What planet is this guy on...

RedXIV

I can see where El Rifle is coming from, I always assumed if you start a company, you did it 100% off your own back, simply from personal experience of entreprenurs in the family. And this is what i was planning on doing until a very small bit of research showed alot of resources were supposidly available for start up business's and business expansions. And while i respect any entreprenur who makes it on his own, I think someone who is supposed to be smart enough to start his own company and DOESN'T avail of funding and resources which he is perfectly entitled to from the state probably should rethink his position. Alot of busniess people will tell you that you should use every available resource when starting up a business and usually refer to talent, time and personal ability. but if a resource from the state is available, then you'd be stupid not to take it.

I think the problem here is that while alot of start up companies have been promised support, alot of entreprenures have the creativity to see past the existing measures and have plenty of more effcient ideas which could support them. So the REAL problem is we need entreprenures looking out for other entreprenurs, not politicians.

starbelgrade

RedXIV wrote: »

I can see where El Rifle is coming from, I always assumed if you start a company, you did it 100% off your own back, simply from personal experience of entreprenurs in the family. And this is what i was planning on doing until a very small bit of research showed alot of resources were supposidly available for start up business's and business expansions. And while i respect any entreprenur who makes it on his own, I think someone who is supposed to be smart enough to start his own company and DOESN'T avail of funding and resources which he is perfectly entitled to from the state probably should rethink his position. Alot of busniess people will tell you that you should use every available resource when starting up a business and usually refer to talent, time and personal ability. but if a resource from the state is available, then you'd be stupid not to take it.

I think the problem here is that while alot of start up companies have been promised support, alot of entreprenures have the creativity to see past the existing measures and have plenty of more effcient ideas which could support them. So the REAL problem is we need entreprenures looking out for other entreprenurs, not politicians.

As a student leaving college, he never paid, or paid very litte PAYE, so I can see why he calls social welfare payments "free money". Let him work for 20 years, loose his job, sign on & call his benefits "free money". I hope it all goes well for him though, & he never has to look for help.

delllat

Deleted User wrote: »

And you call yourself "El Rifle", is that because you like to shoot people down? har har

What exactly doesn´t make sense to you?

I went for the dole because I was well within my rights to claim it (or so I thought), turns out I wasn´t allowed claim the dole because my father had a successful career.

I shouldn´t be linked to my father when claiming for something. I was just doing what everyone is entitled to do, I had finished college as a skilled individual and couldn´t get a job so instead of sponging off my daddy, I tried to get my own cash together. What´s your point?

I don´t dream of claiming the dole but it was an opportunity that presented itself to me because I couldn´t get a job (just like the other thousands of graduates at the moment) at the time. I

There are two types of people on the dole; good people who can´t help the situation they are in and abusers. I wanted to do something about it unlike the abusers of the system who don´t know what a condom is and who enjoy queueing up as a hobby because they have nothing else to do so they stroll down to get their social welfare cheque for themselves and their 14 year old pregnant girlfriend.

It´s great having such a positive and totally unrealistic stupid outlook but I wanted to fund my own venture entirely and more importantly, I just wanted what I was entitled to.

Youve got some fcuking cheek asking for social welfare when in your own words your dads "heavily involved in politics"
Also you said "you dont want to sponge off of Daddy"
You would perfer to sponge of the taxpayer???
is it better than the system support you than "heavily involved in politics" daddy?
Honestly,social welfare wasnt designed for upper middle class snobs who dont need it so you shouldnt even ask
im actually glad they didnt give it you
theres people out there that really are living on a crust and people like you are making it harder for them by deciding you would like to get "free money"

RedXIV

RedXIV wrote: »

I think someone who is supposed to be smart enough to start his own company and DOESN'T avail of funding and resources which he is perfectly entitled to from the state probably should rethink his position. .

Agree 100%. If you can get a grant for your startup company by all means. If you get refused though, dont make it a reason not to start would be my philosophy. Id use the refusal to motivate me all the more to make it a success

delllat

delllat wrote: »

Youve got some fcuking cheek asking for social welfare when in your own words your dads "heavily involved in politics"
Also you said "you dont want to sponge off of Daddy"
You would perfer to sponge of the taxpayer???
is it better than the system support you than "heavily involved in politics" daddy?
Honestly,social welfare wasnt designed for upper middle class snobs who dont need it so you shouldnt even ask
im actually glad they didnt give it you
theres people out there that really are living on a crust and people like you are making it harder for them by deciding you would like to get "free money"

I think you're misunderstood. I explained earlier that there are two types of people who claim the dole; good people who need it and abusers. I never said my dad was a corrupt politician, I basically said he is a loyal Fianna Fail fan but that is neither here nor there. I'd appreciate it if you left him out of it.

I was like one of many thousands of other students who couldn't get a job so I applied for what I was entitled to apply for. I'm a good person who was claiming what I was entitled to. Also, I wasn't an entrepreneur then and I'm not now, I'm in the process of setting up a company for myself.

As for how social welfare is not for "upper middle class snobs", open your eyes and look around, there are people who have been made redundant from all walks of life particularly those of a middle class background who now need to claim what is rightfully theirs and I was no different, straight out of college and no job so I claimed for it. Big deal.

I hopefully won't ever need to do it again.

Oh and Dellat, wake up and smell the ****ing coffee, you're not the only tax payer in this country, everyone who works is a taxpayer, I worked during college and paid taxes just like everyone else so don't play that bulls*** with me.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing should stand in your way certainly not the fact that your not getting free money.

There is always a choice

It's not standing in my way, I was straight out of college and only wanted it while I was either looking for another job or deciding what I wanted to do.

Hypothetical situation: 2 people straight out of college with their honours degrees, who is the smarter one? The one who is looking for jobs for months on end with no source of income or the one who is looking for jobs months on end with a source of income coming in?

That's what the dole is there for, just because so many scumbags/abusers have tarnished what is rightfully a helpful source for job seekers or the unemployed.

madmik

Deleted User wrote: »

I think you're misunderstood. I explained earlier that there are two types of people who claim the dole; good people who need it and abusers. I never said my dad was a corrupt politician, I basically said he is a loyal Fianna Fail fan but that is neither here nor there. I'd appreciate it if you left him out of it.

I was like one of many thousands of other students who couldn't get a job so I applied for what I was entitled to apply for. I'm a good person who was claiming what I was entitled to.

As for how social welfare is not for "upper middle class snobs", open your eyes and look around, there are people who have been made redundant from all walks of life particularly those of a middle class background who now need to claim what is rightfully theirs and I was no different, straight out of college and no job so I claimed for it. Big deal.

I hopefully won't ever need to do it again.

You obviously were refused social welfare because you were too rich to get it
you could always exercise some social responsibility and not join the dole queue at first opportunity
You just admitted you were straight out of college when you tried/claimed it
theres a differnce in being poor and hopping on the bandwagon

madmik

madmik wrote: »

You obviously were refused social welfare because you were too rich to get it
you could always exercise some social responsibility and not join the dole queue at first opportunity
You just admitted you were straight out of college when you tried/claimed it
theres a differnce in being poor and hopping on the bandwagon

That's a crock of ****. I was and am not rich, I was an educated jobseeker looking for what I was entitled to and only needed it for about 3 weeks as I got job offers shortly after but I had no money leaving college and don't see why I should have to ask my parents to support me at 23. I think I stopped the process eventually because they wanted to call out to my house to do an inspection and I got so fed up with the time wasting procedure that I decided to just start an ebay business with some stock I got from a friend and I had my own source of income from then on.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Agree 100%. If you can get a grant for your startup company by all means. If you get refused though, dont make it a reason not to start would be my philosophy. Id use the refusal to motivate me all the more to make it a success

I don't see how you got confused with what I was saying. I didn't stop going ahead with my venture because of the dole refusal, I never had a venture to begin with, I'm just saying the extra income I would have received would have been a great benefit to me personally when I was unemployed, I was simply agreeing with Darraghs original post by saying "Yes I agree with you, the current govt are a bunch of **** ups"

I don't quit because something doesn't go my way. I have an excellent work ethic.

EDIT: And I never once called the Dole "free money"

starbelgrade

Deleted User wrote: »

And I never once called the Dole "free money"

El Rifle likened government business grants to getting "free money". He also belives that "The dole is the drainer of entrepreneurial spirit, and the bringer of daytime TV".

He may well have worked hard after college, but then again, most of us who went to college did the exact same. The difference is that for some people, claiming the dole is not an optional thing. Many people have lost their jobs in the last year & most of them have been unable to find an alternative. I think he expects them to live on air & sunshine.

I also completely disagree that the dole encourages a culture of laziness. I guarantee you, that during this recession, there will be more entrepenuers to come out at the end of it. I know many previous PAYE workers who are on the dole now & who are also setting up their own businesses. They've seen how insecure a previously thought of "secure job" can be and in many cases, they come from specialist professions, so simply jumping into another type of job is simply not an option.

So they are forced with taking the situaion into their own hands & I wish them the best of luck.

Thinking that they are all at home watching "Loose Women" and Sile Seoige is just ridiculous & slightly pompous.

DubTony

Wow, I can't believe where this thread has gone. What makes most of you who've had a go, believe that a guy should be berated because he tried to get some dole? Have I missed something here?
The Entrepreneur wasn't abusing the system, he wasn't even looking for something he wasn't entitled to. What's the problem? Get Real lads.

What about the guy who's been running his own business and somehow manages to go broke with huge debt. There's no safety net for him, unless he goes begging on his knees while trying to jump through hoops at the same time.

How's that for abuse of a system?. Puts a slightly different slant on things, doesn't it?

His ex-employees will get dole but the guy who gave them jobs and paid their PRSI (collected without payment and contributed for the privilege of employing someone) gets diddly squat. pffft!!!!

Find something serious to moan about, will you?

[/rant]

ynotdu

Deleted User wrote: »

Your assuming a lot there ynotdu (incorrectly I might add) and what your saying even if it was my personal opinion is totally irrelevant. Public flogging? To be successful in business you need a single minded approach.

Perhaps your forgetting the purpose of this forum is for business and entrepreneurs. Find me a successful entrepreneur who disagrees with what I have said.
If you cant understand what I'm saying then fair enough, but you dont see me posting in the forest and farming forum or the mathematics forums

I despise anybody being ganged up on after reading more postings I feel you are being a bit.but(there,s always a but:))you seem to be saying that being an entreprenour means a person needs to be devoid of humanity& all the other stuff ending in ty or ism.

no sarcasm,no criticism meant on a personal level to You.simply mean a person can be both.
be happy

Thanks for the back up there, I was starting to question my own motives to see how I was in the wrong. I know for sure I wasn't in the wrong and El Rifle is obviously not busy enough with his four businesses to be having a go at me. I hope he finds something worthwhile soon, same goes for Dellat (who was recently banned by the way for posting idiotic pictures in another thread on this forum - I certainly won't be aspiring to be like them when I get my business up and running.)

Sonnenblumen

Darragh29 wrote: »

Ok, I was going to post this in politics, but as it's specifically about job creation and entrepreneurship, or at least that is my gripe with the subject matter here, I thought I'd post it here in this forum, so that those who wish to create employment in this country, can get a feel for the kind of politically coded bullsh*t that you will have to deal with if you want to start up a business in this country...

For anyone who is interested, Cowen spoke at an IMI Leadership Forum last week. You can watch his address here:

http://www.fiannafail.ie/media/entry/brian-cowen-taoiseach-addresses-the-national-leadership-forum/

It is full of loose talk about support for business, the provision of finance for start-up businesses, support for entrepreneurs, support for a new culture of entrepreneurship in Ireland, etc.

Now, on this forum we have people posting every day of the week, some with an idea, some without, but each poster has some urge to create an employment for themselves. For some they will embark on the journey, for some other's they won't bother. That's grand.

Now all this guy had to do is make a connection between the suport that he says is there for people who are up for the challenge of creating employment in a recession, and the people themselves who want to be entrepreneurs.

So he says he will support new businesses.. HOW??? HOW ARE YOU SUPORTING NEW BUSINESSES??? WHERE DO I GO TO APPLY FOR THIS SUPPORT THAT YOU SAY YOU ARE PROVIDING???

This literally makes me want to kick in my PC monitor. You have empty IDA buildings and other state property being paid for, up and down the country, that could be used to get Business Incubation Teams up and running, basically a cluster of small start up businesses operating from one location, you have a two year lease with managable overheads, a secure location and basic admin services...

More importantly, how the F*CK can the leader of this country go into a forum of what are supposed to be management experts and business leaders in the IMI, and not be challenged as to why he is not doing something like I've suggested above??? He goes into a conference room full of supposed business leaders and comes out without any plan or an initiative to create even a single job!!!

Did someone in this conference not think of taking him aside and saying if he could arrange a single IDA industrial unit for use for 5 years and 5 civil servants for one year to support the project, that we could actually start creating jobs immediately and assist people who are up for this challenge???

What in all that's holy is going in this country??? How come it's all talk and absolutely no action with everything in Ireland??? And I don't just blame Cowen, where is the joined up, smart thinking here???

Having read your post again, it would be fair to point out the clever speak of Mr Cowen is technically correct, and you've taken it 'hook, line and sinker' to mean 'all' businessess when in fact he is saying, in principle, there are State support services but with qualifying/eligibilty criteria for state supports. The details are available from several websites including Ent Irel, IDA, CEBs, etc etc. You'd be better to look there for the answers than persisting with 'flogging the dead horse' complaint.

Also which empty IDA units do you refer to? Are you sure they belong to IDA? A number of years ago the IDA sold a good deal of their property portfolio and now many previously owned and run IDA Incubation units are in private ownership, eg, there are some in Tallaght, Terenure, Docklands etc etc

There is little of any relevance to bus man or enterprise in this thread.

maninasia

There are plenty of grants available in Ireland although I don't have any personal experience, members of my family have been assisted by local enterprise boards to setup websites etc. and that has definitely been helpful.
There is a serious lack of venture capital and private funding in Ireland compared to a large and entrepeneurial country such as the US but also compared to smaller countries such as Taiwan and Korea. That makes it much more difficult to get the funds to compete or to survive a total bust (if its all your money and you can't get anymore from anywhere else...it will be hard to start again).
For the last 10 years entrepeneurs in Ireland have almost all been about property, bricks and mortar, stuff that doesn't contribute anything.
That sucked all the capital out of the investment market for real businesses. Now a lot of people have huge debts and the capital pool has been destroyed and the government capital pool is also consequently lacking, now the government and banks are a millstone around entrepeneurs necks as they need to suck in more taxes to pay these bad debts. Kind of the opposite of what they are supposed to be doing. We need capital to come back in and support entrepeneurial business.

Ironically this property bust will help as Irish people refocus on businesses that can grow and earn a good return the old fashioned way and as people are 1) FORCED to setup a business as there just aren't that many jobs around and 2) Have such a bad taste from getting laid off that they decided never again or 3) Take the chance now that presents itself.

Whatever else, this recession will create a new breed of business people and a new more realistic thinking in Ireland and I for one welcome it.

@Entrepeneur.....when I was in college I didn't get a cent and I was broke as hell for years..I resented it then that others got grants etc. and got money off their folks too, it may not seemt fair but that's Ireland, it is a socialist republic and most people in Ireland are only a shade short of Communist thinking...Catholic Communists...until you ask them to pay more and more tax I guess

You are just unlucky to graduate in a recession but it certainly doesn't make your case unusual, join the other 100 million Irish people who grew up in a recession before you

ChRoMe

El Rifle: Do you live at home?