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Leinster Orbital Route (DOOR) Feasibility Report

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    Thanks for that Bards. So, the LOR to start at, probably, the M7/M9 interchange. And, considerable "difficulties" (i.e. mountains) complicate plans to connect it with the M11, thus perplexing the designers for now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    I'm surprised this thread hasn't received more replies. Do people think its a good idea in principle if it was to be done properly?

    Also, the name: M100? M60? M80?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    Hmmm...
    Feasibility Cost Estimate for the scheme is in the range €1.4 to €2.2 billion inclusive of VAT, assuming an opening year of 2016. Based on a mid-point cost estimate, this equates to a Present Value of Costs of some €768m (excluding VAT) in 2006 prices.

    The scheme provides benefits in excess of costs of some €535m in Net Present Value terms, thereby providing a robust economic rate of return. The Benefit Cost Ratio for the project is expected to be approximately 2.0.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    Hmmm...

    Not knowing anything about cost benefit analyses, this sounds beneficial...but, then again, you'd expect an NRA-commissioned report to say that I suppose. The LOR would link all the interurbans properly, and provide Galway, Limerick, Cork and Waterford with continuous motorway to Belfast and vice versa. The question is, is it really neccessary?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    I think it's necessary. But only if Dublin contains its growth within more-or-less the present limits. That means building higher-density.

    If sprawl just continues out to meet the new bypass then it will have been a complete waste of time.

    But obviously, public transport infrastructure projects have to take priority now - so this one could be put on the backburner for quite a long time. 2016 seems optimistic.


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  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 4,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭ G_R


    i think that it is important, but not as important MN and the interconnector. Once they are complete, then it should be built.

    It would have many advantages that i can see, greater conectivity between most of the regional cities, better links to all the towns on the route and less traffic on the M50.

    I think we can do without it for the next couple of years, but all the planning and preparatory works should be done so that when funding in available it can begin straight away.

    dares my 2 cents anyways:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    The problem with planning (and enabling) works is that they can often cost tens of millions (even hundreds of millions) themselves - and when we're in a position such as this - even preparatory works find themselves being shelved. :(


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    Furet wrote: »
    I'm surprised this thread hasn't received more replies. Do people think its a good idea in principle if it was to be done properly?

    Also, the name: M100? M60? M80?
    Those numbers don't fit the National numbering scheme. THe LOR would have to be 1-50 and 40 is the only round number not taken. So, M40.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭ Cool Mo D


    Other possibilities, the M34, or even the M9.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    M40. Irelands orbital.
    M50, Dublins C ring car pack
    M20 Limerick SRR

    M30 anyone? Galway?
    M10 Kiilkenny spur

    M60 anyone, Letterkenny Outer ring road:D

    Since I'm so enthusiastic and ambitous for Irelands new road network under another boom era (starting next week) We should put all our ring roads counting in tens. So whos gonna have the M70? Tralee anyone, Tralee needs it's orbital soon.


    But back on a swwwwwerious note. I think they should build the Outer Ring road in phrases.
    The ones I'd like to see go ahead would be
    The M9 to the M4 just east of enfield as Phase 1. This is the longest section I think. Phase two should be the Drogeheda to Navan section. The rest can **** itself in the bog.....:D Just kidding. But I do think It's a bit unrealisitc to build this in one go though.:D


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    This is my overall layout of the Outer ring road. This road will greatly benifet the interurbans, and direct motorway traffic away from the suburbia and urban sprawl.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭ marmurr1916


    If the N80 from Carlow to Enniscorthy was upgraded to motorway, the mountains problem would largely be avoided, and there would still be a motorway ring connecting southern Leinster with northern Leinster.

    The distance from the junction of the existing N11/N80 to the junction of the existing N80/M9 is less than 40km.

    I know the terrain between Carlow and near Enniscorthy is not flat, but it's considerably less mountainous than any route closer to Dublin, and the motorway could follow the line of the River Slaney valley as the N80 does now.

    The DOOR itself could run from the M1 to the junction of the M9/M7, essentially a northern extension to the M9.

    Then the corridor would continue southwards along the existing M9, then south-east towards the N/M11 near Enniscorthy. The N/M11 is due to be upgraded to motorway here in the future.

    This would give a continuous motorway from Wexford/Waterford to north of Dublin via Carlow, Naas and on to near Drogheda, without going anywhere near Dublin.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    If the N80 from Carlow to Enniscorthy was upgraded to motorway, the mountains problem would largely be avoided, and there would still be a motorway ring connecting southern Leinster with northern Leinster.

    The distance from the junction of the existing N11/N80 to the junction of the existing N80/M9 is less than 40km.

    I know the terrain between Carlow and near Enniscorthy is not flat, but it's considerably less mountainous than any route closer to Dublin, and the motorway could follow the line of the River Slaney valley as the N80 does now.

    The DOOR itself could run from the M1 to the junction of the M9/M7,
    essentially a northern extension to the M9.

    Then the corridor would continue southwards along the existing M9, then south-east towards the N/M11 near Enniscorthy. The N/M11 is due to be upgraded to motorway here in the future.

    This would give a continuous motorway from Wexford/Waterford to north of Dublin via Carlow, Naas and on to near Drogheda, without going anywhere near Dublin.

    Before I go into any great detail.

    Are you from Enniscorthy? You do know there is no real benifet connect a motorway from the SE to the outer ring.
    • It would cost astronomical money.
    • It wouldn't justify or generate enough traffic
    • Terrain is not flat
    • M11 already will do what the "south leg" Outer ring road will do and what your asking it to do.
    • M11 has direct access to the M50 and M1 already.
    • M9 connects the majority of the SE. if smaller towns such as Ennicorthy New Ross want to feed onto the road, Secondary and R roads are sufficient enough to carry the local traffic to the motorways
    • The purpose of The outerring road is to direct as much long distance traffic away from Dublin Who want to connect to the likes of the M1 and the North. Not every route is going to be connect and not every single town is going to be connected. Placces like Enniscorthy and Wexford won't have the traffic numbers to have any impact around Dublin for crying out loud.
    I think your idea is not only stupid and wastful, but crazy. Most of the SE, will be connected to the Outer ring road, not every town will be, and thats the way it''s going to be. So **** Enniscorthy. They can use the N80 to connect with the M9. This fantasy nonsense annoys me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,031 ✭✭✭ kaizersoze


    mysterious wrote: »
    I think your idea is not only stupid and wastful, but crazy. Most of the SE, will be connected to the Outer ring road, not every town will be, and thats the way it''s going to be. So **** Enniscorthy. They can use the N80 to connect with the M9. This fantasy nonsense annoys me.

    A bit rich comming from someone who reckons a 1000 tractors a day use the Athlone bypass. :rolleyes:
    No need for ignorance so wind your neck in.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    kaizersoze wrote: »
    A bit rich comming from someone who reckons a 1000 tractors a day use the Athlone bypass. :rolleyes:
    No need for ignorance so wind your neck in.

    Practise what you preach and deal with your own ignorance. We are not talking about the Athlone bypass on this thread, if you really have this rush to get a dig at me on this issue, go to that thread. You can goad at me all you want if you can prove me wrong with this opinion of mine.

    I did state Max of 1000 tractors a day, considering 30,000 vehicles a day use it.

    There was nothing ignorant in my post either.:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,623 ✭✭✭ Bards


    mysterious wrote: »
    Practise what you preach and deal with your own ignorance. We are not talking about the Athlone bypass on this thread, if you really have this rush to get a dig at me on this issue, go to that thread. You can goad at me all you want if you can prove me wrong with this opinion of mine.

    I did state Max of 1000 tractors a day, considering 30,000 vehicles a day use it.

    There was nothing ignorant in my post either.:rolleyes:

    A bit rich comming from someone who loves to bring up the M9 at every turn


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    Bards wrote: »
    A bit rich comming from someone who loves to bring up the M9 at every turn

    It's even more pathetic that you had to bring it up yourself:D

    Do you want a shovel, this thread is about Leinster orbital, it was you who mentioned M9;):D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,623 ✭✭✭ Bards


    mysterious wrote: »
    It's even more pathetic that you had to bring it up yourself:D

    Do you want a shovel, this thread is about Leinster orbital, it was you who mentioned M9;):D

    go and have another read through this thread and count how many instances of M9 there are?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭ marmurr1916


    mysterious wrote: »
    Before I go into any great detail.

    Are you from Enniscorthy? You do know there is no real benifet connect a motorway from the SE to the outer ring.
    • It would cost astronomical money.

    It's a less than 40km long section. The price of agricultural land has fallen by nearly 50% in the past couple of years, it's probably set to fall even further ("...the drop in value of agricultural land. Land values nationally have fallen from €18,000/ €20,000 per acre a few years ago to €10,000/€12,000.") That would reduce costs significantly.
    mysterious wrote: »
    [*]It wouldn't justify or generate enough traffic.

    You know this for a certainty? It would form part of a route connecting the south-east to the rest of the country, excluding the south-west.
    mysterious wrote: »
    [*]Terrain is not flat.

    Which is what I said: "I know the terrain between Carlow and near Enniscorthy is not flat".
    mysterious wrote: »
    [*]M11 already will do what the "south leg" Outer ring road will do and what your asking it to do.
    [*]M11 has direct access to the M50 and M1 already.
    [*]M9 connects the majority of the SE. if smaller towns such as Ennicorthy New Ross want to feed onto the road, Secondary and R roads are sufficient enough to carry the local traffic to the motorways
    [*]The purpose of The outerring road is to direct as much long distance traffic away from Dublin Who want to connect to the likes of the M1 and the North. Not every route is going to be connect and not every single town is going to be connected. Placces like Enniscorthy and Wexford won't have the traffic numbers to have any impact around Dublin for crying out loud.
    I think your idea is not only stupid and wastful, but crazy. Most of the SE, will be connected to the Outer ring road, not every town will be, and thats the way it''s going to be. So **** Enniscorthy. They can use the N80 to connect with the M9. This fantasy nonsense annoys me.

    I'm merely talking about upgrading a section of the N80 between Enniscorthy and the Carlow bypass to motorway standard.

    The section in question is less than 40km long.

    If it was upgraded, and the northern section of the proposed orbital motorway was built, then there would be a motorway connection between all parts of Leinster, completely bypassing Dublin and avoiding going anywhere near the M50.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭ serfboard


    It's not a bad idea you have there but there is so much more that needs to be done before it, and the M11 would be one of those (and specifically Arklow-Rathnew).

    Given all the other road and rail infrastructure that needs to be built, given the traffic volumes and given economic circumstances, I'd say you'd be talking about 20+ years, if ever, before it would (should?) be done.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭ D.L.R.


    Yes the M80 could also serve the City of the Sacred Heart :pac:

    seriously not a bad idea on paper but lets be realistic here. A few SE towns would need to double in size first to make it a goer. There's a million other things to do in the places where there's actually lots of people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭ serfboard


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    Yes the M80 could also serve the City of the Sacred Heart :pac:

    Speaking of which, what ever happened that brilliant proposal? ;) "Next stop on the Western Rail Corridor - Sacred Heart Station" (sound of shuffling Zimmer-frames in the background) :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    It's a less than 40km long section. The price of agricultural land has fallen by nearly 50% in the past couple of years, it's probably set to fall even further ("...the drop in value of agricultural land. Land values nationally have fallen from €18,000/ €20,000 per acre a few years ago to €10,000/€12,000.") That would reduce costs significantly.



    You know this for a certainty? It would form part of a route connecting the south-east to the rest of the country, excluding the south-west.



    Which is what I said: "I know the terrain between Carlow and near Enniscorthy is not flat".



    I'm merely talking about upgrading a section of the N80 between Enniscorthy and the Carlow bypass to motorway standard.

    The section in question is less than 40km long.

    If it was upgraded, and the northern section of the proposed orbital motorway was built, then there would be a motorway connection between all parts of Leinster, completely bypassing Dublin and avoiding going anywhere near the M50.


    Sure why not, lets build motorways everywhere, This idea is beyond ludricious, and quite frankly retarded.

    It is a complete waste of money, building another Motorway in the SE ffs. You have two Already Connected to the East coast.You have the M9 automatically connected to the Outer ring, ENOUGH ALREADY.

    People from N80, Ballyjesus and Enniscorthey can use existing roads. The local traffic does not warrent an M80. You really need to get off it.

    ENOUGH OF THIS FANSTASY BULL.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    serfboard wrote: »
    It's not a bad idea you have there but there is so much more that needs to be done before it, and the M11 would be one of those (and specifically Arklow-Rathnew).

    Given all the other road and rail infrastructure that needs to be built, given the traffic volumes and given economic circumstances, I'd say you'd be talking about 20+ years, if ever, before it would (should?) be done.

    It does not need to be done, There does not need to be an M80. We are not buidling motorways to towns the size of my ass. It's perfectly acceptable for towns like New ross to go on a national secondary road such as the N80 to join to the M9 or other motorway links. Motorways are not designed for this balony of all towns in the region directly connected by motorways.

    Do yourself all a favour and look at motorway systems in Germany and UK. They connect cities with populations at least a 100,000. If they built motorways to all the towns around 5,000. Germany would literally be concrete and that's a fact.


    Excuses my french, but seriously this is just redicoulous, do people ever read the nonsnense appearing on ths board.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 invincibleirish


    Agreed with you there Mysterious, this whole Leinster orbital project is little more then pornography for the road fetishists. Sure lets build an M80, we don't have enough rural motorways as it is.

    Forgetting for the moment the likelihood this country will never have the kind of monies it had to pis/s away on any old project, or that with a Green party in power whose job it is to clamp down on waste like this. The Leinster area has excellent Motorway connections as is, now its time to end the sprawl and focus on public transport within the GDA. This means interconnector, upgrade + electrification of commuter lines into Dublin, investment in buses and everthing else that goes with it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 Tech3


    Before we can start even really looking at this scheme the main question needs to be asked. Will the road be used often enough?

    It would be a complete waste of taxpayers money in my own opinion. The road network when the inter urbans will be complete will not require this type of scheme in the short term at least. Other projects need to be prioritized first such as the rest of the atlantic corridor ie the M17 and M20 rather than wasting monies in creating routes for this scheme.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 invincibleirish


    tech2 wrote: »
    Before we can start even really looking at this scheme the main question needs to be asked. Will the road be used often enough?

    This road is not needed. People are mentioning this road as a replacement for the M50 carrying all the 'long distance' traffic. What they fail to realise is that the M50,and the Motorways feeding into it are more then adequate, providing we remove commuter traffic out of the equation, we take people out of their cars and onto PT then Leinsters Mway network as is will suffice.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    Agreed with you there Mysterious, this whole Leinster orbital project is little more then pornography for the road fetishists. Sure lets build an M80, we don't have enough rural motorways as it is.

    Forgetting for the moment the likelihood this country will never have the kind of monies it had to pis/s away on any old project, or that with a Green party in power whose job it is to clamp down on waste like this. The Leinster area has excellent Motorway connections as is, now its time to end the sprawl and focus on public transport within the GDA. This means interconnector, upgrade + electrification of commuter lines into Dublin, investment in buses and everthing else that goes with it.

    I think you got mixed up, I'm agaiinst a stupid feeder motorway from the M9 which will be the M80 to link up with the Leinste orbital.

    The leinster orbital will be needed, when the interurbans are done they all end on the M50, The M50 is near capacity and will not be able to cope nor should it have to deal with long distance traffic, that go from the M7 to the M1 for example.

    The motorway system was badly planned which means that the motorway network still needsto be intergrated, the only integration is that all lead onto the M50, whiich is nuts IMO.

    The M80 is a sexual fantasy though:rolleyes:

    Leinster orbital is needed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 invincibleirish


    Fraid we're gonna disagree then Mysterious. The Leinster orbital is a product of unimaginative thinking 1950s UK stylee. The M1/7/4 & 6, as well as the M50 only clog up because of the aforementioned commuter traffic coming from the outlying areas of the GDA.

    Deliver real improvements in PT to the areas outside the M50 and a reduction in commuter traffic should follow, a congestion charge inside the M50 ring should also help alleviate this congestion.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    There needs to be an arterial route across the province rather than dumping on the M50

    Places like Navan Naas Drogheda are all towns with a population of 80k combined, they need good acesss between them. A motorway system all radiating towards the M50 is beyond sensible and logical.

    NRA already state even with this upgrade capacity traffic will fill it.
    • Good public transport system is nothing to do with this L.O. This road is built purposely to remove long distance from around Dublin,
    • intergrate the motorway network.
    • Connect the main towns and cities (Drogheda, Navan, Newbridge, Naas)
    • A complete motorway from Cork/Limerick to The east and north of Ireland
    • It will ease traffic on the N52
    • It will increase safety
    • It will save motorists valuable time.
    • It will free up the Naas DC and inbound roads
    • Open up the country


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