[Article] Music-swapping sites to be blocked by internet providers

towel401

Google would fit right in. they dont give two ****s about anyones privacy and actively support the censorship in China. less people using bittorrent is more people using youtoob and viewing their ads. they are in bed with the meeja industry, the government and they even use DRM on some things.

"Do no evil" is just something they use when it suits them.

Cabaal

ionix5891 wrote: »

whichever way the moderators here spin it (they seem to be the only ones in favor of this strangely) this is censorship that is not grounded in law

Where exactly did I say it was ok for any ISP to block sites? (please give me the link to the post if I have)
I've simply outlined that if its covered by Eircom T&C's they are doing nothing wrong, if it is not then they will need to change their T&C's...I am not taking sides on site blocking.

Don't assume you know my personal view on this subject,
I suggest you re-read
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59142375&postcount=9
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59145202&postcount=10
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59145390&postcount=11

Iago

ionix5891 wrote: »

yes I find it quite ironic

any ways Eircom should have had the balls and followed this in court, or raised it to the EU courts level where they either would have won or the IRMA would have backed down

they got bullied into a corner and its gonna end up hurting consumers (thats us) I fail to understand how that can be *good*

I know this is going to get lost in the righteous (or otherwise) indignation but what everyone seems to miss here is that eircom and any other ISP will only be implementing this once a court approves it.

eircom have said that they won't challenge this in court, but it's still up to IRMA to prove a case for blocking sites based on copyright and Irish law for each and every website they want to have blocked. Otherwise the judge will just throw it out.

it's not like IRMA can just say, "ok we want you to block X site now, do it"

ionix5891

Iago wrote: »

I know this is going to get lost in the righteous (or otherwise) indignation but what everyone seems to miss here is that eircom and any other ISP will only be implementing this once a court approves it.

eircom have said that they won't challenge this in court, but it's still up to IRMA to prove a case for blocking sites based on copyright and Irish law for each and every website they want to have blocked. Otherwise the judge will just throw it out.

it's not like IRMA can just say, "ok we want you to block X site now, do it"

so have thepiratebay being ruled to be illegal in Ireland? and if not so why are Eircom wanting to block them

it's not like IRMA can just say, "ok we want you to block X site now, do it"

thats unfortunately exactly how its gonna happen

Red Alert

Essentially it will be however, because the ISP's would like the reduction in bandwidth.

What about a site shutdown day like this:
http://creativefreedom.org.nz/blackout-homepage.html

Presumably Eamonn Ryan (my local TD) who's the minister for communications mentioned allowing this type of thing when he was going for election but I surely don't remember it.

Iago

ionix5891 wrote: »

so have thepiratebay being ruled to be illegal in Ireland? and if not so why are Eircom wanting to block them

eircom don't want to block them, or at least according to the article they don't.

IRMA believe that thepiratebay is an illegal site. They will have to build a case to prove this, then they take that to a court and the judge agrees with them or doesn't.

If the judge agrees and places a court order then eircom and every other ISP will have no choice but to abide by that order.

All that eircom seem to have said is that if IRMA put that case together then eircom won't lodge an objection before the case is heard. Their objection wouldn't have been on behalf of the site anyway, but rather on the whole "ISP is just a conduit and is therefore not responsible for policing file sharing on it's network" which clearly they should be.

Again your second edited in point is wrong. IRMA will have to build a case that a judge will approve rather than just pick sites at random.

Cabaal

Ok lads,
Last warning on this..bans are going out to next person who does it
No linking to The Pirate Bay and no giving out the web address, this has been made extrenely clear by admins and mods on boards.

Using its name is fine buit NO LINKING

Next person to do it gets banned, I'm not stopping you from discussing it as long as it remains within boards.ie/forum rules

ionix5891

this all started with Eircom's 3 strike thingie (pointing at their TOS was the excuse given by some)

now Eircom are gonna start blocking sites

whats next?

as i said in older thread this is bad very badTM and things are getting progressively worse

I dont like my freedoms being eroded by a bunch of racketeers :mad:

Iago wrote: »

eircom don't want to block them, or at least according to the article they don't.

IRMA believe that thepiratebay is an illegal site. They will have to build a case to prove this, then they take that to a court and the judge agrees with them or doesn't.

If the judge agrees and places a court order then eircom and every other ISP will have no choice but to abide by that order.

All that eircom seem to have said is that if IRMA put that case together then eircom won't lodge an objection before the case is heard. Their objection wouldn't have been on behalf of the site anyway, but rather on the whole "ISP is just a conduit and is therefore not responsible for policing file sharing on it's network" which clearly they should be.

Again your second edited in point is wrong. IRMA will have to build a case that a judge will approve rather than just pick sites at random.

thank you for well written post

but you are wrong on one thing. Eircom waved their whole "ISP is just a conduit and is therefore not responsible for policing file sharing on it's network" with their previous 3 strikes thingie, they left themselves wide open for attack and what's worse is their dominant position in the market is gonna affect other ISPs whether they like it or not

.

CiaranC

Cabaal wrote: »

ISP's, The media, other websites the vast majority of users on pretty much any site...there's a very good reason why if you link to it on boards.ie you get banned.

Bottom line is goto The Pirate Bay today and list all the legal linked torrents versus illegal...come back to me with the numbers

Last time I checked, TPB doesnt contain anything illegal. It only hosts and indexes user uploaded .torrent files.

If TPB is illegal, then so is google. Are Eircom going to block google next?

Apologists for dispicable behaviour like this make me nauseous.

Cabaal

CiaranC wrote: »

Last time I checked, TPB doesnt contain anything illegal. It only hosts and indexes user uploaded .torrent files.

If TPB is illegal, then so is google. Are Eircom going to block google next?

Apologists for dispicable behaviour like this make me nauseous.

I never said they did,

re-read

Bottom line is goto The Pirate Bay today and list all the legal linked torrents versus illegal...come back to me with the numbers

So what number of legal linked torrents did you find versus illegal/copyright when you checked?

Google indexes servers it can connect to, The Pirate Bay allows users to upload content in much the same way as bebo or youtube, bebo and youtube have been seen to be active in removing content but TPB have not and have put no checks or blocks in place....and again illegal linked content far outways legal..that is very clear

ionix5891

CiaranC wrote: »

Last time I checked, TPB doesnt contain anything illegal. It only hosts and indexes user uploaded .torrent files.

If TPB is illegal, then so is google. Are Eircom going to block google next?

Apologists for dispicable behaviour like this make me nauseous.

not only that but after the trial last week all the legal allegations against TPB are about to be dropped or were dropped in a court of law

anyways more of out EU buddies are begining to smell this for what it is http://torrentfreak.com/norwegian-minister-wants-to-legalize-file-sharing-090222/

Earlier this week the music industry, headed by the IFPI, gave Norway’s largest Internet provider an ultimatum; block access to The Pirate Bay within 14 days or we will take you to court.

ISPs have criticized IFPI’s move, and Pirate Bay’s spokesman Peter Sunde said that “the crazy people behind IFPI should be stopped.” Bård Vegar Solhjell, Minister of Education and Research in Norway sides with Peter in this assessment, as he vouches for the legalization of file-sharing.

what we see are bullying tactics by media cartels trying to scare alot of ISPs into believing something is illegal

.

Sparks

CiaranC wrote: »

Apologists for dispicable behaviour like this make me nauseous.

I get a similar sensation from people who call others apologists because they point out what the law actually says rather than what it would be rather nice for it to say.

CiaranC

Cabaal wrote: »

I never said they did,

re-read


So what number of legal linked torrents did you find versus illegal/copyright when you checked?

What is an illegal torrent? Can you point me to some law which defines how a torrent file is/can be illegal?

ionix5891

Sparks wrote: »

I get a similar sensation from people who call others apologists because they point out what the law actually says rather than what it would be rather nice for it to say.

please point to the law that says linking to stuff is illegal or any precedent law case for that matter

once again, the burden of proof is on the prosecution

just to show how rediculos this whole thing is, i can buy an advert on this page and point it to any file, will boards out of sudden become an illegal entity for linking? OMG!!

.

CiaranC

Cabaal wrote:

Google indexes servers it can connect to, The Pirate Bay allows users to upload content

http://www.google.com/addurl/

TPB have not and have put no checks or blocks in place

Where is the legal requirement for TPB to put checks or blocks in place for user content?

Cabaal

CiaranC wrote: »

What is an illegal torrent? Can you point me to some law which defines how a torrent file is/can be illegal?

Not referring to a law here, simply if the torrent allows you to download copyright material then its breaches your ISP's T&C's....this apply's to every ISP.

If your not worried about this and think its ok then write a letter to Eircom saying how upset you are about them blocking the pirate bay and how you won't be able to download the latest movies (slumdog for example...might be a good idea to list a few so they know) or episodes of heroes on it...surely you shouldn't have a problem with this since there's no such thing as an illegal torrent......right?

Sparks

ionix5891 wrote: »

please point to the law that says linking to stuff is illegal

This isn't sweden. We don't have their laws with regard to copyright protection, torrent files and internet publication. If you linked to or hosted a torrent file here which facilitated the breaking of copyright, you'd be done (or more accurately, boards.ie would be done). There's no value judgement in saying that's how it is, it's just, well, how it is.
Get it changed, by all means!

just to show how rediculos this whole thing is, i can buy an advert on this page and point it to any file, will boards out of sudden become an illegal entity for linking? OMG!!
.

No, Google would be; and they'd be covered because you'd have signed a contract with them saying you wouldn't do that, and that'd be in the T&C so they'd be covered. So boards.ie would be in the clear, google would be in the clear, and only your rear end would be in the fire.

Sparks

CiaranC wrote: »

Where is the legal requirement for TPB to put checks or blocks in place for user content?

There is none, not yet at least, BECAUSE THEY'RE IN SWEDEN!.
*ahem*
'scuse the shoutyness. It's just, well, really lad. boards.ie is in Ireland and follows Irish law, TPB is in Sweden and follows swedish law. That's rather... basic, don't you think?

Cabaal

Sparks wrote: »

That's rather... basic, don't you think?

Its pretty clear to me.
Irish laws not same as Swedish...very clear

CiaranC

Cabaal wrote:

Not referring to a law here, simply if the torrent allows you to download copyright material then its breaches your ISP's T&C's....this apply's to every ISP.

I fail to see how a .torrent file hosted on a server in Sweden violates my T&C's?

My concern is with a corporate body, in league with an ISP, deciding what we can or cannot access on the internet. There is no legal basis for denying anyone access to this website. First it will be filesharing sites. Whats next? Are we in the EU or in China here?

Cabaal

CiaranC wrote: »

I fail to see how a .torrent file hosted on a server in Sweden violates my T&C's?

Ok so,
Be sure to give the full name of the torrent file when you write your letter to eircom :rolleyes:

I'm not saying torrents are illegal I am saying if it links to copyright material then it is...you can twist it any way you want but if you download say Taken via a torrent file then you are very clearly breaking the law and your ISP's T&C's

My concern is with a corporate body, in league with an ISP, deciding what we can or cannot access on the internet. There is no legal basis for denying anyone access to this website. First it will be filesharing sites. Whats next? Are we in the EU or in China here?

Fair enough, if you have concerns about censorship/privacy then you'd need to be looking at something like the EFF which I already suggested on the first page of this thread

towel401

CiaranC wrote: »

Are we in the EU or in China here?

at least in china they only censor anti-government ****e not the pirate bay.

towel401

Cabaal wrote: »

Fair enough, if you have concerns about censorship/privacy then you'd need to be looking at something like the EFF which I already suggested on the first page of this thread

i think those guys are just for america. and they busy enough over there..

Sparks

CiaranC wrote: »

I fail to see how a .torrent file hosted on a server in Sweden violates my T&C's?

It doesn't. It's your link to it on a server that's not in Sweden that violates them.

Sparks

towel401 wrote: »

i think those guys are just for america. and they busy enough over there..

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=286105

PaddyTheNth

Cabaal wrote: »

So what number of legal linked torrents did you find versus illegal/copyright when you checked?

Astonishingly, according to Sunde Kolmisoppi, 80% of the torrents hosted on TPB are legal.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/02/pirate-bay-survey-says-that-80-of-our-torrents-are-legal.ars

It's hilarious how badly the prosecution seem to have prepared for the ongoing trial in Sweden. They've had to drop a large chunk of the charges because they didn't consider how DHT would make it hard to prove that TPB was the actual point of contact between peers :rolleyes:

towel401

Sparks wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=286105

wow thats an old thread.

but srsly, i think its too late for all the quiet, peaceful and legal forms of protest and something more serious is needed.

Cabaal

towel401 wrote: »

i think those guys are just for america. and they busy enough over there..

There is similar organizations in Europe/Ireland...contact them.

Mathiasb

Being a Swedish guy living in Ireland, I'm glad I use NTL (UPC/Chelol). However, they have the same deal with the Irish MAFIAA equiv., so it's probably just a matter of time before they bend over like Eircom has done.

This doesn't bother my "internet activities" at all though, if they use DNS blocking just use another DNS server (like OpenDNS), if they block by IP you just use a proxy to get your torrents, and if they block torrent traffic, use SCP, encrypted FTP transfers, DirectConnect or whatever. Nothing is stopping filesharing, especially not something stupid like this.

What if NTL is going to do the exact same thing, but is holding for a few weeks to make Eircom's customers switch to them thinking there's no censorship? Smart move.

Who gets to decide what content is going to be censored? Before you know it they will censor "dangerous content" as well (anti goverment stuff) etc.

Hi Irish people, welcome to Ire^H^H^H China!

Cabaal

PaddyTheNth wrote: »

Astonishingly, according to Sunde Kolmisoppi, 80% of the torrents hosted on TPB are legal.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/02/pirate-bay-survey-says-that-80-of-our-torrents-are-legal.ars

It's hilarious how badly the prosecution seem to have prepared for the ongoing trial in Sweden. They've had to drop a large chunk of the charges because they didn't consider how DHT would make it hard to prove that TPB was the actual point of contact between peers :rolleyes:

A survey carried out by The Pirate Bay eh?
I';d suggest you do your own....goto the search box enter nothing and press search...take say the first 5 pages of torrents and tell me how many are legal v illegal linked content

I certainly count a hell of lot more illegal linked torrents then legal