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M3 progress

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    malman wrote: »
    "Structures destroyed" - Be warned this probably originated from the protesters.
    Expresses why I hate even having these discussions. Everything is about the protestors.

    Ok, let's play the game for a minute. Say nothing was destroyed / 'preserved by record'. Do you think that this route was best option available? Would this route have been your first choice?


  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Bog Butter


    It is just I have seen a lot of misinformation given out by the protesters. This gives archaeology a bad name. People should base their opinions on sound facts.

    In terms of not disturbing archaeology it was not the best route. The Lismullin find, a National Monument, further heightens the status of the area in archaeological significance terms.

    However on the other hand Lismullin would not have been found only for the road. It would have been destroyed further by agriculture had it not been exposed.

    I am in favour in exposing archaeogical and having it scienfically excavated for gaining knowledge. I am not in favour of distroying heritage for the sake of it. There were 2 things you could have done with Lismullin after the excavations.

    1. Build a road on top of it
    2. Reconstruct it in situ for the general public.

    I like no.2 best. But to cast a critical a eye on that:

    - It was exposed because of the road.
    - No further knowledge is gained by reconstructing it in situ; you could reconstruct it elsewhere


  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Bog Butter


    IIMII wrote: »
    Expresses why I hate even having these discussions. Everything is about the protestors.?

    Me too. The protesters, in an attempt to win the hearts and minds of the general public, have misinformed, distorted evidence and lied thereby enraging the anti M3 folk and potentially turning the pro M3 folk against heritage and archaeology.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    You see, I don't think this route should ever have been considered. I think a better route would have been through the Skane valley (like the old rail route) with an exit for Trim somewhere between Trim and Kiltale. The extra traffic from Trim might have reduced the number of tolls to one. Anyway it's all irrelevant now, but having to pay a toll so close to Dublin really gets up my nose. Ashbourne has none, you can get to Drogheda without paying one or Kilcock, and Kildare is toll free. The people of Kells once this is built with the N3/M50 interchange could now feasibly work say in Sandyford when this is all built, but problem is now they would have to pay 3 tolls each way, which is a ridiculous discrimation against the working population of Meath. Engineering wise it'll be a grand road, but it has been caked in hassle from minute one


  • Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭CUCINA


    Hi, just getting back to a query I had earlier in this thread re uploading photos (thanks to Furet and Malman for the replies)...
    I connected the camera to the laptop and was able to view all the pictures full size on the screen. I followed Malman's instructions, accessed the album etc but I got stuck as regards the actual procedure to upload the photos.
    There is a small version of the first picture, shown on the bottom rhs of the screen, with an invitation to click the import button but when I do this, it systematically starts to run through all 500 pictures on my camera, without the option to select certain pictures, so I quickly aborted that operation! I don't think too many people on Boards would have that much interest in seeing my mother-in-law sitting on a couch!:)
    Where am I going wrong? Having made at least some progress I would love to be able to show some of the M3 pictures that I took last week, and also the ones I took last summer...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭spiderdog


    hmmm...see the bohermeen road is closed.....again....wonder if yet another new bridge is subsiding:rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    The new R125 is being painted at the mo


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    spiderdog wrote: »
    hmmm...see the bohermeen road is closed.....again....wonder if yet another new bridge is subsiding:rolleyes:

    ...wonder if they should just re-route this section of M3 closer to Navan at the rear of Tara Mines (Route C). Also, given that there are railways and bridges (built over 100 years ago) present in the area of Route C and still intact, the ground conditions should surely be better there. I having the horrors visualising the M3 through Bohermeen as a dual N51 mini roller coaster ride! :(

    Regards!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    malaman structures were damaged, rath lugh, the building of the time used landscape/earth as well as wood and stone, so your expert archaelogist couldn't even be bothered to measure the distance between the raod and rath lugh, deined it for years ignoring other expert archealogists from nuig, then carried building the road regardless.

    you'll notice that about 12 of the proterstors had all there charges dropped after been dragged to the courts for years cos the gardai and private security weren't willing to show what _they_ got up to in court.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    i love it ,i love our history, and i enjoy archeology, i can even trace my family back to the 3rd century , on the same farm of land we are on today, thats how origional i am

    them hippies are no good wasters ,and i noticed they all disapeared every thursday/friday for a few hours to collect their benefits, i was face to face with them and i raced after them with one of my diggers in fast track , that put the sh2ts up them ,and fair play to navan and dunshaughlin gardai they were backen me all the way, even arrested a few of the dirty f111ers

    then they wouldnt let the diesel lorry in to fill up the machines, so again the digger was put into action and they got another chase, an english one in an ould white citroen car with one of them speakers that can pick you up from a mile away, taught she was smart until she seen me heading for her car with a fairly big CAT ,she wasnt long dropping the speaker and moving her crock then,

    one fella got into the bucket of my 330 one day so i put him up as high as she could reach and turned her off ,left him up there for the best part of the day, gaurds and every one making a laugh of him

    and that post office between navan and dunshuaghlin, go down that road half a mile to the new m3 crosses it i think thats lismullen or near it anyway, one side is the navan gardai and the other is dunshuaghlin, well the fun we had with the hippies there , purposely having machines crossing the road just to annoy them ,

    more of them near got ran down ahh such craic

    ah such psychopathic ranting and behaviour from leitrim lad.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    malman wrote: »
    The site of Tara is known as a complex as it has a range of monuments which span thousands of years in date. The earliest being a passage tomb (Newgrange is a passage tomb too and as such they are comtemporary). The state owned Tara complex covers an area of around 100 acres and the M3 will be located further away from it than the current N3.

    The thing is though it was not just this 100 acre site which was a symbolic and important place to our past peoples. It was the whole landscape: the Tara to Skyrne valley. There are many other monuments which occupy the valley. Some of which were recently discovered during archaeological excavations prior to construction, most notabley the Lismullin timber circle.

    This is where some confusion may lie as to the position of the motorway in relation to Tara. The protesters may claim that the road is going through Tara but what they are refering to is the wider symbolic landscape and not the state owned complex.

    yeah so your saying theyre right and everyone claiming that its not going Tara is wrong. Tara was never just the hill.
    the state owned complex is what ever they could get their hands on, Tara is Tara.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    yeah so your saying theyre right and everyone claiming that its not going Tara is wrong. Tara was never just the hill.
    the state owned complex is what ever they could get their hands on, Tara is Tara.

    Correct the whole surrounding area around tara is of national history and heritage. It may be off to the east of the old road but very worringly close to the hill of skryne. Also people have to take into account the width of the motorway is much more than the old road. I think the routing of the M3 is a f!!king disgrace for the sake of a few minutes timesaving on a motorway.

    This will give people an idea of negativity regarding the route:
    A majority in favour
    Those opposed to this route are not a minority. The only independent survey on the issue, carried out by RedC, showed that 70% of people said that they wanted the road rerouted out of the Valley.

    Btw this thread is pretty dead with photos or any kind of progress.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    the state owned complex is what ever they could get their hands on, Tara is Tara.
    The state-owned Tara is as a result of the Tormey vs the Office of Public Work's predessessor.

    The Tormeys started charging visitors to visit the hill. The state intervened and bought the land on the hill. The Tormeys agreed to sell the top of the hill but took a case to keep their land below the 400' contour line by saying that Tara was only the land above the 400' contour lines. The state disagreed and won the case on the evidence of de Valera's son who testified that Tara was not a hill nut an area was an area that extended down the hill and encompassed the surrounding area.

    As the CPO related only to the Tormey and their toll dispute with the state, the state owned Tara is made up only of what was formerly Tormey land, hence the haphazard state ownership of land in the Tara area. There is no other reason or historical/archaelogical reason for the land in Tara under state ownership other than that it was farm CPO resulting from the state's dispute with the Tormey's

    The realligned Athboy road section is also now open, the first M3 related road section to open. It's dc for about 3 - 4km or so? Nice stretch


  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Bog Butter


    yeah so your saying theyre right and everyone claiming that its not going Tara is wrong. Tara was never just the hill.
    the state owned complex is what ever they could get their hands on, Tara is Tara.

    I just trying to highlight the fact that people may have been mislead by the information given out by the protestors.
    malaman structures were damaged, rath lugh, the building of the time used landscape/earth as well as wood and stone, so your expert archaelogist couldn't even be bothered to measure the distance between the raod and rath lugh, deined it for years ignoring other expert archealogists from nuig, then carried building the road regardless.

    you'll notice that about 12 of the proterstors had all there charges dropped after been dragged to the courts for years cos the gardai and private security weren't willing to show what _they_ got up to in court.

    The academic archaeologist Conor Newman classifies Rath Lugh as a ‘defensive inland cliff-edge fort’.

    The monument of Lath Lugh was not damaged. Rath Lugh sits on top of an esker (glacial ridge), the base of which was damaged. That is not to say I think it was right to damage the esker. It should not have been; it is integral to the monument.


  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Bog Butter


    CUCINA wrote: »
    Hi, just getting back to a query I had earlier in this thread re uploading photos (thanks to Furet and Malman for the replies)...
    I connected the camera to the laptop and was able to view all the pictures full size on the screen. I followed Malman's instructions, accessed the album etc but I got stuck as regards the actual procedure to upload the photos.
    There is a small version of the first picture, shown on the bottom rhs of the screen, with an invitation to click the import button but when I do this, it systematically starts to run through all 500 pictures on my camera, without the option to select certain pictures, so I quickly aborted that operation! I don't think too many people on Boards would have that much interest in seeing my mother-in-law sitting on a couch!:)
    Where am I going wrong? Having made at least some progress I would love to be able to show some of the M3 pictures that I took last week, and also the ones I took last summer...


    Hi CUCINA. I never actually used that way of posting photo's online. I have since learned to attach them to a post, which is far handier. Asuming you have the photos stored on your computer or on a storage device simply:

    - click reply to thread
    - click on the saftey pin icon (located to the right of the smiley face)
    - click on Browse and locate your photo
    - click open
    - click on upload (to the right of the Browse button)
    - submit reply


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Well, the M3 can't open a minute too soon IMO.

    I was up in Enniskillen yesterday and the drive from Dublin is pure torture compared to all the other national primary routes that have been upgraded to motorway in recent years. Hardly any bypasses, no dual carriageway beyond Dublin, long lines of slow moving traffic, some very narrow and twisty sections. Kells in particular is a horrific bottleneck. Navan is not much better.:(


  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Bog Butter


    .....expert archaelogist couldn't even be bothered to measure the distance between the raod and rath lugh, deined it for years ignoring other expert archealogists from nuig, then carried building the road regardless.

    The road was designed to be further away from Rath Lugh. However the road has ended up being a lot closer in reality. As I said in page 5 Rath Lugh was not damaged but rather the esker on which it sits was. The reason being the position of the monument was not recorded correctly originally. I don't know the politics surrounding the question as to why this problem was not rectified before construction started. You seem to be more informed in that regard.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭upmeath


    I took photos (as promised almost a month ago) but never got round to putting them up until now. They should be up in the Roads Forum within the hour. They're from the overpass between Greetiagh and Oristown, between Greetiagh and Newgate Motors, and the Navan-Athboy Road and Navan-Robinstown Roads. I'll provide linkage when I've them uploaded to the relevant thread, stay tuned.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,056 ✭✭✭gazzer


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    Well, the M3 can't open a minute too soon IMO.

    I was up in Enniskillen yesterday and the drive from Dublin is pure torture compared to all the other national primary routes that have been upgraded to motorway in recent years. Hardly any bypasses, no dual carriageway beyond Dublin, long lines of slow moving traffic, some very narrow and twisty sections. Kells in particular is a horrific bottleneck. Navan is not much better.:(


    I hate driving through Kells. Navan (town of the one million traffic lights) is a close second. Anybody any idea if any parts of the road will be opened this year?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    gazzer wrote: »
    I hate driving through Kells. Navan (town of the one million traffic lights) is a close second. Anybody any idea if any parts of the road will be opened this year?

    Late last year I spoke with a fella working on the M3 and he told me they were ahead of schedule and reckon it would be finished by November this year. Having said that was before the money shortages in the country so I dont know if any or some funding has been withdrawn or witheld.

    I did notice that:

    - at Clonee/Dunboyne they are beginning the building of the Toll Plaza

    - Trim to Navan road has now been dirverted over the new bridge just last week

    - new stretch of road between Navan to Athboy road is now open - again last week

    - Kells to Athboy and Kells to Greeka are already diverted over the new bridges for some time now

    Hopefully the motorway will be open by the end of this year.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭CUCINA


    Just testing the uploading of a photo (view of Fairyhouse bridge from M3 site, facing south). Here goes!


  • Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭CUCINA


    Eureka! (I think!). Here's another photo taken last weekend showing the Kilsaran site at Fairyhouse, viewed from the M3.
    By the way, thanks are due to Furet and Malman for their help.
    I'll send more in due course, maybe even a couple this evening...


  • Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭CUCINA


    Here's a few more...


  • Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭CUCINA


    First picture (above) (605) faces north towards Fairyhouse bridge.

    612 Close-up of toll bridge construction site, Fairyhouse

    Third photo taken from same spot as first photo, but facing south, towards Dunboyne.

    All taken last week-end...


  • Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭CUCINA


    I posted a few more photos of the M3 on the Infrastructure forum this evening, if anyone is interested...


  • Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭CUCINA


    This is a view of the driveway to the "big white house" at Fairyhouse (taken April this year). The original driveway to this house used to extend to the spot where I stood to take this photo. The next photo will show a picture I took from the same spot a year earlier.


  • Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭CUCINA


    The rubble in the foreground is the remainder of the original entrance gates to the house...the entrance was demolished the day before I took this photo!


  • Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭CUCINA


    When I was taking this picture (Fairyhouse area, facing north), last April, I noticed a guy coming up the ramp towards on a quad-bike. He whizzed past me a few seconds later, with a wave, leaving me to choke on the trail of dust after him!


  • Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭CUCINA


    One more...taken in April this year, shows back of EMO garage at Fairyhouse/Dunboyne. The cleared area was previously the front garden of a house that was demolished about fifteen months ago. I took pictures of the house some time beforehand, but although I have a printed version of it, I can't upload it here, because I have sinse deleted it from the camera.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    Funnily enough, I have a pic some where of the house that was located on the site of the toll plaza being torn down.. Must dig it out, nothing spectacular, just an excavator pulling it apart


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