Poker and the tax man?

zonic man

Hi guys
Newbie here just joined,as off three years ago i have been playing poker full time on the internet and as off the last year or so have been making some large sums off money on a weekly basic,i receive no income from anywhere else state or otherwise.At the moment in time the state for all they know i am not even in the country.
Does any know my postion on this in regards to tax etc.Am i breaking a law here that will come back to haunt me?
ty and gl 2 any playing irish open,see you on the final table :cool:

max_power

Not taxable.

strewelpeter

Not only do you get tax free income, you can claim the dole as well, if you happen to be a low life scumbag.

Ollieboy

strewelpeter wrote: »

Not only do you get tax free income, you can claim the dole as well, if you happen to be a low life scumbag.

This wouldn't be totally correct. I'm guessing your not a irish citizen and have never work in this country, if thats correct you would have no entitlement to social welfare payments now or in the future. The problem with your situtation is on retirement at 65, you will not get any pension and the state will have no reponsiblilty towards you. I'm sure other people will know more details about this, but currently your breaking no laws.

ElectraBlue

If you are an Irish Citizen and not in full-time employment (other than poker playing of course!) you should be sign on for Jobseekers Allowance regardless if you are raking it in or a donk of the highest order!

You will be glad of it some day, plus the rent allowances, medical card, fuel allowance and household benefits (if you are on it long term that is) that you may also be entitled to.

As Ollie says, you will need a pension and some form of security when you are ill. infirm and unable to play or limited from playing in some other form... Nursing homes have a strict 9pm curfew afaik :rolleyes:

pok3rplaya

Does anyone know if it's important to file tax returns and declare non-taxable income or is it ok to just to nothing?

thedini

pok3rplaya wrote: »

Does anyone know if it's important to file tax returns and declare non-taxable income or is it ok to just to nothing?

you don't have to file anything.

Ollieboy

pok3rplaya wrote: »

Does anyone know if it's important to file tax returns and declare non-taxable income or is it ok to just to nothing?

the important point here is to be register, if you don't work register for social welfare. You dont need to make any returns for tax if your winnings are poker, but you might be ask in the future too prove this by the revenue so be careful of that.

corkie123

as far as i know gambling winnings are not taxable . but as far as singing on goes u can do that but u will be asked to show any bank accounts to them and if u have over a set amount in the bank u get no money.but they will want to know were u get your money from.

this might suit u as if u are ever asked were your money comes from u can show them .and cab will not be after u for making money from the wrong sources:D:D

thedini

ElectraBlue wrote: »

If you are an Irish Citizen and not in full-time employment (other than poker playing of course!) you should be sign on for Jobseekers Allowance regardless if you are raking it in or a donk of the highest order!

You will be glad of it some day, plus the rent allowances, medical card, fuel allowance and household benefits (if you are on it long term that is) that you may also be entitled to.

As Ollie says, you will need a pension and some form of security when you are ill. infirm and unable to play or limited from playing in some other form... Nursing homes have a strict 9pm curfew afaik :rolleyes:

This is just wrong, if poker is your full-time job then you should not be claiming/registering for anything, end of.

Victor

The risk is if they see you as a professional gambler. However, this category is usually kept for the high rollers and bookies / casinos.

No harm to talk though.

30something

thedini wrote: »

you don't have to file anything.

ollieboy wrote:

You dont need to make any returns for tax if your winnings are poker

Eh? We have a self assessment tax regime. Everyone is legally obliged to make a tax return even if the return states you earned no taxable income. You can be prosecuted for failing to make tax returns.

thedini

30something wrote: »

Eh? We have a self assessment tax regime. Everyone is legally obliged to make a tax return even if the return states you earned no taxable income. You can be prosecuted for failing to make tax returns.

really since when:rolleyes:

ElectraBlue

You are missing the point... If you are not working you should be signing on or making tax returns no matter how small - to build up credits for the future. you can't just turn up at age of 66 and expect a state pension to be available for you.

Any money you have will be taken into account as means, and the JSA amount you are entitled to will be adjusted accordingly. You can be honest and say you are a 'successful' poker player "in between looking for a real job"... they will just list you as a gambler(!) I'm sure the average poker player will show bank accounts with wild swings from time to time.
Plus you are forgetting the variance factor. Those 3-4 months per year where you earn a big fat ZERO. Then the dole along with all the support allowances will be one thing bringing in the bread to feed you, to keep that roof over your head.

If you are earning 10-30 times the JSA via poker then you should be declaring yourself self-employed and contributing to the PRSI system to ensure you get credits put towards claiming a future pension as well as contributing to the good of the economy. :rolleyes:

thedini

I wasn't missing the point, on the contrary, I was disagreeing with you that you should be signing on 'even if you are raking it in'. As for those wild swings when you are earning zero for 3/4 months, this does not entitle you to sign on, this happens all the time for sole traders/ companies whatever. You just can't say damn, I am hitting a bad patch and sign on.

Jesus Wept

ElectraBlue wrote: »

You are missing the point... If you are not working you should be signing on or making tax returns no matter how small - to build up credits for the future. you can't just turn up at age of 66 and expect a state pension to be available for you.

Any money you have will be taken into account as means, and the JSA amount you are entitled to will be adjusted accordingly. You can be honest and say you are a 'successful' poker player "in between looking for a real job"... they will just list you as a gambler(!) I'm sure the average poker player will show bank accounts with wild swings from time to time.
Plus you are forgetting the variance factor. Those 3-4 months per year where you earn a big fat ZERO. Then the dole along with all the support allowances will be one thing bringing in the bread to feed you, to keep that roof over your head.

If you are earning 10-30 times the JSA via poker then you should be declaring yourself self-employed and contributing to the PRSI system to ensure you get credits put towards claiming a future pension as well as contributing to the good of the economy. :rolleyes:

Are all your posts pisstakes or not, the way you end them with :rolleyes:, it's hard to tell.

P.S: What is JSA?

sickpuppy

JSA JOB SEEKERS ALLOWANCE fancy word for the scratcher id say.

5starpool

If you are on the dole you should be actively looking for a job as far as I am concerned. You should not ever sign on to supplement poker income and not look for a job imo, as this would amount to fraud in my book.

ElectraBlue

The-Rigger wrote: »

Are all your posts pisstakes or not, the way you end them with :rolleyes:, it's hard to tell.

P.S: What is JSA?

Sorry... the smilie was for the last bit i.e. 'the good of the economy'. The rest was serious. JSA = Jobseekers Allowance

thedini wrote: »

I wasn't missing the point, on the contrary, I was disagreeing with you that you should be signing on 'even if you are raking it in'. As for those wild swings when you are earning zero for 3/4 months, this does not entitle you to sign on, this happens all the time for sole traders/ companies whatever. You just can't say damn, I am hitting a bad patch and sign on.

A sole-trader is very different from poker player, and subjected to different tax rules too, but I accept your example as valid. There are wild swings in every business, sole traders and companies depend on banks to extend credit to help them through these rough patches. But no bank is going to extend credit to a poker player going through a losing patch!

I know people who are working 18-25 hours a week and signing on for €25-50pw. They had no choice - companies reduced their hours and they can't find a job elsewhere but if they leave the current job of their own accord they will be disquailified from JSA(!) As part of the condition to get JSA is to make themselves available employment, any poker player telling his Decision Officer that he's 'not available for work' because of poker may find himself disqualified.

During the 'wild swings' you don't get anything extra: you just get the same amount that you are means tested for. That paltry amount will be a lifeline during the rough times.

Did you know: you are allowed to have 20k in the bank and still get full rate JSA...

I'm not going to argue on the morales of claiming JSA as a winning poker player, I'm only advocating signing on for the credits.

HIVeindhoven

5starpool wrote: »

If you are on the dole you should be actively looking for a job as far as I am concerned. You should not ever sign on to supplement poker income and not look for a job imo, as this would amount to fraud in my book.

I'd imagine there is quite a few doing it, the chances of getting caught are so slim. Its a soft touch.
Some people might even go as far as to play poker, work a part time job that pays 5-600 a week AND claim dole while bragging about it on a publicly accesible blog, but i'd say most arent that stupid and just keep their heads down, leeching us slowly.

thedini

ElectraBlue wrote: »

Sorry... the smilie was for the last bit i.e. 'the good of the economy'. The rest was serious. JSA = Jobseekers Allowance



A sole-trader is very different from poker player, and subjected to different tax rules too, but I accept your example as valid. There are wild swings in every business, sole traders and companies depend on banks to extend credit to help them through these rough patches. But no bank is going to extend credit to a poker player going through a losing patch!

I know people who are working 18-25 hours a week and signing on for €25-50pw. They had no choice - companies reduced their hours and they can't find a job elsewhere but if they leave the current job of their own accord they will be disquailified from JSA(!) As part of the condition to get JSA is to make themselves available employment, any poker player telling his Decision Officer that he's 'not available for work' because of poker may find himself disqualified.

During the 'wild swings' you don't get anything extra: you just get the same amount that you are means tested for. That paltry amount will be a lifeline during the rough times.

Did you know: you are allowed to have 20k in the bank and still get full rate JSA...

I'm not going to argue on the morales of claiming JSA as a winning poker player, I'm only advocating signing on for the credits.

it sounds like you are lecturing tbh, and basically all you are doing is advocating that all poker players should sign on.

twitch1984

when you withdraw get a letter to say it is winnings. that way if you were to run into the tax man you can prove that it was from gambling that you recieved the money and they can do nothing about it

ElectraBlue

thedini wrote: »

it sounds like you are lecturing tbh, and basically all you are doing is advocating that all poker players should sign on.

Not all players.... only those who are officially 'unemployed' and have no other source of income. Winning from poker are not taxable, they are officially not seen as income at all but will be calculated as means and you get a pro-rata JSA if you exceed the means test.

There's nothing illegal about it.

RoundTower

ElectraBlue wrote: »

You are missing the point... If you are not working you should be signing on or making tax returns no matter how small - to build up credits for the future. you can't just turn up at age of 66 and expect a state pension to be available for you.

even though this guy is recommending you be a scumbag NickyOD-style fraudster, he does have a good point. It might turn out to be useful to have paid some PRSI stamps, they entitle you to a lot of benefits down the road.

At the moment I pay PRSI but no income tax, I think this is probably the best solution for me.

RoundTower

ElectraBlue wrote: »

Not all players.... only those who are officially 'unemployed' and have no other source of income. Winning from poker are not taxable, they are officially not seen as income at all but will be calculated as means and you get a pro-rata JSA if you exceed the means test.

There's nothing illegal about it.

of course it's illegal for someone who is not seeking employment to claim the dole.

NickyOD

strewelpeter wrote: »

Not only do you get tax free income, you can claim the dole as well, if you happen to be a low life scumbag.

Just to be clear, as I presume from your last comment on the subject that you're referring to me, I paid PRSI stamps for 10 years and as such this was money I was entitled to when I wasn't working, whether I was playing poker or not. I also didn't claim anything for the first 2 years I played poker for a living and was completely transparrent about poker income to the sw office. If you're entitled to anything at all from the current government you'd be an idiot not to claim it.

Be very careful who you go around calling a "low life scumbag" in future. If you don't you'll just end up making a fool of yuorself.

thedini

RoundTower wrote: »

even though this guy is recommending you be a scumbag NickyOD-style fraudster, he does have a good point. It might turn out to be useful to have paid some PRSI stamps, they entitle you to a lot of benefits down the road.

At the moment I pay PRSI but no income tax, I think this is probably the best solution for me.

Of course it's useful to have the paid contributions I just don't think that Electra is advocating it in the correct way.

HIVeindhoven

NickyOD wrote: »

Just to be clear, as I presume from your last comment on the subject that you're referring to me, I paid PRSI stamps for 10 years and as such this was money I was entitled to when I wasn't working, whether I was playing poker or not. I also didn't claim anything for the first 2 years I played poker for a living and was completely transparrent about poker income to the sw office. If you're entitled to anything at all from the current government you'd be an idiot not to claim it.

Be very careful who you go around calling a "low life scumbag" in future. If you don't you'll just end up making a fool of yuorself.

From your blog.
"Unfortunately €197 isn't really enough for me to survive on so it's a good thing that like most other people I know who also draw the dole I actually have a part time job where I earn a further €400-€500 a week tax free. So much for the recession! "

Claiming the dole when already earning 500-600E a week TAX FREE makes you a scumbag . If earning the equivalent of the avg industrial wage tax free isnt good enough for then tough. Just because you have paid PRSI in the past doesnt exempt you.

strewelpeter

NickyOD wrote: »

Just to be clear, as I presume from your last comment on the subject that you're referring to me

If the cap fits...

NickyOD

HIVeindhoven wrote: »

From your blog.
"Unfortunately €197 isn't really enough for me to survive on so it's a good thing that like most other people I know who also draw the dole I actually have a part time job where I earn a further €400-€500 a week tax free. So much for the recession! "

Claiming the dole when already earning 500-600E a week TAX FREE makes you a scumbag . If earning the equivalent of the avg industrial wage tax free isnt good enough for then tough. Just because you have paid PRSI in the past doesnt exempt you

Actualy it's €205 a week now and that was clearly a satirical article on the state of the countries employment crisis, not a true reflection of my own situation. I don't claim the full dole and I don't earn €500 a week tax free on the side, but I know plenty of people who do and to be honest I don't blame them one bit.

HIVeindhoven

NickyOD wrote: »

Actualy it's €205 a week now and that was clearly a satirical article on the state of the countries employment crisis, not a true reflection of my own situation. I don't claim the full dole and I don't earn €500 a week tax free on the side, but I know plenty of people who do and to be honest I don't blame them one bit.

LOL, clearly.