Forbidden fruits

Affable

I'm an intelligent, properish kinda guy, but I tend to fancy the insouciant, fickle bad girlish types that are inscrutable and too different, ie not interested in a guy like me. It's enticing to try for someone different. So am I over-estimating how interesting these girls are? Or is it genuinely there is something more interesting about abandonment/not being proper?
I know people might say, play to your strengths, but how can I bridg the gap and be successful with this kind of girl?

Affable

I guess it's just a fantasy of mine to be the proper guy who a 'bad girl' for want of better term, opens up her heart to.

MIN2511

Dude, i don't understand your post.... I know i am drunk but what exactly are you asking about?

Affable

MIN2511 wrote: »

Dude, i don't understand your post.... I know i am drunk but what exactly are you asking about?

How does a proper guy be the one who gets to a less proper girls heart?
how do I turn on a non-proper, footloose kinda girl and become her knight in shining armour, yeah, I know it's corny but it's a fantasy.

Harpie

My Fair Lady
Gloriously witty adaptation of the Broadway musical about Professor Henry Higgins, who takes a bet from Colonel Pickering that he can transform unrefined, dirty Cockney flower girl Eliza Doolittle into a lady, and fool everyone into thinking she really is one, too! He does, and thus young aristocrat Freddy Eynsford-Hill falls madly in love with her. But when Higgins takes all the credit and forgets to acknowledge her efforts, Eliza angrily leaves him for Freddy, and suddenly Higgins realizes he's grown accustomed to her face and can't really live without it.

FTW

Zaph

Harpie wrote: »

My Fair Lady
Gloriously witty adaptation of the Broadway musical about Professor Henry Higgins, who takes a bet from Colonel Pickering that he can transform unrefined, dirty Cockney flower girl Eliza Doolittle into a lady, and fool everyone into thinking she really is one, too! He does, and thus young aristocrat Freddy Eynsford-Hill falls madly in love with her. But when Higgins takes all the credit and forgets to acknowledge her efforts, Eliza angrily leaves him for Freddy, and suddenly Higgins realizes he's grown accustomed to her face and can't really live without it. Written by Tommy Peter

A chance meeting between two noted British linguists, Prof. Henry Higgins and Col. Hugh Pickering, leads to a wager that will test Higgins' skills. After they hear a cockney flower girl caterwaul in the street, Higgins proposes to transform the girl, Eliza Doolittle, into a refined Victorian lady with an aristocratic accent. After some hesitation Eliza agrees to become their test case.


FTW

Harpie, please take a moment to read what the charter has to say about off-topic and unhelpful posts.

MIN2511

Affable wrote: »

How does a proper guy be the one who gets to a less proper girls heart?
how do I turn on a non-proper, footloose kinda girl and become her knight in shining armour, yeah, I know it's corny but it's a fantasy.

Why would you try to be someone your not to please another? Sometimes change is good, but will you change everytime you meet a girl?


If you want to be her knight in shining armour, you should be the best thing that has happened to her!
What does she like, do, whats she into?

cantdecide

IME, the girls you like really don't have any interest at all in guys like you for anything you would call meaningful. Are you talking about chavs??? It sounds like a big opportunity to get hurt by someone who ultimately won't understand you and probably doesn't feel the least bit bad about mistreating you. That's just my gut feeling. I think you should be careful what you wish for...

Affable

cantdecide wrote: »

IME, the girls you like really don't have any interest at all in guys like you for anything you would call meaningful. Are you talking about chavs??? It sounds like a big opportunity to get hurt by someone who ultimately won't understand you and probably doesn't feel the least bit bad about mistreating you. That's just my gut feeling. I think you should be careful what you wish for...

Not chavs no. Just women who are more...loose cannons, danerous in some sense. I'm not talking sluts or vacuous people. Just I like to question everything, be cautious and secure about everything. Someone not like that.

Wibbs

Loose cannons are all very well, but they're potentially emotionally dangerous, which of course is part of the attraction. The thought that you can maybe be the guy(or girl) who "gets" them and 'fixes" them. IME it rarely works though.

Affable

Wibbs wrote: »

Loose cannons are all very well, but they're potentially emotionally dangerous, which of course is part of the attraction. The thought that you can maybe be the guy(or girl) who "gets" them and 'fixes" them. IME it rarely works though.

Would you like to tell me some of those stories? Might help me to glean....

Snowie

Affable wrote: »

Would you like to tell me some of those stories? Might help me to glean....

Storys yeah shore there useually selfish, seld obsorbed they tend to be out on the all night sessions while there boyfriend/husbnand is in bed looking after the kids while shes in the bathroom snorting white lines of the purvian marching powder and her legs in the air..

They get board easy, they only care about them selve's they never want to pay for a thing, they expect there lap dog of a husband to be there for them the next morning to pick up all the peace's....

At the end of the day its like this you can not beleave what every one above has said but experencing this kinda rewletioship is sole distroying,
upsetting and truly not worth it, it leaves you in a position where your hole life has been turned up side down, they take everything and give nothing back...

But shore meybe you want to ex[perence it or maybe your deluded, and think that some how you can be there white night, mate your sadly mistakein the only way a man, can bend there behavour in is, buy being even more selfish then her....

and even then it tends to be arguments and then make up's...

man dont waste your time...

Wibbs

Guy meets girl. Girl is emotional "loose cannon". This comes out in different ways. From overly down type to overly sexual for the sake of it or a mish mash of all sorts o madness. Guy thinks he's a knight in shining armour. Girl thinks same and fairytales and her expectations add to it. Both think that he can fix her. Both will be disappointed. If he does help her or if she just cops on and changes, she will tend to leave. Why? Well basically because her reasons for being with him are largely gone and he reminds her of the woman she was, not what she is now or could be in the future. She goes off with another, different type of guy and he gets to reap the benefits of the previous guys work. Very common. I'm sure there's a female equivalent, but I'm a bloke so just giving the bloke angle.

I think a lot of men like the idea of protectiing and helping to change a woman for the better. A lot of women have that fantasy from the other side which plugs into that. I know I have in the past done the whole, "I can help her" guff. I think many men do it when younger and it can be a good learning experience if a harsh one at times. Not worth the effort IMHO. You're not her shrink or life counselor. They'll get paid for their time. You won't and no, sex doesn't count.

My take anyway

Affable

Wibbs wrote: »

Guy meets girl. Girl is emotional "loose cannon". This comes out in different ways. From overly down type to overly sexual for the sake of it or a mish mash of all sorts o madness. Guy thinks he's a knight in shining armour. Girl thinks same and fairytales and her expectations add to it. Both think that he can fix her. Both will be disappointed. If he does help her or if she just cops on and changes, she will tend to leave. Why? Well basically because her reasons for being with him are largely gone and he reminds her of the woman she was, not what she is now or could be in the future. She goes off with another, different type of guy and he gets to reap the benefits of the previous guys work. Very common. I'm sure there's a female equivalent, but I'm a bloke so just giving the bloke angle.

I think a lot of men like the idea of protectiing and helping to change a woman for the better. A lot of women have that fantasy from the other side which plugs into that. I know I have in the past done the whole, "I can help her" guff. I think many men do it when younger and it can be a good learning experience if a harsh one at times. Not worth the effort IMHO. You're not her shrink or life counselor. They'll get paid for their time. You won't and no, sex doesn't count.

My take anyway

Thanks. I really don't think it's a case of can I help her. I'm kinda self-contained anyway. I haven't explained it very well. It's more how do I unleash the inner potential I have, ie I'm a smart guy, to reel in someone who's....I dunno what the word is....I'm proper right, and think Caroline Aherne as my ideal woman. That might give you an idea.

puglover

Ok maybe it's just me but I'm finding it hard to understand what it is exactly you are trying to say.

What do you mean by "proper"?? Are we talking upper class snob?

When you say Caroline Aherne, do you mean her or one of her characters? I mean are looking for someone a bit wild or simply a chav as someone put it earlier?

TBH, it's sounding like you have a bit of a superiority complex anyway. What makes you think there is such a "gap" between you and any type woman?

Affable

puglover wrote: »

Ok maybe it's just me but I'm finding it hard to understand what it is exactly you are trying to say.

What do you mean by "proper"?? Are we talking upper class snob?

When you say Caroline Aherne, do you mean her or one of her characters? I mean are looking for someone a bit wild or simply a chav as someone put it earlier?

TBH, it's sounding like you have a bit of a superiority complex anyway. What makes you think there is such a "gap" between you and any type woman?

I don't have a superiority complex at all. I just think I'm a bit proper/cautious, it's not a superiority thing. I mean, yeah, I mean her or Denise Royle. That was my teenage crush. So yeah I like mysterious, down to earth women like that that are unattainable as I'd be too straight/proper/cautious/unmanipulative/emotionally earnest..get me?

puglover

Denise Royle wasn't exactly a wild thing, nor a bad girl, nor mysterious. What is not PROPER about her? I really don't get what your issue is.

Affable

puglover wrote: »

Denise Royle wasn't exactly a wild thing, nor a bad girl, nor mysterious. What is not PROPER about her? I really don't get what your issue is.

She is mysterious. As is Aherne. The woman's an enigma, it's her compexity and inscrutablity that fascinates.
She's not proper relative to me, you get me, relative to an earnestly raised home counties boy.


Besides that, I'm not into wild things as in drug takers or pole dancers or footballers wives types. They are just ****ing idiots.

shellyboo

Affable wrote: »

I'm an intelligent, properish kinda guy, but I tend to fancy the insouciant, fickle bad girlish types that are inscrutable and too different, ie not interested in a guy like me. It's enticing to try for someone different. So am I over-estimating how interesting these girls are? Or is it genuinely there is something more interesting about abandonment/not being proper?
I know people might say, play to your strengths, but how can I bridg the gap and be successful with this kind of girl?

This thread is baffling.

OP, have you tried it on with whatever kind of girl it is you're looking for?

If not, just go do it. You'll find that human beings are human beings... you either get on with them or you don't. No magic formula.

If you have and were unsuccessful, why do you think that was? Don't tell me it's because you're "too proper". What happened, what was said, why were you rejected, etc?

puglover

Affable wrote: »

She is mysterious. As is Aherne. The woman's an enigma, it's her compexity and inscrutablity that fascinates.
She's not proper relative to me, you get me, relative to an earnestly raised home counties boy.


Besides that, I'm not into wild things as in drug takers or pole dancers or footballers wives types. They are just ****ing idiots.

I'm sorry but no I don't get it. You are not making one bit of sense.

Re your comments on what you class as wild things, you sound like a judgemental twat. Any down to earth women would see that a mile off and you wouldn't have a chance.

I don't think it's anything to do with you being "proper" you are unsuccessful with these women because you are too up yourself.

Stick to your own sort... snobs.

Affable

shellyboo wrote: »

This thread is baffling.

OP, have you tried it on with whatever kind of girl it is you're looking for?

If not, just go do it. You'll find that human beings are human beings... you either get on with them or you don't. No magic formula.

If you have and were unsuccessful, why do you think that was? Don't tell me it's because you're "too proper". What happened, what was said, why were you rejected, etc?

No, I've tried it on with something nowhere near it but approcahing it, and been told I'm too analytical, grounded and 'straight'. In others I havent been told but just sensed my 'straightness' bored them..it's like I get the sense they want to go on a journey with a guy, and I'm someone who can't go on a journey and lose myself because then I lose my inner core and I can't rely on them anyway, thay will be pulling strings. They want to be footloose and my nature doesn't trust it, but I wish I could have what it is that keeps footloose ones there, if they happen to be fascinating. I've had involvements with footloose women, but they were not interesting, just seems it cos of the footlooseness. And sorry, but I haven't got a more apt word at my disposal than that just now.

Affable

puglover wrote: »

I'm sorry but no I don't get it. You are not making one bit of sense.

Re your comments on what you class as wild things, you sound like a judgemental twat. Any down to earth women would see that a mile off and you wouldn't have a chance.

I don't think it's anything to do with you being "proper" you are unsuccessful with these women because you are too up yourself.

Stick to your own sort... snobs.

Man, there's always someone on boards who has to take an objective discussion personally. I'm no snob, that's just your hang up. You really don't know enough about me to start mud slinging.

shellyboo

Affable wrote: »

No, I've tried it on with something nowhere near it but approcahing it, and been told I'm too analytical, grounded and 'straight'. In others I havent been told but just sensed my 'straightness' bored them..it's like I get the sense they want to go on a journey with a guy, and I'm someone who can't go on a journey and lose myself because then I lose my inner core and I can't rely on them anyway, thay will be pulling strings. They want to be footloose and my nature doesn't trust it, but I wish I could have what it is that keeps footloose ones there, if they happen to be fascinating. I've had involvements with footloose women, but they were not interesting, just seems it cos of the footlooseness. And sorry, but I haven't got a more apt word at my disposal than that just now.

Too analytical is spot on, for a start.

OP, I'm a fairly intelligent woman, I write for a living, I'm all about the vocabulary – and I haven't a notion what you're on about. I'm not sure if your manner is affected or natural, but you're going to need to dial it down a bit for ANYONE, never mind the 'footloose' women you have your sights set on.

From what I'm reading here, you're after someone fun-loving and lighthearted, but with depth. You are ALL depth, by the looks of things. Lighten up, maybe? It's possible to be intelligent, profound, deep and all that without wearing it on your sleeve all day long.

Affable

shellyboo wrote: »

Too analytical is spot on, for a start.

OP, I'm a fairly intelligent woman, I write for a living, I'm all about the vocabulary – and I haven't a notion what you're on about. I'm not sure if your manner is affected or natural, but you're going to need to dial it down a bit for ANYONE, never mind the 'footloose' women you have your sights set on.

From what I'm reading here, you're after someone fun-loving and lighthearted, but with depth. You are ALL depth, by the looks of things. Lighten up, maybe? It's possible to be intelligent, profound, deep and all that without wearing it on your sleeve all day long.

I'm not claiming to be intelligent. Just analytical/serious. Basically I'm of a cautious disposition that wants to hang on to the inner life and so I'mn to good at letting go. I feel if I do, I mgiht be breifly better company, but then she'll be pulling the strigns, using me for company and then discarding me. I want the ones that make me feel dull because it's so enticing when they are inscrutable and I wanto make them mine and find intimacy I've never really had.

shellyboo

Affable wrote: »

I'm not claiming to be intelligent. Just analytical/serious. Basically I'm of a cautious disposition that wants to hang on to the inner life and so I'mn to good at letting go. I feel if I do, I mgiht be breifly better company, but then she'll be pulling the strigns, using me for company and then discarding me. I want the ones that make me feel dull because it's so enticing when they are inscrutable and I wanto make them mine and find intimacy I've never really had.

I never said you claimed to be intelligent, you obviously ARE intelligent! It wasn't a dig

How does someone use you for company and then discard you? What do you mean by that? That they're outgoing and gregarious and don't want to spend every minute with you, or that they break up with you?

fasty

People are having a hard time with your posting style because it's very verbose, but doesn't explain anything and you seem to be trying to reduce life to formula. People can't be expressed as a personality type and you can't define and analyse everything.

The right kind of woman for you is the one you meet and hit it off with when you're not even thinking about it. The woman you like to fantasise about being with is an entirely different thing. The two can coexist.

Affable

shellyboo wrote: »

I never said you claimed to be intelligent, you obviously ARE intelligent! It wasn't a dig

How does someone use you for company and then discard you? What do you mean by that? That they're outgoing and gregarious and don't want to spend every minute with you, or that they break up with you?

I know.

Well, I've been used before for entertainment then discarded. I guess I also mean I'm just somehow to straight and too attentive/earnest(never used to be), I've arrived at my positions and decisions in life through caution and maybe it shows.

shellyboo

Affable wrote: »

Well, I've been used before for entertainment then discarded.

Everybody has though. Everybody's been used. But I think you're reading too much into it... somebody going out with you for a few weeks and then breaking up with you isn't them "using you for entertainment", it's the way relationships work. You meet someone, try it, sometimes it sticks. Most times it doesn't.

It's simply a case of trial and error. And in order to find the right person you have to try A LOT, make A LOT of errors, and eventually you WILL find someone who ticks all the boxes. That person may or may not be the kind of person you THINK you want, though.

Affable

shellyboo wrote: »

Everybody has though. Everybody's been used. But I think you're reading too much into it... somebody going out with you for a few weeks and then breaking up with you isn't them "using you for entertainment", it's the way relationships work. You meet someone, try it, sometimes it sticks. Most times it doesn't.

It's simply a case of trial and error. And in order to find the right person you have to try A LOT, make A LOT of errors, and eventually you WILL find someone who ticks all the boxes. That person may or may not be the kind of person you THINK you want, though.

Yeah.

but I was tlaking abot longer relationships, freindships.
I guess it's just that the odd proper homey woman often think I'm their type, act like I can't get anything better, and I start to feel that as inevitable, you get me?

Don't think I'm a twat for that, I'm sometimes abstract to illustrate me point.

shellyboo

Affable wrote: »

Yeah.

but I was tlaking abot longer relationships, freindships.

But these have to start somewhere, you know? A longer relationship starts with one date, then another... then a two-month relationship... You can't tell from the get-go whether something is going to be long-term or not.

With my current partner, I had no expectations. Just went with the flow. We're together about two months now. Who's to say that won't turn into six months or two years or two decades? Or, we could have a meltdown this evening and I could be single tomorrow... you have to give every relationship the chance to develop without placing expectations on them.

Affable wrote: »

I guess it's just that the odd proper homey woman often think I'm their type, act like I can't get anything better, and I start to feel that as inevitable, you get me?

Don't think I'm a twat for that, I'm sometimes abstract to illustrate me point.

I totally get you, I have thought the same myself on occasion - that me/my personality/my appearance was a barrier to getting the kind of partner I actually want. I was wrong though, and so are you.

What I'm saying is, you're not just going to magically land the kind of girl you want. It really, really does take practice - and by practice I mean going out there, trying, dating. Go for it with the type of girl you THINK you want - you'll most likely find that's not what you want at all. So the next time, you're a bit wiser. So you go for the new ideal... and again, and again, until it sticks. Trust your gut and try not to overthink it too much.

Affable

shellyboo wrote: »

But these have to start somewhere, you know? A longer relationship starts with one date, then another... then a two-month relationship... You can't tell from the get-go whether something is going to be long-term or not.

With my current partner, I had no expectations. Just went with the flow. We're together about two months now. Who's to say that won't turn into six months or two years or two decades? Or, we could have a meltdown this evening and I could be single tomorrow... you have to give every relationship the chance to develop without placing expectations on them.



I totally get you, I have thought the same myself on occasion - that me/my personality/my appearance was a barrier to getting the kind of partner I actually want. I was wrong though, and so are you.

What I'm saying is, you're not just going to magically land the kind of girl you want. It really, really does take practice - and by practice I mean going out there, trying, dating. Go for it with the type of girl you THINK you want - you'll most likely find that's not what you want at all. So the next time, you're a bit wiser. So you go for the new ideal... and again, and again, until it sticks. Trust your gut and try not to overthink it too much.

Maybe I'm taking individual experiences and being too hard on myself.

Anyway, are there many women like Caroline left in Ireland hehe?!