Orgasmic childbirth - Fact or fiction?

OldGoat

There was a piece written in the Sunday Times yesterday about the idea of orgasming during childbirth. The story put forth the idea that if the mother is relaxed and confident and comfortable that she can enjoy childbirth due to stimulation from the birth itself. For one of the women interviewed this involved being nurtured along by her 'doula' – (a kind of a shamen’ess birth organiser favoured by some women?) into a relaxed state.
The gist of the piece was that if the mother is not being told what to do and when to do it and is not being harried by the medical staff nor ordered to perform on command then this leads to a more relaxed state where erotic stimulation of the perineum by the babies head can cause a prolonged orgasm (Ref: Ferguson’s Reflex) making the birth a pleasurable and painless ordeal.
The story may have some foundation in truth as during birth the body produces extra hormones - prolactin, beta-endorphins and oxytocins, all of which are also produced during orgasm.
All the evidence seems to be anecdotal though. So I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience of this, either first or second hand.
Sorry I can't link to the story, damned firewall.

Nevyn

I reckon it's possilbe but unlikely to be probable for most.

WindSock

Yes I read this yesterday too. Would be interested to know this also, perhaps it would explain the 6 Billion + world population .

Wibbs

Anatomically it stands to reason that it could happen. The whole vagina is under huge pressure and areas like the G spot and the rest of the internal clitoral structure would be heavily stimulated(some women are more stimulated that way anyway IME). In some women that could well trigger orgasm, especially with the addition of oxytocin and endorphins that would be flooding the brain. I would reckon, like orgasm in general the state of the womans mind at the time would have a lot to do with it too. If not everything.

I reckon it would also depend on how easily she gives birth and how little physical trauma she suffers. That seems to vary a lot in my limited experience of women I've known who gave birth. One woman I know went from her waters breaking to giving birth in a couple of hours. She and her baby were home by the late afternoon. A root canal would have taken longer. Same with her second baby. She didn't need anaesthetic, stitches etc either. I think the medical term is "lucky bitch"

WindSock

I remember reading once that the same chemicals are released in your brain for orgasms and chilbirth. Oxytocin, Dopamine & Phenyletamine, they are help to create euphoria form a bond.

Earthhorse

I read that article too. The gist of it seems to be that certain quarters believe this is possible for all women to achieve merely by becoming less regimented about their approach to birth but I think that's unlikely to prove to be the case. Having said that, I don't doubt that some women do orgasm during birth.

Gone Drinking

I never post in here, actually, i don't think men should post in here at all and sometimes when they do they look like they're desperate for female attention but i saw this post on the front page and i had to say..

I'd be fairly disgusted if i found out my ma had an orgasm when i left her womb!

WindSock

Gone Drinking wrote: »

I'd be fairly disgusted if i found out my ma had an orgasm when i left her womb!

So you would rather she be ripped apart and be screaming in agony?

Gone Drinking

Yes Windsock, because thats the only two scenarios for childbirth..

To have an orgasm, or to be ripped apart and screaming in agony. :rolleyes:

NewFrockTuesday

No way in hell. I refuse for one moment to believe that the horrific pain of giving birth can be masked or interfered with by any sort of orgasm – I don’t care if your eyeballs are popping out on a regular basis with your man (although that may not be entirely attractive) – I am closing my mind to this one right off the bat. A kick in the balls should also then no? Seeing as the pleasure/pain thing is so closely related?

Ignoring the fantastic end result – its so diabolically painful and in no way pleasurable, not even the hardest bdsm fan would be able to get off on childbirth. And don’t start with the “but childbirth is a beautiful thing and its not all pain and tearing and sweating and screaming”. Yes, it is.* Its only the end result that stops you looking for the nearest window to fling yourself head first out of. I fear I may have said too much, but it’s the stupidest thing Ive heard in a long time.

Jesus, people will say anything to get a bit of ink space.


*For any ladies 1st time pregnant reading this, it’s a walk in the park really. Everyone just gets all het up about it*.


*Honest.

WindSock

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Yes Windsock, because thats the only two scenarios for childbirth..

To have an orgasm, or to be ripped apart and screaming in agony. :rolleyes:

What are the other scenarios?

jellie

WindSock wrote: »

Yes I read this yesterday too. Would be interested to know this also, perhaps it would explain the 6 Billion + world population .

thats probably explained by the baby making process :pac:

surely if this was possible thered be far more women trying it? i cant help but be skeptical..

siobhan.murphy

there is nothin natural or nice about giving birth,and no you dont ever forget the pain.

Akantha

Gone Drinking wrote: »

I never post in here, actually, i don't think men should post in here at all and sometimes when they do they look like they're desperate for female attention !

If you were ever wondering, you are not alone in those thoughts

OldGoat

Deepsense wrote: »

– its so diabolically painful and in no way pleasurable

siobhan.murphy wrote: »

there is nothin natural or nice about giving birth,and no you dont ever forget the pain.

Might I ask if ye both had conventional births? I mean the 'on your back in a hospital ward' kind? The article seems to be implying that some women can eliminate the stresses and worries to such a degree that they can achieve organism but that conventional hospital treatment does not foster a stress free enviroment.

For the record Mrs. Goat -who was very relaxed during her two pregnencies- read the artice and responded with a resounding "No Fcking way!".

Wibbs

Oh I have no doubt it's majorly rare, but people differ and as I noted, I can think of one woman who gave birth remarkably easily and quickly. She described it as not so much pain but immense pressure, but she was so focused on the birth and was so zonked out from endorphins that birth itself holds no worries for her. She is obviously an unusual case and I can fully accept that in even more unusual cases a woman may have an ecstatic type birth(I think the orgasm word throws people a little)

Everyone differs even in the same family, the aforementioned woman's sister was in bits with her birth though and needed quite a bit of medical aftercare due to the physical trauma of the whole thing.

I would disagree in one way with siobhan.murphy, it is "natural". Though the pain involved that most women report, makes me glad I don't have to go through it.

NewFrockTuesday

I had everypain killer available pumped into me at a rate of knots and it was still so bad I wanted to rip my own head off. There is a certain ammount you can relieve Im sure, but not to any extend that it might make a such a significant impact on the pain that your body decides this is so dammed great its going to treat you to an off the bat orgasm.

Its just another way to lessen and <Ill insert the word when I think of it - something like "cheapen" but not it> the whole birthing experience. "Oh darling, please dont scream so loudly, some women have orgasms right about now you know"


RRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP*


*that was his arm coming out of his socket. Now Im going to beat thim to death with it.


That would pretty much describe "happy and relaxed" me during the happy event. But that was just me I hasten to add.

For the record Mrs. Goat -who was very relaxed during her two pregnencies- read the artice and responded with a resounding "No Fcking way!".

I agree with Mrs Goat.

Wibbs

Deepsense wrote: »

And do you know whats funny. Its just another way to lessen and <Ill insert the word when I think of it - something like "cheapen" but not it> the whole birthing experience. "Oh darling, please dont scream so loudly, some women have orgasms right about now you know"

Or, if some rare women do feel no pain and actually feel pleasure from giving birth, if they can isolate the mechanism of that and find a way to induce that they might be able to make birth an easier experience for other women. That would be the angle of research I'd be interested in.

That would pretty much describe "happy and relaxed" me during the happy event. But that was just me I hasten to add.

That was my point. It is an individual thing, like everything else. Though the woman I mentioned is obviously a pretty rare case.

kayos

siobhan.murphy wrote: »

there is nothin natural or nice about giving birth,and no you dont ever forget the pain.

Nothing natural? Where the hell did you learn biology? It is perfectly natural.

Now I wont say anything on the pain front, as a near 12lb baby I don’t think it would be my place to say anything about the pain thing.

Could some women orgasm from it? I’m sure there is the rare cases but I think rare is the word to use here.

WindSock

Would it be better to do the pushing at your own pace rather than have a midwife beating a giant drum and chanting push!PUSH!push!PUSH!?

NewFrockTuesday

Or, if some rare women do feel no pain

These women do not exist

actually feel pleasure from giving birth

These women might - Ive yet to meet one. I think the pleasure comes from the release from pain when the child is born and then from the chld itself. Not from the corporial experience during. Its like banging your head off a wall and then feeling great because you decide to stop banging your head off that wall.

Or, if some rare women do feel no pain and actually feel pleasure from giving birth, if they can isolate the mechanism of that and find a way to induce that they might be able to make birth an easier experience for other women. That would be the angle of research I'd be interested in.

You make it sound like you could find out the ingredients and bottle it. There are kittens born with two heads but noones encouraging Mrs Moggy to aspire to that. Why does everything always have to go one better or faster or smoother? We're basically discussing freaks of nature. I just cant open my mind to this at all on any sort of widescale level. It beggars belief.

tba

NSFW!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vlm9y6hQpk

Wibbs

Deepsense wrote: »

These women do not exist

No pain at all? I agree unless in some really weird freakish conditions where pain is not felt due to some medical reason, but some women feel a lot less than others and some of course feel a lot more. Pain responses vary and vary with particular conditions. So a woman may have an "easy" first birth and a really difficult subsequent birth.

These women might - Ive yet to meet one. I think the pleasure comes from the release from pain when the child is born and then from the chld itself. Not from the corporial experience during. Its like banging your head off a wall and then feeling great because you decide to stop banging your head off that wall.

I'd say theres a lot of that as well as the release of all sorts of brain chemicals afterward.

You make it sound like you could find out the ingredients and bottle it. There are kittens born with two heads but noones encouraging Mrs Moggy to aspire to that. Why does everything always have to go one better or faster or smoother? We're basically discussing freaks of nature. I just cant open my mind to this at all on any sort of widescale level. It beggars belief.

Well two headed kittens are hardly desirable, better pain relief during birth for all women is surely a worthwhile quest though? If there are very rare women who do go through this experience and feel pleasure and science can refine that into a therapy that's safer than epidurals, then "bottling" that would surely help other women?

Then again there are the types who think women should feel pain during birth. That it's their "lot in life" etc

Nevyn

It is possible for a woman to have a high pain tolerance level, have masochistic traits
and have a relatively easy birth and for it to be pleasurable for her ? Yes.

I will say that giving birth to my kids was one of the intense all over body experiences ever
and yes I did have to opt for the epidural for a handful of hours in each
case. If I hadn't of been induced I would have not had it for the second birth but
as it was I know by body and how to work with and through that pain and was
smiling and laughing in between contractions.

Given that we are conditioned to think of child birth as being horrendous, painful, messy
and humiliating then that is all going to make a woman nervous, afraid and tense up
which will make the pain worse and the experience far from pleasant.

Having a positive mental attitude to many things makes them a lot easier and I have to
say that I agree that it can do that with giving birth.

NewFrockTuesday

Well two headed kittens are hardly desirable,

Its the freak of nature angle I was referring to. Bad choice maybe. Youll have to give me time to figure out my freak analogys.

better pain relief during birth for all women is surely a worthwhile quest though?

The pain relief is there already - loads of them to choose from. If you want any of that hippie nonsense go to India to a dirt track, give birth there and really get in touch with yourself. And your maker maybe - certainly more of a chance of it, but hey, if you believe that only your mind is going to bring you through whats in store and do a grand finale thumper of an orgasm, more power to you and I am envious of your optimism.

If there are very rare women who do go through this experience and feel pleasure and science can refine that into a therapy that's safer than epidurals, then "bottling" that would surely help other women?

No. I disagree. Its obviously a mind thing if these women exist and so few and far between are they, that there would never be enough evidence to even get near helping other women. Why would you waste a ton of money on researching this when it would be better served to helping the women who actually need it - back here on planet earth. Some things are just nonsense and dont warrant the effort of exploration. Its never going to matter on a large scale - just like my two headed kitten.

Wibbs

Deepsense wrote: »

Its the freak of nature angle I was referring to. Bad choice maybe. Youll have to give me time to figure out my freak analogys.

The pain relief is there already - loads of them to choose from.

Yes but clearly they are not enough for many women or have side effects, sometimes very bad ones. And how did they come up with those therapies? Research.

If you want any of that hippie nonsense go to India to a dirt track, give birth there and really get in touch with yourself. And your maker maybe - certainly more of a chance of it, but hey, if you believe that only your mind is going to bring you through whats in store, more power to you.

Eh nope, don't get you.

No. I disagree. Its obviously a mind thing if these women exist and so few and far between are they, that there would never be enough evidence to even get near helping other women.

No it could just as easily be a physical thing too. Your mind releases natural endorphins in extreme circumstances hence you hear of people who have been horribly mangled feel no pain. Natural opiates. But we have artificial opiates for those people who do feel pain. Morphine etc.

Why would you waste a ton of money on researching this when it would be better served to helping the women who actually need it - back here on planet earth.

Well it would be helping women on "planet earth". You take a pill or whatever just as you go into labour and it gives you an uplifting physical experience of birth and removes pain. Can't see why that wouldn't be worth researching.

Some things are just nonsense and dont warrant the effort of exploration. Its never going to matter on a large scale - just like my two headed kitten.

All knowledge is good. Describing it as nonsense is a bit OTT, just because you don't believe it may be worthwhile research. If the human race had taken that notion all along then women wouldn't have all the pain relief drugs you already mentioned today as "it's natural they should feel pain, it's gods punishment/their lot/just the way it is etc". That was actually used as an argument in the past.

I think were this may cause issue with many is the mixing of "orgasm" with childbirth. Although sex leads to childbirth, they are separate in many minds. Like the idea that women can be aroused by breastfeeding freaks many out. It's just a physical response.

Gone Drinking

WindSock wrote: »

What are the other scenarios?

Not every woman screams in agony, my mother said giving birth was quite a calm experience. The only woman screaming in agony was my dad, the pussy.

NewFrockTuesday

Ahhhh :mad::mad::mad:

I had a respone all done out and stupid page timed stupid out. Being one of boards laziest posters, Im not doing it all out again.


Ill do it later........but in short I agree and disagree...

No it could just as easily be a physical thing too. Your mind releases natural endorphins in extreme circumstances hence you hear of people who have been horribly mangled feel no pain. Natural opiates. But we have artificial opiates for those people who do feel pain. Morphine etc.

Im not a nurse, but isint that more with sudden impact as opposed to a build up?

Im not completly dismissive of all research. The more drugs they make the merrier, Ill be first in line shaking my bucket.


Im too ticked to write anymore - patience levels at a new low today. Stupid time out.

Snowie

Im affriad to watch a kid being born i saw that moive knocked up and they show a breaf shot of the head buldging i nearly cried .... I think thats called crowning ?

LadyE

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

Im affriad to watch a kid being born i saw that moive knocked up and they show a breaf shot of the head buldging i nearly cried .... I think thats called crowning ?

Yep crowning..its friggin horrible.

the only pleasure I got from childbirth was when he was out and "Thank fook thats over" and a huge sigh of relief.

Would do it again in a heartbeat tho for my little guy.

Dudess

Gone Drinking wrote: »

i don't think men should post in here at all

Jeez... what's wrong with it?

and sometimes when they do they look like they're desperate for female attention but i saw this post on the front page and i had to say..

God, I think the most confident, self-assured guys on Boards.ie seem to post here - the kind of guys who wouldn't be worrying about where they should and shouldn't post based on how it looks/what others think/their gender. And certainly not guys desperate for female attention - they strike me as guys who'd get plenty of female attention, partly because they seem so comfortable in their own skin.

I'd be fairly disgusted if i found out my ma had an orgasm when i left her womb!

It would mean she fancies you.

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Yes Windsock, because thats the only two scenarios for childbirth..

To have an orgasm, or to be ripped apart and screaming in agony. :rolleyes:

Well by the sounds of it, you would prefer her to be ripped apart and screaming in agony...

Dragan

Is it possible the experience itself as opposed to any physical stimulation?

My sister in law described the birth my nephew, her first child, as being "painful but beautiful". She says she had a moment of deep and incredible pleasure and thinks it was more about the simple process of birth itself and being in the mix, so to speak.

Snowie

LadyE wrote: »

Yep crowning..its friggin horrible.

the only pleasure I got from childbirth was when he was out and "Thank fook thats over" and a huge sigh of relief.

Would do it again in a heartbeat tho for my little guy.

ahh so thats when like the head is pushing but not quite out ?
and its that like when you push ? :eek:
I bet :eek: Il put to you like this :eek:

OldGoat

Deepsense wrote: »

........but in short I agree and disagree...

It ALWAYs happens to the best ever reply you've ever written, sharp, witty, barbed and clearly a debate winner...then...you have to sum it all up with those words: "...but in short I agree and disagree"
You have my sympathody.

Nevyn

First time around the baby had to be helped out with forceps but second time
around I did feel the intense (for lack of a better word) burn as the back of the baby's
head grazed tightly against the underneath of the clitorus on the way out and the same again for the sholders and the rest of the body. The sensation was very intense and thinking back on it a bit of lube would have been helpful.

The blissful after state is pretty wonderful, not that I plan on experiencing it ever again.

OldGoat

Thaedydal wrote: »

The blissful after state is pretty wonderful, not that I plan on experiencing it ever again.

I got pretty 'blissed' after our two too.:p

eth0_

Seriously disgusting. I feel really sorry for any mothers who have had this happen to them - the embarrassment of (and this happens many women) ****ting yourself on the delivery table, with midwives and doctors prodding around in your vagina - and then having an orgasm while you're pushing the baby out??

Horrific.

Dudess

I'm sure, in the presence of professional and hopefully open-minded midwives, there would be nothing to be embarrassed about.

It's birth - it's how we're all here. Hardly "horrific".

shellyboo

eth0_ wrote: »

Seriously disgusting. I feel really sorry for any mothers who have had this happen to them - the embarrassment of (and this happens many women) ****ting yourself on the delivery table, with midwives and doctors prodding around in your vagina - and then having an orgasm while you're pushing the baby out??

Horrific.

I have never had an orgasm I could describe as 'horrific'... so this comment just baffles me.

banshee_bones

I read this in the times yesterday aswell. Also sent the link to my best friend who is expecting in July

Personally I dont see why you couldnt have a baby without any drugs. What did all the millions of women do before pain relief? They got on with it. Theres also apparantly a hormone released after childbirth that makes you forget about the pain! Also read a bit more about that article and found these pieces from various sites googled under said topic.

"Whenever you expect pain, you tense up your muscles, your stress hormone levels go up and that increases pain,"

common sense, id agree with that...

"Another key element is not to block those sensations with anesthesia -- a prospect that is not pleasing to the many women who rely on modern medicine to avoid intense suffering during childbirth"

Obviously this is all that was relied on before modern medicine...

"An orgasm is 22 times more powerful than a tranquilizer "

The 'normal' way that women give birth - laying prone in a room full of strangers - is not the natural way. It might even be the cause of some birth problems. Shanley cites a study that showed that when a stranger enters a room where a pregnant monkey is housed, :both the heart rate and the blood pressure of her fetus goes down. Of course, in the delivery room a drop in the heart rate of the baby often triggers a Cesarean section."
Shanley says that stress and 'fight or flight' reactions cause huge changes in a woman's body. "There's a reason that animals seek seclusion in birth. Everyone understands that being in a brightly lit room with a group of people watching you wouldn't make a comfortable environment for someone going to the bathroom or having sex. But for an equally intimate, personal activity like birth, people don't make the connection. Woman don't need to choose between drugs, epidurals, and Cesarean sections on one hand and fear of a natural but painful childbirth on the other. There really is a third way and it's more natural."

Nevyn

The emptying of the bowels is part of the body preparing for 3rd stage of labour.
If you know that it is likely to happen then you can make sure to go have a poo
before you get to that stage and before you are restricted to the delivery bed/chair
if you are having an epidural.

It is another reason to learn where your pelvic floor is ladies so that your flex and push
the muscles of the vaginal walls rather then those of your lower intestine during labour.

The drs and nurse are all professionals and are very swift to clear up and clean away
any poo that appears with out comment. Tbh I was more worried about throwing up
on myself but the midwife just made sure I had a disposable bowl in reach,
which I did end up using, ladies learn to listen to your bodies and it makes it all
soo much simipler.

Dudess

banshee_bones wrote: »

Personally I dont see why you couldnt have a baby without any drugs.

At the risk of resorting to cliche, say that when you're in the throes of labour.

What did all teh millions of women do before pain relief. They got on with it.

And died in a lot of cases.

The only people I'd rely on for info on what birth is like, how painful or not it is, etc... are women who have gone through it. Paper upon paper isn't going to substitute that...

Dudess

shellyboo wrote: »

I have never had an orgasm I could describe as 'horrific'... so this comment just baffles me.

I think eth0_ is referring to the embarrassment. Many women do say you lose your dignity etc. That kinda thinking irks me tbh - it just lends credence to the notion that womanly parts are dirty and shameful. Probably where the whole embarrassment, perceived loss of dignity comes from in the first place...

banshee_bones

Dudess wrote: »

At the risk of resorting to cliche, say that when you're in the throes of labour.

The only people I'd rely on for info on what birth is like, how painful or not it is, etc... are women who have gone through it. Paper upon paper isn't going to substitute that...

if and when i do fall pregnant i intend to do it without any pain relief. Friend of mine did it so its possible even when you do have the options of painkillers! and i dont dispute the feelings of any woman who has given birth and their own experiences on such,stuff i pointed out just seemed plausible to me.

Nevyn

Well banshee_bones when the brithing process became a medical matter and a medical business the dr wanted to oberseve the process and that is why women were made lie down to give birth and the horrilble history of the twlight births where women were dosed
with experimental anestetics and were said to come animalistic loosing all decorum which
was then recored in the medical journals of the time certainly didn't help.

http://wondertime.go.com/learning/article/childbirth-pain-relief_SP.html

An abridged history of pain relief in childbirth.

circa 1914-1945: twilight sleep takes over
Chloroform, which physicans often used during labor in the 1800s, had a downside. It could make breathing diffcult, even deadly, for the newborn, and the drug was iffy to dispense; you splashed some on a handkerchief and hoped for the best. But by 1914 doctors in Freiburg, Germany, were using a much more precise technique called Daemmerschlaf, or "Twilight Sleep," in which the mother was injected with morphine and scopolamine (a drug that caused amnesia) so that she'd be in a state of finely balanced semi-consciousness, without feeling pain and with scant memory of what happened.

A few U.S. hospitals began offering the injections, but suffragists rallied for more. The end of birth pain, they felt, was part of their emancipation.

Despite physicians' initial reservations, Twilight Sleep became standard procedure. As Edith Wharton writes of a mother-to-be in her 1927 novel, Twilight Sleep: "She had the blind dread of physical pain common also to most of the young women of her set. But all that was easily managed nowadays. . . . There ought to be no Pain. Nothing but Beauty."

circa 1945-1960: cruelty in maternity wards
By the time the postwar baby boom got into full swing, the sheer number of women having babies under Twilight Sleep raised a new issue: The method dulled the pain, but at what cost? Women were restrained and strapped to gurneys for their own protection as they thrashed around in bed, freed from their inhibitions by the drugs. Some had their legs clamped in stirrups for hours in order to be ready when the doctor arrived.

Mothers began to speak out. In 1958, an article headlined "Cruelty in Maternity Wards" ran in Ladies' Home Journal, and described in detail the "tortures that go on in modern delivery rooms." A flood of women sent the magazine their own horror stories. "I've seen patients with no skin on their wrists from fighting the straps," a nurse from Canada wrote.

"Just let a few husbands in the delivery rooms and let them watch what goes on there," said one reader from Detroit. "That's all it will take — they'll change it!" An Indiana mom claimed, "The whole thing is a horrible nightmare."

circa 1960-1975: enter natural childbirth
British obstetrician Grantly Dick-Read had grown up on a farm, and he did not believe women should have it any harder than domesticated animals. He was sure a natural labor could be joyous and not very painful. Fear and tension were to blame for suffering during labor, Dick-Read insisted, and if he could reduce anxiety through education and support, birth could become a positive natural experience. His 1933 book Childbirth Without Fear (published in the States in 1946) helped seed a revolution: Dick-Read is credited with coining the phrase "natural childbirth." But a hostile medical establishment marginalized him before his death in 1959.

There was one doctor, however, who was keen to build on what Dick-Read had started. Fernand Lamaze, a French obstetrician, knew Dick-Read's work. He also believed that women could give birth drug-free and in control. Lamaze, however, had a more hands-on approach. His technique was based on psychoprophylaxis, or mind over matter, taking a cue from the Soviet physiologist Ivan Pavlov (as in Pavlovian — think dogs salivating at the ring of a bell).

Like Dick-Read, Lamaze might have been dismissed — had it not been for Marjorie Karmel, an American in Paris who had sought out Lamaze to deliver her first child. Karmel took classes with Lamaze's assistant, Madame Cohen, who taught her that she could train her mind to suppress pain. "That is why we don't call our system 'natural' childbirth," said Cohen (imperiously, one imagines). "The final result should be better than nature."

Lamaze's trick was to breathe more often (some called it the small-dog panting technique). He theorized that much of the pain of labor was caused by the extraordinary activity of the uterus, which exhausts the supply of oxygen in the blood. Karmel's experience provided the basis for her 1959 book, Thank You, Dr. Lamaze. In 1960, Karmel and one of the book's admirers — Elisabeth Bing, a clinical assistant professor at New York Medical College — formed the American Society for Psychoprophylaxis in Obstetrics, to teach childbirthing classes. In 1967 a New York Times article on natural childbirth quoted a nurse from the Maternity Center in Manhattan saying that, when it came to the Lamaze Movement, "the fad element has been weeded out. Now it's in the middle of the road."

Bing, now 92, is philosophical about this sea change: "It wasn't really a movement by Lamaze or Read or me. It was a consumer movement. The time was ripe. The public doubted everything their parents had done."

circa 1975-today: the epidural era
Mothers giving birth in the late 1970s and '80s had more options than ever. They could have a hospital birth — with or without pain-relief drugs. They could deliver in a freestanding birthing center or at home, as their grandmothers had. They could be administered to by a midwife, an obstetrician, or both. And, perhaps the biggest change of all, they could have their husbands by their side throughout the whole ordeal, a shift in hospital policy that only kicked in widely around the mid-1970s.

They could also have an epidural. Backstory: In 1898 German doctor August Bier injected cocaine into his assistant's spinal column. It numbed the fellow's lower body, but the next morning he awoke with horrible vomiting and headaches. Apparently, it took the next 80-odd years to finesse the method. By the 1970s, when epidurals were first widely used in obstetrics, the numbing agent lidocaine was dripped into a tube inserted by needle into a woman's spinal column. The hitch? The procedure numbed women to their chests, causing breathing diffculty and, sometimes, heart problems.

The method got further refined as doctors learned that the needles had to be smaller, so that less spinal fluid would leak from the dura, the thin membrane that surrounds the spinal cord and the brain. Such leaks caused the fluid level to drop, which can make the brain sag, pulling on the connective tissue. The result: throbbing head pain, an infamous side e<>ect, and the hefty price one sometimes paid for the drug's numbing comfort. But the better the epidural got, the more women wanted it. In 1975, 20 percent of American women chose to have an epidural; today that figure has risen to 70 percent, spiking as high as 90 percent in some U.S. hospitals. To offer some context, the epidural rate in Japan is still in the single digits.

But as with every phase of obstetrical history, when women have felt that one way of giving birth was the way — whether decreed by religious, medical, or cultural norms — a backlash has resulted. And so it seems certain that one day, maybe soon, we will abandon the epidural, just as we have given up on coca leaves and chloroform. The question is: What will replace it?

This Just In...
Patient-controlled epidurals, which allow women in labor to adjust the timing and frequency of their anesthesia with the push of a button, have been around since 1988. What's newsworthy is this: Researchers have recently confirmed that women use an average of 30 percent less anesthesia with this method than with the continuous infusion method, where an anesthesiologist decides the dosage. Not too surprisingly, women may need less medication when they feel more in control of their pain.

The Pain Talking


1946-1948
"With my first, there was no sharp pain at all under Twilight Sleep. Just a lull and I'd drift off. Then my eyes would open and I felt like I was floating. My second baby came too fast for Twilight Sleep. I felt like my hips were ripping apart, and I ripped the sheet on the delivery table. The nurse tied me down, both wrists."

— Adelaide Thompson, on Gary and Doreen's births


1960-61
"I wanted no anesthesia but they gave it to me anyway. It was awful with my first baby, just awful. You don't remember anything that's happened. You're not aware — and I wanted to be aware. With my second, I had nothing. It was a wonderful, wonderful experience to push a baby out of you and feel it."

— Virginia Gietka, on Lisa and Heidi's births


1974
"I took Lamaze classes, and got a doctor who'd deliver at home. Our friends and family were there, 24 people in all. I could smell cooking, onions and garlic being sauteed downstairs. My pain was intense but manageable; I did my breathing. By the end, everyone was in our room singing and chanting, candles lit everywhere. It was wonderful."

— Marian Chapman, on Davika's birth


1992
"I didn't take drugs because I felt like I was already drugged. Pain was the drug and I couldn't imagine adding another substance to the mix. It felt like dying and being reborn. I liked the intensity. Afterward, I liked the Percocets."

— Sara Peters,on Madeline's birth


2001
"I joke that the epidural is the best thing that ever happened to me. It let me be present in a way that I wouldn't have been if I'd been focused on the pain. I remember feeling like the anesthesiologist was bathed in light and thinking 'You are my hero.'"

— Ann Biddle, on Jane's birth


2003
"Most people say you don't enjoy childbirth, but I did. The pain goes away right after birth. I was like, 'Let's do it again!'"

— Becca David, on Keoni's birth

Redpunto

The experience of childbirth makes you realise how much pain your body can be in and still not pass out.

banshee_bones

Don't get me wrong ladies i said i intend on doing it without any painkillers but should i reach my threshold believe me i will be the first one screaming "give me the drugs!!"

Stheno

I've not had any kids, but my mother had nine, and most of her labours (with the exception of one) lasted between 45 minutes and two hours, she was one of those women who didn't find childbirth excruciatingly painful.

My sister was the same with her two.
In that context I can see how childbirth would not necessarily be extremely painful and potentially pleasurable.

Peared

Redpunto wrote: »

The experience of childbirth makes you realise how much pain your body can be in and still not pass out.

How come you don't pass out, is it adrenaline or something?

JC 2K3

Wibbs wrote: »

You take a pill or whatever just as you go into labour and it gives you an uplifting physical experience of birth and removes pain. Can't see why that wouldn't be worth researching. All knowledge is good.

Ha! You think current drug laws would allow that?

The simple fact is they could come up with an extremely safe, non-addictive drug that induced pleasure tomorrow, and it'd still be banned.

hmm.. MDMA via epidural, I wonder....

JC 2K3

Thaedydal wrote: »

Well banshee_bones when the brithing process became a medical matter and a medical business the dr wanted to oberseve the process and that is why women were made lie down to give birth and the horrilble history of the twlight births where women were dosed
with experimental anestetics and were said to come animalistic loosing all decorum which
was then recored in the medical journals of the time certainly didn't help.

Twilight Sleep is really interesting. Scopolamine or Hyoscine is the drug found in Datura, Deadly Nightshade and similar plants. It's a delerient and an actual hallucinogen (as opposed to psychedelics such as LSD or psilocybin (found in magic mushrooms)) - in high enough doeses it doesn't just alter perception, it induces delerium, actually makes you think your hallucinations are real. Sends one into another world entirely. I'm not surprised it sent women into an "animalistic" state. Although it interacts with opiates very interestingly, sending one into a "zombie" state, i.e. twilight sleep. I suspect the dosages of both were rather difficult to get right, however, and during childbirth it must have had some rather fúcked up effects.