The County Between Donegal and Antrim

gurramok

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

No I don't. You might find the majority of people in Dublin might wake up tomorrow wanting to call their county 'U2ville' or even 'Liverchester Utd' but that doesn't mean the county is suddenly no longer called 'Dublin' anymore.

Likewise get the name of county 'Londonderry' officially changed and I'll call it whatever you all want to call it. Until then it's Londonderry.

So you accept injustices of the past on its inhabitants. There is no analogy between Dublin and Derry. The original title of the city was Derry before it was changed to L'Derry against the will of its citizens.

Mr.Lizard

You two are simply going off on tangents about what the place 'should' be called. I'm only specifying what it IS called. I've no vested interest what the place is called or what that signifies in political terms. I'd quite happily call it St.Petersburg or Volgograd if that's what it was renamed to tomorrow. I merely find it easiest to call the place by it's current official name and leave it to the rest of you to squabble about it.

getz

gurramok wrote: »

So you accept injustices of the past on its inhabitants. There is no analogy between Dublin and Derry. The original title of the city was Derry before it was changed to L'Derry against the will of its citizens.

no you are wrong the original name was doir-but it is a stupid argument anyway- if londonderry[derry] had been a city any where else in the british isles the locals would be calling it derry-

regob

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

You two are simply going off on tangents about what the place 'should' be called. I'm only specifying what it IS called. I've no vested interest what the place is called or what that signifies in political terms. I'd quite happily call it St.Petersburg or Volgograd if that's what it was renamed to tomorrow. I merely find it easiest to call the place by it's current official name and leave it to the rest of you to squabble about it.

all im trying to say is that the current official name of the county between donegal and antrim is derry/doire.

thats what its called

luckylucky

gurramok wrote: »

So you accept injustices of the past on its inhabitants. There is no analogy between Dublin and Derry. The original title of the city was Derry before it was changed to L'Derry against the will of its citizens.

AFAIK the against the will part wasn't true, the majority of its citizens at that time were Protestants, now it's majority Catholic of course.

regob

luckylucky wrote: »

AFAIK the against the will part wasn't true, the majoity of its citizens at that time were Protestants, now it's majority Catholic of course.

gurramok is right

dlofnep

Derry city. Derry county.

dlofnep

Free Derry is also acceptable.

luckylucky

regob wrote: »

gurramok is right

And that's that is it.

luckylucky wrote: »

The London being tacked on was done as a gesture of thanks to the City of London Guilds which gave aid to the city during the Jacobite siege.

Obviously prior to the Ulster Scots arrival it would have been overwhlemingly Catholic, the fact that there was Jacobite siege on the town in the first place this seems to mean like the majority were Protestant.

dlofnep

Last time I was in Derry, they changed the Free Derry corner to Free Gaza. So I guess, it's technically Gaza until the paper falls off the wall.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3134/3253204915_90595f9a43.jpg

regob

end of the day the county between donegal and antrim is called derry question answered. job done, close thread

getz

regob wrote: »

end of the day the county between donegal and antrim is called derry question answered. job done, close thread

then tell the rest of the world they are the ones walking out of step not you

Jim236

getz wrote: »

but i still have to find a member of this city who calls the tune londonderry air the derry air ,just dosent sound quite the same

Probably because its a Loyalist anthem? Just a wild guess...

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

I call the county 'Londonderry' because that is its name.

If the Brits want to call it L'derry thats their choice, but it's officially called Derry in Ireland. Surely as an Irish citizen, you'd recognise the official name in Ireland before what legislators in England want to impose on a majority Nationalist area of Ireland(who themselves want it called Derry)?

K-9

Do Counties officially exist in NI anymore? Eg. There is no Londonderry/Derry Co. Council anymore. Are they just Geographical terms, not official ones?

Think there was a legal case on Derry city and officially it still is Londonderry, something to do with the Royal Charter I think.

themont85

I always thought that people who reffered to it as Londonderry were trying to impose their 'Britishness' on Northern Ireland. Reminds me of the Ulster Unionists tag line 'simply British' a few years back, makes no sense its the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Your Irish and happen to be a unionist get the **** over it, i'm not even die hard 32 county, in fact i couldn't care less but that always annoyed me. Like calling yourself a ulster-scot, fair enough just like Irish American but you aren't British. Even the argument, that their ancestors were Scots so therefore 'Brits' ect holds no dice, the plantations were before the formation of the initial Act of Union of Scotland and England forming Great Britain.

Saibh

K-9 wrote: »

Do Counties officially exist in NI anymore? Eg. There is no Londonderry/Derry Co. Council anymore. Are they just Geographical terms, not official ones?

Think there was a legal case on Derry city and officially it still is Londonderry, something to do with the Royal Charter I think.

Going by this website - there is still a Derry City Council.

Hagar

When SF won control of Londonderry City Council their first act was to vote through a name-change to Derry City Council. Isn't democracy great.

It'l take a bit more work to get the county name changed back to Derry but sure we've waited this long another while won't hurt. The predictions for Nationalists outbreeding Unionist give it about 35 to 40 years max. We can have a vote then.

luckylucky

themont85 wrote: »

Reminds me of the Ulster Unionists tag line 'simply British' a few years back, makes no sense its the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Your Irish and happen to be a unionist get the **** over it, i'm not even die hard 32 county, in fact i couldn't care less but that always annoyed me. Like calling yourself a ulster-scot, fair enough just like Irish American but you aren't British. Even the argument, that their ancestors were Scots so therefore 'Brits' ect holds no dice, the plantations were before the formation of the initial Act of Union of Scotland and England forming Great Britain.

tbh you're seeing it from your viewpoint, they have a completely different one. At the end of the day a large proportion of Unionists think of themselves as British first. So there's no point in you or I getting our undergarments in a twist over it.

But here's the thing. If The IRA were a successful soccer team instead of a terrorist/freedom fighter group.. they'd be known as British wouldn't they by the UK media, funny that though they were known as an Irish terrorist group even though the majority of them are not from the actual country of Ireland..... ok going off on a bit of a tangent I know

K-9

Saibh wrote: »

Going by this website - there is still a Derry City Council.

lol, that wasn't my question. There is no Londonderry or Derry Co. Council.

There is a Derry city Co., but officially it still is Londonderry. I'll dig out some links.

luckylucky

K-9 wrote: »

lol, that wasn't my question. There is no Londonderry or Derry Co. Council.

There is a Derry city Co., but officially it still is Londonderry. I'll dig out some links.

here's one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derry-Londonderry_name_dispute

themont85

luckylucky wrote: »

tbh you're seeing it from your viewpoint, they have a completely different one. At the end of the day a large proportion of Unionists think of themselves as British first. So there's no point in you or I getting our undergarments in a twist over it.

But here's the thing. If The IRA were a successful soccer team instead of a terrorist/freedom fighter group.. they'd be known as British wouldn't they by the UK media, funny that though they were known as an Irish terrorist group even though the majority of them are not from the actual country of Ireland..... ok going off on a bit of a tangent I know

The planters who left what is now Britain to go to Ireland were not British, they couldn't have been called that till the act of union 1701, the planters wouldnt have called themselves that, they were Scots or English. Its different to Latin Americans or Irish Americans because thats what people called them when they arrived. Its the UK of GB and NI, NI is not Britain. Calling themselves British is like a person who emigrated from what is know Zimbabwe and previousely Rhodesia as Zimbabwen if they left before it was changed to that. I'm fairly sure unionists say it to make out that the connection to the crown and the other island is really deep, but calling themselves Brits is retarded and makes little difference, you are unionist fair enough no problems there but not British and never were!

/end of rant

K-9

Saibh wrote: »

Going by this website - there is still a Derry City Council.

I'd say the best source on it is An Phoblacht, even they agree!

http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/19823

luckylucky

themont85 wrote: »

The planters who left what is now Britain to go to Ireland were not British, they couldn't have been called that till the act of union 1701, the planters wouldnt have called themselves that, they were Scots or English. Its different to Latin Americans or Irish Americans because thats what people called them when they arrived. Its the UK of GB and NI, NI is not Britain. Calling themselves British is like a person who emigrated from what is know Zimbabwe and previousely Rhodesia as Zimbabwen if they left before it was changed to that. I'm fairly sure unionists say it to make out that the connection to the crown and the other island is really deep, but calling themselves Brits is retarded and makes little difference, you are unionist fair enough no problems there but not British and never were!

/end of rant

I didn't disagree with your arguments. Though your Latin American one is actually wrong... but won't get into that... you can google it if you like .
btw hope you are not calling me a unionist :eek:, i don't even fit remotely into a West Brit type tag . All I'm saying is it's pointless for you or I to tell Unionists that they shouldn't call or think of themselves as British it would only make them even more fervent in doing so.

themont85 wrote: »

I'm fairly sure unionists say it to make out that the connection to the crown and the other island is really deep.

I'd say that's pretty much why alright, and even as a fairly nationalistic type guy I can see why a Unionist would be that way.... not saying it's wrong or right, so please don't rant at me I don't think I could take another one :P

regob

when you come into the county from the donegal side it says welcome to derry, when you come into from the antrim side it says welcome to derry?

K-9

regob wrote: »

when you come into the county from the donegal side it says welcome to derry, when you come into from the antrim side it says welcome to derry?

Indeed, an Irish solution to an Irish problem.

I'm not sure if counties are still recognised in NI for official purposes.

It's Wiki, but sure anyway:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland

Northern Ireland consists of six historic counties: County Antrim, County Armagh, County Down, County Fermanagh, County Londonderry,[51] County Tyrone

These counties are no longer used for local government purposes; instead there are twenty-six districts of Northern Ireland which have different geographical extents, even in the case of those named after the counties from which they derive their name. Fermanagh District Council most closely follows the borders of the county from which it takes its name. Coleraine Borough Council, on the other hand, derives its name from the town of Coleraine in County Londonderry.



Lower Lough Erne, County Fermanagh


Although counties are no longer used for governmental purpose, they remain a popular means of describing where places are. They are officially used while applying for an Irish passport, which requires one to state one's county of birth. The name of county then appears in both Irish and English on the passport's information page, as opposed to the town or city of birth on the United Kingdom passport. The Gaelic Athletic Association still uses the counties as its primary means of organisation and fields representative teams of each GAA county.
The county boundaries still appear on Ordnance Survey of Northern Ireland Maps and the Phillips Street Atlases, among others. With their decline in official use, there is often confusion surrounding towns and cities which lie near county boundaries, such as Belfast and Lisburn, which are split between counties Down and Antrim (the majorities of both cities, however, are in Antrim).

Jim236

luckylucky wrote: »

funny that though they were known as an Irish terrorist group even though the majority of them are not from the actual country of Ireland..... ok going off on a bit of a tangent I know

Well at that stage we still held our claim over the North, so they were from the actual country of Ireland, as far as Ireland was concerned. Regardless if you're trying to say you need to be from the 26 counties to call yourself Irish you're an idiot, the whole point of the troubles was that there was a large population of Irish Catholics in the North who were oppressed and had their culture & identity suppressed by the Unionist government, and who wanted to be part of the Irish republic. If it was as clear cut as you're Irish if you're from the 26 counties and British from the other 6, there wouldn't be a question over whether or not there should be a United Ireland. But the reality is the Irish nation doesn't stop at the border, and there are over 800,000 Irish Catholics in the North who are as Irish as any other Irish person on this island, regardless of any border imposed by a foreign state.

Also I wouldn't call the IRA terrorists, they're no different to the men & women who fought for our independence back in 1916 who we commemorate as national heroes every year. Just to clarify, I'm not defending what the Real IRA did in Omagh, they were a splinter group and a very different organisation to the official IRA in the 80's and the IRA before that, and who were clearly just out to kill people as a way to stop the peace process.

Mint Sauce

regob wrote: »

when you come into the county from the donegal side it says welcome to derry, when you come into from the antrim side it says welcome to derry?

interesting point, i always thought the county was always known as derry, regardless of your political/religious views, it was only the city that was derry or londonderry

Hogzy

Get out you black and tans...

dlofnep

Oh btw, don't even mention the word "Derry" on wikipedia. There's a hothead unionist mod on there who will attack you, and tell you that there is "no such county as Derry", change it back to Londonderry and then ban you from editing articles.

luckylucky

Here Jim236 I think you misunderstood my post. So to clarify I'll go back over.

luckylucky wrote: »

But here's the thing. If The IRA were a successful soccer team instead of a terrorist/freedom fighter group..

I tried to stay impartial on them, so hence the terrorist/freedom fighter tag. Some people think of them as terrorists and some as freedom fighters.

luckylucky wrote: »

they'd be known as British wouldn't they by the UK media, funny that though they were known as an Irish terrorist group even though the majority of them are not from the actual country of Ireland..... ok going off on a bit of a tangent I know

You're taking what I said here totally out of context. I for one minute didn't say or even imply that the 800,000 Catholics in the north should not be regarded as Irish, in fact if anything I think down South we don't give half enough respect to what our Northern Brethren have gone through. To me they are our brothers. I was merely having a dig at the British Media for its double standards, if something is perceived as good in NI it's labeled as British and if bad it's labeled as Irish.