Information on soldiers in WW1

R0C

I'm looking for info on a family member, Patrick Joesph (Paddy) Jennings, born in Claremorris, County Mayo in 1883, joined the Connaught Rangers and was killed in India in I believe 1901 though I see he is listed in the 1901 census so he may have been killed up to 1903.

I'm unable to gather any further information on him, and have no idea where to look. I am currently trying to compile a family tree on ancestry.co.uk so would like to gather this information.

I know this is before the Great War, but I see mentions of the Connaught Rangers in this thread already so perhaps someone could point me in the right direction?

Thank you.

R.Dub.Fusilier

R0C wrote: »

I'm looking for info on a family member, Patrick Joesph (Paddy) Jennings, born in Claremorris, County Mayo in 1883, joined the Connaught Rangers and was killed in India in I believe 1901 though I see he is listed in the 1901 census so he may have been killed up to 1903.

I know this is before the Great War, but I see mentions of the Connaught Rangers in this thread already so perhaps someone could point me in the right direction?

Thank you.

there is no P Jennings of the Connaughts listed as casualty for Boer War so you might be able to rule that out. there is service records for a patrick jennings from church street claremorris but they are from 1887 and this PJ was 25 at the time, could this be a relative of the above?

R0C

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

there is no P Jennings of the Connaughts listed as casualty for Boer War so you might be able to rule that out. there is service records for a patrick jennings from church street claremorris but they are from 1887 and this PJ was 25 at the time, could this be a relative of the above?

Thanks for the quick response!

It very well could be a relation, but I'm afraid I don't have the genealogy to be sure at the moment. I'll have to look deeper into that.

The 1901 Census has the Patrick I'm searching for listed at James Street, Claremorris. I have a photo of him which perhaps I can attach? Maybe the uniform could give more clues as to the year, or if this definitely is a Connaught Rangers uniform as I am only going by clues from my elderly Grandmother.

R0C

I've just spoken to my Grandmother on this again and she *thinks* he was around 18 when he died, and he died in India, and as far as she knew he was in the Connaught Rangers. That's really all the information we have. So it is very possible he died later than 1901, he may have been early 20s when he died, so I guess I need to look into anyone of that name during those years in India.

arnhem44

The hat badge is the giveaway here,it looks like a Munster Fusiliers badge or possibly Dublin Fusiliers and most certainly without a doubt it is not a Connaught Rangers badge so he may in fact of been in a different regiment or maybe served in more than one regiment.

R0C

arnhem44 wrote: »

The hat badge is the giveaway here,it looks like a Munster Fusiliers badge or possibly Dublin Fusiliers and most certainly without a doubt it is not a Connaught Rangers badge so he may in fact of been in a different regiment or maybe served in more than one regiment.

I am wondering now if my Grandmother's info may be confused with another member of the family who WAS in the Connaught Rangers, perhaps this Patrick Jennings that R.Dub.Fusilier has found listed. It's a small town so it's very likely they are of the same family.

I do notice what looks like a horse whip under this Patrick's arm in the picture above.

My Grandmother still tells me that he was killed in India. Unfortunately I don't have any other living source to give me information.

Hopefully someone will be able to supply more info based on the uniform.

Thanks for your help.

brianthebard

If he was in the connacht rangers you could get in touch with the galway museum, they have had exhibitions about the rangers in the recent past and I know of one guy whos M.Litt was about the Rangers and who works/helps out at the museum, so there might be some information to be found there. That's a long shot though.

R.Dub.Fusilier

arnhem44 wrote: »

The hat badge is the giveaway here,it looks like a Munster Fusiliers badge or possibly Dublin Fusiliers and most certainly without a doubt it is not a Connaught Rangers badge so he may in fact of been in a different regiment or maybe served in more than one regiment.

the cap badge is the munsters but as you said he could have served in one or more regiments. and it was not un-common for fathers sons ect to follow each other into a regiment like the Connaught Rangers.

johnny_doyle

possibly your man

Name:Patrick Jennings
Birth Place:Claremorris
Residence:Claremorris
Death Date:6 Oct 1918
Death Location:India
Enlistment Location:Claremorris
Rank:A/L/Corporal
Regiment:Corps of Military Police
Battalion:Foot Branch
Number P/11737
Type of Casualty Died
Theatre of War:Asiatic Theatres
Comments:Formerly 4/5907, Connaught Rangers.

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=1481418

johnny_doyle

his service record show him as 4/5967; enlisted Nov 1915. Next of kin Miss Maggie Jennings, Church St, Claremorris. A letter from William Jennings care of Patrick Crowley enquires about a will and the deceased belongings and mentions that the parents are deceased. Mentions a brother in the army and another killed in the war. Letter from a sister Mrs Foster(?)

R0C

Oh, I missed the updated replies to this thread, that definitely seems to be our guy, the other names match up. Thank you so much!

I'll do some more research to follow this up.

R0C

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

the cap badge is the munsters but as you said he could have served in one or more regiments. and it was not un-common for fathers sons ect to follow each other into a regiment like the Connaught Rangers.

Thanks for the info, would you be able to recommend to me a resource or place I could post pictures of several other uniforms where badges are visible?

I'm going back through our old family photos and there are pictures of many family members in uniform, but I have no idea what regiments they belonged to or when they were in the service.

R.Dub.Fusilier

R0C wrote: »

Thanks for the info, would you be able to recommend to me a resource or place I could post pictures of several other uniforms where badges are visible?

I'm going back through our old family photos and there are pictures of many family members in uniform, but I have no idea what regiments they belonged to or when they were in the service.

you should post them up here. there are some posters here who have a wide range of knowledge on all things military and will , i'm sure, be willing to help you.

R0C

Okay, great, well for now here's another one of William Jennings with what looks to me like a slightly different uniform.



This seems to be the other half of the same picture, the hat is on view here.



Can anyone tell me what this is?

Thanks

R.Dub.Fusilier

chances are the top photo is Munster Fusiliers and the bottom one is the Munsters. great photos by the way.

R0C

Thank you, R.Dub.Fusilier.

Here is another one, but this is from WWII I believe so perhaps I should post this elsewhere.

FiSe

Is this an US Army uniform?

R0C

I don't know, all I know is they grew up and married in their home county of Mayo and were still pictured there in the late 30s/early 1940s, after that I'm not sure whether they went to the UK or US. This picture would've been taken in the 40s though so most likely has to be WWII.

Again, unfortunately no-one seems to remember any other information.

R0C

I've made a separate thread here for some of my WWII pictures which I'm seeking identification on.

elverstown

Hi all,
I have read this thread a few times and I find it very interisting, re. James giltrap, would like to be able to contact curiousgal, but havent enough posts yet. My first cousins twice removed, richard and george graham Giltrap, born c.1894 & 1896, Lucan, may have been in the army, how do I check? have a family note that one of them died in the "blitz" 1944?
D

johnny_doyle

a quick check on Ancestry gives the following Medal Card entries (but nothing to confirm if they are your chaps)

Name:George G Giltrap
Regiment or Corps:Army Service Corps
Regimental Number:S4/140255

Posted to Egypt November 1915. Awarded the 1915 Star, British War Medal and Victory Medal. Note to say rank = Acting Sergeant.

No service or pension record found.

Name:Richard Giltrap
Regiment or Corps:Irish Guards
Regimental Number:4004

Disembarkation date given as 13/8/14; presume to France as no theatre listed. British War Medal and Victory Medal. There's no roll number for a 1914 Star but if he entered theatre he should have been eligible for this award.

If this is your man, the Irish Guards service records are available but have to be written for.

There is another record for a Richard Henry Giltrap, London Regiment who was killed

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=598438

but his memorial record indicates he was from Tyrellpass.

Can you confirm the Lucan bit? I can see a Richard of the right birth year in Lucan in the 1911 census but with no Graham. There is however a Richard and Graham George in Elverstown, Kildare in the 1901 and 1911 census (which has more obvious links to your user id) but Richard would be born before 1894.

Those killed in the blitz would be on the CWGC website but I only see a Thomas Giltrap from Scotland who died overseas.

FiSe

Wouldn't 'blitz' refer to the LW raids during the BoB, ie summer 1940 - spring 1941?
1944 it's more like V1/V2 attack. That could explain the missing name from the Blitz roll?

johnny_doyle

FiSe wrote: »

Wouldn't 'blitz' refer to the LW raids during the BoB, ie summer 1940 - spring 1941?
1944 it's more like V1/V2 attack. That could explain the missing name from the Blitz roll?

unlike civilians killed in WW1, all civilians killed in the UK as a result of WW2 action are recorded on the CWGC database (barring errors and unintentional ommissions). Over 66000 recorded.

Hopefully the following link works OK which lists some of those with the rank "Civilian"

http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_reports.aspx?cemetery=4004889&mode=1&tab=7&page=1

johnny_doyle

one of those on the census for Elverstown is Samuel Cope Giltrap. There is a probate record for him on Ancestry marking date of death as 30th May 1940 in Kildare. The probate was sorted in Llandudno with probate granted to Richard Giltrap, farmer.

There's a probate record for a William Giltrap from Kildare who died 3rd March 1928.

Found a marriage record for a George G Giltrap in Swansea, 1923 plus a death record for 55 year old George G Giltrap in Swansea in 1950. Obviously not sure if this is the same man but there are no George G Giltrap births in England or Wales.

elverstown

Hi Jonny Doyle,
thanks for that info, you have found bits of info that 4 months of browsing didnt turn up. giltraps of elverstown is my granmothers birthplace, and where i live. her father, richard, had two brothers who set up buisness in lucan , sam as hardware, henry(harry) as a butcher. Sam had no children, henry had 9, the last 3 being triplets, mother and one child died shortly after. George and richard were older children. Richard seems to have been the black sheep of the family, and left ireland in qustianable circumstances, and george had limited contact with home.
Samuel cope(greatgranmother cope from castledermot) giltrap was my great uncle, progressive farmer, not married , died relativly young.
I have a copy of a will from William giltrap, my fourth great granfather of 1828,
which, lists all his children. I am looking for any other wills, and Williams siblings.
sorry I am a one finger typer, mildly dislexlic, cant spell or get spellcheck to work, and dont see my mistakes untill i read the about 3 times. I love techknow
ledgely, but i struggle to make it work for me.
D

Curiousgal

Johnny_Doyle - you are in danger of knowing more about the Giltraps than the Giltraps themselves! I'm very impressed by your discoveries for D from Elverstown. He and I are related in some way - being descended from the Giltraps of Wicklow. So glad you could find out info for him on Richard and George Graham - the same way you did on James A. Giltrap for me. They would have been cousins of each other - various times removed!

Well done - and I'm learning even more thanks to your and D from Elverstown's help. So thank you.

johnny_doyle

elverstown wrote: »

Hi Jonny Doyle,
thanks for that info, you have found bits of info that 4 months of browsing didnt turn up. giltraps of elverstown is my granmothers birthplace, and where i live. her father, richard, had two brothers who set up buisness in lucan , sam as hardware, henry(harry) as a butcher. Sam had no children, henry had 9, the last 3 being triplets, mother and one child died shortly after. George and richard were older children. Richard seems to have been the black sheep of the family, and left ireland in qustianable circumstances, and george had limited contact with home.
Samuel cope(greatgranmother cope from castledermot) giltrap was my great uncle, progressive farmer, not married , died relativly young.
I have a copy of a will from William giltrap, my fourth great granfather of 1828,
which, lists all his children. I am looking for any other wills, and Williams siblings.
sorry I am a one finger typer, mildly dislexlic, cant spell or get spellcheck to work, and dont see my mistakes untill i read the about 3 times. I love techknow
ledgely, but i struggle to make it work for me.
D

Hi Dermott,

I have to confess that I'd not heard of Elverstown before your posts.

My grandfather had some good friends from Castledermot whose names embarrassingly escape me.

There is one record on irishgenealogy.ie re Giltraps in Elverstown :

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/5116390555191

which moved to Co Dublin for the benefit of the baptism.

I like the sound of Richard ;-) There is a death recorded in Herefordshire in 1978 for a Richard Giltrap born 4th January 1894. No birth in the UK matches; no marriage record found.

There is a blog that mentions Giltrap, Elverstown and a chap by the name of Samuel Cope :

http://athyeyeonthepast.blogspot.com/2010/03/eye-on-past-718.html



Just to mess things around, the LDS Pilot website has a death record for a Graham G Giltrap which could be your George Graham..... :

Name: Graham G Giltrap
Registration District: Naas
Event Type: DEATHS
Registration Quarter and Year: Oct - Dec 1954
Estimated Birth Year: 1895
Age (at Death): 59

Do you have any more info re the chap you think was killed in WW2?

johnny_doyle

Curiousgal wrote: »

Johnny_Doyle - you are in danger of knowing more about the Giltraps than the Giltraps themselves! I'm very impressed by your discoveries for D from Elverstown. He and I are related in some way - being descended from the Giltraps of Wicklow. So glad you could find out info for him on Richard and George Graham - the same way you did on James A. Giltrap for me. They would have been cousins of each other - various times removed!

Well done - and I'm learning even more thanks to your and D from Elverstown's help. So thank you.

I figure there must be some tie up re the Giltraps in Kildare, Dublin, Wicklow. It's not that common a name nor that widespread an area. Be interesting to see if it would be possible to link them together but Irish records being what they are it could be a forlorn hope.

Curiousgal

There is definitely a tie up between the Giltraps - without wishing to say it too loudly... they were soldiers who came over with Cromwell! Both D and I had been aware of this dubious past before we hooked up on another website ;-) The furthest I can go back is my great great great grandfather Henry, a tailor/woollen draper from Dunlavin, Co. Wicklow, born probably around 1800. Somewhere along the line either he or one of his grandfathers is most probably a brother of one of D's. We have found out some interesting claims they made for compensation after the 1798 Rebellion for damaged property - indicating that they had been given land confiscated from the locals originally, which obviously didn't go down too well! There's even one account from a Canadian descendent online about a Mrs. Giltrap (D's direct ancestor I believe) and her maid successfully defending their home from a group of marauding rebels, smoking one of them back up the chimney, making them think soldiers were on the premises!

But remembering this is a thread on WWI soldiers, I'm delighted to tell you that this week I received an invitation from Dublin's Lord Mayor to a wine reception for people who donated items/info to the Royal Dublin Fusiliers Association archives this year. After you discovered all that info on James Giltrap, i.e. that he had more army discharges than the average battalion ;-), I donated a copy of the letters he wrote as an RDF soldier in Karachi in 1891. So at the reception, I plan to toast James and also all of you on this site who remember these men - if only they knew they haven't been forgotten!

elverstown

Thanks again JD,
From a family Bible I have my cousin Richard (twice removed, and black sheep) birth date as Jany 4th 1894. well found! I think that might be news to his closer family.
The George G you mentoned would be my grans brother. Rathmore, naas.
What confuses things is the repeated use of the same first names ie. William, Richard, Samuel, George, Henry and John, and add mothers maiden name, ie. Cope, Graham and Brown ( all from Castledermot), and then marry their first cousins:eek:
The blog you mentioned, of George Henry Graham, who would be my great grans brother, and I have his diary of 1857, and a copy of his diary of the voyage to New Zealand.
While there are not so many Giltraps around now, there were in the 1800's.
There are at least ten headstones in the graveyard of Hollywood church.
A number of them being tenant farmers of Lord Waterford/Rev Beresford, in an area called Mullica lower, others were land stewards/estate managers, including one Joseph, who was in Fota Cork.
Are the records from Lord waterfords estates available? and what did Richard do for his last sixty years? I will try and find out why he had to leave Ireland.
D:D