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Leinster Orbital Route (DOOR) Feasibility Report

2

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 Irish and Proud


    A motorway along the current N80 from Enniscorthy to Carlow would seem a tad bit far fetched - would an S2 upgrade not do the job FFS? Better would be a push for the commencement of the M11 Arklow to Rathnew scheme - speaking of same, the road type proposed is standard D2 while the sections it connects are WD2 in width - WD2 could easily be upgraded to D3.

    So the time in campaigning for the M80 might be better spent campaigning for the M11 and its upgrade potential - especially the A to R section (current daily traffic: 20k PCUs approx).

    Let's get the basics right and build the M11, M18 and M20 first - roads which are actually needed!

    Regards!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 Amtmann


    My feeling is that the M20 and M18/17, the N24 upgrade, and the Cork NRR must all be done before the LOR (at this point I am not in favour of the Eastern Bypass).

    I do not believe that the LOR should link with the M11, and I am not in favour of an M80. I think the LOR should be built from the M9/M7 interchange to intersect with the M4, M3, N2 and M1.

    Do people think that all LOR junctions should allow full movements?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭ Carawaystick


    The N2 should be abandoned south of Ardee and rerouted along the existing N33 to the M1. the junction in the vicinity of Slane should only allow access to/from the North.
    The junctions at Drogheda and Navan should be designed so there is no need to use the tolled motorways to access them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,623 ✭✭✭ Bards


    Furet wrote: »
    My feeling is that the Interconnector and Metro North must come first, then the M20 and M18/17, and finally the LOR (at this point I am not in favour of the Eastern Bypass).

    I do not believe that the LOR should link with the M11, and I am not in favour of an M80. I think the LOR should be built from the M9/M7 interchange to intersect with the M4, M3, N2 and M1.

    Do people think that all LOR junctions should allow full movements?

    100% agree with everything Furet, definately Full movements and would like to see Free Flowing Interchanges built


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 Chris_533976


    + a complete ban on roundabouts at major junctions.

    Bets that the LOR interchanges with the M1, N2, M3, M4 will be three level stacks?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 Amtmann


    What exactly is a three level stack? Can someone post a picture of one?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭ road_high


    The N2 should be abandoned south of Ardee and rerouted along the existing N33 to the M1. the junction in the vicinity of Slane should only allow access to/from the North.
    The junctions at Drogheda and Navan should be designed so there is no need to use the tolled motorways to access them.

    I agree, but last week residents and locals were protesting for an N2 bypass. While I sympathise with them after being promised a bypass for so long, I think as you the N2 should be redirected east to meet the M1. A lot of traffic already does so anyhow. And a simple relief road should then suffice for Slane.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,623 ✭✭✭ Bards


    Furet wrote: »
    What exactly is a three level stack? Can someone post a picture of one?

    try here

    http://www.cbrd.co.uk/reference/interchanges/3round.shtml


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 Chris_533976


    Furet wrote: »
    What exactly is a three level stack? Can someone post a picture of one?

    Three Level Stacks are basically Rathmorrisey.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,825 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    One advantage of this is that it could be easily built in stages - I suspect the M7 to M4 section would likely be most traffic justified, seeing as heavy long distance traffic currently cuts across R roads (Clane) and L roads (Straffan) to get from the M7 to the M4; as well as the serious holdups on the (traffic light riddled) Outer Ring Road between them.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    mfitzy wrote: »
    I agree, but last week residents and locals were protesting for an N2 bypass. While I sympathise with them after being promised a bypass for so long, I think as you the N2 should be redirected east to meet the M1. A lot of traffic already does so anyhow. And a simple relief road should then suffice for Slane.


    I don't see the point in upgrading the N2 either. The M1 is quicker. With the M3 on the way also. It gives further reasons not to bother upgrading the N2 south of Ardee.

    Traffic numbers are lower now than it was back in the early 00s.

    So I agree with you on all points.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    + a complete ban on roundabouts at major junctions.

    Bets that the LOR interchanges with the M1, N2, M3, M4 will be three level stacks?

    I hate how we build interchanges in this country.

    Just look at what they are building on the LSRR... It's madness. They physically cannot design interchanges in this country.

    It's either ****e, flawed or incapable of providing all movements. We decorate our interchanges with roundabouts and if it get's too busy, we put traffic lights on these roundabouts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 Irish and Proud


    The N2 should be abandoned south of Ardee and rerouted along the existing N33 to the M1. the junction in the vicinity of Slane should only allow access to/from the North.
    The junctions at Drogheda and Navan should be designed so there is no need to use the tolled motorways to access them.

    Hey, I'm from East Meath - leave my N2 alone please! :p

    Seriously though, you have a point - if the N33 was dropped and renamed the N2, the M1 from Charleville Southwards would kill two birds. The existing N2 South of Ardee could be renamed the N88 as a back up to the M1 - most of same is already a good road. IMO, the Slane Bypass (in whatever form) will still be needed, as the alternatives to the M1 Toll are either the existing N2 (via Slane), or the R132 (via Drogheda and Julianstown). Of course, there is plan C - buy out the M1 Toll! :D

    Regards!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 Irish and Proud


    mysterious wrote: »
    I hate how we build interchanges in this country.

    Just look at what they are building on the LSRR... It's madness. They physically cannot design interchanges in this country.

    It's either ****e, flawed or incapable of providing all movements. We decorate our interchanges with roundabouts and if it get's too busy, we put traffic lights on these roundabouts.

    The interchange at Rossbrien looks rather tight when carefully compared to the EIS plan - the loops were to be well over 100m in diameter, but looking at the construction pics - they now seem barely or under same. In any case, the N20 North to N7 East loop should be replaced by a third level connector as both the existing N20 and N7 routes are due to be redesignated as motorway. This might allow more scope for full access at Rossbrien.

    All other inter-motorway ramps in the country are (or will be) proper mid/high speed connectors - M4/M6, M7/M8, M7/M9, M1/M50. The Rossbrien Interchange is only the same spec as the dual-carriageway intersections on the M50 - N4/M50, N7/M50 etc.

    More waste I guess - but erm, look on the bright side - the govenment is planning for the future - it will be another job for the boys! :rolleyes:

    Regards!


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,311 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    Cool Mo D wrote: »
    Other possibilities, the M34, or even the M9.
    According to the latest docs, the M40 is not now going to be a continuation of the M9. The M40 will join the M7 around a k to the north of the M7/M9 junction.


    Myserious, you are still shooting your mouth off on here. In the same thread where you propose a fantasy road:
    mysterious wrote: »
    This is my overall layout of the Outer ring road. This road will greatly benifet the interurbans, and direct motorway traffic away from the suburbia and urban sprawl.
    ...you then complain :
    mysterious wrote:
    "ENOUGH OF THIS FANSTASY BULL. ".

    Unbelievable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    spacetweek wrote: »
    According to the latest docs, the M40 is not now going to be a continuation of the M9. The M40 will join the M7 around a k to the north of the M7/M9 junction.

    Where does that say,

    If thats the case, then its not going to work. It will turn into a commuter road for the agglomeration.

    The M40 should be built at this junction. The road will not be able to cope. The Naas bypass as it is has to be widened. Putting an M40 closer to the Naas road, is only going to exasperate the situation more.

    When is common sense going to prevail..:mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    The interchange at Rossbrien looks rather tight when carefully compared to the EIS plan - the loops were to be well over 100m in diameter, but looking at the construction pics - they now seem barely or under same. In any case, the N20 North to N7 East loop should be replaced by a third level connector as both the existing N20 and N7 routes are due to be redesignated as motorway. This might allow more scope for full access at Rossbrien.

    All other inter-motorway ramps in the country are (or will be) proper mid/high speed connectors - M4/M6, M7/M8, M7/M9, M1/M50. The Rossbrien Interchange is only the same spec as the dual-carriageway intersections on the M50 - N4/M50, N7/M50 etc.

    More waste I guess - but erm, look on the bright side - the govenment is planning for the future - it will be another job for the boys! :rolleyes:

    Regards!


    This is the same stupidty I just cannot understand. They have a greenfield site to play around with and they build crappy junctions that don't have all movements. It's not like it cost anything more just to build properly in realistic terms. It actually make's the interchange more feasible and future proofed if anything.

    I really just don't understand this crap, and I'm quite frankly tired of it.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,311 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    A motorway along the current N80 from Enniscorthy to Carlow would seem a tad bit far fetched - would an S2 upgrade not do the job FFS? Better would be a push for the commencement of the M11 Arklow to Rathnew scheme - speaking of same, the road type proposed is standard D2 while the sections it connects are WD2 in width - WD2 could easily be upgraded to D3.

    Not sure about that - according to this document, it's HQDC ("Type 1 Dual Carriageway").

    Just to nail my colours to the mast here, totally agree about an M80 - this is overkill. The traffic levels we'd see here only justify a minor upgrade, so single would be fine for decades. And I'm in favour of the M40 - I know there is loads of development in Dublin's hinterland, but once you allow this you have to follow through with infrastructure - the development isn't going to go away.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 Chris_533976


    We gotta be careful about Type One DC. Its not all the same, thinking about it.

    Type 1 DC is what we commonly call HQDC, designed for a 120kmh limit. "Motorway in all but name"

    BUT

    The N6 Galway bypass is officially called Type 1 DC, but will only have a limit of 100kmh, as it wont have the curvature for a 120kmh speed limit. So it wont be HQDC as we know it.

    Nice and confusing :cool:


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,311 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    We gotta be careful about Type One DC. Its not all the same, thinking about it.

    Type 1 DC is what we commonly call HQDC, designed for a 120kmh limit. "Motorway in all but name"

    BUT

    The N6 Galway bypass is officially called Type 1 DC, but will only have a limit of 100kmh, as it wont have the curvature for a 120kmh speed limit. So it wont be HQDC as we know it.

    Nice and confusing :cool:
    I accept that reasoning, as the Cashel and Gorey Bypasses are two more examples, but it should be noted that those curves and the 100k limit don't preclude motorway designation.

    If motorway designation is still an option, then the road clearly is "high quality".

    Type 2, on the other hand, rules itself out on physical grounds - there are no hard shoulders and not all junctions need be grade separated.

    With the M11 appearing to the south of W-A, it's likely W-A will in time be redesignated too.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    spacetweek wrote: »

    Myserious, you are still shooting your mouth off on here. In the same thread where you propose a fantasy road:

    ...you then complain :



    Unbelievable.


    Please don't twist my words:)


    I said the M80 was a fantasy road. And yes it is a fantasy idea and a load of bull The M40 I'm in favour for the simple reason, it is needed and we didn't design an efficient motorway system it is all going to dump on the already at full capacity M50. Don't twist and distort things I say.

    I do hope you can read my post more concisely and with such attention in future. So you won't go in to these errors again hopefully.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 Amtmann


    So, have we (and the NRA) settled on M40?

    General:
    m40scheme.jpg

    Route Corridor: Drogheda to Navan
    LOR1.jpg

    Route Corridor: Navan to Enfield
    LOR2.jpg

    Route Corridor: Enfield to Naas
    LOR3.jpg

    Route Varients:
    lor4.jpg
    lor5.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 577 Typewriter


    Shame if the DOOR is called the M40 I always thought that would have been a good new name for the fully completed Cork SRR.

    Oh well.;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 Amtmann


    Any insider info on the standing of this scheme in the priority stakes? SpongeBob: According to your sources is this still very much something that's going to be progressed, however slowly, post 2010?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 Sponge Bob


    This was one of the 99 road projects killed in the new programme for goverment was it not ??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 Amtmann


    Killed off until the Greens are out on their ear, that is... Point taken. No movement til then.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,441 ✭✭✭ munchkin_utd


    Any idea on why the greens are against this project?, not that there was money for it anyways.

    Was it a matter of prioritising other competing projects like the Interconnector (aka Dart Underground) or were they against the road because of a more fundamental reason like a few trees might need to be chopped down?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 Sponge Bob


    All of those munchkin in no particular order ,

    The stupid green bollixes will not admit that electric vehicles with their limited batteries and LOOOOONG charge cycles if it runs out near Monasterevin somewhere :p will be far more reliant on motorways than petrol cars are .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 Tech3


    As per my previous post on this thread I feel this scheme is just a big waste of money.

    Most of the traffic on the M50 is Dublin bound and is commuter traffic.

    I would like to see how much of M6/M7/M8/M11 is going to M1 north / Belfast every day?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 mysterious


    tech2 wrote: »
    As per my previous post on this thread I feel this scheme is just a big waste of money.

    Most of the traffic on the M50 is Dublin bound and is commuter traffic.

    I would like to see how much of M6/M7/M8/M11 is going to M1 north / Belfast every day?


    Yeah when you have every motorway in the country in 2010 dumped on it!

    As someone who is from the Midwest we use the M50 To go up North as the cross country roads are diabolical. It's sucicidal in some places. Have you seen the road between Borriskane and Delvin? I find that all traffic going up and down the country should not be steering towards Dublin at all.

    I don't want a glorified motorway. I want a hybrid N52/Leinster orbital.


    Borriskane to Birr (WS2 or 2+2)
    Birr to Mullingar ( standard DC and 2+2)
    From Mullingar to North of Drogheda N51 and N5 multiplex also serving Navan be the M52.

    The M9 exstension will go via enfiled and hook up with the M3 to proceed NE/NW.


    So I would use the existing roads and having sufficient roads to meet the demands of traffic without ploughing a full scale M40 around Dublin that we really do not need.


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