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Irish Air Corp to RAF

  • 04-03-2009 8:44pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13


    Does anybody know if the RAF recruit Air Corp pilots? I heard that they used to, but i was wondering do they still do it?:confused:


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭OS119


    certainly not directly, but more importantly the rules have changed somewhat - RoI citizens can no longer join the RAF as pilots/navigators, though as ground branch officers no problem (you can join the AAC as to be an AH-64/Lynx/defender pilot, and i've no idea about the RN, but they are all but out of the fast jet business)

    RoI citizens may be able to join as SNCO aircrew - loadmasters, and AWACS/Nimrod 'back office' crew.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 Irwinboy


    Do the Air Corp still train with the RAF?
    I watched a programme on TV where the Air Corp were in England training with them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    Irwinboy wrote: »
    Do the Air Corp still train with the RAF?
    I watched a programme on TV where the Air Corp were in England training with them.

    That is possible, I know a former PDF Sergeant who went on a Battle Sergeants course in Sandhurst. So I know there are some lads sent over. I don't know about Aer Corps - RAF though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 987 ✭✭✭diverdriver


    RoI citizens may be able to join as SNCO aircrew - loadmasters, and AWACS/Nimrod 'back office' crew.

    'Fraid not, all aircrew jobs have the same citizenship requirements as pilots. In fact, if anything the security issue is higher with some of the back office jobs in the AWACs and Nimrod aircraft particularly the R1 version of the Nimrod.

    I remember the Air Corps used to train alongside the SAR squadrons but the Air Corps don't do SAR anymore. First time I saw a Wessex helicopter it was in formation with an Alouette III. The big yellow bird looked huge alongside the little Alouette.

    The RAF has been known to take former pilots from other air forces. When the Aussies disbanded their naval wing some of their pilots ended up in the RAF. But they were already fast jet pilots. I could not see a former Cessna pilot from the Air Corps being a desirable catch for them.;)

    Despite the citizenship requirements. I have a suspicion that a couple of years exemplary service in some ground job might just open doors to a potential aircrew postion. The RAF are quite flexible in that way. It would be a huge gamble though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 Irwinboy


    On the RAf website it says that you can enlist and do most jobs apart from some which are high security...or something like that. Can Irish join the Army Air Corp in Britain as pilots?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    To be honest mate, you might get more definite answers on Arrse. They are dead on with this sort of thing!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 Irwinboy


    I'll have a look so!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭OS119


    To be honest mate, you might get more definite answers on Arrse. They are dead on with this sort of thing!

    very true - though of course they may ask why anyone wouuld want to join a service whose officers are called kevin and wear man-made fibres and grey slip-ons!

    Irwinboy: Yes, RoI citizens can join the AAC.

    its a very odd decision - the RAF has a number of joint RAF/Army operated platforms that are very much on the 'delicate' side of modern ISTAR operations, one supposes that in theory at least, the two services could have different citizenship/security requirements for two 'secret squirrels' sat alongside each other and doing the same job.

    who would of believed it: "RAF in 'arrse and elbow' shock"?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 Irwinboy


    I know this isnt the forum for this topic, but does anyone know the entry requirements into the army air corps if you had asthma when you were younger?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭Leadership


    Irwinboy wrote: »
    I know this isnt the forum for this topic, but does anyone know the entry requirements into the army air corps if you had asthma when you were younger?

    A general rule it is ok if you have not been treated in the past 4 years. It is much stricter for pilot entry though but it should be ok for ground crew.

    BTW - There are a number of routes to be a AAC pilot. If you go in through the ranks (serve as ground crew for a few years) or as a officer but often the easiest way is through another CORPS and apply to be a pilot.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,234 ✭✭✭neilled


    To be honest mate, you might get more definite answers on Arrse. They are dead on with this sort of thing!

    For the RAF E-Goat is what you need.
    its a very odd decision - the RAF has a number of joint RAF/Army operated platforms that are very much on the 'delicate' side of modern ISTAR operations, one supposes that in theory at least, the two services could have different citizenship/security requirements for two 'secret squirrels' sat alongside each other and doing the same job.

    who would of believed it: "RAF in 'arrse and elbow' shock"?

    Having said that, Fleet Air Arm is citizens only as well afaik.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 987 ✭✭✭diverdriver


    The British Army Air Corps is probably as tough to become a pilot in as getting into the Irish Air Corps. Given that you have to compete with everyone in the BA who fancies a go. They do take NCO and Warrant Officer pilots though which is a lot more than the IAC will ever do after what happened last time.

    Irwinboy, if you fancy a career as a military pilot your options are pretty limited. Basically the IAC which is akin to winning the lottery. If not the British version is possible but only just.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 Irwinboy


    What I was thinking of doing is applying for the IAC cadetship. If I dont get that I will apply to the British Army and try to join their Air Corp as an officer. If I dont get a position as an officer, I'll join as an Air Corp soldier and apply for the position as pilot when I make Corporal.

    Thats my future pretty much sumed up there!:cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    Irwinboy wrote: »
    What I was thinking of doing is applying for the IAC cadetship. If I dont get that I will apply to the British Army and try to join their Air Corp as an officer. If I dont get a position as an officer, I'll join as an Air Corp soldier and apply for the position as pilot when I make Corporal.

    Thats my future pretty much sumed up there!:cool:

    IAC are not recruiting for Cadetships this year, again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 Irwinboy


    I know there not, But I wont be applying for a year or 2!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,234 ✭✭✭neilled


    The British Army Air Corps is probably as tough to become a pilot in as getting into the Irish Air Corps. Given that you have to compete with everyone in the BA who fancies a go. They do take NCO and Warrant Officer pilots though which is a lot more than the IAC will ever do after what happened last time.

    Irwinboy, if you fancy a career as a military pilot your options are pretty limited. Basically the IAC which is akin to winning the lottery. If not the British version is possible but only just.

    The Army Air Corps has also gotten "sexier" recently with various Apache pilots publishing their accounts of flying around and blowing things to hell in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Regarding the aircorps

    in 2007 there were 5 cadetships awarded for the aircorps. Some 304 Applied with 89 making it to the first round interview and 35 in the final interview who were whittled down to the final 5. In 2006 there were somewhere around the 250 initial applications and 10 cadetships awarded.

    Gives you an idea of the odds involved.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,266 ✭✭✭Steyr


    neilled wrote: »

    in 2007 there were 5 cadetships awarded for the aircorps. Some 304 Applied with 89 making it to the first round interview and 35 in the final interview who were whittled down to the final 5. In 2006 there were somewhere around the 250 initial applications and 10 cadetships awarded.

    Gives you an idea of the odds involved.

    ALSO a great idea of how much interest there is in the IAC.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 Irwinboy


    But out of 300 applicants, about 100 are just in it for the free education.

    Im going getting flying lessons soon so they know I have an interest in it!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    Irwinboy wrote: »
    But out of 300 applicants, about 100 are just in it for the free education.

    Im going getting flying lessons soon so they know I have an interest in it!

    We basically have free Education anyway, alot of lads get flying lesson's too.

    Not trying to put you off though!!! I hope you are studying your Arse off,(Assuming you are still in school!!!)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,798 ✭✭✭Local-womanizer


    I hope you are studying your Arse off,(Assuming you are still in school!!!)

    Thats the mistake I made,not studying hard enough:(


    Aa well,I suppose I will have to slum it with the general enlisted;):D


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 987 ✭✭✭diverdriver


    5 cadetships awarded for the aircorps.
    Most likely at least two will washout. All this means that there are more lottery millionaires each year than Air Corps cadets.

    304 applications seems low. I seem to remember they were in the thousands when I was young enough to apply. I imagine the downturn will see those numbers again soon.

    Irwinboy, I would suggest that if you want to be a pilot first and foremost then a military career is the most difficult to achieve, for Irish people anyway. You'd be better off looking at becoming a civilian pilot. Having said that, even that is increasingly difficult and frankly no longer worth the effort and expense in my opinion and that of many pilots.

    But if you want a military career around aircraft with a possible stint as NCO aircrew, well either Air Corps should fit the bill.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 Irwinboy


    Well all i ever wanted to do was be a military pilot, so I'll try that first. I dont want to be a commercial pilot. It would be $hite!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 987 ✭✭✭diverdriver


    I dont want to be a commercial pilot. It would be $hite!

    Ah the young and naive:rolleyes: Well, I am a commercial pilot and it's far from that.
    I can understand your attitude. All I ever wanted to be was a military pilot. But being born in the wrong country at the wrong time in history like you, it was never going to happen. So don't put all your eggs in the one cockpit.

    There are worse fates than flying civilian aircraft, believe me. Some of my former jobs would make you suicidal. It's worth pointing out that most military pilots end up commercial anyway because the military life has it's limitations and negatives sometimes begin to outweigh the positives.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 Irwinboy


    Well I'll persue the dream, and if that don't work ,I'll be a soldier!:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    Ah the young and naive:rolleyes: Well, I am a commercial pilot and it's far from that.
    I can understand your attitude. All I ever wanted to be was a military pilot. But being born in the wrong country at the wrong time in history like you, it was never going to happen. So don't put all your eggs in the one cockpit.

    There are worse fates than flying civilian aircraft, believe me. Some of my former jobs would make you suicidal. It's worth pointing out that most military pilots end up commercial anyway because the military life has it's limitations and negatives sometimes begin to outweigh the positives.

    And on the upside, if you get suicidal when flying you can take alot of people with you!:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,798 ✭✭✭Local-womanizer


    And on the upside, if you get suicidal when flying you can take alot of people with you!:D

    Or you could be a hero like to Hudson river pilot,he was ex-Airforce!

    When you hear about all them plane troubles the pilot is usually ex-military.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 Irwinboy


    does anybody know what the pass rate in the army air corp is?...Like how many dont get thier wings?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭Leadership


    Irwinboy wrote: »
    does anybody know what the pass rate in the army air corp is?...Like how many dont get thier wings?

    Its very high, of two intakes that I know very well only 15% and 20% got their helo pilot wings. When you factor in the the whole process then it must be as low 2% of all the applicants.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 987 ✭✭✭diverdriver


    I don't know how many started but three got their wings in 2007 and two the year before. Don't know about 2008. A pretty exclusive club.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9 Irish Tempest


    Hi,

    First post guys... be gentle.

    Wrt citzenship enquiry. Its something that is being actively looked at in senior circles about changing - no timecale.

    This was not something the British Government foisted upon the humble recruiters, but rather post 9/11 or 11/9 the yanks decided anyone that would have access to Secret Uk/US eyes only documents would have to be a true Brit passport member of society. Fine if you are born in NI.. not so if born in the ROI. However there are waivers dependant on whether you have any patronage from north of the border or across the water.

    In the Fleet Air Arm you will find plenty of pilots/ observers with Irish lilts but they got in before the rules changed. If you somehow become a naturalised citizen of the UK you should be ok.

    Rgds,

    IT:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,234 ✭✭✭neilled


    Hi,

    First post guys... be gentle.

    Wrt citzenship enquiry. Its something that is being actively looked at in senior circles about changing - no timecale.

    This was not something the British Government foisted upon the humble recruiters, but rather post 9/11 or 11/9 the yanks decided anyone that would have access to Secret Uk/US eyes only documents would have to be a true Brit passport member of society. Fine if you are born in NI.. not so if born in the ROI. However there are waivers dependant on whether you have any patronage from north of the border or across the water.

    In the Fleet Air Arm you will find plenty of pilots/ observers with Irish lilts but they got in before the rules changed. If you somehow become a naturalised citizen of the UK you should be ok.

    Rgds,

    IT:)

    IT, am I correct in thinking that this is related to the fact that most fastjets operated by the UK contain significant amounts of equipment that has source code/IP owned by the USA? I'm specifically thinking of the F-35 spat that happened a few years back and the arguments over operational sovereignty.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9 Irish Tempest


    Negative, when the draconian restriction came in the all branch managers within the services were asked which branches would be free from ever seeing anying US/UK S. The FAA & I suspect the RAF thought due the fact we operate hand in hand with the US in many ops...ooooh that special agreement we are privvy to their 'stuff' ie link material and therefore the restriction sits. The F35 is a good example, but i'm not sure if even folks in the UK mil will be allowed to see inside the black boxes or all will be returned to LM.

    IT


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 987 ✭✭✭diverdriver


    Are we to blame the Americans?

    That kind of confirms my suspicions that there might be flexibility. I doubt if you could join directly from Ireland but if you were living in the UK for a bit or were already in the military. I imagine it could be looked at favourably. Years ago there was a five year residency requirement for the RAF. When it was queried, this was reduced to one year with a nod and a wink that this was only in writing and actually it was a lot shorter than that for Irish applicants.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭Leadership



    This was not something the British Government foisted upon the humble recruiters, but rather post 9/11 or 11/9 the yanks decided anyone that would have access to Secret Uk/US eyes only documents would have to be a true Brit passport member of society.

    It dont think that is quite true. As an Irish citizen in the BA I could never get my DV or developed vetting (Top Secret and below). The only clearance I could get was SC or security cleared that only allowed restricted access to "secret" level documents and equipment.

    When I had dual nationality for opperational reasons my nationality did not change my clearance level as it searches your family tree and with no parents that were British I still could not get clearance.

    So in effect this system has been in place for long before 911.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9 Irish Tempest


    Leadership wrote: »
    It dont think that is quite true. As an Irish citizen in the BA I could never get my DV or developed vetting (Top Secret and below). The only clearance I could get was SC or security cleared that only allowed restricted access to "secret" level documents and equipment.

    When I had dual nationality for opperational reasons my nationality did not change my clearance level as it searches your family tree and with no parents that were British I still could not get clearance.

    So in effect this system has been in place for long before 911.

    Yes & no, there was a system in place befoe 9/11. But what changed was the number of branches that would have been open. Prior to 9/11 there was plenty of 'paddys' serving on Subs/Aircraft and other branches with little or no restriction except those that would have needed exceptional clearance - Comms Techs and the like. Now 90% of Officer branches have been closed and 50% of ratings entrants barred. In effect the ROI is being treated as any other commonwealth country. Wrong, believe you me it vexes me highly but the sad fact is as the UK uses so much US equipment on ships/sub and aircraft that any branch that would have the potetial access to this gear is restricted from entry. For example, you can enter as a Royal Marine from the ROI but not as a Royal Marine Officer - yet you can enter as a BA Officer... nuts!! The logic is because the RM operate in amphibious roles they might be in the ops room of a ship which does have american kit in it. One route for those who would want to be a Royal Marine Officer is to join as a recruit entrant and then go corps commission after they get naturalised.

    DV'd is TS and above, the BA recruits have a 'Basic' S/C check up to (but not including Secret). The full SC check that the RN requires means occassional access to secret. In order to get fully SC'd the vetting people would need to have 3 years visibilty of what you have been getting up to. That's fine in norn iron or the rest of the UK but no so for the ROI.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9 Irish Tempest


    Are we to blame the Americans?

    And yes I would blame the Americans as it was a knee jerk reaction post 9/11 like so many other things they got involved in AF/IQ. Its always a lot more difficult to back pedal!!

    IT


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 Irwinboy


    We not discussing security clearance here! This thread is about the irish air corp, RAF and army air corp!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭OS119


    Irwinboy wrote: »
    We not discussing security clearance here! This thread is about the irish air corp, RAF and army air corp!

    well, its quite a big issue...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭Leadership


    Yes & no, there was a system in place befoe 9/11. But what changed was the number of branches that would have been open. Prior to 9/11 there was plenty of 'paddys' serving on Subs/Aircraft and other branches with little or no restriction except those that would have needed exceptional clearance - Comms Techs and the like. Now 90% of Officer branches have been closed and 50% of ratings entrants barred. In effect the ROI is being treated as any other commonwealth country. Wrong, believe you me it vexes me highly but the sad fact is as the UK uses so much US equipment on ships/sub and aircraft that any branch that would have the potetial access to this gear is restricted from entry. For example, you can enter as a Royal Marine from the ROI but not as a Royal Marine Officer - yet you can enter as a BA Officer... nuts!! The logic is because the RM operate in amphibious roles they might be in the ops room of a ship which does have american kit in it. One route for those who would want to be a Royal Marine Officer is to join as a recruit entrant and then go corps commission after they get naturalised.

    DV'd is TS and above, the BA recruits have a 'Basic' S/C check up to (but not including Secret). The full SC check that the RN requires means occassional access to secret. In order to get fully SC'd the vetting people would need to have 3 years visibilty of what you have been getting up to. That's fine in norn iron or the rest of the UK but no so for the ROI.

    Thanks for the update, very interesting and very wrong.

    I must say when I was commissioned as a LE (late entry) officer I was told I would never get past the rank of Captain and to serve my two years to qualify for the pension and then leave as my "status"* would mean I would never go higher.

    BTW - I think security clearance is very valid for this thread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9 Irish Tempest


    L'ship,

    With regard to the comment that you could not be promoted due to nationality 'status'... outrageous and probably tantemount to discrimination. I would say you have a case. The British Army act of 1966 states, 'that ROI citizens should be treated as equals'.

    I would get a good solicitor if I were you...

    IT:P


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 129 ✭✭Duffers


    Yeah but we all know that isn't true eh!!
    IT Welcome to the forums, sounds like you are a Matelot...but not a fish head??:P
    FAA methinks??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9 Irish Tempest


    Duffers wrote: »
    Yeah but we all know that isn't true eh!!
    IT Welcome to the forums, sounds like you are a Matelot...but not a fish head??:P
    FAA methinks??

    You choose wisely young skywalker... :cool:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭ldxo15wus6fpgm


    Sorry to be dragging up an old thread!

    I was born in the UK and am a citizen. Never actually got the passport though, as I was entitled to an Irish one through parents, I've always had the Irish one.

    I've been thinking of applying to join the RAF as a pilot for years - I understand they're not taking anyone in at the moment but they will have to recruit a few in the next few years. I was in the Air Training Corps for a year while I lived there but then got moved to Ireland aged 13. I'm just about to graduate from college.

    On the RAF/RNavy FAA websites they both state there is not only a citizenship requirement but a residency requirement too, subject to waiver.
    Has anyone ever heard of this requirement being waived for people resident in ROI?

    Cheers


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Leadership wrote: »
    It dont think that is quite true. As an Irish citizen in the BA I could never get my DV or developed vetting (Top Secret and below). The only clearance I could get was SC or security cleared that only allowed restricted access to "secret" level documents and equipment.

    When I had dual nationality for opperational reasons my nationality did not change my clearance level as it searches your family tree and with no parents that were British I still could not get clearance.

    So in effect this system has been in place for long before 911.

    Quite. Part of responsibilities in my last post, as the CI of a certain establishment, was to make certain that OUR green bums sat on the seats alongside the blue bums in a certain long-range ISTAR asset aircraft now in service.

    All of us are/were DV as part of our basic MOS.

    No DV?

    No chance.

    tac


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Sorry to be dragging up an old thread!

    I was born in the UK and am a citizen. Never actually got the passport though, as I was entitled to an Irish one through parents, I've always had the Irish one.

    I've been thinking of applying to join the RAF as a pilot for years - I understand they're not taking anyone in at the moment but they will have to recruit a few in the next few years. I was in the Air Training Corps for a year while I lived there but then got moved to Ireland aged 13. I'm just about to graduate from college.

    On the RAF/RNavy FAA websites they both state there is not only a citizenship requirement but a residency requirement too, subject to waiver.
    Has anyone ever heard of this requirement being waived for people resident in ROI?

    Cheers

    Can you prove your UK citizenship? With back-up documentary evidence such as a 'registration of a live birth' et al?

    If so, then there might be a chance for you. If not, then the residency rules apply, although how they are interpreted these days seems to be a lottery.

    Loads of luck.

    tac

    PS - Sadly, your pre-13 y/o year in the ATC has absolutely no significance whatsoever.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭discus


    It's funny, in the forces you get shot for admitting you were in the TA before going regular, but no-one admits to having been in the cadets...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    discus wrote: »
    It's funny, in the forces you get shot for admitting you were in the TA before going regular, but no-one admits to having been in the cadets...

    Well, that's true. But then, with appropriate training, the TA can and do serve alongside their regular brethren in Afghanistan - most medics are TA, and most medals for bravery under fire have been won by TA medics 'just doing their job'.

    However, it has to be said that however well-intentioned and/or desperate for recognition the Air Training Corps might be, they have yet to send 12-year-old child pilots into battle.

    The worse recruits to deal with, I was told, are the seventeen year-old Army Cadet Force 'sergeants', who seem to believe that all they are doing is changing a 'friday night fun-thing', for a 'seven-days-a-week and paid fun-thing'.

    tac


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭ldxo15wus6fpgm


    tac foley wrote: »
    However, it has to be said that however well-intentioned and/or desperate for recognition the Air Training Corps might be, they have yet to send 12-year-old child pilots into battle.

    The worse recruits to deal with, I was told, are the seventeen year-old Army Cadet Force 'sergeants', who seem to believe that all they are doing is changing a 'friday night fun-thing', for a 'seven-days-a-week and paid fun-thing'.

    tac

    They do a good amount of training though! I did training on a few rifles and narrowly missed my first glider session (got moved 2 weeks before it was scheduled - bummer to say the least)

    Yes I could prove citizenship, I was actually thinking of just getting the passport to make things easier. Might look a little better too! Thanks for the reply!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    They do a good amount of training though! I did training on a few rifles and narrowly missed my first glider session (got moved 2 weeks before it was scheduled - bummer to say the least)

    Yes I could prove citizenship, I was actually thinking of just getting the passport to make things easier. Might look a little better too! Thanks for the reply!

    Hmmmm. Even so, the lack of residency aspect might rise up and kick you in the ***e.

    Basically, you ain't got none.:eek:

    Take MY case - I have an Irish passport and citizenship, courtesy of my ould da, but I've never lived there for more than two weeks at a time as a child, and for almost thirty years I was banned from even visiting the Republic, so I'd have a REALLY hard time proving any 'real Irishness' at all.

    You'll prolly have the same problem proving your UK-ishness, but I wish you luck in trying.

    tac


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