the big 201 and the impact it has on trackage.

    The Mk4 sets are currently passed for 100mph operation but with a brake modification (installation of additional pads) they are capable of 125mph. The Mk3s were 125mph capable from the start, being 5'3" variants of their HST counterparts in the UK.

    The 201s have an overspeed trip which kicks in at ~103mph. I'm guessing if they went any higher than this then the trip must have been disabled for the test. The 071s, not having any computerised gizmos, can go a lot higher than their rated 89mph.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭dermo88


    Shall I go over to IRN and gloat?

    I already have....too late. Could'nt resist it.

    Back in 2005, and I'll pull up the link, I stated.

    "Railways in Ireland have a limited future unless they compete on speed and frequency"

    But of course, the eyes were on the west, looking at Tuam and Claremorris, overlooking the track on the lynchpin being pounded to bits by Freight engines doing 100mph. Inappropriate at best, foolish at worst.

    And now, unfortunately, it comes back to bite. And now, you know why I hated the Western Rail Corridor and all it represented. It was nothing less than dog dirt in a silk stocking. I told you so. I said that the Interconnector and Navan were the way forward. But....thats why I don't post as much anymore.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Nostradamus


    Abstract: Irish Rail have procured a modern fleet of 67 passenger coaches that operate on an Intercity service. The fleet is 3 years old and the ride comfort of the vehicles requires improvement. Recognising that this is a complex issue expressions of interest are invited from companies interesting in bidding for a turnkey project to rectify the ride comfort on the fleet to an agreed performance level.

    The Mk3's were better by a long run.

    Is is just me or are CAF the Lidl of train builders?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    To be fair to CAF and DeDietrich (defunct) they were asked to build coaches and they built them. The same coaches (or close variants thereof) operate smoothly and comfortably in Continental Europe.

    The problem is the permanent way is in bits. The MKIIIs 'work' because they were designed by British Rail for use on their appaling track. They have since improved most of their mainline of course.

    The regional trains here are more comfortable than any 'Intercity' train I have ever been on in Ireland (and faster) because the track is laid on proper foundations and is maintained properly. I don't really buy into the whole "201 Class is responsible" thing-a close cousin of the 201 (but heavier) works freight trains without incident in Germany and elsewhere. The 201 isn't too heavy for the track, the track is too light for the 201. The entire Cork line needs rebuilding and straightening. It should be able to support at least 125mph throughout. Most of the work won't even require any land take...compare to the motorway programme.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    murphaph - are the 201 equivalents hauling freight at 160km/h? (question not ball hop)


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