Rules on 3 lane highway (m7/n7)

landcruiserfj62

Where the m7 (2 lane motorway) meets the n7 (3 lane) at Naas..shouldnt all vehicles eventually try to merge into the left most lane? Vehicles joining at Naas alot of the time will at the first possible moment indicate and drive into the middle lane!! Even tho theres no car in front of them to overtake!

Its actually becoming dangerous to stay in the left lane. The mergers at the next couple of junctions are very short, and its sometimes impossible to pull into the middle to allow them to merge due to the line of middle lane hoggers?

Basicaly could someone tell me if im correct?? or should i join the rest of the middle lane hoggers??

thanks

L1011

You are correct, 95% of other drivers are wrong. All vehicles should keep left - the extra lane is on the outside not the inside.

landcruiserfj62

MYOB wrote: »

You are correct, 95% of other drivers are wrong. All vehicles should keep left - the extra lane is on the outside not the inside.

thanks MYOB, I was begining to think i was out of touch with the rules of the road from observing the etiquete (poor spelling!) on that stretch there. Irish drivers break my heart lol
(im irish too btw!)

rccaulfield

If theres heavy traffic all bets are off for inner 2 lanes-but with the normal flow yep-keep left! Nobody does tho-so u end up either undertakin or havin to jump over 2 lanes to overtake then back in 2??

Mr. Pseudonym

I was under the impression that the left lane was for motorists joining and leaving the N7, the middle lane was for "normal" driving, and the outer or right lane was for overtaking.

drunkmonkey

landcruiserfj62 wrote: »

I was begining to think i was out of touch with the rules of the road

I honestly feel the same, I drive that road regularly and feel guilty for being the only one driving in the inside lane it's kinda lonely in there.....what is it with middle lane drivers they are dangerous, you either have to undertake them or jump 2 lanes of traffic to overtake them... worse than speeding in my eyes...

drunkmonkey

Mr. Pseudonym wrote: »

I was under the impression that the left lane was for motorists joining and leaving the N7, the middle lane was for "normal" driving, and the outer or right lane was for overtaking.

Where did you get that idea out of....?

There is 3 lanes, if the lane to your inside is empty you should be in it, not sitting in the middle lane..

L1011

Mr. Pseudonym wrote: »

I was under the impression that the left lane was for motorists joining and leaving the N7, the middle lane was for "normal" driving, and the outer or right lane was for overtaking.

Well, your impression is entirely wrong.

The inside lane is for 'normal driving' and there are two overtaking lanes.

fletch

Mr. Pseudonym wrote: »

I was under the impression that the left lane was for motorists joining and leaving the N7, the middle lane was for "normal" driving, and the outer or right lane was for overtaking.

I give up! :mad:

AugustusMaximus

The worst thing about middle lane morons is that they are essentially reducing the capacity of a 3 lane road down to that of a 2 lane road.

Authorities need to be far more vocal in the rules of the road in regards to 3 lane + motorways.

drunkmonkey

Drivers really need education on this, they should have some kind of sign saying to drive in the left lane...

who's wrong the guy driving in the middle lane or the guy undertaking him on the inside lane...

Guy:Incognito

drunkmonkey wrote: »

who's wrong the guy driving in the middle lane or the guy undertaking him on the inside lane...

If the guy in the inside lane is at or under the speed limit then the guy in the middle lane is.

If someone can undertrake you in any situation without breakign the speed limit then how can you be in the right?

bonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

who's wrong the guy driving in the middle lane or the guy undertaking him on the inside lane...

Dunno about Ireland, but here in Switzerland, so-called "undertaking" is legal if you're keeping pace with the traffic in your lane (or driving the limit if there is no other traffic) and the overtaking lane traffic is travelling at a slower pace.

So, here at least, if someone is sitting in the middle lane on an otherwise empty m'way, and doing (say) 115, I'm perfectly entitled to go past him on the inside lane doing 120.

AugustusMaximus

bonkey wrote: »

Dunno about Ireland, but here in Switzerland, so-called "undertaking" is legal if you're keeping pace with the traffic in your lane (or driving the limit if there is no other traffic) and the overtaking lane traffic is travelling at a slower pace.

So, here at least, if someone is sitting in the middle lane on an otherwise empty m'way, and doing (say) 115, I'm perfectly entitled to go past him on the inside lane doing 120.

I have no problem with the notion of undertaking (more so if the person in the overtaking lane is aware that a person might undertake him) but it should never be necessary in the first place as the person in the overtaking lane or a mlm shouldn't be there in the first place.

The notion of overtaking lanes progressing towards the centre of the road and the ban on undertaking is to try to reduce the need to weave in and out of traffic to overtake slower moving vehicles.

.Longshanks.

MYOB wrote: »

You are correct, 95% of other drivers are wrong. All vehicles should keep left - the extra lane is on the outside not the inside.

Totally agreed about 95% of people being in the wrong, however in this particular instance if you are in the outside land of the M7 going North [lets call it lane 2 of 2] and you then join the N7 at Naas you will be in outermost lane [lane 3 of 3]. The extra lane is actually on the inside.
The OP is right thou, all vehicles should eventually try to merge into the left most lane

colm_mcm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

who's wrong the guy driving in the middle lane or the guy undertaking him on the inside lane...

The guy that wants to overtake should flash his lights, slow driver moves out of the way into inside lane, he's not in the way of the rest of the traffic now. problem solved.

L1011

Longshanks100 wrote: »

Totally agreed about 95% of people being in the wrong, however in this particular instance if you are in the outside land of the M7 going North [lets call it lane 2 of 2] and you then join the N7 at Naas you will be in outermost lane [lane 3 of 3]. The extra lane is actually on the inside.
The OP is right thou, all vehicles should eventually try to merge into the left most lane

The extra lane appears on the inside as a lane gain; as every lane gain anywhere in the country does. This is how it works. The fact that its a lane gain doesn't mean it was added to the inside, the extra lane is an extra outside lane.

Additionally, thats only at Junction 9 anyway. If you come on at any junction outbound or J8->2 inbound its already there.

drunkmonkey

colm_mcm wrote: »

The guy that wants to overtake should flash his lights, slow driver moves out of the way into inside lane, he's not in the way of the rest of the traffic now. problem solved.

I tried that with a Garda recently (his uniform was hanging on the back window), he gave me the finger and hand shuffle sign a few times... he honestly didn't know he was causing a problem and was quite rude about it...

landcruiserfj62

colm_mcm wrote: »

The guy that wants to overtake should flash his lights, slow driver moves out of the way into inside lane, he's not in the way of the rest of the traffic now. problem solved.

The problem with this is that the driver being flashed is unlikely to notice somebody flashing at them from the inner lane, and even if they do notice i doubt they will understand what the problem is....

maybe we just suck at driving here :rolleyes:

L1011

landcruiserfj62 wrote: »

maybe we just suck at driving here :rolleyes:

We're not as bad as many on here makes us out to be in comparison to other EU countries.

For example the Dutch are insane drivers; but its insanity without any aggression. Driving from the border with Belgium to Utrecht (around Ghent, Breda) there was much madcap overtaking, dodgy merging, weaving and the like going on but I didn't see one incident of tailgating, headlights getting flashed (except by an Irish registered truck to me when he saw my plate!) or someone getting beeped.

Back home we have the poor driving and the aggression... and standard Irish begrudgery - which is probably where a lot of the middle lane moron problems come from, "ah sure I'm grand at this speed, why would anyone want to go faster".

On a side note, Belgium's road network makes ours look well maintained!

landcruiserfj62

MYOB wrote: »

Back home we have the poor driving and the aggression... and standard Irish begrudgery - which is probably where a lot of the middle lane moron problems come from, "ah sure I'm grand at this speed, why would anyone want to go faster".

On a side note, Belgium's road network makes ours look well maintained!

Yeah, there is a very aggressive element on our roads i feel. And to the other poster who mentioned the Garda in plain clothes on the middle lane, I have frequently seen the Gardai cruise along the middel lane on this stretch of N7, you could of course argue that they had a reason other than not knowing the rules of the road but i personaly doubt that. The "Nouveau Rich" irish and their 3 lane highways ehhh???!!!

imeddyhobbs

Cant we overtake/undertake in all motorway lanes here in Ireland?

20goto10

bonkey wrote: »

Dunno about Ireland, but here in Switzerland, so-called "undertaking" is legal if you're keeping pace with the traffic in your lane (or driving the limit if there is no other traffic) and the overtaking lane traffic is travelling at a slower pace.

This is true for Ireland as well. But for me, I'll undertake any eejit hogging the middle lane no matter what the situation. There's just far too many of them and I'm not going to dart across 2 lanes and back again to over take them every time.

LarWright

imeddyhobbs wrote: »

Cant we overtake/undertake in all motorway lanes here in Ireland?

:rolleyes: NO!

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/on-the-motorway.html

"You must normally drive in the left-hand lane of a dual carriageway. You may use the outer lane of a two-lane or three-lane dual carriageway only: for overtaking, and when intending to turn right a short distance ahead."

"Overtake only on the right, unless traffic is travelling in slow moving queues and the traffic queue on your right is travelling more slowly than you are. If you intend to move from a slower lane to a faster lane, adjust your speed first."

TwoShedsJackson

This is one thing I really noticed on three lane motorways in the UK - people keep left and move into the middle lane to overtake, then, amazingly, move back in again!!

Driving from Exeter to Bristol the third lane of the motorway was empty for 80% of the time as far as I could see, despite it being 4 in the afternoon and pretty busy.

Cookie_Monster

imeddyhobbs wrote: »

Cant we overtake/undertake in all motorway lanes here in Ireland?

Anan1

imeddyhobbs wrote: »

Cant we overtake/undertake in all motorway lanes here in Ireland?

Lads, I think this was a joke!

Cookie_Monster

Anan1 wrote: »

Lads, I think this was a joke!

Still; the captain does not approve


:pac:

Zube

20goto10 wrote: »

This is true for Ireland as well.

No, it isn't.

I pass people on the left myself from time to time, but it's illegal in Ireland.

20goto10

Zube wrote: »

but it's illegal in Ireland.

It's not outright illegal. As pointed out above. "Overtake only on the right, unless traffic is travelling in slow moving queues and the traffic queue on your right is travelling more slowly than you are."

It's very loosely defined and can fit a lot of scenarios, but clearly not all scenarios.

Zube

20goto10 wrote: »

It's very loosely defined and can fit a lot of scenarios, but clearly not all scenarios.

Not these ones, for instance:

in Switzerland, so-called "undertaking" is legal if you're keeping pace with the traffic in your lane (or driving the limit if there is no other traffic) and the overtaking lane traffic is travelling at a slower pace.

Which is what you quoted when you said "This is true for Ireland as well". There is no possible way someone driving at the limit will be regarded as "slow moving traffic" in Ireland.

20goto10

Zube wrote: »

Not these ones, for instance:



Which is what you quoted when you said "This is true for Ireland as well". There is no possible way someone driving at the limit will be regarded as "slow moving traffic" in Ireland.

OK sorry I didn't quite get what he meant by "or driving the limit if there is no other traffic" so I ignored it. The rest of the statement is true in Ireland.

Guy:Incognito

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

This is one thing I really noticed on three lane motorways in the UK - people keep left and move into the middle lane to overtake, then, amazingly, move back in again!!
.

Funny. I noticed huge amounts of middle lane hoggers in any parts of the UK I've driven.

Zube wrote: »

Which is what you quoted when you said "This is true for Ireland as well". There is no possible way someone driving at the limit will be regarded as "slow moving traffic" in Ireland.

The problem is people are regularly drivign well under the limit. I can comfortably pass 10-20 cars without leaving the driving lane or going over the speed limit on my way to football on the M50 on a Sat between Tallaght and Liffey Valley.

L1011

Stekelly wrote: »

Funny. I noticed huge amounts of middle lane hoggers in any parts of the UK I've driven.

They exist, and I've seen them in Holland, Belgium and France now too. But nowhere near the level we've got in Ireland.

Thoie

So, what's the rule on the M50 southbound between Tallaght and Firhouse (Junctions 11 and 12)?

The inmost lane there starts as the onramp from Tallaght, and finishes as the offramp to Firhouse.

If you're starting at junction 10, you'll come down the ramp, merge right to the left hand lane. You're going on to junction 13. So, after you pass junction 11, do you merge left, stay there, and then move right as you approach junction 12 to continue straight on? Or are you supposed to do what most people do, which is stick to the middle lane for that section? The total stretch is about 1km.

P.C.

Thoie wrote: »

So, what's the rule on the M50 southbound between Tallaght and Firhouse (Junctions 11 and 12)?

The inmost lane there starts as the onramp from Tallaght, and finishes as the offramp to Firhouse.

If you're starting at junction 10, you'll come down the ramp, merge right to the left hand lane. You're going on to junction 13. So, after you pass junction 11, do you merge left, stay there, and then move right as you approach junction 12 to continue straight on? Or are you supposed to do what most people do, which is stick to the middle lane for that section? The total stretch is about 1km.

Next time you are on this section of the M50 - read the sign posts.

I think you will find it is pretty self explanitory.

20goto10

Thoie wrote: »

The inmost lane there starts as the onramp from Tallaght, and finishes as the offramp to Firhouse.

M50 lanes

Thats lane 4, or interchange lane. It's simply a long on/off ramp. It does not count when applying undertaking rules, hence the thick broken white line to seperate it from the motorway proper.

Thoie

P.C. wrote: »

Next time you are on this section of the M50 - read the sign posts.

I think you will find it is pretty self explanitory.

I did, thanks. It isn't.

While I agree with 20goto10's reading of the situation, and I think that's what most normal people would do, the fact is that for the first 700m (approx) the dashed white lines are not the normal kind seen for interchange lines, and appear pretty much the same as the normal interlane lines. About 300m before exit 12 there's a sign telling you left to Firhouse, straight on to other places.

The only other signage on that stretch is currently an orange roadworks sign informing you that there's site access ahead on the right.

P.C.

Thoie wrote: »

I did, thanks. It isn't.

While I agree with 20goto10's reading of the situation, and I think that's what most normal people would do, the fact is that for the first 700m (approx) the dashed white lines are not the normal kind seen for interchange lines, and appear pretty much the same as the normal interlane lines. About 300m before exit 12 there's a sign telling you left to Firhouse, straight on to other places.

The only other signage on that stretch is currently an orange roadworks sign informing you that there's site access ahead on the right.

I drove that way today, but as I was alone I could not take a pic of the road sign.

The road sign is a bit obscured by trees/bushes, but it is there.
It shows that the the left lane is an on/off ramp, and the two right hand lanes are the M50.

It is the same as the section from the N7 to the Cookstown exit.
I know that this section has new and better overhead signs, but when you look at them you will see that it says the M50 is still only three lanes, and not four. The on ramp that 'joins' the M50 from the N7 does not actually make up part of the M50, and is signposted accordingly.

Hopefully they will put up new and better signs between the Tallaght and Firhouse exits when they have finnished the upgrade work.