Trade Unions shut the hell up!!!!

swingking

I was reading through this mornings Irish times and the amound of trade union propaganda was unreal. Those huge spreads in the paper ; taking up half the page, just looks bad!

I'm sick of reading about pure moaners complaining about getting pay cuts. Shut the hell up, you have your job, other people are happy to take a pay cut just to keep their jobs.

/rant

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

swingking wrote: »

I was reading through this mornings Irish times and the amound of trade union propaganda was unreal. Those huge spreads in the paper ; taking up half the page, just looks bad!

I'm sick of reading about pure moaners complaining about getting pay cuts. Shut the hell up, you have your job, other people are happy to take a pay cut just to keep their jobs.

/rant

If you were 'reading' then you'd know that the bus strike isn't actually about pay cuts, it's about people genuinely being laid-off.

homerjay2005

trade unions are part of the reason why jobs are being lost in the first place. shower of c*nts.

Mark200

Yeah trade unions are really just making things worse. Yes it's unfortunate that people have to lose their jobs but if Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann can't afford to pay them, what are they supposed to do?!?

And ****ing civil servants too.

lb163

Trade Unions are the reason Dublin Bus/Bus Eireann are making such hugh loses because of outdated union practices. Its time the Unions were told to cop on and suffer like the rest of us. Think of the damage this strike will do to the Irish Business and workers

Smart Bug

homerjay2005 wrote: »

trade unions are part of the reason why jobs are being lost in the first place. shower of c*nts.

Em, no. Trade unions are the reason why people keep thier jobs when employers try to sack them unfairly etc. Trade unions are why we have such favourable working conditions in most sectors. Trade unions are the reason we have so many days holidays, sick days etc.

Don't understand all this union bashing.

Hard Larry

deytukRjabs!

BnA

lb163 wrote: »

Trade Unions are the reason Dublin Bus/Bus Eireann are making such hugh loses because of outdated union practices. Its time the Unions were told to cop on and suffer like the rest of us. Think of the damage this strike will do to the Irish Business and workers

I agree, 200%

Degsy

Smart Bug wrote: »

Don't understand all this union bashing.

Its because assholes who are out to stir up trouble dont know what they're talking about.

The banks and the developers ****ed up the country,the unions are trying to keep it from falling apart completely.

Blame the unions,not the stupidity of the governments,the dishonesty of the banks and teh greed of the developers.

Mark200

Smart Bug wrote: »

Trade unions are the reason why people keep thier jobs when employers try to sack them unfairly etc.

You can bring them to court if you are unfairly dismissed. There's no need for unions in that case.

These people are Dublin Bus are not being unfairly dismissed, they are being let go because they no longer have the money to pay for their wages. If companies aren't able to cut costs without their entire work force walking out, then the companies are going to go bankrupt and instead of 100 or 200 people losing their jobs, they're all going to lose their jobs.

rossie1977

Degsy wrote: »

Its because assholes who are out to stir up trouble dont know what they're talking about.

The banks and the developers ****ed up the country,the unions are trying to keep it from falling apart completely.

Blame the unions,not the stupidity of the governments,the dishonesty of the banks and teh greed of the developers.

in fairness the banks and developers didn't lobby to increase wages time and time and time again so that we as a country became totally uncompetitive in which case the irish and foreign multinationals relocated to likes of india/poland et al

homerjay2005

Smart Bug wrote: »

Em, no. Trade unions are the reason why people keep thier jobs when employers try to sack them unfairly etc. Trade unions are why we have such favourable working conditions in most sectors. Trade unions are the reason we have so many days holidays, sick days etc.

Don't understand all this union bashing.

you have this attitude that is a reason why this country is going down the toilet. employees have too many rights in this country. people think a job is something that they can turn up to, do what they want and get away with it cos the union is behind them.

you see, people have been over paid for jobs that they dont deserve. house prices went up too fast, cost of living went up too fast, everything went up too fast. people borrowed more and more money that they couldnt afford to pay back. so the banks are f*cked now too.

unions have done more harm than good.

companies are coming to the end of their 10 year sweet payment off the goverment and f*cking off. i work for a massive employer in this country, a multinational. i spent 4 months in other countries setting up new business last year, jobs that if we werent so expensive here, would have stayed here. the difference in employing people here and those other countries is astounding. this country is heading down the swany due to greed. i have a job that im well paid for and that is down to hard work and going to college and getting a qualification. not down to some union who dont give a damn about me only themselves.

you see the big report a few weeks ago.sick days cost the country billions and only 15-20% are genuine. you think that is correct?

Mark200

Degsy wrote: »

Its because assholes who are out to stir up trouble dont know what they're talking about.

The banks and the developers ****ed up the country,the unions are trying to keep it from falling apart completely.

Blame the unions,not the stupidity of the governments,the dishonesty of the banks and teh greed of the developers.

We all know who caused this. No one is blaming civil servants or bus drivers. But just going to the streets outside the Dail and protesting isn't going to get us out of this mess.

Degsy

rossie1977 wrote: »

in fairness the banks and developers didn't lobby to increase wages time and time and time again so that we as a country became totally uncompetitive in which case the irish and foreign multinationals relocated to likes of india/poland et al

No but the banks and the developers created an artificially overpriced housing market that "drove the economy" in that THEY made money and everybody else borrowed heavily to be apart of it all.

Wacko

Yeah bloody trade unions bunch of wasters representing workers trying to keep them in jobs and making sure people have enough money to pay bills and mortgages, lets blame them not the greedy shower of ***** who got us into this mess, and let's make sure we turn on the civil service, if they are such great jobs why wasn't everyone trying to get into them when times were good................................ I propose that we the people of Ireland promptly march to Jim Larkin's statue, tear it down (preferably in a Saddam Hussein statue type manner) and replace it with one of William Martin Murphy laughing gleefully at what Ireland has become.

Degsy

Mark200 wrote: »

We all know who caused this. No one is blaming civil servants or bus drivers. But just going to the streets outside the Dail and protesting isn't going to get us out of this mess.

The proetests are about the lack of fairness in imposing these levies and cuts.
The average worker on average wages pays far,far more than the people at the top making huge money.
The rich have always been benificiaries from Fiana fail policies and the vested interests that destroyed the economy are being bailed out at the ordinary taxpayers' expense.

Tom65

Could be that both side are wrong...and right? Unions have made sure employees have rights etc, but they've gone too far, and between themselves and a lack of funding, Dublin Bus has become a really poor service? Meanwhile, the banks were doing their bit, too.


Maybe we all just f*cked up?

Boskowski

There's two sides to it.

Some of the union people are living in fairytale land and some of the unionized workers have reached agreements that are plain ridiculous and damaging to their companies while the actual workers take advantage.

But for the most of it employers would wipe the floors with us all if there weren't any unions. Unions are there for a reason and their sheer existence is something that past generations have fought very hard for.

So again generalizations don't work.

Degsy

Tom65 wrote: »

Could be that both side are wrong...and right? Unions have made sure employees have rights etc, but they've gone too far, and between themselves and a lack of funding, Dublin Bus has become a really poor service? Meanwhile, the banks were doing their bit, too.


Maybe we all just f*cked up?

Dublin bus are a state service.
The state wants to save money so they're axing jobs and routes.
They also have commitments to bail out the construction industry and the banking sector and THAT is why they need the money,NOT because the bus services are uneconomical.

i'm all for trade union action to combat redundancies but not for pay cuts.. there's too many people losing their jobs for other people to be complaining about pay.

cornbb

Unions have a good reason to exist, they have protected workers rights in the past and still do to an extent (although I think they are nowhere near as important as they once were) but they need to cop the f*ck on and realise that every worker in the country will be making sacrifices, ranging from tax increases and pension levies to mass redundancies.

Obviously all reasonable efforts should be made to save someone's job, but when widespread job losses are unavoidable across the country and the prospect of saving the jobs in question is unrealistic, then going on strike is not going to help anyone, its just a highly damaging type of tantrum.

Degsy

Deleted User wrote: »

i'm all for trade union action to combat redundancies but not for pay cuts.. there's too many people losing their jobs for other people to be complaining about pay.

Its not the pay cuts per se.I
ts the inequity of the pay cuts,the rich are completely untouched(as usual) and the cash is being used to bail out the construction sector and the banks that caused the mess.
If there are going to be pay cuts,let them affect everybody equally,not just the middle and low-earners in the public sector.

anonymous_joe

Degsy wrote: »

Its not the pay cuts per se.I
ts the inequity of the pay cuts,the rich are completely untouched(as usual) and the cash is being used to bail out the construction sector and the banks that caused the mess.
If there are going to be pay cuts,let them affect everybody equally,not just the middle and low-earners in the public sector.

THere's a load of bullshít.

The Trade Unions came into existence because when they were born workers were abused horrendously. However, let's ignore the past, and talk about the present.

Right now we are in a serious financial crisis. A bubble burst, and now we deal with the fall out, things will normalise in a few years, but up until then we suffer, so we have to take steps.

One of the most obvious factors to take into a count is price inflation across the board. Ireland has the highest minimum wage in Europe (one of at least) and amongst the highest GDP/GNP per head and amongst the highest house prices. All those factors are linked.

Let's play economics - there are 100 jobs available in company X. The company can pay up to €20 an hour and still make a profit. Anything under that is supernormal.

Now let's say the economy begins to suffer, and you can now only pay €15 an hour and make a profit.

Without regulation: let's say we have 200 people seeking these jobs. Those that can live under €15 p/h will offer to do the job for less, until eventually 100 people have the jobs.

Now add in a union that suggests you cannot work for less than €18, a pre-crisis price - suddenly the company cannot take on 100 staff, so 100 people don't have jobs.

The Unions are defending their patches like tigers. Sadly, in some cases, that's going to have a negative effect on the prospect of jobs.

It's becoming increasingly likely that cost of living etc will fall in real terms. If that happens, minimum wage needs to fall too. Simply because a job for less money is better than no job.

If anyone, unions, politicians stop that happening, we could all suffer.

DELL moved to Poland because the workers are paid less.

Piste

The thing is, everyone agrees that money needs to come from somewhere. Nobody wants money to come out of their pocket though, everyong thinks they're special, that they should be exempt.

I have no problem with lower to middle paid earners being taxed harder, as long as the people who've been doing dodgy dealings are hit as well. What a lot of these people so keen to protest don't seem to realise is even if the top earners are fined for dodgy dealings and are taxed a bit more it isn't goin to save the country. Either way everyone is going to have to pull their weight and this attitude of "oh not me, I'm special" is really annoying tbh.

Degsy

Piste wrote: »

I have no problem with lower to middle paid earners being taxed harder, as long as the people who've been doing dodgy dealings are hit as well.

Not just people doing dodgy dealings..the higest earners in society pay tax at the same rate as the middle earners.A building firm that recently made 19 million in profit payed just over 2000 euro in tax.How is this equitable?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Never mind fined, I think they should be sacked, banned from holding such a position again, and if illegal activity has taken place, taken to court.

If that were to happen, I think people would be a little more tolerant of paycuts and tax increases.

ben bedlam

The trade unions are all talk, no action. Just look at the upcoming strikes and work stoppages. Theres no way they would dare strike on a weekday, that would cause too much inconvenience. Thats why they propose to strike on a Saturday- owch, they really will cause a strir.

anonymous_joe

Degsy wrote: »

Not just people doing dodgy dealings..the higest earners in society pay tax at the same rate as the middle earners.A building form that recently made 19 million in profit payed just opver 2000 eeuro in tax.How is this equitable?

That's a company rather than a person.

High-earning individuals pay more than lower- or medium-income earners.

Piste

So you think there should be three tax bands instead of two? It's an interesting idea, and I wouldn't be completely opposed to it as lot as it was not much over the 41% (or is it 42%?) paid on the higher tax band and it was only on the top top earners, not just generally wealthy people.

My basic idea is everyone should chip in and I have no sympathy for people crying "not me! not me!".

Genghiz Cohen

I have yet to disagree with Degsy.
If you want my opinion (and you will, since I'm awesome) read his posts.

Degsy

Piste wrote: »

So you think there should be three tax bands instead of two? It's an interesting idea, and I wouldn't be completely opposed to it as lot as it was not much over the 41% (or is it 42%?) paid on the higher tax band and it was only on the top top earners, not just generally wealthy people.

A third tax band for the top earners has been proposed many times over the past ten years,it was judged to be necessary should the arse ever fall out of the economy(as it has now).
Fianna Fail and its cronies always opposed it as they beleive that being a high earner is sinecure that some people should enjoy at the expense of the ordinary worker.
And look...where are the poor TDs?
Where are the poor company dierctors?
Barristers?
The government has kept certain sections of the legal profession in work with investigations and tribunals for which they are payed bonuses in excess of a million euro per anum.
The symbiotic relationship between politicians and the wealthy is a racket that benifits everybody bvbut the taxpayer.

twinytwo

Smart Bug wrote: »

Em, no. Trade unions are the reason why people keep thier jobs when employers try to sack them unfairly etc. Trade unions are why we have such favourable working conditions in most sectors. Trade unions are the reason we have so many days holidays, sick days etc.

Don't understand all this union bashing.

They are also the reason why schools cant get rid of ****e teachers, or crappy council workers etc etc... it swings both ways

Degsy

twinytwo wrote: »

They are also the reason why schools cant get rid of ****e teachers, or crappy council workers etc etc... it swings both ways

A bit of class snobbery showing there perhaps?
The single most inept group of workers are politicians and they are paying thier wages out of everybody else's pockets.

anonymous_joe

Degsy wrote: »

A bit of class snobbery showing there perhaps?
The single most inept group of workers are politicians and they are paying thier wages out of everybody else's pockets.

How is wanting shít teachers gone class snobbery?

beth-lou

I have a friend who works in the Civil Service.
He pulls in €700 a week. His job takes him an hour to do.
The rest of the day is spent reading books, surfing the net and other time wasting activities.
He is paid to do a full days work. He is always home by 2 every day.
Everyone in there is doing the same thing. They are protected by the unions and so they can't be fired. He won't do anything other than his specified job, which I've already said takes him an hour to do. The unions have made sure that he can just say no, even though he is sitting on his arse all day. He tells me that half of them in there go to the pub for the day.

The unions have their place, and have done some great work, but they have also put in place some really negative practices that have bred lazy, ineffectual, overpaid people in jobs that can't be fired and are allowed to continue to get away with doing swwet f all at the tax payers expense.

At the moment, what they are proposing, is going toalso cost the tax payer, that's you and me, and at what other cost? Less money for health and infastructure etc. And for what? To keep people that should be fired in jobs, when there are plenty of hard working people out there who could easily to the job of three of them.

Now I'm not saying all civil servants are like this, but there are a considerable amount of them, and the unions while they maybe protecting them, are bleeding the taxpayer.

beth-lou

Degsy wrote: »

A bit of class snobbery showing there perhaps?
The single most inept group of workers are politicians and they are paying thier wages out of everybody else's pockets.

Huh? How'd you make that out?
Wanting to get rid of ****ty teachers etc has nothing to do with class snobbery. It's about bleedin' time we could.

Smart Bug

beth-lou wrote: »

I have a friend who works in the Civil Service.
He pulls in €700 a week. His job takes him an hour to do.
The rest of the day is spent reading books, surfing the net and other time wasting activities.
He is paid to do a full days work. He is always home by 2 every day.
Everyone in there is doing the same thing. They are protected by the unions and so they can't be fired. He won't do anything other than his specified job, which I've already said takes him an hour to do. The unions have made sure that he can just say no, even though he is sitting on his arse all day. He tells me that half of them in there go to the pub for the day.

The unions have their place, and have done some great work, but they have also put in place some really negative practices that have bred lazy, ineffectual, overpaid people in jobs that can't be fired and are allowed to continue to get away with doing swwet f all at the tax payers expense.

At the moment, what they are proposing, is going toalso cost the tax payer, that's you and me, and at what other cost? Less money for health and infastructure etc. And for what? To keep people that should be fired in jobs, when there are plenty of hard working people out there who could easily to the job of three of them.

Now I'm not saying all civil servants are like this, but there are a considerable amount of them, and the unions while they maybe protecting them, are bleeding the taxpayer.

Sorry, but this does smell of bull. Grade & Department please.

wasper

Mark200 wrote: »

Yeah trade unions are really just making things worse. Yes it's unfortunate that people have to lose their jobs but if Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann can't afford to pay them, what are they supposed to do?!?

And ****ing civil servants too.

They can afford to bail out Banks to the tune of billions of euros, but to help with a 30 million euro lose incurred by Dublin buses is way too much.
You must realise that with the recession more people can't afford to drive & the public transport is the only way to travel.

beth-lou

I'm afraid it's true.
Hard to believe I know, but there you go.
That's all thanks to the unions.

And I'm not giving you his grade and dept. He's my friend for ffs.

jim o doom

swingking wrote: »

I was reading through this mornings Irish times and the amound of trade union propaganda was unreal. Those huge spreads in the paper ; taking up half the page, just looks bad!

I'm sick of reading about pure moaners complaining about getting pay cuts. Shut the hell up, you have your job, other people are happy to take a pay cut just to keep their jobs.

/rant

Actually you're RIGHT! I am glad someone has posted this same issue AGAIN, we didn't get it in all those other threads, but it finally makes sense!

but listen, me and everyone else agrees - we're all gonna shut up now, stop complaining, bend over, grab our ankles & take it in the a$$, because you are sick of reading about it in the paper.

All I needed was perspective from someone who CLEARLY understands the issues.

Degsy

beth-lou wrote: »

I'm afraid it's true.
Hard to believe I know, but there you go.
That's all thanks to the unions.

And I'm not giving you his grade and dept. He's my friend for ffs.

You're telling lies.

Or he's telling you lies and you believe him.

colly10

Degsy wrote: »

They also have commitments to bail out the construction industry and the banking sector and THAT is why they need the money,NOT because the bus services are uneconomical.

Hang on, it is estimated that Dublin Bus will make an estimated loss of 100m this year if cuts are not made. What company would accept a loss of 100m?

Making a 100 million loss IS uneconomical. They have commitments to bail out the banks because they have **** all choice, if they don't things would get much worse. We are not the only country bailing out banks and were not doing it just cause Cowen happens to like people who work for banks

ixoy

wasper wrote: »

They can afford to bail out Banks to the tune of billions of euros, but to help with a 30 million euro lose incurred by Dublin buses is way too much.

Isn't that part of our problem though: we keep chucking money at things instead of trying to make them more effecient. Rather than ask "Can we save 30m by making some reasonable changes", we're told to cough up.

Degsy

beth-lou wrote: »

Huh? How'd you make that out?
Wanting to get rid of ****ty teachers etc has nothing to do with class snobbery. It's about bleedin' time we could.

What "****ty teachers"?
What are they doing wrong,apart from getting sued because some cretin wants to look like a girl?

beth-lou

Degsy wrote: »

What "****ty teachers"?
What are they doing wrong,apart from getting sued because some cretin wants to look like a girl?

You're absolutely deluded.
Bless.

beth-lou

Degsy wrote: »

You're telling lies.

Or he's telling you lies and you believe him.

Yeah I'm telling lies.:rolleyes:
And what is my motivation?

It's the truth, as nasty as it is. I don't lie or make stuff up just to prove a point.

Degsy

colly10 wrote: »

Hang on, it is estimated that Dublin Bus will make an estimated loss of 100m this year if cuts are not made. What company would accept a loss of 100m?

Making a 100 million loss IS uneconomical. They have commitments to bail out the banks because they have **** all choice, if they don't things would get much worse. We are not the only country bailing out banks and were not doing it just cause Cowen happens to like people who work for banks

Its not a company,its a stae body designed to provide transport for people who cant afford cars.Its always operated at a loss..always.
now,with regard to the 100 million its losing per year,the country could easily shave that off its foreign aid package or the state-sponsored appeals process for unsuccesful asylum seekers.
Taking buses from people and sacking bus workers is a disgrace.

oreilly21

Degsy wrote: »

You're telling lies.

Or he's telling you lies and you believe him.

i have to agree, there is no department i have ever worked in that would stand that sort of conduct.
only the past 10 years the civil service in this country has modernised significantly and its work ethics have also.

Rob_l

beth-lou wrote: »

I have a friend who works in the Civil Service.


Everyone in there is doing the same thing.



Now I'm not saying all civil servants are like this, but .............................

Im not racist but........................

jim o doom

beth-lou wrote: »

You're absolutely deluded.
Bless.

This from a person who posts a story, not only with no evidence whatsoever, but so far fetched it REALLY is a stretch to believe; to back up their own ideas about what's going on?

aw, bless.

beth-lou

Degsy wrote: »

Its not a company,its a stae body designed to provide transport for people who cant afford cars.Its always operated at a loss..always.
now,with regard to the 100 million its losing per year,the country could easily shave that off its foreign aid package or the state-sponsored appeals process for unsuccesful asylum seekers.
Taking buses from people and sacking bus workers is a disgrace.

They can do that too.
The point is, every industry is effected. Every industry.
Tell me, why should public sector workers be immune.
Give me a good a valid reason, because everyone else is taking paycuts or losing their jobs.

Why should the public sector be immune to cutting its cloth according to its measure?

And this is the last time I am going to say this about the story and my friend, it is true, and his father has worked there all his life and he does the same thing day in day out.