Athlone bypass! should it be a motorway?

G_R

Furet wrote: »

Drove this today. Here it is:

The High Quality viewing option should become available shortly.

god just look at all the tractors!!!!!:D

dannym08

dannym08 wrote: »

god just look at all the tractors!!!!!:D

There's a little red one at 7:20

2 stroke

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a little red one at 7:20

obviously a council tractor

murphaph

That tractor is pretty obviously engaged in works on the highway and as such would be legally entitled to use the motorway anyway

spacetweek

Love watching your videos Furet; your musical taste is great

Few observations:
What's with all the cones? I know the Ballinasloe BP tie-in is going on but the coned off section started a good 2km before the end of the Athlone BP. Is it because they're resurfacing?
A lot of silly unnecessary signs like "Dual Carriageway" and "Speed Limits in km/h". Now's a good time to tidy these up.
Many junctions have LILOs as the access points. Not out of spec, but suboptimal.

I see Mysterious has gone very quiet. Maybe he's just being mysterious again

SeanW

Perchance he is looking for all those 30 year old Massey Fergusons ...

Edit: nice video Furet

BluntGuy

I haven't watched the video, but I presume it showcases that the Athlone Bypass is NOT underspec for motorway, as mysterious so often points out.

I can only remember one LILO on it, and AFAIK it had a good acceleration lane.

KevR

Thanks for the video Furet!!

Deleted User wrote: »

At 6:16 you can just about see where the "chiccane" will be installed, when the main line is cut in a few days time.
All westbound traffic will then leave at this junction and go up and over a roundabout before rejoining the old N6(R???) at the new roundabout (7:20). You can easily add in another five minutes in here!
Eastbound traffic will do the reversa and use the chiccane to rejoin the bypass.

Starting my work placement in Athlone (not really the town itself, just off the Eastern end of the bypass) in the morning. I hope the diversion doesn't add too much onto my daily journey. 5 minutes I could definitely live with!

Deleted User wrote: »

Good to see that they were working on that expansion gap on the Shannon bridge, hopefully be completed by Monday!

I hope so!

flazio

I would be against the upgrading for the simple reason that the Athlone town bridge isn't really suited for any slow heavy goods vehicles to be going across it on a regular basis.

mysterious

spacetweek wrote: »

Love watching your videos Furet; your musical taste is great

Few observations:
What's with all the cones? I know the Ballinasloe BP tie-in is going on but the coned off section started a good 2km before the end of the Athlone BP. Is it because they're resurfacing?
A lot of silly unnecessary signs like "Dual Carriageway" and "Speed Limits in km/h". Now's a good time to tidy these up.
Many junctions have LILOs as the access points. Not out of spec, but suboptimal.

I see Mysterious has gone very quiet. Maybe he's just being mysterious again

Spacetweek. Who would ever think I would be quiet;)

Actually they are not up to motorway spec. The amount of lane merging is far more than that of a regular motorway. Most motorways have at least 2km at least between interchanges and generally are a good few kms between interchanges/

There is a weaving issue here.
There are a few tight curves also, one very noticealbe one is heading towards the bridge. These are not motorway standards I'm afraid. If they were, it would of been reclassified as one years ago.

It is underspec, the NRA stated this last year. They left the Athlone bypass out of the reclassification for that reason. I have no problem banning off road developments and cyclists.

I think its to excessive to make this bypass a motorway though. This bypass is for Athlone just as much as it for any other traffic. I dont think tractors should be banned off it. For the simple reason, the Shannon bridge.

The town bridge can't cope as it is. The town needs another bridge. And to make it's second bridge a motorway is just plain absurd. Given the fact there is no need real need to make it a mororway with the speed restrictions, curves and the amount of closely connected interchanges. The interchanges.

I do believe cyclists, pedstiransa and off road developments can be banned. That can't to much of a problem. The Athlone bypass is high gradient there won't be any developments built off it. The existing interchanges there are provided for all movements. People are using the development balony as another excuse in this argument.

I have travelled the bypass there is no way they would even get permission to build any development off this bypass.

I would like someone to name me example of a developer that has applied for one. I want you to name me ones that got their permission. I want you to name where they want access to the Athlone bypass also.

And I'm going to cut all of you Blue bypass wannabees short, that you can't provide any facts for that argument. Ive asked twice, I/ve got no reply since. Ironic eh.

spacetweek

spacetweek wrote: »

Love watching your videos Furet; your musical taste is great

Few observations:
What's with all the cones? I know the Ballinasloe BP tie-in is going on but the coned off section started a good 2km before the end of the Athlone BP. Is it because they're resurfacing?

The first set are for emergency works on the "bridge over the river Shannon" and the second lot are for where the temporary crossover will be built to allow the tie in works to commence.

Originally Posted by Deleted User
At 6:16 you can just about see where the "chiccane" will be installed, when the main line is cut in a few days time.
All westbound traffic will then leave at this junction and go up and over a roundabout before rejoining the old N6(R???) at the new roundabout (7:20). You can easily add in another five minutes in here!
Eastbound traffic will do the reversa and use the chiccane to rejoin the bypass.

Saruman

flazio wrote: »

I would be against the upgrading for the simple reason that the Athlone town bridge isn't really suited for any slow heavy goods vehicles to be going across it on a regular basis.

Why would that matter? HGV's can use a motorway so why would they all of a sudden start going through the town?

From my experience of that road, it is more than capable of being 120kph. It is no different than older motorway sections such as the M4 between Maynooth and Lucan. Some resurfacing is all that is needed in places.

Bards

mysterious wrote: »

The town bridge can't cope as it is. The town needs another bridge. And to make it's second bridge a motorway is just plain absurd. .

... and yet you have no problem with the Waterford City Bypass becoming a Motorway even thought there is only one bridge accross the suir for a much larger City than Athlone town, and the second crossing would be a Motorway Only Bridge????

I just don't get your double speak and inconsistencies

Saruman

Saruman wrote: »

It is no different than older motorway sections such as the M4 between Maynooth and Lucan. Some resurfacing is all that is needed in places.

Except for a few bends and Junctions, it's exactly the same.

Saruman

A few bends? Sure but its not like you have to do much in the way of wheel turning, they are light bends and the road pretty much bends in one direction depending on which way you travel as it is going around the town. The only danger the bends pose is on the slight chance there is a pile up, in fog with little visibility.
There is no possible way that on a normal day, if there is an obstacle on the road that you do not see until you go around a little curve that there is no way you could stop in time. The curves are not small and sharp, they are long gradual curves.

Junctions? There are on and off ramps that lead to junctions on the roads into town and the only thing dangerous about them are the junctions themselves. Such as the one heading Dublin bound for where B&Q is? I could have the wrong one but when you exit, you come to a stop sign and to the left the road curves away so there is no way to see what is coming. That is pretty dangerous, no where on the bypass is dangerous in my opinion, at least not when it is fully open and not packed full of cones and roadworks.

Admittedly I do not live in Athlone so would not use it every day, perhaps there is something I am missing and only a local would see it but I do use the road enough to feel perfectly safe at 120kph (traffic permitting of course).

murphaph

Myterious is waffling anyway.Curves and junctions me @rse. Ever driven the M50 Mysterious? That's proper curvy with tight junctions and bends with steep slopes to boot. I wasn't aware of multiple pileups around Ballymount/Red Cow or up in the foothills every day. Just crazy talk.

The bends are not sharp as such, but sharp enough to "wake up" dozy drivers! After 70Km or so of new straight(ish) motorway the bends appear relativly sharp.

Installing rumble strips before the first bend wouldn't be a bad idea.

Amtmann

The entire length of the bypass needs to be resurfaced and cleaned. There's a lot of mud on the hard shoulder. The median concrete barrier in the centre of the bypass seems to have been just dropped there at some point; the barriers do not appear to be fixed into position. I agree the first bend as you head west after leaving the newest part of the M6 comes on you pretty suddenly.

Sponge Bob

Rumble strips on a 120kph motorway , the horror :eek: the HORROR :eek: .

Note the half blind divvys who tootle along slowly between Blyry and the Ros Road in the cars...never mind the mystery tractors . It is a ****ing deathtrap I say .

Lower the speed to 90kph over that entire stretch unless you want lots of people to die !

120kph roads should be designed as such , the core of the Atlone bypass was designed 30 years ago or so ...and as a weaving snaking bypass of Athlone not as a motorway .

However I do believe it should be a 90kph Motorway .

Saruman

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Lower the speed to 90kph over that entire stretch unless you want lots of people to die !

Im curious, since the road was built and has been 60mph and 100kph for all these years, how many people have died on it to warranty a reduction to 90kph? A speed limit I might add that I have never seen on any Irish road.

murphaph

Britain's roads are much safer than ours (app. half the per capita fatalities) and in fact Britain has the safest or second safest roads in Europe statistically. In Britain the Athlone Bypass would either be motorway or an all purpose dual carriageway.....but would have a 70mph limit on BOTH.

Zoney

murphaph: only by default. From what I gather, the authorities there are getting increasingly zealous about scrapping NSL on certain stretches of road near to urban areas.

No doubt it would certainly have been so around the time we built it though, up till recent years. But I would think there is some chance that UK authorities would have slapped a 60mph limit on such a AP DC bypass at this stage.

The 90 km/h limit thing is a non-runner - the only options are 80 km/h and 100, and it isn't going to be lowered to 80. So it will be 100 km/h regardless of it being motorway or DC, and they'll probably have to have large signs and enforcement either way too, due to the 120 km/h motorway either side.

Sponge Bob

80kph then I am sorry to say .

That turn east of the bridge is tight @ 100kph if there is any wind etc and the sightlines around the 2 eastern junctions and over the ros road hump west of the bridge are cack too.

There are too many places where sudden braking could occur @ 100kph for me which is why I would reduce it to a sustainable limit .

G_R

Sponge Bob wrote: »

80kph then I am sorry to say .

That turn east of the bridge is tight @ 100kph if there is any wind etc and the sightlines around the 2 eastern junctions and over the ros road hump west of the bridge are cack too.

There are too many places where sudden braking could occur @ 100kph for me which is why I would reduce it to a sustainable limit .

but sure its 100 at the moment with slow moving vehicles allowed. it wouldn't make any sense to take the dangerous, slow moving classes of vehicles and pedestrians etc. off the road and then reduce the speed limit.

Amtmann

New surfacing, signage, relectors, studs and lines would make a huge difference, all for the better.

Zoney

This is where I say "it's a limit not a target"! If you reduced it to 80 km/h, you'd simply have even more people driving at/in excess of 100 km/h than you do at present, except for the strictly legal drivers (even many good drivers will adapt upwards to account for traffic speed - so the low limit will simply make them lawbreakers) - and these few "slow" drivers will merely increase the chances of accident.

Simply adding "curve ahead" warning signs should be sufficient as regards informing drivers to drive sensibly if there is a real issue.

BluntGuy

And as much as I hate to say it: speed cameras should be used here to discourage traffic from moving too quickly.

I'm not a massive fan of the Athlone Bypass' signage either. Very faded, patchy and often difficult to see. It needs replacing regardless of redesignation.

Amtmann

It also has some annoying personalised ADS signage; one bit gives Athlone town's website!

Zoney

BluntGuy wrote: »

And as much as I hate to say it: speed cameras should be used here to discourage traffic from moving too quickly.

I'm not a massive fan of the Athlone Bypass' signage either. Very faded, patchy and often difficult to see. It needs replacing regardless of redesignation.

Hah - I was wondering whether to say that! Quite a controversial move. I'm not entirely sure whether I would advocate it myself. Maybe if they were set to trigger on everyone who's more than 10 km/h above the limit.

G_R

BluntGuy wrote: »

And as much as I hate to say it: speed cameras should be used here to discourage traffic from moving too quickly.

im totally against speed cameras on M-ways, its a bit like shooting fish in a barrel tbh, most people travel at 125, 130 on motorways and well i dont really see the harm, its within the design speed so its safe enough. They should, however, be installed on R routes where people keep gettin killed, and it should be zero tolerance on those roads, but thats for a different thread, different time.

Mayb there is a case to be made for cameras on the athlone bypass only but it should be a last resort i think.

Sponge Bob

The other problem I have with that sharp curve east of the bridge is that when it is windy and high sided vehicles are taking that curve westbound they are caught sideways by a wind funnel effect off the river...not helped by the high buildings along that river in the town .

The funnel effect continues until you are over the Ros Road hump .

Crushing 120kph cars against the concrete median is a real risk along there and that is another reason why I feel it is a lunatic speed limit on that stretch .

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The other problem I have with that sharp curve east of the bridge is that when it is windy and high sided vehicles are taking that curve westbound they are caught sideways by a wind funnel effect off the river...not helped by the high buildings along that river in the town .

The funnel effect continues until you are over the Ros Road hump .

Crushing 120kph cars against the concrete median is a real risk along there and that is another reason why I feel it is a lunatic speed limit on that stretch .

Wind Funnel!! The valley's so shallow there, that's impossible.

BluntGuy

BluntGuy wrote: »

speed cameras

NO!
NO!
NO!
and
NO!
again. :mad:

KevR

On the way to work this morning I saw a tractor on the bypass!

BUT he was NOT crossing the Shannon. He joined East of the Shannon Bridge and was heading East. I'm not sure but I would imagine that there would have been some alternative route that he could have used as he wasn't crossing the river. Probably just used the bypass as a shorter route.

No way should the Athlone Bypass be reduced to 80kmh. If you reduce the Bypass to 80kmh then reduce all single carriageway N roads to 60kmh. It's a good stretch of road. It's not quite as good as our motorways but it's not that bad either. Let's not be dramatic about it.

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

These are not motorway standards I'm afraid. If they were, it would of been reclassified as one years ago.

The ability to reclassify roads as motorways only came in to existance last year. The Athlone Bypass has been included in the first batch on non-MIU reclassifications. Another of your little "facts" rather destroyed I think.

L1011

murphaph wrote: »

Myterious is waffling anyway.Curves and junctions me @rse. Ever driven the M50 Mysterious? That's proper curvy with tight junctions and bends with steep slopes to boot. I wasn't aware of multiple pileups around Ballymount/Red Cow or up in the foothills every day. Just crazy talk.

In mysterious's eyes, thats "different" for unspecified reasons. Because he just wants his green road, he won't specify them.

mysterious

Bards wrote: »

... and yet you have no problem with the Waterford City Bypass becoming a Motorway even thought there is only one bridge accross the suir for a much larger City than Athlone town, and the second crossing would be a Motorway Only Bridge????

I just don't get your double speak and inconsistencies

The Rice bridge can handle up to 55,000 a day.

The Athlone bridge is is arch stone bridge that is pretty narrow, and it's the only bridge to access either side of the town, the only alternative, is 30miles either side there is a difference. Waterford is getting another crossing. Athlone isn't, the bypass bridge been reclassified isn't going to ease the town bridge. The motorway at Waterford will ease the existing bridge, yet another difference your blind to see. Most of Waterford city is on the south side and the entire citycentre is intact on the south side core. The river shannon divides Atlone town in half by a narrow old bridge.

Why would you compare a fairly modern bridge at Wateford to Athlone. The New Motorway will actually ease traffic at the Rice bridge. The Athlone bypass has been in place for the last 20 years and is used by the towns local traffic etc.

That is not double talk, it's just you wailing nonsense and trying to make a decent comparison but you can't.

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

In mysterious's eyes, thats "different" for unspecified reasons. Because he just wants his green road, he won't specify them.

Since it's already green I'm not the one screaming and hawning I want my blue road.

mysterious

murphaph wrote: »

Myterious is waffling anyway.Curves and junctions me @rse. Ever driven the M50 Mysterious? That's proper curvy with tight junctions and bends with steep slopes to boot. I wasn't aware of multiple pileups around Ballymount/Red Cow or up in the foothills every day. Just crazy talk.

So much for hypocrisy.
It's you spent a few lines waffling above. Lay of the exaggeration ffs.

Foothills, oh god:rolleyes: The M50 isn't curvy. There is only one curve south of firhouse that is not designed for 120kmh speed radiants. The rest of it is.

But since it was always a motorway and it to got it's speed reducted down to 100kmh. It's stupid comparing the M50 with this.

Murphaph I've argued you many times, and corrected you on many stances. Tight junctions are over the M50. still doesn't really affect the mainlne, plus the fact that the weaving lanes between interchanges allow alot of these movements to negoiates safely with the mainline.

So you should lay off the nonsense.:rolleyes:

Steep slopes, want a blue motorway much? You are screaming the motorway agenda here, for any excuse, even if it is lies.

G_R

mysterious wrote: »

Since it's already green I'm not the one screaming and hawning I want my blue road.

mysteriouis, who, other than you, has said the words "I want a blue road", im pretty sure you'll find that no one, no one, has said that other than you. will you please stop sayin it. Its gettin pathetic like, when ever you have nothing to say you jus say that we wanty our blue road and thats that

mysterious

dannym08 wrote: »

mysteriouis, who, other than you, has said the words "I want a blue road", im pretty sure you'll find that no one, no one, has said that other than you. will you please stop sayin it. Its gettin pathetic like, when ever you have nothing to say you jus say that we wanty our blue road and thats that

It's either that, or really really pathetic examples and excuses for it.

I've clearly corrected murphaph on his examples, yet again.:rolleyes:

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

Since it's already green I'm not the one screaming and hawning I want my blue road.

I think you'll find you're the only person "screaming and hawning" any viewpoint on this thread; and your viewpoint is a vicious desire for a green road...

On this and the previous thread you were asked to provide any examples, even one, of someone saying something even approaching "I want my blue road" - other than you in your fake quotes. You failed to.

Amtmann

Lads is it not time to call it a day on this issue? I mean we've had umpteen pages of the same spiel over and over and over again.

It's in Noel Dempsey's hands now.

BluntGuy

Mysterious wrote:

It's either that, or really really pathetic examples and excuses for it.

Hmmm...

I accept facts.

They can stop people from using it as a walkway. Doesn't mean it has to be a motorway.

The same way they make a law don't let your dog **** on the pavement. Very simple.

BTW I said minimum of a 1000 tractors a day. You have to take into consideration it's the only bridging point on the Shannon for 30miles with the Athlone town bridge inclusive.

Though my stances would be fairly about right

Direct quote from other thread:

Anyway what is the big deal about a few tractors. I'd hardly see tractors on this road anyhow.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59556000&postcount=38

The problem with the Athlone bypass it isn't up to spec, so it doesnt get redesignated, it is not because of farmers, leaners or people walking their dog.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59572121&postcount=83

I do believe cyclists, pedstiransa and off road developments can be banned. That can't to much of a problem. The Athlone bypass is high gradient there won't be any developments built off it. The existing interchanges there are provided for all movements. People are using the development balony as another excuse in this argument.

Learners don't need to be taken off it, the speed is the same as the existing national primary routes. The speed limit is 100kmh. In 19 years of use, there was never an issue with learners using it. There is to many closley spaced interchanges too, so speed and motorway restiction isn't going to have any effect. And as some said here, there won't be a drastic numbers of tractors on it or whatever, why ban them?

My motive is the Atlone bypass doesn't need to be a motorway. It's not a motorway and it's an all purpose DC that has a 100kmh speed limit slapped on it. It is fine as it is. If the road is upgraded and weaving lanes are provided between the tightly spaced junctions along it's lenght

Then it should be upgraded to motorway. Motorways needs to have at leat 2km between interchanges if I'm correct. The existing alternative route is not adequate enough for this to be suddenly turned into a motoway.

This bypass is not just for N6 traffic. It has a lower speed limit than a motorway. Therefore tractors DO not need to be forced into the town. This bypass is 3/4 of local traffic. This is a high percentage. There would be atleast a 1000 tractors if not more a day using the existing bypass bridge to get from one side of the Shannon to the other. This cannot be put into Athlone town. End of story.

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

It's in Noel Dempsey's hands now.

Don't remind me.

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

I think you'll find you're the only person "screaming and hawning" any viewpoint on this thread; and your viewpoint is a vicious desire for a green road...

On this and the previous thread you were asked to provide any examples, even one, of someone saying something even approaching "I want my blue road" - other than you in your fake quotes. You failed to.

It's the Athlone bypass, I'm happy as it is.
Signage and road resurfaced a bonus. It is fine.
If the council want to ban pedstrians/Cyclists then go ahead.

There is nothing vicious about my stance. Why do you want it motorway. You haven't given me a direct answer yet. You keep saying safety safety. But the speed limit is 100kmh anyway. The same speed as a national primary route. They have tractors on it. Why is it such a big safety issue. When all the tractors are doing is trying to get over the bridge and not have to navigate through the town of Athlone. Why is there an obsession to benifet only the N6 users here. The Athlone bypass has been in use for all types of traffic for the last 20 years. There is not direct siding here for just motorway traffic. The alternative route is a medieval main street with a narrow bridge over the Shannon. The Athlone bypass is not up to full spec. So it has no real reason to make it a blue road. SImple as that.

It's you that is taking this to extremity. Oh btw, look up the word vicious.

SeanW

Furet wrote: »

Lads is it not time to call it a day on this issue? I mean we've had umpteen pages of the same spiel over and over and over again.

I'm still waiting for mysterious to either provide evidence for his "at least 1000 tractors through the town per day" statement, or admit that he pulled it from out thin air.

I get the feeling though that I would be waiting a very long time

In fact, I'm still waiting for (properly evidenced) answers to a few questions.
1) How much traffic will be affected by redesignation? remember I'm looking for an evidence based estimate that I can actually read without laughing, as opposed to some screaming "I WANT MY GREEN DUAL CARRIAGEWAY" type posting made up 'facts.'
2) What the hell do learner drivers have to do with it, given that any learner who uses his/her permit for commuting or whatever is already breaking road laws, and any law abiding L plater will have an accompanying driver to take the wheel?
3) How is the N6 Athlone Bypass any different to the M50, which also has suboptimal features?
Remember I'm looking for anything in Irish law or motorway code that explicitly prevents a feature of the Bypass from being redesignated.

mysterious wrote:

You are screaming ... agenda here, for any excuse, even if it is lies.

Glass house, stones ...

murphaph

mysterious wrote: »

If the council want to ban pedstrians/Cyclists then go ahead.

Again you show your complete ignorance of the law. The council HAS NO LEGAL RIGHT to permanently ban pedestrians or cyclists from the bypass. I'm sick correcting you.

I think it's obvious enough now that Mysterious has a vested interest and is not telling us the whole picture.

The southern cross of the M50 has MUCH WORSE sightlines, with worse horizontal and vertical alignments than the Athlone bypass. He clearly doesn't have an engineering eye or something because most laymen can see that.

He also believes that adding umpteen smilies validates his erroneous points. They do not.

murphaph

SeanW wrote: »

I'm still waiting for mysterious to either provide evidence for his "at least 1000 tractors through the town per day" statement, or admit that he pulled it from out thin air.

He just made it up like he made up "the council can ban peds and cyclists from the bypass". Both untrue. I won't call them lies however, just misinformed twaddle.

mysterious

murphaph wrote: »

He just made it up like he made up "the council can ban peds and cyclists from the bypass". Both untrue. I won't call them lies however, just misinformed twaddle.

Why can't the council do this, I mean politicians and councilors make the craziest laws right. Why can't they take pedestrians on it.

I mean it's against the law to walk on the HS too. But people still do, what's to say that people wont walk it when they are blue sigs. If the council can't enforce it for these reasons.

This world is pathetic.:rolleyes: The elites and people in power make laws, we follow them, They break the laws, they twist laws, they change laws.


Why is it so "difficult" for the powers of be to make a law on this DC?