Jonny Wilkinson is back.

thomond2006

Falcons call up Wilkinson for Cup


Wilkinson injured himself initially in the defeat by Gloucester in September

Newcastle Falcons have re-registered fly-half Jonny Wilkinson and lock Geoff Parling for the latter stages of the European Challenge Cup. The duo have recovered from injury and boss Steve Bates has restored them for the 12 April quarter-final at Saracens.
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Pleased to see JW back, the poor b*****d have really been to hell and back again.

chupacabra

Good to see one of the best out halves in recent times back to playing rugby again. A run of injury free games and he might force himself into the lions squad. We can only hope.

vorbis

Oh dear. Don't get me wrong, I like Wilkinson but there's no way he should be anywhere near the Lions squad. He's missed far too much rugby. The only games he'll have to prove himself will be GP games. He's not going to be the same player he was in 2003, people need to get over this.

faigs

He's not going to be the same player he was in 2003, people need to get over this.

Jeremy Guscott especially, he reckons Johno should be the starting 10 for the Lions if fit! :rolleyes:

Sangre

Wouldn't be that bothered, the guy is a phenomenal talent. Slotted back into england squad easily enough last year.

Brilliant kicker, tackler and distrbuter.

[Jackass]

Rumour linking Leinster to him also......

:eek:

Sangre

Wish he'd get out of newcastle, guy of his quality should be playing in the HC.

chupacabra

thomond2006 wrote: »

Newcastle Falcons have re-registered fly-half Jonny Wilkinson and lock Geoff Parling for the latter stages of the European Challenge Cup.

Goodnight Connacht

telemachus

Talking about a starting position is a bit bonkers but if he did manage to get fully fit I wouldn't mind him in the squad and have him try and earn his place in practise/midweek matches.

anonymous_joe

If Wilkinson was fit, and showed a hint of the form that made him... ...well made him Jonny Wilkinson I'd happily have him start for the Lions.

The guy won England a World Cup. It's that simple.

thebossanova

Any odds going on what sort of injury will rule him out of lions contention?:p

Ridiculous talent, but the April 21st deadline may be too soon for him to make his mark for a Lions jersey.

louthandproud

anonymous_joe wrote: »

If Wilkinson was fit, and showed a hint of the form that made him... ...well made him Jonny Wilkinson I'd happily have him start for the Lions.

The guy won England a World Cup. It's that simple.

he may have been the star player but he certainly didn't win it alone, that team had talent all over the place, not least Johnson and Dallaglio. Eventhough in saying that if JW could prove himself fully fit he is head and shoulders above the other contenders for 10, would need to maximise match time between now and any test game though.

Noopti

anonymous_joe wrote: »

If Wilkinson was fit, and showed a hint of the form that made him... ...well made him Jonny Wilkinson I'd happily have him start for the Lions.

The guy won England a World Cup. It's that simple.

So basically you would make the same mistake Woodward made in 2005. :rolleyes:

Hopefully Geechan will take bit more of a sensible approach. He probably will, thank God.

evil_seed

chupacabra wrote: »

Goodnight Connacht

i don't understand this comment. Connacht are playing Northampton

jam_on_toast

Noopti wrote: »

So basically you would make the same mistake Woodward made in 2005. :rolleyes:

Hopefully Geechan will take bit more of a sensible approach. He probably will, thank God.

JW was not the reason the Lions lost against NZ. New Zealand were a better team and the lions didnt stand a chance without BOD and Dallaglio.

He was picked because there were no outstanding candidates in a key position. We are in the exact same situation now, and he is a proven performer in big matches.

How many southern hemisphere away test matches has ROG and Jones won?

Also, having a defensively able 10 could be key as the Boks are probably gonna target that area.

Noopti

jam_on_toast wrote: »

JW was not the reason the Lions lost against NZ. New Zealand were a better team and the lions didnt stand a chance without BOD and Dallaglio.

He was picked because there were no outstanding candidates in a key position. We are in the exact same situation now, and he is a proven performer in big matches.

How many southern hemisphere away test matches has ROG and Jones won?

Also, having a defensively able 10 could be key as the Boks are probably gonna target that area.

I never said he was the reason we lost. I said Woodward made the same mistake some people here are making. That is, picking a player who has been more or less injured for a long time based on past form, and who has barely played. It is crazy.

And Jones will be more than able to defend. O'Gara less so, but I would still take these two fully fit, test match ready and uninjured 10's over Wilko.

thehighground

anonymous_joe wrote: »

If Wilkinson was fit, and showed a hint of the form that made him... ...well made him Jonny Wilkinson I'd happily have him start for the Lions.

The guy won England a World Cup. It's that simple.

That is a akin to saying ROG won the GS with his drop goal!

That was a very, very good English team - Johnson, Hill, Dallaglio, Robinson etc. etc. (btw, Jonny missed a conversion as far as I remember in the final, didn't he?).

Has Wilkinson played rugby under the ELVs yet? Big ask, even of him, to play test rugby without any international warm-up time.

stephen_n

In fairness given the fact that he has hardly had a season injury free since England won the world cup he would be ah huge risk for the Lions tour, there is no question of his talent or his ability but it would be hard to see him return to what he was after so many long injury lay offs. Psychologically more than anything I doubt he will ever make it again on the international stage!

buck65

Wilko as much as I like the guy should be nowhere near the Lions squad. He , when last fit was deposed in the England no. 10 jersey by Danny Cipriani.
The injuries have all taken a toll and he is not the same player any more. Far too obvious and one dimensional and even slower than o Gara now!
His tackle and work rate is phenomenal and a good holding outhalf, but would be meat and drink to the Boks. Couldn't see too many line breaks with Jonny at 10.
My 3 outhalf choices would be Jones, O Gara and Cipriani. With Hook in the wings.

Robbo

evil_seed wrote: »

i don't understand this comment. Connacht are playing Northampton

In the quarters. Could be Newcastle in the semis.

It's the kind of optimism I like to hear considering I'm going over to Northampton Saturday week.

twinytwo

the boks would smash the crap put of him from day one as they will do to BOD.. we all know how much bruger likes to come over rucks with the shoulder

anonymous_joe

louthandproud wrote: »

he may have been the star player but he certainly didn't win it alone, that team had talent all over the place, not least Johnson and Dallaglio. Eventhough in saying that if JW could prove himself fully fit he is head and shoulders above the other contenders for 10, would need to maximise match time between now and any test game though.

He was the difference though. In the same way that we'd never have won the GS without O'Driscoll, it was Wilkinson that made the difference.

Noopti wrote: »

So basically you would make the same mistake Woodward made in 2005. :rolleyes:

Hopefully Geechan will take bit more of a sensible approach. He probably will, thank God.

I said if he was fully fit and showed form.

thehighground wrote: »

That is a akin to saying ROG won the GS with his drop goal!

That was a very, very good English team - Johnson, Hill, Dallaglio, Robinson etc. etc. (btw, Jonny missed a conversion as far as I remember in the final, didn't he?).

Has Wilkinson played rugby under the ELVs yet? Big ask, even of him, to play test rugby without any international warm-up time.

I'd have actually made the comparison with O'Driscoll, his tries (and that drop goal) were what earned us the Grand Slam. He was the difference.

And he's played for Newcastle a bit this season, they play under the ELVs right?

It's easy to get carried away with Wilkinson, but he's the best out-half I've ever seen play, but then I'm not really old enough to have paid attention to anyone before 2000 or so...

Noopti

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I said if he was fully fit and showed form.

Well then, he won't be travelling. As he is only fit now (not fully fit) and will have no time to display the form necessary to justify a place on the tour.

twinytwo

anonymous_joe wrote: »

If Wilkinson was fit, and showed a hint of the form that made him... ...well made him Jonny Wilkinson I'd happily have him start for the Lions.

The guy won England a World Cup. It's that simple.

Its not that simple ya jonny was outstanding in 03 but England also had the prob the best pack to ever set foot on a pitch from 1 to 8 were at the top of their game.... that said jonny set a WC points record that will prob never be broken his test point record should also be out of touch but **** happens.

conf101

twinytwo wrote: »

that said jonny set a WC points record that will prob never be broken his test point record should also be out of touch but **** happens.

Imagine how high his points record(s) would be had he not been ravaged by injuries!!! :eek:

anonymous_joe

Noopti wrote: »

Well then, he won't be travelling. As he is only fit now (not fully fit) and will have no time to display the form necessary to justify a place on the tour.

Alright, honestly, do you think Stephen Jones or Ronan O'Gara is as good as Wilkinson?

twinytwo wrote: »

Its not that simple ya jonny was outstanding in 03 but England also had the prob the best pack to ever set foot on a pitch from 1 to 8 were at the top of their game.... that said jonny set a WC points record that will prob never be broken his test point record should also be out of touch but **** happens.

See - he set that record. The guy was superb. Great kicker, good defender, alright attacker.

Noopti

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Alright, honestly, do you think Stephen Jones or Ronan O'Gara is as good as Wilkinson?

A fully fit 2003 Johnny Wilkinson? No way, he was miles above them.

A broken down, hardly played 2009 Johnny Wilkinson. I would put O'Gara and Jones ahead of him. No doubt in my mind.

Note that you, and others, all refer to his quality in the past tense?

anonymous_joe

Noopti wrote: »

A fully fit 2003 Johnny Wilkinson? No way, he was miles above them.

A broken down, hardly played 2009 Johnny Wilkinson. I would put O'Gara and Jones ahead of him. No doubt in my mind.

Note that you, and others, all refer to his quality in the past tense?

Definitely noted. I said a fully fit Wilkinson who showed glimpses of his past form after all. I'd rather him, fit, than anyone else for the Lions because, well, he's better. But if he's not fit, which is quite likely, well, then it's a problem.

Sure look at Henson, whether you like him or not, everyone knows he's a very talented player, but he's not really been fit in a year. He'd be bloody handy at 12 for the Lions, but I can't see him making it.

Wilkinson's the same - if he can prove himself fit, then throw him on the plane for sure.

Noopti

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Wilkinson's the same - if he can prove himself fit, then throw him on the plane for sure.

Absolutely! My only caveat being that he must prove himself fit AND on form. And he really only has one game before the squad is announced so I can't see how that could possibly happen.

That is why I think we/and some pundits, should just stop going on and on about him being picked. It seems pointless to me.

anonymous_joe

Noopti wrote: »

Absolutely! My only caveat being that he must prove himself fit AND on form. And he really only has one game before the squad is announced so I can't see how that could possibly happen.

That is why I think we/and some pundits, should just stop going on and on about him being picked. It seems pointless to me.

It's hard to in a way. Problem with the Lions tour is you've got so many different motivations, some people want lots of guys from their home team, some want to win it, etc. Some want form rewarded and so on. So many varying perspectives it's easy to get caught up by one.

Diom

chupacabra wrote: »

Goodnight Connacht

Have to beat Northampton away first. :pac:

Stev_o

The guy got England to a RWC final 2 years ago with a completely screwed up ankle. When push came to shove he delivered for them (yes not to the levels of 2003 but high enough none the less). Hopefully, like BOD he can over come his injuries and give some performances that are well and truly dew.

thehighground

anonymous_joe wrote: »

He was the difference though. In the same way that we'd never have won the GS without O'Driscoll, it was Wilkinson that made the difference.

I said if he was fully fit and showed form.
I'd have actually made the comparison with O'Driscoll, his tries (and that drop goal) were what earned us the Grand Slam. He was the difference.

What is your criteria - Peter Stringer's try was fairly important against Scotland. If ROG didn't make the last conversion in the England game, that could have been the difference. Why BOD's try & DG are so remarked on is because it was a typical try for a backrower. I've no doubt David Wallace, Jamie Heaslip or someone else would have got that try a few seconds later. The Drop Goal was the same - it was an OH's points! You come across as having a bit of man-love for Jonny & BOD

And he's played for Newcastle a bit this season, they play under the ELVs right?

According to website he has played 4 times this season! Just checked to see if it was upd-dated and someone else had played 22 games.

It's easy to get carried away with Wilkinson, but he's the best out-half I've ever seen play, but then I'm not really old enough to have paid attention to anyone before 2000 or so...

Before you get too carried away ... if he is so wonderful, (a) how come Newcastle don't do too well (I know he rarely plays - which is another story!)
(b) how come Ireland have beaten them every time (bar when Cipriani since 2003) - can't remember if he played them all, but he started the Ireland v England game in 2007 in Croke Park.

btw, I'm arguing that rugby is a team sport - and the reason England won the world cup was because England had a world class team.

Stev_o

thehighground wrote: »

, (a) how come Newcastle don't do too well (I know he rarely plays - which is another story!)
(b) how come Ireland have beaten them every time (bar when Cipriani since 2003) - can't remember if he played them all, but he started the Ireland v England game in 2007 in Croke Park.

Because Newcastle aren't a huge team, they don't have quality players. Name some of the star Newcastle backs or forwards and you ll draw up very little names bar Burke and now Heymans who is only now delivering. They are a limited side and it's only now that they'v said "f*ck it im sick of loosing lets just stop with this whole pre programmed method of playing and just go out and play" and it has resulted them getting results.

He didn't play against us in 2004,2005,2006. Only 2001 and 2007 which makes the argument a bit flawed.

thehighground

Stev_o wrote: »

Because Newcastle aren't a huge team, they don't have quality players. Name some of the star Newcastle backs or forwards and you ll draw up very little names bar Burke and now Heymans who is only now delivering. They are a limited side and it's only now that they'v said "f*ck it im sick of loosing lets just stop with this whole pre programmed method of playing and just go out and play" and it has resulted them getting results.

He didn't play against us in 2004,2005,2006. Only 2001 and 2007 which makes the argument a bit flawed.

It doesn't make my argument flawed. The score (with Jonny as OH) was 43-13 to Ireland - Did Jonny or the England team lose that one :rolleyes:

ScholesyIsGod

He played in 2003 when England battered us and won the Grand Slam and he put on an absolute master class

Stev_o

thehighground wrote: »

It doesn't make my argument flawed. The score (with Jonny as OH) was 43-13 to Ireland - Did Jonny or the England team lose that one :rolleyes:

2000
England 50–18 Ireland
Try Cohen 2, Tindall, Healey 2, Back
Con Wilkinson 4
Pen Wilkinson 4

2002
England 45 – 11 Ireland
Tries: Greenwood (2)
Wilkinson
Cohen
Worsley
Kay
Con: Wilkinson (6)
Pen: Wilkinson

2003
England 42 -Ireland 6
Tries: Greenwood (2)
Dallaglio
Tindall
Luger
Con: Wilkinson (3)
Grayson
Pen: Wilkinson
Drop: Wilkinson (2)

So how bout those then?

thehighground

ScholesyIsGod wrote: »

He played in 2003 when England battered us and won the Grand Slam and he put on an absolute master class

After 3 goes, that England team won the GS. Johnson, Dallaglio, Hill, Robinson, etc. etc. They were all world class. The toughest game that Munster had last year for the Heineken Cup was against Saracens - and Richard Hill was most of the problem - that's how good that England team were. Wasps (Dallaglio) another team over that period, not to mention a rake of that England team were at Leicester who just won all round them over the last couple of years.

Most people attribute England's success to Johnson's leadership, although I think there were a fair few leaders in that group.

ScholesyIsGod

thehighground wrote: »

After 3 goes, that England team won the GS. Johnson, Dallaglio, Hill, Robinson, etc. etc. They were all world class. The toughest game that Munster had last year for the Heineken Cup was against Saracens - and Richard Hill was most of the problem - that's how good that England team were. Wasps (Dallaglio) another team over that period, not to mention a rake of that England team were at Leicester who just won all round them over the last couple of years.

Most people attribute England's success to Johnson's leadership, although I think there were a fair few leaders in that group.

That was meant as a reply to Stev_o when he said Wilkinson only played in 2001 and 2007

ScholesyIsGod

Stev_o wrote: »

2000
England 50–18 Ireland
Try Cohen 2, Tindall, Healey 2, Back
Con Wilkinson 4
Pen Wilkinson 4

2002
England 45 – 11 Ireland
Tries: Greenwood (2)
Wilkinson
Cohen
Worsley
Kay
Con: Wilkinson (6)
Pen: Wilkinson

2003
England 42 -Ireland 6
Tries: Greenwood (2)
Dallaglio
Tindall
Luger
Con: Wilkinson (3)
Grayson
Pen: Wilkinson
Drop: Wilkinson (2)

So how bout those then?

The fact that we lost all those games by more then 30 points shows that anybody could have played out half on those occasions and we still would have lost.

Stev_o

ScholesyIsGod wrote: »

That was meant as a reply to Stev_o when he said Wilkinson only played in 2001 and 2007

No no no im saying he played in those two matches that we won and he lost while starting OH which is the argument Highground is trying to make. While iv pointed out he's start 2003,2002,2000 i think he played in 1999 at centre but can't find the stats im afraid.

anonymous_joe

thehighground wrote: »

What is your criteria - Peter Stringer's try was fairly important against Scotland. If ROG didn't make the last conversion in the England game, that could have been the difference. Why BOD's try & DG are so remarked on is because it was a typical try for a backrower. I've no doubt David Wallace, Jamie Heaslip or someone else would have got that try a few seconds later. The Drop Goal was the same - it was an OH's points! You come across as having a bit of man-love for Jonny & BOD

Bod? Dear Lord, no. He;s got a wonky nose. As for Johnny, nah, bit old. :pac:

But seriously the difference between Ireland winning and losing the Grand Slam was O'Driscoll, the try against Wales, against England, the interception against England when they had a 3 or 4 man overlap, etc.

According to website he has played 4 times this season! Just checked to see if it was upd-dated and someone else had played 22 games.


Before you get too carried away ... if he is so wonderful, (a) how come Newcastle don't do too well (I know he rarely plays - which is another story!)
(b) how come Ireland have beaten them every time (bar when Cipriani since 2003) - can't remember if he played them all, but he started the Ireland v England game in 2007 in Croke Park.

btw, I'm arguing that rugby is a team sport - and the reason England won the world cup was because England had a world class team.

Rugby is a team sport, but a talented individual stands out. Munster have had very few outstanding individuals over the past few years, Leinster have actually had a couple and done significantly worse, so team is clearly crucial in rugby.

Look at New Zealand, Carter and Carlos Spencer are and were clearly capable of winning games for New Zealand they might otherwise have lost.

Take our England game as an example - if O'Driscoll hadn't scored, would England have kept us out and cost us the slam? What if Wilkinson hadn't kicked an average of 16 points for England at their peak?

I want us to win the Lions tour. I really, really, really do. And I don't think O'Gara or Jones is better than Wilkinson at his peak. I don't think they're that bad, I just think his kicking is more accurate, and he's a bit more physical, and while O'Gara rarely if ever gets beaten, do you want Spies or Kankowski with Burger in support rampaging down that channel constantly?

Again, it's all pie in the sky stuff, but with Wilkinson as an English player once said, you start off with a 16 point advantage in the game, given the extra distance the ball will travel in 2 of the tests, that could be crucial...

ScholesyIsGod

Wilkinson will not be worth 16 points if he goes on the Lions tour, that was 6 years ago and he had an unbelievable pack in front of him.

thehighground

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Bod? Dear Lord, no. He;s got a wonky nose. As for Johnny, nah, bit old. :pac:

But seriously the difference between Ireland winning and losing the Grand Slam was O'Driscoll, the try against Wales, against England, the interception against England when they had a 3 or 4 man overlap, etc.



Rugby is a team sport, but a talented individual stands out. Munster have had very few outstanding individuals over the past few years, Leinster have actually had a couple and done significantly worse, so team is clearly crucial in rugby.

Look at New Zealand, Carter and Carlos Spencer are and were clearly capable of winning games for New Zealand they might otherwise have lost.

Take our England game as an example - if O'Driscoll hadn't scored, would England have kept us out and cost us the slam? What if Wilkinson hadn't kicked an average of 16 points for England at their peak?

I want us to win the Lions tour. I really, really, really do. And I don't think O'Gara or Jones is better than Wilkinson at his peak. I don't think they're that bad, I just think his kicking is more accurate, and he's a bit more physical, and while O'Gara rarely if ever gets beaten, do you want Spies or Kankowski with Burger in support rampaging down that channel constantly?

Again, it's all pie in the sky stuff, but with Wilkinson as an English player once said, you start off with a 16 point advantage in the game, given the extra distance the ball will travel in 2 of the tests, that could be crucial...

OK - lets cut to the chase - I believe forwards win games (sorry for the cliche) you obviously think backs do.

I have a funny feeling that the ABs would miss Richie McCaw more than they would miss Dan Carter.

I think the ELVs would make it very difficult for Jonny to kick the penalties. Wales won a huge amount of penalties against Ireland, but they were mostly in Wales' half. Not even Jonny would have been able to kick them.

Another thing on fitness - when Uncle Deccie took over the job as Ireland coach, he said that talking to coaches in Aus & NZ, they all said that your fitness level had to be really up their as there were not as many little breaks etc. to get a breather. I don't know if anyone saw Mike McGurn's interview in the IT (used to be Irish fitness coach, now the Osprey's coach) and he mentioned that the major difference between Ireland and Wales was that the Irish lads were a lot fitter than the Welsh lads. Now, how is Jonny going to deal with the High Veldt?

stephen_n

thehighground wrote: »

OK - lets cut to the chase - I believe forwards win games (sorry for the cliche) you obviously think backs do.

I have a funny feeling that the ABs would miss Richie McCaw more than they would miss Dan Carter.

I think the ELVs would make it very difficult for Jonny to kick the penalties. Wales won a huge amount of penalties against Ireland, but they were mostly in Wales' half. Not even Jonny would have been able to kick them.

Another thing on fitness - when Uncle Deccie took over the job as Ireland coach, he said that talking to coaches in Aus & NZ, they all said that your fitness level had to be really up their as there were not as many little breaks etc. to get a breather. I don't know if anyone saw Mike McGurn's interview in the IT (used to be Irish fitness coach, now the Osprey's coach) and he mentioned that the major difference between Ireland and Wales was that the Irish lads were a lot fitter than the Welsh lads. Now, how is Jonny going to deal with the High Veldt?

Forwards win ball backs win games, i.e. as you first said it's a team game and you could have the best forwards in the world put them with a bad backline and bad OH and they will loose. It's like the Argument that O'Gara won the game against Wales with his DG, which clearly wasn't the case because we didn't win three nil and in anyway it took an immense effort by the forwards to win the restart and get us in position to do it but I really doubt one of our forwards would have got the DG to finish it off therefore team sport!

Having said all that I do believe that if you took Wilkinson and Johnston out of the 2003 team i don't think England would have won it even with all the other great forwards they had. No more than we would have won this GS without BOD and POC so in that way the top players do affect a team performance!

anonymous_joe

thehighground wrote: »

OK - lets cut to the chase - I believe forwards win games (sorry for the cliche) you obviously think backs do.

I have a funny feeling that the ABs would miss Richie McCaw more than they would miss Dan Carter.

I think the ELVs would make it very difficult for Jonny to kick the penalties. Wales won a huge amount of penalties against Ireland, but they were mostly in Wales' half. Not even Jonny would have been able to kick them.

Another thing on fitness - when Uncle Deccie took over the job as Ireland coach, he said that talking to coaches in Aus & NZ, they all said that your fitness level had to be really up their as there were not as many little breaks etc. to get a breather. I don't know if anyone saw Mike McGurn's interview in the IT (used to be Irish fitness coach, now the Osprey's coach) and he mentioned that the major difference between Ireland and Wales was that the Irish lads were a lot fitter than the Welsh lads. Now, how is Jonny going to deal with the High Veldt?

Fúck off with the backs, I was a forward once upon a time. :pac:

McCaw might be more important, but Carter scores the points, and takes the chances if you get me.

Fitness will be crucial, we've been miles ahead of everyone else lately, no doubts there.

ScholesyIsGod

To be a successful side you need a good pack AND a good set of backs.

But when it comes down to it a good forward pack is more important then a good set of backs, if you have the best backline in the world and a rubbish pack that cant secure the ball or get on the front foot and make some hard yards then the backline will never see the ball to do anything with it.

anonymous_joe

ScholesyIsGod wrote: »

To be a successful side you need a good pack AND a good set of backs.

But when it comes down to it a good forward pack is more important then a good set of backs, if you have the best backline in the world and a rubbish pack that cant secure the ball or get on the front foot and make some hard yards then the backline will never see the ball to do anything with it.

Check out the Canes back line. Then their pack. ><

(Or it might be the chiefs, it's one of those two. :pac:)

Chucky the tree

I dont see the point is arguing over Jonny, ROG and Stehphen jones. If Wilkinson is fit do people and has played a few games for newcastle and done well do people think Cipraini or Hook should of been taken ahead of him? To be honest from what I have seen Jonny might have a tough time getting picked ahead of tom May if Newcastle keep on trucking like they are.