Adobe InDesign

sink

Hey, I think this is the best place for this - I am going for an interview for a position that requires the use of Adobe Indesign. Ive never used it before - is it similar to photoshop? I was wondering is it a difficult programme to learn by yourself? Is there many tutorials or any good ones out there? Thanks.

Carpaydiem

InDesign is not the same as photoshopt.

PS = image creation & manipulation

ID = page layout / typographic

If you've ever used Quark Express or any other page layout software you should be able to get the hang of it.

InDesign basics are easy enough to grasp, however to use it well requires good knowledge of colours, typography, layout & design techniques, print requirements etc etc

You can pick up the basics using online guides, but maybe you should go on a course.

There are some basic courses at www.bigwavemediatraining.ie I went there some time ago and recommend them highly.

Brimmy

It's not hard to get the hang of although it can be slightly tedious. Nothing similar to photoshop though.

As the poster above says you'd probably be better off checking out a course but there are a few free tutorials knocking about that you can google.

Hank_Scorpio

It's nothing like photoshop in any manner.

If the job you are going for requires you know InDesign then don't apply for it. You'll only give yourself a bad reputation and have a bad rapport with your new bosses. I say this to be kind, not to be cruel.

InDesign requires all the things mentioned above. But it also needs the user to be familiar with the tools.

I suggest that you tell them at interview stage that you've never used InDesign before but you're a quick learner and if you have a strong portfolio they will hire you. I'm just saying to be honest.

If you want to learn InDesign then I suggest what the others have, go on a course from bigwavemedia, newhorizons or iact and get the basic Level 1 in InDesign.

You should also purchase this book to get you going:

RealWorld InDesign (CS2, CS3 and CS4) are available, I suggest you but the appropriate book for the version of software that you are going to be using.

This book gives instructions on 99% off all that is in InDesign, it's very comprehensive and if you're stuck there's a good Index to help you find the topic you need to look up.

A few websites you should visit for extra tutorials, blogs etc.

www.indesignsecrets.com (a comprehensive database of problems and solutions for beginners to advanced)

www.theindesigner.com (a comprehensive video data base fully searchable)

And some online videos training from www.lynda.com

I also suggest you download a free 30 day trial from www.adobe.com on the version of software that you'll be using.

Use it everyday, afterwork for 2 - 3 hours. Try to recreate leaflets/booklets etc. that you see coming through the post, restaraunt menus, business cards, etc. Do everything in InDesign from now on in your own time. Get used the program and learn it inside out.

After you've finished Level 1 of the training from some of the people already mentioned, you should go onto level 2 of the course too.


I taught myself InDesign, using the above methods. But I had an advantage because I moved from Quark Xpress (a similar layout application).

And 3 years later I'm still learning new things everyday.

The only way you will keep up is by using the software and learning to use it correctly.

But don't con yourself into thinking that you can walk in off the street and start using InDesign. It's just not that simple.

Not only do you have to pick up the basics of Indesign, but you don't know how to colour manage your documents, you don't know the right settings for PDF for different outputs. You won't know how to use master pages (parent and child master pages), paragraph styles (parent and child styles), character styles (parent and child styles), object styles, table styles. You won't know how to add pages, you won't know what margins to leave for a booklet, you know how to set a document up to have a spine.

All which seems trivial, but people struggle with these basic things everyday in InDesign because they don't know how to use the program.

Imagine doing a 3,200 page (which I do often) and then someone says I want all the headings to be 6pt bigger. If you haven't set up and used paragraphs styles it would take you months to change them all by hand.

On top of all that you dont' know how to make comprehensive changes using Find and using GREP.

Here's a 90 odd page document on how to setup your files for exporting to PDF, and exporting to PDF is 90 pages long - that's just the final aspect of doing your design, there's another million things you need to do before you get to that stage.

http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/cs4/articles/cs4_printguide/cs4printguide_low.pdf


Honestly, if you've never used a layout program before then get yourself on a course. But don't con yourself or your future boss by saying that you can do InDesign. Because you can't.

sink

Hi all thank you for your feed back - some good suggestions there which i will investigate. The job i am going for has suggested that I have a knowledge of indesign. I have no intention of claiming to be able to use the programme. I just was interested to know if it is relatively easy to get into yourself. The problem i have is that it is an immediate start if i get the job and i want to be able to study it while i am working without having to take time off etc. I am coming from a design related background - i use autocad a lot and i also have the ecdl so i am pretty computer literate. Thank you all for your help so far!

Hank_Scorpio

sink wrote: »

Hi all thank you for your feed back - some good suggestions there which i will investigate. The job i am going for has suggested that I have a knowledge of indesign. I have no intention of claiming to be able to use the programme. I just was interested to know if it is relatively easy to get into yourself. The problem i have is that it is an immediate start if i get the job and i want to be able to study it while i am working without having to take time off etc. I am coming from a design related background - i use autocad a lot and i also have the ecdl so i am pretty computer literate. Thank you all for your help so far!

Having an ECDL has no bearing on whether you can use Adobe software.

It's an adventure and a journey to learn any application. If it's an immediate start then I suggest you bury yourself in the application now. Get a trial of it for 30 days, get some www.lynda.com into you and start designing and making up flyers and business cards and brochures, booklets, etc. as much as you can. In work and at home.

mood

I'm also trying to learn InDesign. I'm a graphic designer and know photoshop, illustrator and quark very well. How long would you think it will take me to learn it? I'm recently made redundant so need to upskill fast. Also need to learn some webdesign skill. Any tips on where to start?

Hank_Scorpio

mood wrote: »

I'm also trying to learn InDesign. I'm a graphic designer and know photoshop, illustrator and quark very well. How long would you think it will take me to learn it? I'm recently made redundant so need to upskill fast. Also need to learn some webdesign skill. Any tips on where to start?

You do a course with IACT or something for Webmaster Level 1 - which is introduction to xhtml, css, flash, fireworks, dreamweaver.

If you're good at Quark you can pick up Indeisgn quickly. It took me about a year to fully familiarise myself with it and get into the nooks and crannys for specialist print jobs.

The best place to learn would be to check out David Blatners Quark to InDesign migration free video on www.lynda.com (I think).

If you get Real World InDesign (it comes in different versions CS4 version is out soon) it's a book also by David Blatner and Olav Kvern and it's quite a neat and full information book.

Check out Michael Murphy on theindesigner.com for online videos of tips and tricks.

Check out David Blattner and Anne-Marie Concepcion website www.indesignsecrets.com

Check out and learn how to use scripts with Steve Wareham www.stevewareham.com and Javascripting InDeign with Dave Saunders on his blog www.jsid.blogspot.com

You don't need to learn how to write the code, but using them are quite easy in indesign, you'll figure it out

If you have any questions on InDesign I am fully capable of answering most of them.

If you need training then let me know, i'm not an authorised abode instructor or Adobe Certified Expert but I've over 10 years experience and 3 of those are working with InDesign.

You can check out my blog (mostly answers from forum questions from forums that I frequent) www.doozler.blogspot.com

mood

Thanks for that. I'm getting a hang of basic InDesign already so hopefully I'll be up to spead soon. I'll look up that web design course but I'll not living in a city so might be hard to find. Thanks anyway.

Mikia

sink wrote: »

Hi all thank you for your feed back - some good suggestions there which i will investigate. The job i am going for has suggested that I have a knowledge of indesign. I have no intention of claiming to be able to use the programme. I just was interested to know if it is relatively easy to get into yourself. The problem i have is that it is an immediate start if i get the job and i want to be able to study it while i am working without having to take time off etc. I am coming from a design related background - i use autocad a lot and i also have the ecdl so i am pretty computer literate. Thank you all for your help so far!

I hate when people who can basically use the computer and done ecdl think they can operate design programs no bother. If you have no knowledge of InDesing or Quark then don't apply for that job. I'd say even if you will you won't have much chance of getting it when against people who have any minimal knowledge of this program, not talking about graduates of graphic design courses.

mood

I've heard of builders applying for jobs in specific areas of health care!!! We'll see even more of this in the current climate!

Hank_Scorpio

The Original Postee has said they come from an autocad background. So they would be familar with using layers, text, styles, etc. And then using Illustrator would be an advantage.

But it goes way deeper than knowing how to put a piece of text on the page. It's not even getting into page layout and design basics for printing, which InDesign is geared to do.

There's a whole deep knowledge of prepress that is required, knowing how lithographic printing works, how postscript works and how a RIP works is a huge part of desigining for print.

You can learn everything about indesign but if you don't learn about prepress, colour theory, postscript, etc. then you'll always be lost.

There are evening courses available in some places. I recommend familiarising yourself with InDesign and with the whole printing process in general.

It's not just about using Indesign.

rockbeer

What Hank said.

Plus, there's a world of difference between knowing the rudiments of how to use a design package and being able to produce a deccent piece of design work.

They used to say about punk that it allowed everyone to pick up a guitar. But most of them shouldn't have bothered.

The same is true of design software. Everyone thinks they can be a designer now. But you only have to lok at the dreadful work being knocked out all over the place by the clueless to see that most shouldn't bother. Either learn how to do something properly or leave it to those who already know.

Pixelcraft

Exactly, remember these programs are simply tools. Knowing them inside out doesn't mean you know design

sink

Hi OP here - I see I seem to have ruffled a few feathers. I was asking for some help and to you who did help with suggestions thank you very much! I think some of you are quick to jump to conclusions - I am trained in design not specifically graphic design however. The job I was going for was a position as an office administrator - it involved compiling brochures with the use of indesign!! I wasnt attempting to be a graphic designer - I wouldnt dare ! Anyhow I was shortlisted but didnt get the job - and it wasnt due to my lack of design credentials - its tough out there at the moment! I also mentioned i had the ecdl in attempt to prove Im not a complete IT nunce I didnt think it would actually mean I could open adobe and start producing masterpieces! :rolleyes:

Pixelcraft

Hi Sink, sorry I wasnt saying that in relation to you, just as a statement on its own merit, sorry for going off topic.

rockbeer

sink wrote: »

Hi OP here - I see I seem to have ruffled a few feathers... I also mentioned i had the ecdl in attempt to prove Im not a complete IT nunce I didnt think it would actually mean I could open adobe and start producing masterpieces! :rolleyes:

In fairness, op, you did say you intended trying to pull a fast one by going for a job that required skills you don't have, the implication being that you expected people to support you in this. This showed a fairly large degree of disrespect not only for the tool (Indesign) but for those of us who actually know something about it. Are you honestly surprised to have met with a cool response?

It's a bit late to start claiming integrity for yourself now.

I wonder what sort of reception I'd get over on the motors forum if I said I was going for a mechanics job on the basis of having a driving license? If I started asking how hard it might be to learn to use a spanner, I would expect to have it pointed out to me that it's not so much the spanner I need to know about but the car.

Hank_Scorpio

I hope the posts here have been insightful to the OP.

It's not that the OP ruffled any feathers. It's been pointed out that yeh you can learn InDesign. But that's 1/10 of what you need to know. There's the whole back end of printing that you need to know too.

For example,

I'm fairly proficient with Dreamweaver but I wouldn't say I'm a web designer. Web design is one end of what is needed, layout and structure are good aspects of my design work. But building websites isn't all about the layout, it's the back end of it where the javascript, actionscript, php, sql etc. all happen behind the scenes that make a good website work.

So I wouldn't go to the Dreamweaver forum and say "listen lads, a job going and need to use dreamweaver, I can use indesign and illustrator, what books can I get?"

The answer would be "there's a 600 page guide to javascript for beginners, and there's a 1,200 page book for SQL for beginners".

sadsacks

In response to all who answered sink(negatively) you are all idiots get a grip on yourself what are ya? 2 years old? they were simply asking for some advice and you all jumped on them what ever happened to a little empathy........ Im a nurse and i was thinking of a change in career into graphic design if they allow idiots in it would be easier than i thought.

Hank_Scorpio

sadsacks wrote: »

In response to all who answered sink(negatively) you are all idiots get a grip on yourself what are ya? 2 years old? they were simply asking for some advice and you all jumped on them what ever happened to a little empathy........ Im a nurse and i was thinking of a change in career into graphic design if they allow idiots in it would be easier than i thought.

How would you like it if you someone came up to you and said they saw a job offered to be nurse. Then they revealed that they have basic first aid training, but think they could wing their way in the nursing job. What books and websites would you recommend them?

Now I think you got the wrong end of it.

You want to move into graphic design, that's fine, but you want to do the training and learn it and get a job and move up the ranks. The OP has a design background and wants to take on a job that requires more knowledge than they have. There are resources out there to help the OP, but the resources are not enough to wing your way in a job if you don't have previous print design experience or knowledge.

sadsacks

Hank_Scorpio wrote: »

How would you like it if you someone came up to you and said they saw a job offered to be nurse. Then they revealed that they have basic first aid training, but think they could wing their way in the nursing job. What books and websites would you recommend them?

Now i have to say there is a slight difference is looking after sick people and LEARNING A COMPUTER PROGRAM but either way i would always encourage people instead of running them down! and not once did 'sink' mention they would wing there way into the job it was an OFFICE ADMIN job not graphics design try reading peoples questions before ranting off at them....they asked a basic question and expected a little advice....where do you get off!

Hank_Scorpio

sadsacks wrote: »

Now i have to say there is a slight difference is looking after sick people and LEARNING A COMPUTER PROGRAM but either way i would always encourage people instead of running them down! and not once did 'sink' mention they would wing there way into the job it was an OFFICE ADMIN job not graphics design try reading peoples questions before ranting off at them....they asked a basic question and expected a little advice....where do you get off!

Well firstly, the admission to it being an Admin job came after a lot of posts already on the subject.

And I've been extremely helpful in offering advice and resources, but you don't seem to have read those posts.

I got off at the fact that it's not just learning a computer program.

You can't become a print designer by learning just InDesign (what about photoshop, illustrator, acrobat, pitstop pro, preps, corel draw, doing basic impositions, troubleshooting rip problems et al) - you have to learn how printing works and how RIPs work and how to get your design from screen to paper. Just because the design work is up on the screen in InDesign it doesn't mean that's what will output on paper.

There's a plethora of issues going from what you see on screen to what you see on paper. It's about knowing how to defeat those issues under pressure and if something goes wrong you have to instantly know how to fix it - not fumble around a text book or on-line videos and hope for the best.

Because you can't do that when you have print run of 1,000,000 milk cartons to do, you can't risk messing that up, because it's a mult-million Euro job. If you mess that up you're gone. The same would be said for 50,000 books or covers for a magazine. If you miss deadlines, make mistakes, etc. it affects everyone, the printing company who have to reprint, the customer who has to wait another 5 days for a print turn-around, the companies reputation.

Yeh, looking after sick people is a hard job and it's a priceless job to have, you can't put a price on helping the sick, it's a noble profession.

But you can put a price on a multi-million job, and you can put a price on not being able to pay your mortgage because you didn't know how to make the print job ready for printing presses.

You mess it up and you won't get a job in the field again.

That's where I get off and that's where I'm coming from.

sadsacks

well i must say it was not really you i was aiming my thoughts toward it was 'rockbeer' who was being quite rude and that just drives me crazy so im sorry if you felt i was belittling your job i was not i just think when people ask advice there is a nice way to reply:rolleyes: anyway nice chatting with you and i am sure sink will be happy with your comments

Hank_Scorpio

sadsacks wrote: »

well i must say it was not really you i was aiming my thoughts toward it was 'rockbeer' who was being quite rude and that just drives me crazy so im sorry if you felt i was belittling your job i was not i just think when people ask advice there is a nice way to reply:rolleyes: anyway nice chatting with you and i am sure sink will be happy with your comments

Ditto.

rockbeer

sadsacks wrote: »

you are all idiots get a grip on yourself what are ya? 2 years old?

Yeah, and you accuse me of being rude. Right. :rolleyes:

sadsacks

rockbeer wrote: »

Yeah, and you accuse me of being rude. Right. :rolleyes:

yeah! well you are and at least others have the decency to explain themselves whats your excuse

rockbeer

No excuses, no explanations.

sadsacks

rockbeer wrote: »

No excuses, no explanations.

your just an Ignoramus well good glad we got that cleared up:D

rockbeer

You should do well on boards, sadsacks, having started hurling insults around after less than a week and a whole seven posts. I look forward to a long and sparky interaction with you (if you don't get yourself banned first that is).

Hank_Scorpio

Not being rude or anything. But sadsacks is a nurse and not a graphic designer?
As far as I know sadsacks doesn't even use indesign, I don't know why someone who doesn't know graphic design or indesign give an opinion about it and then call other people ignorant.

I mean that is classic irony innit:P

sadsacks

well to be fair i didnt realise you were all a little click :oand people who just have a general interest - and not a career- in graphic design were not allowed voice an opinion! my humblest apologies for upsetting all you "actual" graphic designers out there. :mad:i will head off now and find nice people who welcome people of all kinds and aren't afraid of a bit of banter next time i have an opion i will clear it with you guys first bye good lick and be well:cool:

Hank_Scorpio

sadsacks wrote: »

well to be fair i didnt realise you were all a little click :oand people who just have a general interest - and not a career- in graphic design were not allowed voice an opinion! my humblest apologies for upsetting all you "actual" graphic designers out there. :mad:i will head off now and find nice people who welcome people of all kinds and aren't afraid of a bit of banter next time i have an opion i will clear it with you guys first bye good lick and be well:cool:

Ah don't be like that, I just thought it was funny that someone who isn't a graphic designer would call a graphic designer "ignorant" in a forum about graphic design.

I even put a cute ":P" in there to let you know i was joking.

sadsacks

Hank_Scorpio wrote: »

Ah don't be like that, I just thought it was funny that someone who isn't a graphic designer would call a graphic designer "ignorant" in a forum about graphic design.

I even put a cute ":P" in there to let you know i was joking.

ah how sweet;) i just meant ignorant to peoples needs i wasnt really trying to insult anyone anyway enough of that.......hello and thanks for welcoming me to this forum:cool: