Muted reaction to cycle to work scheme?

72hundred

Anyone listening to the "The Last Word" just there on Today FM, they had a lady on talking about cycling from Lucan to Dun Laoghaire and saying how difficult it was (apparently only able to get to Palmerstown).

If she can't cycle a few km's I don't think any cycling incentive scheme will get her on a bike.

Also arguing the case for not spending money on cycling and instead on buses.

jlang

To be fair to her, Lucan to Dun Laoghaire isn't really the type of distance that many would plan to cycle or be encouraged to cycle by any incentive scheme (although I get the impression some of the folks here might do it and go home for lunch). Lucan to Palmerstown, however, would be a reasonable distance to bike commute.

blorg

+1 there jlang, Lucan to Dun Laoghaire is a long haul and through nasty urban roads to boot once into the city. There are plenty of people however who would have more manageable cycles. This person could even consider doing Lucan-Connolly and getting the DART, or even Lucan-Heuston with the LUAS to Connolly. (TBH even that is still a long enough cycle and most people do less.)

Stark

I'm impressed that she attempted it in the first place. At least she set out with a positive attitude. Most people would react like you suggested intercourse with a relative if you suggested to them that they cycle that commute.

Ryaner

The process is really simple. HR get a few standard forms you get the employee to sign. Get finance to agree to coding it / adding it to the system. Then arrange someone to "manage" the scheme with the orders to ensure bits choosen are covered under the scheme.

Húrin

If the government cared about increasing the number of cyclists, they would start constructing segregated, or at least generous, cycle lanes. Before anyone starts lecturing me about that, look up "subjective safety". How safe the situation appears to be is more important than how safe it actually is, if the goal is to get people on the bike.

Stark wrote: »

I'm impressed that she attempted it in the first place. At least she set out with a positive attitude. Most people would react like you suggested intercourse with a relative if you suggested to them that they cycle that commute.

Indeed you are right. From the far west to the far south of the city is an epic bike commute.

Húrin

Caroline_ie wrote: »

As you say it yourself *before* ... as in last century and in countries like China, which I can invite you to move to, if you think they have a better life than us.

Oh ffs, I didn't say that they had a better life than us. China in particular is not an ideal, but their problems are created by totalitarian gov't rather than cycling.

My point was that in countries where there is not much likelihood of Dutch-style gov't leadership in cycling facilities (i.e. Ireland), it is economics that will cause people to cycle more. There's nothing inherently impossible about most people commuting by bike.

I also see no reason that just because this was the situation in the past, it is not likely to be the situation again. I am thinking of both the current recession and the inevitable sharp upward trend in oil prices. This will cause radical increases in prices of both petrol and the cars themselves.

Which is probably equal to the increase in foreign nationals and students moving to the city.

Plausible enough, but 100,000 migrants have left Ireland this year (according to last saturday's Irish Times). I expect that many of them were cyclists in Dublin. And yet I still see more cycling this year than last year.

rubadub

Originally Posted by rubadub View Post
I would have liked to see it somehow out of the hands of HR depts. If they were anyway serious about encouraging people using bikes they would just scrap tax on them altogether, it is a FAR simpler concept, it would also have people buying bikes in Irish shops more. ... I have said in other threads if they were anyway serious about tackling obesity & bad health they would scrap tax on all fitness related equipment

blorg wrote: »

Not allowed to, we don't have control over VAT rates, there is a minimum allowed of 15%. They could scrap it for safety equipment like helmets however (as is the case in the UK.)

Are you saying they cannot scrap VAT on bikes for everybody? Or not take it out of HR hands? By that I meant some completely different way of doing it, not sure how, but maybe like people post their own medical bills in for tax purposes.

blorg wrote: »

Yes, it is clearly spelt out there is no minimum usage requirement.

Dunno why they even bother to mention cycling to work so... People will buy them for their kids and leisure use, so again why not scrap VAT. It is easier and since many would usually be getting around 40% back then they might get the same amount of "loss" to the governments pockets either way.

blorg wrote: »

The "only once every five years" takes care of this. Once you have bought (paid for?) the bike it is yours to do what you will with but you can't get another for 5 years.

That is messed up too. If I get a €200 bike to try out I might get into cycling and want to buy a more expensive one a year later, but cannot avail of a discount. Also if the €200 is nicked I cannot use the other €800. Again no VAT would solve this.

Tawny wrote: »

My work isn't remotely interested in implimenting it. I think it just sounds like too much hassle for them.

I explained briefly how it works, they have to buy the bike for me, then I pay the money back, and the response was pretty much 'ohh I see, thats a Shame'.

Thats what I mentioned before, companies might view it as a bonus to you, and look down on your for being the awkward prick who wasted so much HR time.

Lumen wrote: »

Honestly, how hard can it be?

Wiggle.co.uk, company credit card, e-mail to accounts, job done.

How long do you honestly think this will take. Once they have done one the job is easier, but for 1 or 2 people in a small company it is a really big hassle. People have been let go in my place in sales & HR, they are up to their eyes in work. There was big hassle when 1 guy wanted the travel thing. Seriously, if you stood there with a stop watch how long will it take. I have heard a single order in my place costs €25 min in admin costs to process. All this "it takes 5mins" is bullsh!t. I call people on it all the time, I have to cost up production costs. I ask lads
"how long does it take to make that item",
"oh 5mins"
"ok I'll be back in 10mins to get 2 so"
"ah jesus, hang on there, give me 2 hours to get all my stuff set up and find the parts".

The HR will have to research it all etc.

seamus wrote: »

To be honest, while yes there is a bit more effort for larger companies in terms of setting up a defined process, it is also true that many people in administration departments are either ridiculously incompetent or ridiculously lazy when it comes to these things.

In large companies once set up it is just a process though, the smaller ones catering to a single person would be dead against it.

seamus wrote: »

I was looking to buy in PC parts for a place I used to work for, looking to get them online for half the price that our "preferred" supplier had quoted. I was told that "setting up a vendor in the system is a lot of work" and to go with the normal supplier.

Same in my place. People are paid by the hour, if it costs 30mins to process stuff the saving is often lost.

Lumen

rubadub wrote: »

All this "it takes 5mins" is bullsh!t. I call people on it all the time, I have to cost up production costs....In large companies once set up it is just a process though, the smaller ones catering to a single person would be dead against it.

I run a small company. I have a company credit card. It would take me about two minutes to click on a Wiggle link, pay and forward the invoice to the accounts person, who would then take about a couple of minutes to enter the invoice into Sage even with Wiggle as a new supplier.

Managing people effectively takes a lot of effort. Buying them a bike doesn't.

Húrin

I don't think that anyone doesn't cycle because they can't afford a bike. I don't thus see why VAT should be removed on them. It may result in road bikes being cheaper and thus reduce the proportion of mountain bikes in Dublin. However, I doubt that my dislike of cheap MTBs is worth that lost revenue these days.

rubadub

Lumen wrote: »

I run a small company. I have a company credit card. It would take me about two minutes to click on a Wiggle link, pay and forward the invoice to the accounts person, who would then take about a couple of minutes to enter the invoice into Sage even with Wiggle as a new supplier.

I find that hard to believe TBH. If you read this and I said GO RIGHT NOW, then you are saying that in literally 240 seconds time that is all done & dusted, new supplier set up and details all entered etc. Maybe you are superquick & efficient and could get all this done in 240 seconds, if you ever let that accounts person go send them my way! The majority of people are not that quick, and that includes people who I consider to be efficient. I have to calcuate time/labour costings in my job and know the usual meaning of "5 minutes".

Húrin

I think we should wait until a couple of months of warm spring weather to see any more take-up.

alfalad

The weather has a major part to play, especially to the people they are trying to convert to cycling so give it a month or two and see then! It is i think it working, was in a bike shop today, and they had 5 bikes ready to go waiting for cheques from companies before they are shipped out.

On the other issue of have good cycle lanes was in Rome at the weekend and the attached is a good example of what a cycle lane should be like! If you had one of these on each of the main routes into town that would be a major help and encouragement! The photo was taken late at night near a pub and hence the people walking on the path!
Although saw it mentioned early in the thread that not many people in Milan cycle and noticed this in Rome as well, but with Italian drivers would you??? Never been so nervous in a taxi before!! Also would be hard cycling on the streets on Milan or Rome with the cobble stones, if they were wet it and with a slick set of 23's it would be hard work!

The scheme it self is quite simple to introduce it's the companies that make it harder on themselves. The way it was done in my work place is i filled out a form with the relevant details and an invoice from the bike shop, one supplier was entered in the system as bike scheme. All they had to do is write a cheque to the shop!

Jawgap

alfalad wrote: »

The weather has a major part to play, especially to the people they are trying to convert to cycling so give it a month or two and see then! It is i think it working, was in a bike shop today, and they had 5 bikes ready to go waiting for cheques from companies before they are shipped out.

I agree. I think it is moslty to do with the weather. People where I work know I cycle and I've been bombarded with questions. The reply from many, especially those who haven't cycled in decades is that they'll leave it until after Easter.

My only fear is that this new influx of cyclists will increase competition for the shower!! No more leisurely soaks - it'll be just like home with people banging on the door telling me to get a move on!!

rubadub

alfalad wrote: »

The weather has a major part to play,

More like peoples perception of the weather, people think it rains a lot more than it does. I prefer the cold like today, I don't actually like cycling in the summer on hot days.

I have good rain gear so can arrive bone dry to work. On the odd very bad rainy day I get co-workers saying "jaysus, weather like this must make you think twice about getting a car". I tell them it is makes me even more dead against getting a car. I have the use of a car a lot of the time, and in rainy weather I especially do not take it. Every little runt gets driven to school by mammy on rainy days nowadays, I would take 60mins on those days instead of 20mins on the bike. If I woke up to rain and decided to drive I would be 30-40mins late to work

Raam

rubadub wrote: »

More like peoples perception of the weather, people think it rains a lot more than it does. I prefer the cold like today, I don't actually like cycling in the summer on hot days.

I have good rain gear so can arrive bone dry to work. On the odd very bad rainy day I get co-workers saying "jaysus, weather like this must make you think twice about getting a car". I tell them it is makes me even more dead against getting a car. I have the use of a car a lot of the time, and in rainy weather I especially do not take it. Every little runt gets driven to school by mammy on rainy days nowadays, I would take 60mins on those days instead of 20mins on the bike. If I woke up to rain and decided to drive I would be 30-40mins late to work

True. The perception of weather from inside a car is often a lot worse than when you are actually outside on the bike. The thoughts of driving to work and sitting on the Howth Road trying to get through Killester or the Clontarf Road trying to get on to Alfie Byrne keeps me from ever wanting to drive to work.

kincsem

rubadub wrote: »

Every little runt gets driven to school by mammy on rainy days nowadays

And everyday. I live fifty yards from a school.
I prefer the term "little emperors". Imo mammy used one of these excuses to get a new 4x4 - rain, traffic, paedos, drug pushers.

Lumen

kincsem wrote: »

And everyday. I live fifty yards from a school.
I prefer the term "little emperors". Imo mammy used one of these excuses to get a new 4x4 - rain, traffic, paedos, drug pushers.

I keep telling my toddler that he should walk the two miles to pre-school, or at least cycle, regardless of the weather. Will he do it? Will he heck. Stupid little inconsiderate runt.

Captain Ahab

is the cycle to work scheme available in the public service (teachers etc) or is it just for private companies?

rughdh

Captain Ahab wrote: »

is the cycle to work scheme available in the public service (teachers etc) or is it just for private companies?

Yes, it is available in the public service.

stuf

Captain Ahab wrote: »

is the cycle to work scheme available in the public service (teachers etc) or is it just for private companies?

it's for any taxpayer but your employer has to participate

More info:

http://www.biketowork.ie/site/
http://wiki.boards.ie/wiki/BikeToWork

Traumadoc

rughdh wrote: »

Yes, it is available in the public service.

Well its not available in the HSE yet.

rughdh

Traumadoc wrote: »

Well its not available in the HSE yet.

Sorry. Meant to say it's not exclusive to the private sector, but it's up to your employer to participate.