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Renewable Energy - how will you comply with Building Regulations?

  • 27-02-2009 7:09pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭


    To those of you who will NOT have your house completed ( meaning that the structure of the external walls has been erected ) before this date -

    A straw pole -

    ( would be grateful if you would simply answer these 3 questions, without asking any questions yourselves ..... :) )

    You need to know this to comply with 2008 Conservation of Fuel and Energy Regulations

    - what renewable energy source are you going to use ?
    - assuming you have lined up your on site test or will do so very soon , what air tightness target are you aiming for ?
    - what is your calculated energy performance and CO2 emmision rate ?

    If your NEW build will complete after June 30 09 - what renewables are you using 125 votes

    Heat Pump
    0% 0 votes
    Solar Thermal
    22% 28 votes
    Wood Pellet Boiler
    44% 55 votes
    Wood Pellet Stove
    7% 9 votes
    Wind Turbine
    8% 11 votes
    Solar PV
    4% 5 votes
    Some Combination of the above
    13% 17 votes


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,456 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    sinnerboy wrote: »
    To those of you who will NOT have your house completed ( meaning that the structure of the external walls has been erected ) before this date -

    A straw pole -

    ( would be grateful if you would simply answer these 3 questions, without asking any questions yourselves ..... :) )

    You need to know this to comply with 2008 Conservation of Fuel and Energy Regulations

    - what renewable energy source are you going to use ?
    - assuming you have lined up your on site test or will do so very soon , what air tightness target are you aiming for ?
    - what is your calculated energy performance and CO2 emmision rate ?
    Sinnerboy, I intend on using a system that I've seen you recommend before on another thread whereas I intend building the internal lead of 215 block to take the structural weight and then roof and then insulate and build out leaf. Would I need to have all this completed before 30th June or would the inner leaf be enough? I'm toying with the idea of PV Solar after ESB's recent announcement, but am not totally sure so at the moment I have no renewable energy source


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    Ok I suppose I am not surprised to see this thread dispaper of the front page so fast

    Either there are not so many building now , or there is a genuine lack of understanding or interest .

    Quazzie2002 - if the external wall structure is completed in time you "will get away with it" . I don't believe that is your modus operandi thus the inverted commas

    To make an informed decision on PV's and many other items you need a DEAP calculation and competent professional assist you .

    That same calculation will

    1. demonstrate your compliance with Building Regs ( 2005/08 depending on works progress )
    2. Determine your BER cert rating


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭MrLNB


    sinnerboy wrote: »
    Ok I suppose I am not surprised to see this thread dispaper of the front page so fast

    Either there are not so many building now , or there is a genuine lack of understanding or interest .

    Quazzie2002 - if the external wall structure is completed in time you "will get away with it" . I don't believe that is your modus operandi thus the inverted commas

    To make an informed decision on PV's and many other items you need a DEAP calculation and competent professional assist you .

    That same calculation will

    1. demonstrate your compliance with Building Regs ( 2005/08 depending on works progress )
    2. Determine your BER cert rating

    you said i think. My engineer confirmed my thoughts on all of them anyway, HB and BER. Well I always held that opinion about BER when my house was assessed. He walked out the door and doesn't have a clue if there is insulation in the walls, doesn't know HOW MANY HALESTONES I count inside the front door in the downpours, not to mention the buckled window in the landing which I use now as ventilation. gave up on sealing it. (thank the lord Im renting).

    People have no interest in something that's so badly regulated, and all it does is cost people money.

    LNB


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭topcatcbr


    Your BER assessor has to assume that the house was built properly and can only assess what he can see. If you are Renting why would you have to employ a BER assessor or Engineer. Your landlord should have done this. If you want your BER assessor to be certain of the insulation in the walls it can be done. Just open up the walls so he can see measure and photo the insulation in min 4 areas. By the way you will pay for this and the cost of reinstating the walls to origonal standard. Or you can accept that the house was built to the regulations which were in force at the time of construction and take a default U-Value for this. Your choice.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭MrLNB


    topcatcbr wrote: »
    Your BER assessor has to assume that the house was built properly and can only assess what he can see. If you are Renting why would you have to employ a BER assessor or Engineer. Your landlord should have done this. If you want your BER assessor to be certain of the insulation in the walls it can be done. Just open up the walls so he can see measure and photo the insulation in min 4 areas. By the way you will pay for this and the cost of reinstating the walls to origonal standard. Or you can accept that the house was built to the regulations which were in force at the time of construction and take a default U-Value for this. Your choice.

    it was the landlord. :D.

    yeah, its just that, u know. well,
    ok,,, you see. ok this is it. its hard to believe (if i was buying a house) an assessors report, if, now, if, that report is based on visual and only visual (he only had pen and paper and measuring tape) inspections. And I agree, he cant knock all walls and up lift the floor, why is there need to trust the BER over the Builder. if only the BER cert involved the infra red heat censor camera and the air tightness test. I just never got it. The BER person is only doing his Job. but the Rating is based on his inspection, then again, i dont know, , ,I have never bought a house, and probably never will, I dont even know if people buying homes put weight on the certs, maybe they do. I know they are legal. but job creation is job creation :P


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    Anyone care to mention how they intend to provide renewables in their new build to comply with TGDL 2008 ?

    How did you make your decision ?


    ( talk of existing house BER is diverting - if off topic )


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 The Banks Home


    Hi ,

    You don't have a box for non-compliance, or something like haven't looked in to it.

    I was at the Self-build in Galway, everyone was shocked to here it wasn't a condition of my planning.

    But on my way home, I remembered something. I think Mayo Co Co are holding a stance against the gov. I think they are in court. I just thought i remembered hearing something. Is anyone else getting conditions of planning, Professionals at the Show seemed to think that people had it on their conditions.

    Bnk


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    This is a building regulations matter . Not planning .

    When you decide - please take part in the poll .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭mr_edge_to_you


    We're going the geo-thermal route. I think if you have an opportunity to build a new house you should incorparate some level of renewable energy into it - doesn't have to be a full passive house even something such as a few solar panels for hot water. Anything that directly reduces your dependency on oil is a smart move.

    If everything goes according to plan for us my fiancee will be staying at home and geo-thermal heating will best supply our heating needs (constant ambient heat!). From speaking to friends it is not any cheaper than a conventional oil heating system but you get more heat for the same money - good enough for us!

    As a side note, it must stated that renewable energy does cost money and that cannot be ignored. It adds significantly to the cost of your build. For us to install the heat pump is a fair chunk of our mortgage - we are fortunate enough that we are in a position to manage this but many people's circumstances don't allow them this opportunity. But as I said above everyone should do what they can! However small or simple it is!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    I think if you have an opportunity to build a new house you should incorparate some level of renewable energy into it

    One actually has no choice . B Regs require it


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  • Subscribers Posts: 42,312 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    just a quick note:

    im just finished doing a provisional BER on a new build, 252 sq m, to determine compliance with 2008 regulations.. and this is the MINIMUM requirement to meet:

    renewables quota
    Carbon performance coefficient
    Energy performance coefficient


    Building Elements
    walls 0.27 floors 0.25 roof sloped 0.2 roof flat 0.16
    windows 1.6
    thermal bridging factor 0.08

    Heating space and water
    6 sq m generic solar tubes, 300 litre cylinder
    boiler interlock
    94.2% condensing oil boiler feeding rad system
    dedicated wood pellet / log stove with back boiler

    Lighting

    100% LELs

    Ventilation

    natural, 1 chimney, 2 open flues, 18 passive or intermittent fans, draught lobby


    The house must meet a B1 rating at 89.17 kwhr/m2/yr to meet regulations.

    Interesting to note where things can be altered and where they cannot.
    1.6 u value windows required min because of glazing percentage (28%)
    Renewable quota unable to be altered, actually, of interest, if solar collectors (tubes) alone were to be used, according to 'generic' information... id need 14 sqm with an 1850 litre cyclinder!! :D:D.

    so to anyone thinking of building, or just about to start..... GET YOUR CALCULATIONS DONE to see what you need to incorporate to comply...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    Hi ,

    You don't have a box for non-compliance, or something like haven't looked in to it.

    I was at the Self-build in Galway, everyone was shocked to here it wasn't a condition of my planning.

    But on my way home, I remembered something. I think Mayo Co Co are holding a stance against the gov. I think they are in court. I just thought i remembered hearing something. Is anyone else getting conditions of planning, Professionals at the Show seemed to think that people had it on their conditions.

    Bnk

    Mayo Co Council are in conflict with the Dept of the Enviornment over their adopted development plan which relates to planning in the county. The Min requirement for renewables is as stated above a requirement of the Building regulations (Part L 2007) which comes into effect for all houses from the end of June this year. It has nothing to do with your planning conditions. Best of luck with your build but beware of people selling renewables (or anything else eco for that matter!!!) You should check with your supervising engineer or architect if you are exempt from this or not.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭drunken_munky52


    sinnerboy wrote: »
    To those of you who will NOT have your house completed ( meaning that the structure of the external walls has been erected ) before this date -

    A straw pole -

    ( would be grateful if you would simply answer these 3 questions, without asking any questions yourselves ..... :) )

    You need to know this to comply with 2008 Conservation of Fuel and Energy Regulations

    - what renewable energy source are you going to use ?
    - assuming you have lined up your on site test or will do so very soon , what air tightness target are you aiming for ?
    - what is your calculated energy performance and CO2 emmision rate ?

    1. I'd use ***** solar panel hot water system and auxillary heating system; a ***** engineering 97% efficient gas condesing boiler with regenerative flue. (not renewable but very efficient, also lowers the Co2 emmision)

    2. Youd need thermal bridging factor of about 0.5 to have it not to airtight.

    3. Aim for about 100 KG CO2/m2/year


  • Subscribers Posts: 42,312 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    1. I'd use ***** solar panel hot water system and auxillary heating system; a ***** engineering 97% efficient gas condesing boiler with regenerative flue. (not renewable but very efficient, also lowers the Co2 emmision)

    2. Youd need thermal bridging factor of about 0.5 to have it not to airtight.

    3. Aim for about 100 KG CO2/m2/year

    1. have you had your design and specification run through the DEAP software to see if your spec complies?

    2. not quite sure what you mean here... are you aiming for an air tightness value of 0.5?? thats the bare minimum....
    thermal bridging can be factored at 0.08 if building with accrediated details.. 0.15 if not... thermal bridging does not influence air infiltration.

    3. absolutely not... that would not comply with regs. for example a 200 m2 dwelling would produce 20 tons a year if that rate is applied...
    again, only a DEAP calculation will show what level needs to be achieved in order to comply with building regs...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 555 ✭✭✭soldsold



    2. Youd need thermal bridging factor of about 0.5 to have it not to airtight.

    thermal bridging and air tightness are surely separate issues?

    Steve


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51 ✭✭HobNob


    How do you workout what you need to be compliant ?
    do I need to get an energy assessor ?

    would a heat pump be sufficient ?


  • Subscribers Posts: 42,312 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    HobNob wrote: »
    1. How do you workout what you need to be compliant ?

    2. do I need to get an energy assessor ?

    3. would a heat pump be sufficient ?

    1. the design and specification needs to be run through a software package called DEAP (Dwelling Energy Assessment Procedure)

    2. a BER assessor is formally trained in using DEAP, so yes, they can do this. But there are also many professionals out there who have trained in DEAP and not registered as assessors, mainly to do just this, to be able to certify compliance with regs. Ask the person (engineer / architect) who is going to certify your build if he/she can do it or not...

    3. a heat pump with a COP (coefficient of performance) of 3.0 or greater is considered acceptable as a renewable heat source. however, whether or not this alone will meet regs is impossible to say without DEAp calculations


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    1. I'd use ***** solar panel hot water system and auxillary heating system; a ***** engineering 97% efficient gas condesing boiler with regenerative flue. (not renewable but very efficient, also lowers the Co2 emmision)

    2. Youd need thermal bridging factor of about 0.5 to have it not to airtight.

    3. Aim for about 100 KG CO2/m2/year

    1. please don't name companies . And please read the thread title again -

    2. That makes no sense whatsoever

    3. What does that have to do with Renewables + B Regs ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 105 ✭✭MacTheKnife1


    Air tightness: Am aiming for [FONT=&quot]a measurement of less than 6 m3/hr/m2 is required. I hope that we will actually do much better than that. Air tightness test will be done next month. Trying to follow best practice - but not using the air tightness mebrane (I know I will get slammed for this last statement).

    Renewables: Am using 4 flat solar panels on roof facing due south. Also solid fuel stove/range. HRV system.

    No underfloor heating, no oil heating.

    Am aiming for a B1 rating - or better still an A3 rating.

    Windows 1.4 rated, mainly south facing, a few small windows (some triple glazed to north side).

    My BER guy said I would get an A3 rating if I used wood pellet instead of solid fuel for heating. Given I have lots of trees beside the house it seems stupid to import woodpellets from Canada to heat the house. So B1 rating it will be with my solid fuel range. In this case I think my B1 run on sold fuel would be more energy efficent than the A3 that runs a wood pellet range/boiler.
    [/FONT]


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 555 ✭✭✭soldsold


    Hi Mactheknife,

    I'm interested in your method of achieving good airtightness without using a membrane. Is this for cost reasons? Are you using OSB sheeting in the roof to give airtightness? IF so, any concerns about humidity/ condensation from the OSB being a good vapour barrier?

    Steve


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 105 ✭✭MacTheKnife1


    soldsold wrote: »
    Hi Mactheknife,

    I'm interested in your method of achieving good airtightness without using a membrane. Is this for cost reasons? Are you using OSB sheeting in the roof to give airtightness? IF so, any concerns about humidity/ condensation from the OSB being a good vapour barrier?

    Steve

    Steve, I know I risk getting my head blown off here. But I'll answer:

    I did not use the membrane cos noone seems to know how to use it. Also cost issues were scary. I did get a price estimate for installing it and it seemed very high.

    I am not too worried about humidity issues given that I have the HRV and so the house will be well ventilated.

    I am using rafterlock insulation in the roof 150mm and also 50mm insulated board on the ceiling. The builder is excellent and his attentiion to detail is very good. So at this moment in time I am *hoping* I will have a good quality of air tightness and excellent U values. As the hosue will be tested in a few weeks I will post the tightness value then.

    I have checked the windows today and no air leaks - thats before they were plastered, and on a windy day. Once they are boarded and plastered nothing will get past them.

    I have no dormer windows/side attics which are noted for air leak risks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 105 ✭✭MacTheKnife1


    soldsold wrote: »
    I'm interested in your method of achieving good airtightness without using a membrane.

    Another thing we did was to plaster over all electrial chasing to seal the chased area. Then we put our insulated board over that.

    I am not looking for perfection - just decent quality.

    The membrane is all well and good but very few people know how to use the stuff, and it is expensive.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 555 ✭✭✭soldsold


    Thanks for the reply. Will be very interested to hear the test results. The HRV system will need a good airtightness to work efficiently so fingers crossed!

    Steve


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    soldsold wrote: »
    Will be very interested to hear the test results.

    me too . keep us posted please


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭Mazotasan


    Me three...Have similar spec as Mac and havn't got into the detail yet especially where block and roof meet. Will be watching this...good luck


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 144 ✭✭rodred


    Hi,

    just trying to figure out how to comply, as roof not suitable for solar
    as shadow from dormers will block sun for half the day.
    not sure have the budget for heat pump air to water or air to air.
    woodpellets seem to be out of favour as supply etc.

    would a solid or gas stove do it, that could do the heating and water at the same time? or is this even possible

    any info much appreciated

    cheers


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    rodred wrote: »
    Hi,

    just trying to figure out how to comply, as roof not suitable for solar
    as shadow from dormers will block sun for half the day.
    not sure have the budget for heat pump air to water or air to air.
    woodpellets seem to be out of favour as supply etc.

    would a solid or gas stove do it, that could do the heating and water at the same time? or is this even possible

    any info much appreciated

    cheers

    Hi Rodred, you don't say do you have to comply with Part L 2008 ( if you havn't started building yet you do!!) If so then you require renewables but that is the least of it if you ask me. Who is signing off on your house they should be guiding you after all they will be signing off on it or you will at least need to get your house assessed by a BER assessor (preferably one with a professional construction background) I'm not sure what you diffculty with wood pellet is, there is no problem with the supply of pellets unless you are talking to someone who is pushing oil or a heat pump!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 144 ✭✭rodred


    hi No.6

    thanks for gettin back to me, yeah i have to comply to 2008.
    i have just heard that supply can be a bit shaky at times and also
    that you could do with a good size store area for them?
    im on a corner site of existing house.

    by 2008 regs, then my only option might be to go with a heat pump
    or pallet boiler then, if solar is a no go.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    rodred wrote: »
    hi No.6

    thanks for gettin back to me, yeah i have to comply to 2008.
    i have just heard that supply can be a bit shaky at times and also
    that you could do with a good size store area for them?
    im on a corner site of existing house.

    by 2008 regs, then my only option might be to go with a heat pump
    or pallet boiler then, if solar is a no go.

    If your site is tight the only heat pump options you have are a) bored collector and b) air to water. a) is the most efficient and most expensive due to cost of bore hole., b) I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, annecdotaly expensive and very inefficient and costly to run

    For wood pellets you need a minimum of a 3.5 tonne store, there's plenty of silo's available at the moment, external or internal. If I was building new i would make sure the pellet store is located internally in a garage and preferably at a higher level than the boiler so you can use gravity to feed it. Auger's and vacume systems are expensive and can break down gravity will always work!!. Also you need to be able to get a large truck to within 20m of your pellet store. Wood pellets are also carbon neutral for when the carbon tax arrives, heat pumps use electrictry which is not carbon neutral.

    I Hope this helps


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 144 ✭✭rodred


    For wood pellets you need a minimum of a 3.5 tonne store

    thanks for the info, the site is only 220sqm corner site. so not sure that
    there would even be room for 3.5 tonne store. that sounds like alout of pellets. :eek:

    is there anything else i can do can anyone tell me??:confused:

    thanks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭mr_edge_to_you


    rodred wrote: »
    Hi,

    just trying to figure out how to comply, as roof not suitable for solar
    as shadow from dormers will block sun for half the day.
    not sure have the budget for heat pump air to water or air to air.
    woodpellets seem to be out of favour as supply etc.

    would a solid or gas stove do it, that could do the heating and water at the same time? or is this even possible

    any info much appreciated

    cheers
    hey rodred, we found ourselves in a similiar predicament - house not suitable for solar panels. Despite what people might say about the positives of wood pellets we just weren't convinced. We were left to look at the geothermal option. To be honest it was the first aspect of the house we sussed out. We knew that it was going to cost about 20k. A more traditional system wouldn't exactly cost a lot less (My parents just spent 12k retro fitting a stove and Zoned heating and installing thermostats). A good big stanley stove will set you back a good bit. We really wanted aluclad windows but we were prepared to sacrifice them for the geo thermal. I'm sure if you sit down and look at your figures very carefully you can come up with the dollars for the heating. For example, mdf v solid wood kitchen, pine or red deal v oak etc. You should really go and look at your figures again. You've got to look long term.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 64 ✭✭PJMCKE


    Hi,
    Just wondering if anyone can post details of their setup to make the target of 10kw/m2/yr

    I.E.
    Information

    House size...............................................................
    BER Rating ..............................................................

    Renewable contributions.

    Main space heating...................................................
    Water heating.........................................................
    Secondary heating...................................................

    Other information
    lighting...................................................................
    Ventialation............................................................
    Radiators or underfloor...............................................
    solar sizing...............................................................
    Pellet boiler sizing (modulating with or without storage).....
    Geothermal size and collector information. .......................

    Currently with my house of 2995m2. I cannot fit enough solar tubes (7m long) to comply with regulations so it leaves me very stuck with choices (wood pellet or geothermal). Solar panels were originally water heating but increasing the solar panels to comply with renewable contributions from 3m2 to 7-8m2 required changing the heating system to a multienergy tank to dump the extra water heated by the solar. This in turn required underfloor to take advantage of the stored energy (lower temps)

    BTW: One item i originally misread is the lenght of panels. With tubes the spread of panels is longer (due to everything being is quoted in aperature area) and of course tubes have spaces between them which panels do not and this adds to the length taken up on the roof area. The catch with panels is the yeild is generally lower.

    So i short 7m2 of tubes required 80 tubes and this worked out 7m long => Roof not long enough to take this.

    It is a bit of a mess really.

    This issue should be more prevalent now that it is being enforced by the councils in the building control officers.
    So anyone with real experiences would be appreciated.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 Feech La Manna


    How ye doin,

    Thought I'd make my first post about how to achieve a B1 BER without wasting money on all the above which are all overpriced, and in some cases just don't work well in this country. You can do the following with your new build which will work;

    • pumped block wall cavity with cosy board on inner wall or equivalent for timber frame - no wall vents
    • good quality, proven external doors and windows with K glass and vents (watch out for the cowboys). Seal window frames well once installed, ensure installer doesn't skimp on the mastic.
    • insulate ceilings (except under tank) and roof well - watch how you insulate the roof, beware of moisture barrier - use vent slates if required.
    • no electric shower - pressurised hot water system instead, run off solid multi-fuel boiler (gets around rule for at least one of the above on new builds as it can burn wood pellets) with an oil boiler as back-up.
    Have a good one.

    G


  • Subscribers Posts: 42,312 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    How ye doin,

    Thought I'd make my first post about how to achieve a B1 BER without wasting money on all the above which are all overpriced, and in some cases just don't work well in this country. You can do the following with your new build which will work;

    • pumped block wall cavity with cosy board on inner wall or equivalent for timber frame - no wall vents
    • good quality, proven external doors and windows with K glass and vents (watch out for the cowboys). Seal window frames well once installed, ensure installer doesn't skimp on the mastic.
    • insulate ceilings (except under tank) and roof well - watch how you insulate the roof, beware of moisture barrier - use vent slates if required.
    • no electric shower - pressurised hot water system instead, run off solid multi-fuel boiler (gets around rule for at least one of the above on new builds as it can burn wood pellets) with an oil boiler as back-up.
    Have a good one.

    G


    eh?? :confused::confused:


    You MUST provide renewable energy sources in your build.!!!

    How do you intend to comply? because what you have posted above does NOT comply.

    A solid fuel boiler is not a substitute for a wood boiler. In order for your renewable requirement to be met, and if using a stove with back boiler, the stove must be a wood burning ONLY stove. Its what is referred to as a dedicated wood stove.

    feech, id suggest you get a professional involved on your build before you start as retrofitting these renewable sources can be very expensive. If you already have a professional involved, and this is the way you have been advised, id suggest looking elsewhere for more educated advise.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 Feech La Manna


    Sorry, should have clarified that a Wood Burning Variant of a Multi Fuel Stove will comply. ;)


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  • Subscribers Posts: 42,312 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Sorry, should have clarified that a Wood Burning Variant of a Multi Fuel Stove will comply. ;)

    thats an oxymoron...

    it cant be multi fuel, it must be wood dedicated.

    have you had a provisional DEAP assessment carried out?? using a wood stove as your renewable means you need to increase u values substantially...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16 taxman


    sinnerboy wrote: »
    ( would be grateful if you would simply answer these 3 questions, without asking any questions yourselves ..... :) )

    - what renewable energy source are you going to use ?

    Sinnerboy,
    Permit me to ask a question, seeing as its a year later now, what renewable(s) do you generally find best to comply for a 250sqm underfloor (U/S & D/S) dwelling?


  • Subscribers Posts: 42,312 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    taxman wrote: »
    Sinnerboy,
    Permit me to ask a question, seeing as its a year later now, what renewable(s) do you generally find best to comply for a 250sqm underfloor (U/S & D/S) dwelling?

    Mind me asking what U/S and D/S is please?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭morning delight


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Mind me asking what U/S and D/S is please?

    Probably Upstairs and Downstairs...


  • Subscribers Posts: 42,312 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Probably Upstairs and Downstairs...

    that makes sense, thanks...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    taxman wrote: »
    Sinnerboy,
    Permit me to ask a question, seeing as its a year later now, what renewable(s) do you generally find best to comply for a 250sqm underfloor (U/S & D/S) dwelling?

    By best I take it you mean least expensive .

    So in very general terms ....

    A combination of solar thermal for domestic hot water and a sealed wood pellet stove is probably going to be the smart choice for the one off rural or large suburban site .

    Wood pellet boiler - for space heating and hot water may be an option but you must factor in the not insignificant cost in terms of space and in terms of money for the that part of the building associated with storage of the fuel .

    For a tight suburban site where size and/or roof orientation means solar thermal is not practical the I believe air source heat pump may be the way to go . Vertical bore ground source heat pump if the budget can expand to that - extra over +€5k for the above ground kit + €10-15k for the bores alone

    Wind turbines and solar PV's have much longer payback periods .

    .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    have you had a provisional DEAP assessment carried out?? using a wood stove as your renewable means you need to increase u values substantially...

    Paradoxically syd i think that may be an accidental route to a very good building

    If U Values are pushed past b reg mins and towards passive house standards and you then have the wood pellet boiler on board simply to satisfy b regs .... sounds a bit like the Mosart house doesn't it ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭morning delight


    sinnerboy wrote: »
    If U Values are pushed past b reg mins and towards passive house standards and you then have the wood pellet boiler on board simply to satisfy b regs .... sounds a bit like the Mosart house doesn't it ?

    Hi sinnerboy

    Does this mean if you push your house to passive standard the conditions regarding renewables is relaxed? Or at least how much is it relaxed?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    You would think so - but no .

    It is possible to design and build a house that is so well insulated and ventilated and which by design takes full advantage of solar gains ( i.e. passiv house ) that its requirement for a heat source is less than the min you are obliged to provide in renewables to satisfy b regs .

    Go figure .


  • Subscribers Posts: 42,312 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Hi sinnerboy

    Does this mean if you push your house to passive standard the conditions regarding renewables is relaxed? Or at least how much is it relaxed?

    it would be a very ignorant certifier / building control officer to demand part l compliance if supplied with a certification from the passiv haus institute...

    however, if teh build i snot certified to passive levels then it would be reasonable for a certifier / building control officer to demand part l compliance, even if it is counter productive and unwarranted


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭morning delight


    sinnerboy wrote:
    You would think so - but no .

    It is possible to design and build a house that is so well insulated and ventilated and which by design takes full advantage of solar gains ( i.e. passiv house ) that its requirement for a heat source is less than the min you are obliged to provide in renewables to satisfy b regs .

    Go figure .

    Hmmm, current policy then favours low energy builds with renewables rather than going all out for passive. Given the renewable technology available at the mo that means the grid is under more pressure with this route rather than encourging passiv haus certified build.
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    it would be a very ignorant certifier / building control officer to demand part l compliance if supplied with a certification from the passiv haus institute...

    however, if teh build i snot certified to passive levels then it would be reasonable for a certifier / building control officer to demand part l compliance, even if it is counter productive and unwarranted

    You're at the mercy of the particular certifier coming out to you then and from what I can gather it costs a bit to get the official certification!

    So over all from a strictly financial point of view, low energy build using renewables is the safe bet...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    Well 14 months on and solar thermal is proving the most popular . Can I ask folks to now take part here .

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055868850


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 651 ✭✭✭badgerhowlin


    Hi

    I’m going to be going with the wind turbine. I think far better than Solar.

    Think of it like this,(I know people tell me im WRONG with some stuff but I have never tried to be 100% correct)

    When do you need most light\heat
    WINTER.
    In the winter months you get very little sun a lot of wind
    You only get sun in the day times what 8-12 hours a day max, Wind can be blowing 24 hours,
    If you don’t use all your electric produced you SELL it. If you don’t use all your hot water you LOOSE it
    You can heat and light your house with the wind where as you can only heat you house with Solar Unless you go it the Solar PV then you can light your house too only in the day time, when you’re at work! Unless you have storage batteries

    The only problem I see in the wind is the cost but it’s a better trade off I think. I won’t be getting the turbine so I can sell my excess, that’s just a plus. I hope to be fairly self sufficient and not to have to buy much if any electric from the ESB


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭fclauson


    Just doing the pre-build DEAP

    So I need to get to the magic 10Kwh/M2
    Some of this is comming from my secondary heat sorce - a nice eco-friendly wood (only) burning stove

    But I am just under the magic 10 Kw

    So

    decrease the insulation
    which increases the demand from my heat sorce
    and increases my C02
    but I meet my renewable target

    Am I being missing something here - to reach I renewable target it in the above scenario means that I should decrease my insualtion

    Francis


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11 Rogue_art


    The Part L renewable requirement is 10kWh/m2/yr for Renewable energy heat (i.e. wood boiler, solar water heating etc.), but if you do it with Renewable Energy electricity (i.e. Wind Turbine or Solar PV), then the requirement is only 4kWh/m2/yr.
    You can also meet it with a combination of the two, but to put it into perspective a 200sq.m house (large by current economic climate standards), you could meet the Part L requirement for this house with Solar PV alone with a 1 kWp PV system.
    With the way PV prices have come down in the last year you could have a system of this size (installed and inc. VAT) for about €5 to €5.5k.
    Plus generate your own leccy! with no maintenance costs.


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