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Irish Air Corp to RAF

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    #32
    neilled
    Registered Users Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭neilled


    Irish Tempest wrote: »
    Hi,

    First post guys... be gentle.

    Wrt citzenship enquiry. Its something that is being actively looked at in senior circles about changing - no timecale.

    This was not something the British Government foisted upon the humble recruiters, but rather post 9/11 or 11/9 the yanks decided anyone that would have access to Secret Uk/US eyes only documents would have to be a true Brit passport member of society. Fine if you are born in NI.. not so if born in the ROI. However there are waivers dependant on whether you have any patronage from north of the border or across the water.

    In the Fleet Air Arm you will find plenty of pilots/ observers with Irish lilts but they got in before the rules changed. If you somehow become a naturalised citizen of the UK you should be ok.

    Rgds,

    IT:)

    IT, am I correct in thinking that this is related to the fact that most fastjets operated by the UK contain significant amounts of equipment that has source code/IP owned by the USA? I'm specifically thinking of the F-35 spat that happened a few years back and the arguments over operational sovereignty.


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    #33
    Irish Tempest
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭Irish Tempest


    Negative, when the draconian restriction came in the all branch managers within the services were asked which branches would be free from ever seeing anying US/UK S. The FAA & I suspect the RAF thought due the fact we operate hand in hand with the US in many ops...ooooh that special agreement we are privvy to their 'stuff' ie link material and therefore the restriction sits. The F35 is a good example, but i'm not sure if even folks in the UK mil will be allowed to see inside the black boxes or all will be returned to LM.

    IT


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    #34
    diverdriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 987 ✭✭✭diverdriver


    Are we to blame the Americans?

    That kind of confirms my suspicions that there might be flexibility. I doubt if you could join directly from Ireland but if you were living in the UK for a bit or were already in the military. I imagine it could be looked at favourably. Years ago there was a five year residency requirement for the RAF. When it was queried, this was reduced to one year with a nod and a wink that this was only in writing and actually it was a lot shorter than that for Irish applicants.


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    #35
    Leadership
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭Leadership


    Irish Tempest wrote: »

    This was not something the British Government foisted upon the humble recruiters, but rather post 9/11 or 11/9 the yanks decided anyone that would have access to Secret Uk/US eyes only documents would have to be a true Brit passport member of society.

    It dont think that is quite true. As an Irish citizen in the BA I could never get my DV or developed vetting (Top Secret and below). The only clearance I could get was SC or security cleared that only allowed restricted access to "secret" level documents and equipment.

    When I had dual nationality for opperational reasons my nationality did not change my clearance level as it searches your family tree and with no parents that were British I still could not get clearance.

    So in effect this system has been in place for long before 911.


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    #36
    Irish Tempest
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭Irish Tempest


    Leadership wrote: »
    It dont think that is quite true. As an Irish citizen in the BA I could never get my DV or developed vetting (Top Secret and below). The only clearance I could get was SC or security cleared that only allowed restricted access to "secret" level documents and equipment.

    When I had dual nationality for opperational reasons my nationality did not change my clearance level as it searches your family tree and with no parents that were British I still could not get clearance.

    So in effect this system has been in place for long before 911.

    Yes & no, there was a system in place befoe 9/11. But what changed was the number of branches that would have been open. Prior to 9/11 there was plenty of 'paddys' serving on Subs/Aircraft and other branches with little or no restriction except those that would have needed exceptional clearance - Comms Techs and the like. Now 90% of Officer branches have been closed and 50% of ratings entrants barred. In effect the ROI is being treated as any other commonwealth country. Wrong, believe you me it vexes me highly but the sad fact is as the UK uses so much US equipment on ships/sub and aircraft that any branch that would have the potetial access to this gear is restricted from entry. For example, you can enter as a Royal Marine from the ROI but not as a Royal Marine Officer - yet you can enter as a BA Officer... nuts!! The logic is because the RM operate in amphibious roles they might be in the ops room of a ship which does have american kit in it. One route for those who would want to be a Royal Marine Officer is to join as a recruit entrant and then go corps commission after they get naturalised.

    DV'd is TS and above, the BA recruits have a 'Basic' S/C check up to (but not including Secret). The full SC check that the RN requires means occassional access to secret. In order to get fully SC'd the vetting people would need to have 3 years visibilty of what you have been getting up to. That's fine in norn iron or the rest of the UK but no so for the ROI.


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    #37
    Irish Tempest
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭Irish Tempest


    diverdriver wrote: »
    Are we to blame the Americans?

    And yes I would blame the Americans as it was a knee jerk reaction post 9/11 like so many other things they got involved in AF/IQ. Its always a lot more difficult to back pedal!!

    IT


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    #38
    Irwinboy
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Irwinboy


    We not discussing security clearance here! This thread is about the irish air corp, RAF and army air corp!


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    #39
    OS119
    Registered Users Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭OS119


    Irwinboy wrote: »
    We not discussing security clearance here! This thread is about the irish air corp, RAF and army air corp!

    well, its quite a big issue...


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    #40
    Leadership
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭Leadership


    Irish Tempest wrote: »
    Yes & no, there was a system in place befoe 9/11. But what changed was the number of branches that would have been open. Prior to 9/11 there was plenty of 'paddys' serving on Subs/Aircraft and other branches with little or no restriction except those that would have needed exceptional clearance - Comms Techs and the like. Now 90% of Officer branches have been closed and 50% of ratings entrants barred. In effect the ROI is being treated as any other commonwealth country. Wrong, believe you me it vexes me highly but the sad fact is as the UK uses so much US equipment on ships/sub and aircraft that any branch that would have the potetial access to this gear is restricted from entry. For example, you can enter as a Royal Marine from the ROI but not as a Royal Marine Officer - yet you can enter as a BA Officer... nuts!! The logic is because the RM operate in amphibious roles they might be in the ops room of a ship which does have american kit in it. One route for those who would want to be a Royal Marine Officer is to join as a recruit entrant and then go corps commission after they get naturalised.

    DV'd is TS and above, the BA recruits have a 'Basic' S/C check up to (but not including Secret). The full SC check that the RN requires means occassional access to secret. In order to get fully SC'd the vetting people would need to have 3 years visibilty of what you have been getting up to. That's fine in norn iron or the rest of the UK but no so for the ROI.

    Thanks for the update, very interesting and very wrong.

    I must say when I was commissioned as a LE (late entry) officer I was told I would never get past the rank of Captain and to serve my two years to qualify for the pension and then leave as my "status"* would mean I would never go higher.

    BTW - I think security clearance is very valid for this thread.


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    #41
    Irish Tempest
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭Irish Tempest


    L'ship,

    With regard to the comment that you could not be promoted due to nationality 'status'... outrageous and probably tantemount to discrimination. I would say you have a case. The British Army act of 1966 states, 'that ROI citizens should be treated as equals'.

    I would get a good solicitor if I were you...

    IT:P


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    #42
    Duffers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 129 ✭✭Duffers


    Yeah but we all know that isn't true eh!!
    IT Welcome to the forums, sounds like you are a Matelot...but not a fish head??:P
    FAA methinks??


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    #43
    Irish Tempest
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭Irish Tempest


    Duffers wrote: »
    Yeah but we all know that isn't true eh!!
    IT Welcome to the forums, sounds like you are a Matelot...but not a fish head??:P
    FAA methinks??

    You choose wisely young skywalker... :cool:


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    #44
    ldxo15wus6fpgm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭ldxo15wus6fpgm


    Sorry to be dragging up an old thread!

    I was born in the UK and am a citizen. Never actually got the passport though, as I was entitled to an Irish one through parents, I've always had the Irish one.

    I've been thinking of applying to join the RAF as a pilot for years - I understand they're not taking anyone in at the moment but they will have to recruit a few in the next few years. I was in the Air Training Corps for a year while I lived there but then got moved to Ireland aged 13. I'm just about to graduate from college.

    On the RAF/RNavy FAA websites they both state there is not only a citizenship requirement but a residency requirement too, subject to waiver.
    Has anyone ever heard of this requirement being waived for people resident in ROI?

    Cheers


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    #45
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Leadership wrote: »
    It dont think that is quite true. As an Irish citizen in the BA I could never get my DV or developed vetting (Top Secret and below). The only clearance I could get was SC or security cleared that only allowed restricted access to "secret" level documents and equipment.

    When I had dual nationality for opperational reasons my nationality did not change my clearance level as it searches your family tree and with no parents that were British I still could not get clearance.

    So in effect this system has been in place for long before 911.

    Quite. Part of responsibilities in my last post, as the CI of a certain establishment, was to make certain that OUR green bums sat on the seats alongside the blue bums in a certain long-range ISTAR asset aircraft now in service.

    All of us are/were DV as part of our basic MOS.

    No DV?

    No chance.

    tac


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    #46
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Brantley Glamorous Windmill wrote: »
    Sorry to be dragging up an old thread!

    I was born in the UK and am a citizen. Never actually got the passport though, as I was entitled to an Irish one through parents, I've always had the Irish one.

    I've been thinking of applying to join the RAF as a pilot for years - I understand they're not taking anyone in at the moment but they will have to recruit a few in the next few years. I was in the Air Training Corps for a year while I lived there but then got moved to Ireland aged 13. I'm just about to graduate from college.

    On the RAF/RNavy FAA websites they both state there is not only a citizenship requirement but a residency requirement too, subject to waiver.
    Has anyone ever heard of this requirement being waived for people resident in ROI?

    Cheers

    Can you prove your UK citizenship? With back-up documentary evidence such as a 'registration of a live birth' et al?

    If so, then there might be a chance for you. If not, then the residency rules apply, although how they are interpreted these days seems to be a lottery.

    Loads of luck.

    tac

    PS - Sadly, your pre-13 y/o year in the ATC has absolutely no significance whatsoever.


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    #47
    discus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭discus


    It's funny, in the forces you get shot for admitting you were in the TA before going regular, but no-one admits to having been in the cadets...


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    #48
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    discus wrote: »
    It's funny, in the forces you get shot for admitting you were in the TA before going regular, but no-one admits to having been in the cadets...

    Well, that's true. But then, with appropriate training, the TA can and do serve alongside their regular brethren in Afghanistan - most medics are TA, and most medals for bravery under fire have been won by TA medics 'just doing their job'.

    However, it has to be said that however well-intentioned and/or desperate for recognition the Air Training Corps might be, they have yet to send 12-year-old child pilots into battle.

    The worse recruits to deal with, I was told, are the seventeen year-old Army Cadet Force 'sergeants', who seem to believe that all they are doing is changing a 'friday night fun-thing', for a 'seven-days-a-week and paid fun-thing'.

    tac


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    #49
    ldxo15wus6fpgm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭ldxo15wus6fpgm


    tac foley wrote: »
    However, it has to be said that however well-intentioned and/or desperate for recognition the Air Training Corps might be, they have yet to send 12-year-old child pilots into battle.

    The worse recruits to deal with, I was told, are the seventeen year-old Army Cadet Force 'sergeants', who seem to believe that all they are doing is changing a 'friday night fun-thing', for a 'seven-days-a-week and paid fun-thing'.

    tac

    They do a good amount of training though! I did training on a few rifles and narrowly missed my first glider session (got moved 2 weeks before it was scheduled - bummer to say the least)

    Yes I could prove citizenship, I was actually thinking of just getting the passport to make things easier. Might look a little better too! Thanks for the reply!


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    #50
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Brantley Glamorous Windmill wrote: »
    They do a good amount of training though! I did training on a few rifles and narrowly missed my first glider session (got moved 2 weeks before it was scheduled - bummer to say the least)

    Yes I could prove citizenship, I was actually thinking of just getting the passport to make things easier. Might look a little better too! Thanks for the reply!

    Hmmmm. Even so, the lack of residency aspect might rise up and kick you in the ***e.

    Basically, you ain't got none.:eek:

    Take MY case - I have an Irish passport and citizenship, courtesy of my ould da, but I've never lived there for more than two weeks at a time as a child, and for almost thirty years I was banned from even visiting the Republic, so I'd have a REALLY hard time proving any 'real Irishness' at all.

    You'll prolly have the same problem proving your UK-ishness, but I wish you luck in trying.

    tac


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