Finglas - a history

John Mason

St. Canices Church

Did you know that the cemetery next door is rumoured to be the burial place of a King and it is thought that a relative of Princess Diana's is also amongst the dead at St. Canice’s. Certainly other rumours relating to the Church and cemetery have turned out to be true upon investigation and there is are several rich threads of information pointing to the strong likelihood that these rumours are likely to be true also. There are headstones with visible dates going back as far as 1612 (30 years before Cromwell) but the site is much more ancient and important than that. It was certainly the burial place of Vikings of Royal or High Birth as determined by the National Museum experts by the remains and brooch discovered ( one of the most impressive ever found in this country) when the foundations of this apartment block were being excavated. And indeed, one of the graves within the cemetery is that of an Aunt of Mary Shelley [ the creator of Frankenstein; daughter to a father who was a famous philosopher, advocate and practitioner of free love; mother who was an original radical women's liberation activist; wife of Shelley, the original notorious atheist punk-rock-star-hippy-free love-mystic romance poet (who spend some wild years of his lost youth as a radical pamphleteer in Ireland promoting Irish nationalism when it was most highly unfashionable) and close associate of his mad, bad and dangerous to know friend Byron. All heroes to William Butler Yeats, George Bernard Shaw, Mahatma Ghandi and Karl Marx. Anyway the Shelley line itself produced a string of lords and ladies, barons and baronets so its to be expected these families would have had plentiful contact with Princess Diana's line.


The High Cross of Finglas

Apparently there used to be one of those High Crosses in Finglas (ie 2 metre tall carved granite crosses depicting scenes from the Bible and used to teach the bible to the illiterate population)

However, in 1649 Oliver Cromwell fresh from the brutal and unremitting slaughter of the men, women and children of Drogheda continued on his rampage down towards Dublin destroying everything Catholic he could find in his way.

( Aside: I can never think of the slaughter in Drogheda without thinking of the reported incident where Royalist Arthur Ashton was beaten to death with his own wooden leg - apparently because the New Model Army soldiers thought he had gold hidden in it.)

Anyway, on hearing of the approaching army the locals in Finglas knew that St. Canice's church would be destroyed. They also knew that their beloved ancient High Cross, (which would have been about 1,000 years old at that stage) would certainly be smashed to smithereens by the marauding Roundheads. So to avoid this outcome they apparently took it down, carried it off and buried it in some field out of harms way.

That was the story anyway and no one really ever knew if it was true or just something made up to counterpoint the tale of destruction left in Finglas with the passing through of Cromwell. But the myth persisted for another 167 years until 1816 when Rev. Robert Walsh, determined to prove that the myths and stories about a cross were true, set about looking for it. And would you believe that he found it, after all that time, in the Glebe Field near the village, safely buried deep under the sod. The cross was then repaired and erected in the south-east corner of the graveyard of the old St. Canice's Church adjacent to St. Canice's Square apartment complex where it stands today.



Remains of 10th century woman found

An extremely rare brooch has been discovered along with the remains of a 10th century woman, aged between 25 and 35, during an archaeological excavation at a site near Finglas in north Dublin. (St Canice's Square)
The large, bronze, silver and gold oval brooch has been described by Dr Pat Wallace, director of the National Museum of Ireland, as "very, very rare". He said it was "the best example of its type we have in Ireland to date". It is the first find of such a brooch in Ireland since 1902. "We are very, very fortunate to have found it," said Dr Wallace. Also found in what the National Museum is describing as a "significant burial" were a long bone comb, a bracelet, ring and other copper alloy instruments. The brooch, measuring about five centimetres by eight centimetres has been corroded and is almost totally covered in green copper oxide. Having been partially cleaned, however, silver and gold gilding could be discerned and, according to archaeological staff, it would have been "very brilliant, very dazzling and in your face", when worn by the woman. Small moulded animal heads also protrude from the surface. The style is Scandinavian and there is no doubt that it was moulded in Scandinavia, said Dr Wallace. The woman's death is dated at about AD 950. The question is whether she was herself Scandinavian or an Irish woman "who meant a lot to a Scandinavian man", said Dr Wallace.

Specialists who investigate bone fragments are currently working on the remains on-site in Finglas before they are removed to the National Museum in Kildare Street. The brooch and the other artefacts will be displayed with the woman's remains in the museum "in and around St Patrick's Day we hope", said Dr Wallace. The brooch will be restored, as far as possible, to its original brilliance. The discovery was made by archaeologist and site director Mr John Kavanagh last Monday at the site in Patrick's Well, close to a medieval church. "I noticed a skull sticking out of the ground," he said, and he and his colleagues began to painstakingly clear the earth from the woman's skeletal remains throughout last Monday afternoon and Tuesday. "On Wednesday we saw the brooch." He said that although he had been involved in the uncovering of hundreds of skeletal remains in his career, this, combined with the rare brooch "was the best of the best". Dr Wallace said he was "astounded and delighted the minute I saw it [the brooch\]".

The excavation is taking place at the site of a planned apartment block. Excavations are required under planning regulations before building can begin. The woman's skeleton was intact apart from her feet which were removed when pipes were lain in the area. The closing ditch of a monastery, a number of wells and the defensive ramparts and ditch of the townland of Finglas have also been found. The Vikings were already well established in Dublin by this stage, said Dr Wallace. Dublin had a population of about 3,000 then. He said he was pleased at the greater awareness among the public of the importance of archaeology and preserving artefacts. "I do have some concerns that those in local authorities and councils are not as concerned as they should be, however," he added.

Taken from The 'Irish Times'

I wonder if any Indy media readers would take up the fact that this significant historic location has been given planning permission by Dublin City Council to develop another private apartment complex. Finglas is one of the oldest villages in Dublin and this site is located in the heart of the old village beside the site of a Celtic abbey. The name Finglas (Fion-glaiss), meaning a clear streamlet, is derived from the rivulet, which flows through the village and joins the Tolka at Finglas-bridge.

Finglas first appeared in history as the site of a Celtic abbey, the origin of which has been associated, from early times, with the name of St. Cainnech, or Canice, the patron of Kilkenny. According to an ancient legend, the ground on which it stood had been sanctified by St. Patrick, who is said to have uttered from it a prophecy that a great town would arise at the ford of hurdles in the vale beneath. Since then, Finglas has continued to have an interesting history spanning Celtic times, the Anglo-Norman invasion, Tudor and Stuart times, the Rebellion, the Restoration, the Revolution, the Union till the present day.



Finglas wasn't always a sleepy little village. Would you believe it was once a well-established and notorious Pagan party town of great fame? Interestingly, St. Patrick stopped here first before launching himself on the rest of the country. Probably just for research purposes. Get his bearings, no doubt. He hung around for a while all the same. Probably peacefully contemplating the Pagan mentality. Where better to do such work than in the island most notorious party zone. Anyway, he established an abbey before moving on.

Below is the historical record/travelogue. I enjoyed the delicate turns of phrase that still manage to tell you all you might need to know

>About three miles from town, on the Ashbourne road is the far famed village of Finglas. There are few who have not heard of it, being equally celebrated for its "May sports" - its *** races, its pigs, with their tails shaved, and a host of other amusements - as for having been, from time to time, the theatre of some important, scenes in Irish history.

Indeed, there are few villages in Ireland can lay claim to much greater antiquity than the village of Finglas. It is supposed by many to have been a place of some notoriety even before Christianity was introduced, from the May sports instituted to celebrate the Spring, or, perhaps, in honour of Ceres, the goddess of grain and husbandry.

[The famous Finglas Maypole was once a permanent fixture until it was replaced in the place where the memorial to McKee of 1916 Rising now stands]

... Finglas existed long before Christianity in this country [and] in the first years of the Christian era Saint Patrick resided in this town. He also founded an abbey here, [Indicating] that Finglas was a place of some note, and consequently of some age, to induce him to go to so much expense at that early period.

Degsy

Here's an interesting pic..not sure of the year though

Rashers

Approaching Finglas village, I'm not sure of the year though... probably in the '60s. (Degsy I think yours is the '40s... there used to be an airfield nearby called Kildonan)

Nevyn

There is still a big green strech were the air strip used to be beside kildoan road.
Finglas has a lot of history to the place.
Once thing I never got as much info about as I would have liked was the river which which had the road built over it.

Rashers

Great potted history of Finglas PFB. Thank you for sharing.

The whole story was interesting from start to end, but I have to say that the bit about the man who may have been beaten to death with his own wooden leg appealed to my quirky sense of humour.

Thanks again.

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Degsy wrote: »

Here's an interesting pic..not sure of the year though

Can you give some context to that picture?

What is where on it now.

Also.

You know the School on St Helena's Rd, there seems to be some kind of Old House attached to it.

Any idea what it is?

It's around the area I've marked with an X in this picture.

Rashers

Thaedydal wrote: »

There is still a big green strech were the air strip used to be beside kildoan road.

I know I have a photo of that air strip. I'll have a good search and if I dig it out I'll upload it.

Slow Motion

There was a CE scheme set up a few years back called the Finglas Folklore Project, don't know if they ever produced anything though, will have a look!

Nevyn

Des, that is st helena's house, the road is named after it.
Various youth projected and CE schemes run out of the house and it is used for clubs and
the finglas youth concert band. The next building over on the green is the finglas south scout unit hall where the A marker is.

Degsy

Des wrote: »

Can you give some context to that picture?

What is where on it now.

Des,
The church on the right is still there,the pic was taken not long after it was built.The small cottages at the end of my road(barrack lane)are visible in the middle left of the pic.
Below them is(i think) the Spanish Convent with Farnham House(lunatic asylum) above it.
The large house on the left above barracks lane is (again i think)Springmount House,originally the site of a medieval manor and later a grand house.
There's a mention of Springmount here:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]FINGLAS, a parish, partly in the barony of NETHERCROSS, and partly in that of COOLOCK, county of DUBLIN, and province of LEINSTER, 3 miles (N.) from Dublin Castle, on the mail coach road to Ashbourne, and on a small stream which falls into the river Tolka at Finglas bridge; containing 2110 inhabitants, of which number, 840 are in the village. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]In the reign of Hen. II., Strongbow, aided by Milo de Cogan and Raymond le Gros, with 500 men, routed the Irish army consisting of several thousands, and nearly took King O'Conor prisoner. On June 18th, 1649, the Marquess of Ormonde, with the royal army, encamped here, previous to the fatal action of Rathmines; and on July 5th, 1690, King William, after the victory of the Boyne, here took up a position and mustered his army, amounting to more than thirty thousand effective men; and hence a detachment, under the Duke of Ormonde, marched to take possession of Dublin. The manor was long vested in the Archbishop of Dublin: Fulk de Saundford, one of the prelates of this see, died here in 1271, and Archbishop Fitz.Simon, also, in 1511. The parish comprises 4663 statute acres, chiefly pasture: there are good quarries of limestone and stone for building. The Royal Canal passes through the townlands of Ballybogan and Cabra.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]An extensive cotton mill was here burnt down in 1828, the ruins of which remain. A large tannery has existed at Finglas Wood for nearly two centuries, and is still carried on by J. Savage, Esq., one of the same family as the original proprietor: the residence is very ancient, and it is reported that Jas. II. slept one night there. By the 4th of Geo. I. a grant was made to the Archbishop of Dublin of markets on Tuesdays and Saturdays, fairs on April 25th and Sept. 29th, and a court of pie-poudre during the markets, by paying 6s.8d. per ann. to the Crown. A noted pleasure fair is held here on the 1st of May. This is a station for the city of Dublin police; and in the vicinity are three private lunatic asylums. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The seats are Jamestown, the residence of Mrs. Shew; Tolka Lodge, of J. W. Bayley, Esq.; Kilrisk, of J. Green, Esq.; Newtown, of Barnett Shew; Esq.; Belle Vue, of W. Gregory, Esq.; Farnham House, of J. Duncan, Esq.; St. Helena's of W. Harty, Esq., M. D., Drogheda Lodge, of M. Farrell, Esq.; Ashfield, of Capt. Bluett, R. N.; Springmount, of C. White, Esq.; Elms, of John T. Logan, Esq., M. D.; St. Margaret's, of Mrs. Stock; Cabra House, of J. Plunkett, Esq.; Riversdale, of C. Stewart, Esq.; Rose Hill, of N. Doyle, Esq.; Tolka Park, of J. Newman, Esq.; Tolka View, of the Rev. Dr. Ledlie; Rosemount, of Capt. Walsh, Little Jamestown, of Edw. Mangan, Esq.; Rosemount, of M, Rooney, Esq.; and Cardiffe Bridge, of J. Newman, Esq. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The living is a vicarage, in the diocese of Dublin, united to the curacy of Ballycoolane, and in the patronage of the Archbishop: the rectory, with the curacy of St. Werburgh's, Dublin, and the chapelries of St. Margaret's, Artaine, and the Ward, constitutes the corps of the chancellor ship of St. Patrick's cathedral, Dublin. The tithes amount to £740. 5 shillings 10 pence, of which £462. 2 shillings 5 pence, is payable to the chancellor, and the remainder to the vicar. The glebe-house was erected, in 1826, by aid of a gift of £550, and a loan of £450, from the late Board of First Fruits, there is a glebe of 16 acres of profitable land, divided into three portions, two of which are at a great distance from the parsonage. The church, - a plain substantial building, stands on the site of an abbey said to have been founded by St. Canice, or, as some think by St. Patrick, the former having been the first abbot: several of the early saints were interred here, and there are monuments to members of the families of Flower and Bridges, and one to Dr. Chaloner Cobbe, an eminent divine. This place gives name to a rural deanery, extending over Finglas and its chapelries, Castleknock, Clonsillagh, Chapelizod, Glasnevin, Coolock, Raheny, Clontarf, and Clonturk, or Drumcondra. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]In the Roman Catholic divisions the parish is the head of a union or district, comprising Finglas, St. Margaret's, the Ward, Killeek, and Chapel-Midway, in which are two chapels, in Finglas and at St. Margaret's. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The parochial schools are aided by the chancellor of St. Patrick's and the vicar; an infants' school was established in 1835; and there are two national schools, and a dispensary. Lands producing about £41 per ann., of which £32 are expended on the schools, have been left in trust to the vicar and churchwardens for the benefit of the poor and for other pious purposes. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Here are two strong ramparts, one of which, at the rear of the glebe-house, is called King William's rampart. In the grounds of J. Savage, Esq., coins of the reigns of Jas. II. and Wm. and Mary have been found. Here is a well, dedicated to St. Patrick, slightly chalybeate, and once much celebrated: and there is an ancient cross in the churchyard. The vicarage was held for the few later years of his life by Dr. T, Parnell, the intimate associate of Swift, Addison, Pope, and other distinguished literary characters.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

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Thanks Degsy.

For making my eyes bleed

Nevyn

I still find the spanish convent being gone really werid and the apartments at the back of the jolly toper.

Degsy

Here's a pic of whats now the end of wellmount road with the graveyard on the right

Degsy

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It says Bona Fide on the side of the Royal Oak.

afaik, this meant it was outside the City Limits and didn't need to close for the Holy Hour during the week.

In Coolock Village there are two pubs virtually next door, Kyles and The Sheaf O' Wheat.

Apparently, The Sheaf was Bona Fide, Kyles wasn't.

The Sheaf, being the nearest Bona Fide pub in that direction from the city did a roaring trade.

Degsy

Des wrote: »

It says Bona Fide on the side of the Royal Oak.

afaik, this meant it was outside the City Limits and didn't need to close for the Holy Hour during the week.

In Coolock Village there are two pubs virtually next door, Kyles and The Sheaf O' Wheat.

Apparently, The Sheaf was Bona Fide, Kyles wasn't.

The Sheaf, being the nearest Bona Fide pub in that direction from the city did a roaring trade.

The swiss cottage in santry was one too..it would be jammed to the rafters with people from the inner city who'd make thier way out by any means possible,tram,car or foot.
I think teh bona fide act meant pubs stayed open later as well but i'm open to correction.

Rashers

Degsy wrote: »

I think teh bona fide act meant pubs stayed open later as well but i'm open to correction.

To the best of my knowledge you're on the right track Degsy.

AFAIK publicans/innkeepers outside of the city were in fact required by law to open at any time of night to serve refreshments to any bona fida traveller. But of course the law was used by people who just wanted a late night drink.

Nevyn

If you were outside the city limits the idea being a traveler could lodge there at any time and then continue thier journey rested the next day into the city proper.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Thaedydal wrote: »

If you were outside the city limits the idea being a traveler could lodge there at any time and then continue thier journey rested the next day into the city proper.

We'd a few travellers in Campions tonight, but they left early :P

trout

Mairt wrote: »

We'd a few travellers in Campions tonight, but they left early :P

I'll be in Campion's on Sunday night ... might see you for a quick pint.

back on topic ... I'm showing this thread to a friend of mine who now lives in Finglas ... he's loving it.

arybvtcw0eolkf

trout wrote: »

I'll be in Campion's on Sunday night ... might see you for a quick pint.

back on topic ... I'm showing this thread to a friend of mine who now lives in Finglas ... he's loving it.

I'm usually there for the last ten hours on Sunday!.

_blank_

You pair of bollixes.

As soon as I move out of the place, yiz start going down for pints.

:mad:

Degsy

Des wrote: »

You pair of bollixes.

As soon as I move out of the place, yiz start going down for pints.

:mad:

Champagne actually;)

John Mason

Here is a really interesting link to the recent excavtions done in Finglas (courtsey of Degsy)

http://www.excavations.ie/Pages/Search.php?year=&county=&site_no=&site_name=finglas&site_type=&report_text=&author=&grid_ref=&smr_no=&excavation_license_no=&Submit=Do+Search

John Mason

Des wrote: »

You pair of bollixes.

As soon as I move out of the place, yiz start going down for pints.

:mad:

Personal abuse is not allowed on this forum

Please read the charter

thank you

Nevyn

Back seat modding is not allowed on this for.........

Shíte

/goes and reports a heap of posts including this one.

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Heh, don't make the same mistake as last time Thaed :pac:

Anyway, back on topic....Finglas, yes, great place, great people (apart from Degsy)

John Mason

Here is the link to the history of Kildonan Airstrip

http://www.chaptersofdublin.com/books/General/kildonan.htm

joolsveer

I believe the Craigie family lived in Saint Helena's. They owned Merville Dairies (later Premier Dairies now blocks of flats on both sites) and were associated with the Zoo too.

I see the Duck Inn opposite the Drake Inn and the old post office at the top of the hill. Great snaps.

Just found this Merville/Craigie link. http://www.flickr.com/photos/finglas_historical_society/sets/72157604306833502/

ajc100

Great post.

My grandfather used to shod the horses for Merville, and all our family have worked there at some stage down through the years.

The fields at the back of the dairy's was known as "The Backers", now home to Fairways Estate, was rumored to be haunted by two banshees said to be a pair of nuns that died in a carriage accident on a bridge across the stream up there, millions of years ago.
Anytime we went up as kids, especially at night, someone would hear or see something and frighten the bejasus out of everyone.

The pics are from well before my time, but great to see.

Can some one explain exactly where the air field was, that was a new one to me.

Degsy

Some pics
Merville Horse

Farnham House

farnham House gate lodge(still there)


Spanish sister's Convent

Gumbo

Degsy wrote: »

Spanish sister's Convent

thanks, i moved from finglas west into the houses in the convent in 1997!

nice pic, cant wait to show my ma and da

joewicklow

Great Thread lads, I was born and reared on Wellmount Road. My parents still live there!

yoshytoshy

The pubs like the royal oak were known as coach houses ,so I was told anyways.

Great photos and posts ,
Cheers:)

Degsy

joewicklow wrote: »

Great Thread lads, I was born and reared on Wellmount Road. My parents still live there!

A good road..
It used to be called Springmount road after Springmount HOuse that was in the area.
I've been trying to get a pic or more info on it so ask your folks do they know anything.
I'll drop them in some cake

jazoo

cool thread im from finglas my parents moved there in the late forties still have lots of family there. Any more photos?

Jackeenboy

Isnt this place the Essex of Dublin??

merrionsq

Good post. Looking at those quaint old photos, those country village folk must have been in for some shock when they were surrounded by one of the largest block of social housing in Dublin! Mostly inner city residents if my info is correct. I reckon there was no "public consultation process" back then!

Degsy

De Velera unveils the Dick Mckee memorial 1951


Glebe House

Old village scene

Church St before the dual carraigeway


Gofton Hall,formerly Eagle Lodge where the bank of ireland is now



Mary Feegans shope,now the main centre car park

Poccington

It's quite nice looking at photo's of how Finglas was, compared to what it has become.

It was a lovely place to be raised in though.

ebairead

You know the School on St Helena's Rd, there seems to be some kind of Old House attached to it.

Any idea what it is?

It's around the area I've marked with an X in this picture.

Degsy

ebairead wrote: »

You know the School on St Helena's Rd, there seems to be some kind of Old House attached to it.

Any idea what it is?

It's around the area I've marked with an X in this picture.

Its now st helena's family resource centre and some scumbags burnt down the gatelodge last week.
Dirty little pricks.

Rashers

ebairead wrote: »

You know the School on St Helena's Rd, there seems to be some kind of Old House attached to it.

Any idea what it is?

It's around the area I've marked with an X in this picture.

I didn't see a picture.

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Rashers wrote: »

I didn't see a picture.

That's because that poster copied and pasted a post of mine form earlier in the thread, word for word, and didn't include the picture, for some reason.

****************************

Degsy.

That river/stream behind the house I live in.

What's the name of it?

Doublin

Some great pic's there, I'll have to show them to the grandfather.. He'll probably be able to name the people in the pictures..

Can't wait til I move back to Finglas in the next couple of weeks, catch up with all the old gang. Pity the Drake isn't open anymore. Never really drank in the Bottom of the Hill, & have bad memories of the Jolly. What's the best pub around now?

January

I've heard Riordans (Drogehda Lodge...) or the Shamrock... (I know my OH's mam goes to the Shamrock...)... there's also the bar in the Ardmore Hotel... I've been a few times, very quiet... Which part are you moving to?

Doublin

A house share on McKee Avenue, so pretty much in the heart of the village. Heard good things about the Deputy Mayor once you avoid the samurai swords

Dirk Gently

sorry to dig up an old thread, it actually popped up in a google search. I was wondering if anyone had any links relating to pre-christian Finglas. I see the OP mentions a bit about it and I remember reading about it before but not having much luck online.

DTRL

Hi, I'm looking to find out if anyone can remember a programme/documentary about Finglas that was shown on RTE1 back in late 1980s (I am guessing around 1987/1988). I really havent much to go on and have even tried RTE but they cant find it in their library but I am positive about it and definitely remember it. It was only on for about 25 minutes and all I can remember is that it was shown after the 6pm news and showed all different areas of Finglas with commentary. There is a book that I have called Finglas, Through The Ages and I'm nearly sure the programme was called something like this aswell. Its a long shot but if anyone can help or direct me in the right direction, it would be really appreciated.

John Mason

there is an archaeology dig starting in the next few weeks at the river road side of tolka valley. i wonder will it throw anything interesting

January

Ohh interesting, where did you find that out?