Revolution in the air?

ninebeanrows

So i was walking home tonight and noticed all the signs and posters beginning to be erected about protests etc. Old women giving out 'FAT CAT' leaflets.

I couldn't help but feeling that revolution was in the air, anyone else think the next few weeks and months we'll see widespread protests and unrest across the country as the revolution starts and we get the FF crooks out of power?

Mhmm...weetabix

And then??

falipo

Weathercheck wrote: »

I couldn't help but feeling that revolution was in the air, anyone else think the next few weeks and months we'll see widespread protests and unrest across the country as the revolution starts and we get the FF crooks out of power?

We put them in there...

Melange

Weathercheck wrote: »

So i was walking home tonight and noticed all the signs and posters beginning to be erected about protests etc. Old women giving out 'FAT CAT' leaflets.

I couldn't help but feeling that revolution was in the air, anyone else think the next few weeks and months we'll see widespread protests and unrest across the country as the revolution starts and we get the FF crooks out of power?

The Irish people are inherently conservative. We don't, for the most part, really *do* revolutions. Things would have to be far worse than they are now for such a thing to happen.

ninebeanrows

Mhmm...weetabix wrote: »

And then??

Nothing like fresh leadership and hope to start getting people moving again, people are depressed and angry.

They need a fresh approach, everybody is willing to take sacrifices, but they want to see justice and a sense that we are moving in a positive way.

Holsten

No, will never happen.

ninebeanrows

Holsten wrote: »

No, will never happen.

When ya cant get money out of your bank or are paying 50% interest on your loans and there is 25% unemployment i think people will :pac:

Melange

Weathercheck wrote: »

When ya cant get money out of your bank or are paying 50% interest on your loans and there is 25% unemployment i think people will :pac:

But that's well in excess of even the most gloomy predictions!

Nah, no need to buy a shotgun and 200 tins of baked beans. Anarchy ain't happening anytime soon.

paddyb125

No chance

youcrazyjesus!

I'm certainly no economist but I think a new government, a far-reaching and expansive recovery package, new faces telling us how they were going to go about fixing problems would do wonders for sentiment. For example some companies I know of, who were at the time doing fine, ended their future recruitment plans because of the downturn, the downturn they weren't at the time experiencing. Simply because of all the bad news that they were hearing on the radio. Surely this compounds the problem.

Unions and people facing levys and cuts would accept taking them in the short term if it was coming from Richard Bruton rather than from another FF
robot Minister. The downside is having Enda Kenny as Taoiseach but I think we'll grin and bear it.

If people had a reason to believe things would get better in the medium to long term things would start moving again - prospective first time buyers (you bastards who have secure jobs) would want to get in before prices started rising again, people would get their building jobs done before builders and tradesmen became a luxury again, people might start buying cars, companies might start making plans and manoeuvre themselves to take advantage of better times.

I know it's not that simple and probably wishful thinking but there is probably some truth to that line of thinking.

It's a pity we don't have recall elections here.

Mhmm...weetabix

Weathercheck wrote: »

Nothing like fresh leadership and hope to start getting people moving again, people are depressed and angry.

They need a fresh approach, everybody is willing to take sacrifices, but they want to see justice and a sense that we are moving in a positive way.

Yeah, that's true but when people realise that until things around the world start to improve it's not going to improve on our small island. I still havent heard any substantial plans coming from Fine Gael that will get us out of this and as for Labour, Eamon Gilmore last I heard is denying the recession is even happening (this may or may not be true)

Holsten

I really don't know of anything that would really get any reaction from the majority of the public in this country.

ninebeanrows

Melange wrote: »

But that's well in excess of even the most gloomy predictions!

Nah, no need to buy a shotgun and 200 tins of baked beans. Anarchy ain't happening anytime soon.

Unlikely to be that extreme but no impossible.

That would require Ireland to default on its debt and the IMF to move into the country, our Unemployment figure will likely reach 20% at present predictions.

Chance of Ireland defaulting at the moment is around 25%

ninebeanrows

Mhmm...weetabix wrote: »

Yeah, that's true but when people realise that until things around the world start to improve it's not going to improve on our small island. I still havent heard any substantial plans coming from Fine Gael that will get us out of this and as for Labour, Eamon Gilmore last I heard is denying the recession is even happening (this may or may not be true)

Obviously is a blatant lie tbh, you think he's a fool?

He's the most capable leader.

Mhmm...weetabix

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

I'm certainly no economist but I think a new government, a far-reaching and expansive recovery package, new faces telling us how they were going to go about fixing problems would do wonders for sentiment. For example some companies I know of, who were at the time doing fine, ended their future recruitment plans because of the downturn, the downturn they weren't at the time experiencing. Simply because of all the bad news that they were hearing on the radio. Surely this compounds the problem.

Unions and people facing levys and cuts would accept taking them in the short term if it was coming from Richard Bruton rather than from another FF
robot Minister. The downside is having Enda Kenny as Taoiseach but I think we'll grin and bear it.

If people had a reason to believe things would get better in the medium to long term things would start moving again - prospective first time buyers (you bastards who have secure jobs) would want to get in before prices started rising again, people would get their building jobs done before builders and tradesmen became a luxury again, people might start buying cars, companies might start making plans and manoeuvre themselves to take advantage of better times.

I know it's not that simple and probably wishful thinking but there is probably some truth to that line of thinking.

It's a pity we don't have recall elections here.

You sound freakishly like my dad, apart from he goes 1 further in making sure kenny steps aside and have Bruton take the hot seat and steer us through the recession.

mikom

Weathercheck wrote: »

So i was walking home tonight and noticed all the signs and posters beginning to be erected about protests etc.

Pity you didn't notice the three suspended domains in your sig.
Times are getting hard. :pac::pac:

ninebeanrows

mikom wrote: »

Pity you didn't notice the three suspended domains in your sig.
Times are getting hard. :pac::pac:

hey! leave it out! i still own the most important one just not arsed at the moment:D

Melange

Weathercheck wrote: »

Unlikely to be that extreme but no impossible.

That would require Ireland to default on its debt and the IMF to move into the country, our Unemployment figure will likely reach 20% at present predictions.

Chance of Ireland defaulting at the moment is around 25%

I don't mean to be a pedantic stickler, but could you provide a source for the 25% default statistic? Last I heard the chance of default was nothing as bad as that.

Mhmm...weetabix

Weathercheck wrote: »

Obviously is a blatant lie tbh, you think he's a fool?

He's the most capable leader.

It was a joke btw.
Last piece I read from him is going back about 2-3 weeks now and he hadn't offered any plan for economic recovery, just mentioned that we needed a fast track a stimulus plan to create jobs and get people back working. Atleast put forward hard fast proposals instead of telling us what we all already know. I've actually stopped listening to recession politics lately (the last week) as I have alot of things going on in my personal life so if anything has changed point me in the direction of their proposals

ninebeanrows

Melange wrote: »

I don't mean to be a pedantic stickler, but could you provide a source for the 25% default statistic? Last I heard the chance of default was nothing as bad as that.

The CDS spreads give the best forecast for Ireland defaulting.

We are now at around 380.. which i do believe calculates as a 25% risk, Iceland is at 1000, we are 2nd behind them, Iceland has defaulted on its debt.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Ireland-default-fears-rise/story.aspx?guid={56269F08-B818-4D69-A704-D73D2E8DE43E}

http://seekingalpha.com/article/120532-the-irish-troubles-g7-needs-to-act-now

http://acrossthecurve.com/?p=3048

Darragh29

Couldn't agree more OP.

Can someone tell me how this can be possible???

(1) Cowen comes out and gives us a "guarantee" tonight that nobody in the cabinet is involved in the "golden circle" scandal...

(2) In the same breath, he says he doesn't know who the 10 people who make up the "golden circle", actually are...

How on earth can these two statements possibly be reconciled!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I'm protesting this Saturday, to get rid of these USELESS APES who I wouldn't ask to organise a p*ss up in a Heineken factory...

994

Nothing will change because Irish people simply lack any real political ideas. Most people's views boil down to "more good things, fewer bad things!"

punchdrunk

994 wrote: »

Nothing will change because Irish people simply lack any real political ideas. Most people's views boil down to "more good things, fewer bad things!"

you say that like it's a bad thing?

Cow Moolester

I'm sorry but would it not really put off multi-nation companies and foreign investors if all this did happen here?

youcrazyjesus!

Cow Moolester wrote: »

I'm sorry but would it not really put off multi-nation companies and foreign investors if all this did happen here?

Stalin could be in charge for all they care, as long as low tax rates and grants are maintained.

Duiske

Anyone interested in a new campaign of protests against the protesters ?
If they keep up all this pressure, the greens will jump ship and then who have we got ? Enda "I have a plan but its a secret" Kenny, thats who.

Darragh29

Cow Moolester wrote: »

I'm sorry but would it not really put off multi-nation companies and foreign investors if all this did happen here?

Yeah, sure you wouldn't be Irish at all if you didn't worry about offending the visitors. These same people are now laughing at us on the basis of what is unfolding here, if a fraction of what we are seeing here was happening back in their own country, their operations would be on hold while people took to the streets... Stand up and be counted for something while there is still a country left to salvage.

I'm starting to think my Anglican ancestors had the right idea when they thought we should have been governed by a foreign government, because we are clearly unable to even organise a vibrator throwing competition outside an Ann Summers shop in this country.

j1smithy

Darragh29 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more OP.

Can someone tell me how this can be possible???

(1) Cowen comes out and gives us a "guarantee" tonight that nobody in the cabinet is involved in the "golden circle" scandal...

(2) In the same breath, he says he doesn't know who the 10 people who make up the "golden circle", actually are...

How on earth can these two statements possibly be reconciled!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I'm protesting this Saturday, to get rid of these USELESS APES who I wouldn't ask to organise a p*ss up in a Heineken factory...

You sir obviously haven't a clue... You cannot name people in an ongoing investigation without compromising it.

Did it ever occur to you that he could have asked his cabinet were they involved in loans/dealings with Anglo? I'm guessing hes putting his trust in his cabinet with their answers.

j1smithy

Weathercheck wrote: »

Nothing like fresh leadership and hope to start getting people moving again, people are depressed and angry.

They need a fresh approach, everybody is willing to take sacrifices, but they want to see justice and a sense that we are moving in a positive way.

Have you been living under a rock for the past few days? Everyone willing to make sacrifices my arse. Busses going on all out strike, other unions balloting industrial action and every interest group in the country bring Dublin city centre to a halt mid day everyday.

I wish everyone was willing to pull together, however "Mé feinism" seems to be the order of the day, and you know what, it disgusts me.

Darragh29

j1smithy wrote: »

You sir obviously haven't a clue... You cannot name people in an ongoing investigation without compromising it.

Absolute rubbish. He could have said that he was aware of the names of the people involved but was not prepared to divulge them this side of the investigation being complete. Instead he has spoken though the two sides of his idiotic gob and made a fool out of himself and the rest of us...

j1smithy wrote: »

Did it ever occur to you that he could have asked his cabinet were they involved in loans/dealings with Anglo? I'm guessing hes putting his trust in his cabinet with their answers.

Of course he could have, but could he have fully satisfied himself that none of them were involved without knowing the names of these ten "Golden People" who actually are involved??? No he couldn't. Also he hasn't denied that some extremely wealthy FF backbenchers who just happened to have the wrong c*ck in their gob for the last 20 odd years which kept them on the back benches, is not associated with this scandal...

Darragh29

j1smithy wrote: »

Have you been living under a rock for the past few days? Everyone willing to make sacrifices my arse. Busses going on all out strike, other unions balloting industrial action and every interest group in the country bring Dublin city centre to a halt mid day everyday.

I wish everyone was willing to pull together, however "Mé feinism" seems to be the order of the day, and you know what, it disgusts me.

Me feinism me arse. What is happening now is healthy. Bring the country to a halt, this is what is required. Our politcal system is constipated, and we have to collectively brace ourselves and push hard and suffer the short term pain, while the veins on our faces bulge, to get rid of this government, so that our long term better interests are protected...

dsmythy

Mhmm...weetabix wrote: »

You sound freakishly like my dad, apart from he goes 1 further in making sure kenny steps aside and have Bruton take the hot seat and steer us through the recession.

Mhmm...weetabix, I am your father.

A modern Irish revolution is replacing one establishment political party with another very similar establishment political party. viva la non-difference!

j1smithy

Darragh29 wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. He could have said that he was aware of the names of the people involved but was not prepared to divulge them this side of the investigation being complete. Instead he has spoken though the two sides of his idiotic gob and made a fool out of himself and the rest of us...



Of course he could have, but could he have fully satisfied himself that none of them were involved without knowing the names of these ten "Golden People" who actually are involved??? No he couldn't. Also he hasn't denied that some extremely wealthy FF backbenchers who just happened to have the wrong c*ck in their gob for the last 20 odd years which kept them on the back benches, is not associated with this scandal...

Right so if he found out and decided to tell us, what exactly would it achieve? Well it would further deminish confidence in the banks because there would be no chance of those people being held accountable for their actions.

No he can't be certain, but I said he has put his trust in his cabinet to tell the truth. Time will tell if he has been lied to, however the consequences of not owning up now for a minister would be catastrophic fo the entire government and they all know that.

j1smithy

Darragh29 wrote: »

Me feinism me arse. What is happening now is healthy. Bring the country to a halt, this is what is required. Our politcal system is constipated, and we have to collectively brace ourselves and push hard and suffer the short term pain, while the veins on our faces bulge, to get rid of this government, so that our long term better interests are protected...

Healthy? Are you for real??? Yes get all the banking scandals dealt with in the appriopariate fashion, lets get the corrupt out, lets put the fraudsters away. However striking and protesting about cutbacks that are incrediably necessary is not healthy, on the contrary its counter productive. It is Mé feinism, all the unions are interested in is the take home pay of their members and to hell with the rest of us.

Darragh29

j1smithy wrote: »

Right so if he found out and decided to tell us, what exactly would it achieve? Well it would further deminish confidence in the banks because there would be no chance of those people being held accountable for their actions.

No he can't be certain, but I said he has put his trust in his cabinet to tell the truth. Time will tell if he has been lied to, however the consequences of not owning up now for a minister would be catastrophic fo the entire government and they all know that.

We need to get to the bottom of this corruption, IMMEDIATELY. We can get it done in a week or a year. If we continue to drip feed corruption stories to the world for another year, we are doomed. If we take a mature and unprecedented approach to this, we can get the worst behind us, IMMEDIATELY. We are a laughing stock of the whole earthly world right now, to call us the wild west of banking now is to give us undue credit. Right now, we are the Phillipinian Pattaya of the world.

Why can we not have a new approach right now??? Because it would appear that the corruption is also within the politcal system and it would appear that the politicans and the bankers and developers are all in cahoots.

If we have the facts, we can make our own decisions but not until then. People who have made no mistakes have nothing to fear from the truth.

Darragh29

j1smithy wrote: »

Healthy? Are you for real??? Yes get all the banking scandals dealt with in the appriopariate fashion, lets get the corrupt out, lets put the fraudsters away. However striking and protesting about cutbacks that are incrediably necessary is not healthy, on the contrary its counter productive. It is Mé feinism, all the unions are interested in is the take home pay of their members and to hell with the rest of us.

You envisage that the ambulance man driving around tonight in Tallaght or the nurse in A & E in St. James is game ball for hardship while at the same time, we have 2 government ministers who take a private jet to Texas at a cost to the rest of us of 130K plus and don't even come back with a result, are you insane??? We have a sitting MINISTER who has cost us over 50,000,000 Euro for E-Voting machines that Robert Mugabe wouldn't buy, and he's still there laughing away at us, after claiming for an 80K Euro Olympics junket, still claiming unvouched expenses, still riding every taxpayer in the country.

We have TD's STILL claiming UNVOUCHED expenses in their job and yet the man who gets up at 6AM to clean O' Connell Street is asked to shoulder the burden for the country???

I am a private sector worker and the idea of unvouched expenses to me is simply illegal. If I don't have receipt, I don't get a refund and sometimes even if I have a receipt, I still can't claim so I am out of pocket!

DublinWriter

Trumpton Riots - Half Man Half Biscuit

Unemployments rising In the Chigley end of town,
And it's spreading like pneumonia doesn't look like going down.
There's trouble at the fire station someone's had the sack,
And the lads are going to launch a scheme to get rid of Captain Flak.

Tell PC McGarry to get himself a mate,
And arm themselves with CS gas - they're going to be out late.
We've had cant conformism since 1966,
And now subversions in the air in the shape of flying bricks.

Chorus:
Someone get a message through to Captain Snort
That they better start assembling the boys from the fort.
And keep Mrs. Honeyman right out of sight,
'Cos there's gonna be riot down in Trumpton Tonight.

All this aristocracy has really got to stop'
We could overthrow the surgery and kidnap Dr Mopp.
The Chippy Minton Socialists could storm the market square,
And make plans to assassinate our aristocratic mayor!

Windy Miller leads his Basque like corngrinders to war,
With windmill sails and bombs with nails they smash the town hall door.
But Snorty and the boys arrive with one big erstwhile crew,
Whereupon they bring about a military coup.

j1smithy

Darragh29 wrote: »

We need to get to the bottom of this corruption, IMMEDIATELY. We can get it done in a week or a year. If we continue to drip feed corruption stories to the world for another year, we are doomed. If we take a mature and unprecedented approach to this, we can get the worst behind us, IMMEDIATELY. We are a laughing stock of the whole earthly world right now, to call us the wild west of banking now is to give us undue credit. Right now, we are the Phillipinian Pattaya of the world.

Why can we not have a new approach right now??? Because it would appear that the corruption is also within the politcal system and it would appear that the politicans and the bankers and developers are all in cahoots.

If we have the facts, we can make our own decisions but not until then. People who have made no mistakes have nothing to fear from the truth.

I actually agree with you. It would be great if we had complete transparency in the banks and that everything was out in the open now. I too would like to see the investigations that are being undertaken to be finished post haste. Taking excerpts from these unfinished reports is dangerous though. I would prefer to have the whole report in my hand before drawing conclusions. But as I said, these investigations need to be completed quickly and also be thorough.

An election now would be a distraction for a month. There would be no leadership whatsoever for that period, leaving the new taioseach with the same + more problems. What I want to see is a government of national unity, however there are too many in Fine Gael who are enjoying seeing Fianna Fail in trouble, and are still bitter about what happened after the Tallaght strategy. There are many very talented people in the opposition and I think they could make a valuable contribution with new ideas... however petty party politics will stop this from becoming a reality, as there is no major ideological differences between the two main parties (really)

Darragh29

j1smithy wrote: »

I actually agree with you. It would be great if we had complete transparency in the banks and that everything was out in the open now. I too would like to see the investigations that are being undertaken to be finished post haste. Taking excerpts from these unfinished reports is dangerous though. I would prefer to have the whole report in my hand before drawing conclusions. But as I said, these investigations need to be completed quickly and also be thorough.

An election now would be a distraction for a month. There would be no leadership whatsoever for that period, leaving the new taioseach with the same + more problems. What I want to see is a government of national unity, however there are too many in Fine Gael who are enjoying seeing Fianna Fail in trouble, and are still bitter about what happened after the Tallaght strategy. There are many very talented people in the opposition and I think they could make a valuable contribution with new ideas... however petty party politics will stop this from becoming a reality, as there is no major ideological differences between the two main parties (really)

This is no longer a matter of ideological difference as you put it. This is now about a corrupt government that is obviously hiding something and making absolute retards of the wider constituency that makes up the electorate of country. There is no future with this government, they simply cannot be trusted, first of all, they drive us into this mess and now that we are in quicksand, they are still lying and avoiding and covering up and it's more of the same.

I don't care if the next government are incapable or incompetent, all I care is that they are not a corrupt government with 5 reverse gears and one broken forward gear. If they are capable and competent, this is an added bonus in my opinion. At least they won't be in cahoots with people who have wrecked our economy....

j1smithy

Darragh29 wrote: »

You envisage that the ambulance man driving around tonight in Tallaght or the nurse in A & E in St. James is game ball for hardship while at the same time, we have 2 government ministers who take a private jet to Texas at a cost to the rest of us of 130K plus and don't even come back with a result, are you insane??? We have a sitting MINISTER who has cost us over 50,000,000 Euro for E-Voting machines that Robert Mugabe wouldn't buy, and he's still there laughing away at us, after claiming for an 80K Euro Olympics junket, still claiming unvouched expenses, still riding every taxpayer in the country.

We have TD's STILL claiming UNVOUCHED expenses in their job and yet the man who gets up at 6AM to clean O' Connell Street is asked to shoulder the burden for the country???

I am a private sector worker and the idea of unvouched expenses to me is simply illegal. If I don't have receipt, I don't get a refund and sometimes even if I have a receipt, I still can't claim so I am out of pocket!

I never said I thought frivilous spending shouldn't be cut back... in fact it should.TD's on both sides of the house claim those expenses and theres nothing new about that. I would like to see them make the gesture scrapping expenses, and halving the number of deputies. The money saved would be small but highly symbolic and would show great solidarity with the ordinary folk in Ireland. However what you seem to be calling for is a more radical overhaul of the political system? What exactly would you like to see instead of the Dáil? We get the people we elect, so its our fault for the people sitting in Leinster house.

But yes the ambulance man, nurses, doctors, teachers, gardai, civil servents should all take their pay cut and be happy it isn't more. And if they don't like it let them find a job in the private sector... Then they'll be happy they have a guaranteed job.

K-9

Army Junta FTW.

Oh wait......................

ScumLord

The vast majority of the Irish didn't revolt the last time, British troops where welcomed off the boat with cups of tea before they marched into town. The Easter rising was used as an opportunity to loot all of Dublin major stores by the locals.

It would take a hell of a allot to get the Irish to revolt.

bluesguitar

I'm game ball! Viva la revolucion!!!!

Black Swan

Party time?

luckat

Actually if you read unbiased (un-embedded) on-the-spot reports of Easter 1916, the British troops were not welcomed, and the revolutionaries were cheered through the poor areas.

By the same token, if you eat those 200 cans of baked beans, don't let off a shotgun anywhere near you, unless you want to die in a suicide gas bomb.

Of course we need a new government, and we don't need a revolution. We need to vote in some honest and capable people who aren't tainted by association with the crooks of the banking and property development sectors.

SEPT 23 1989

We need this to explode on the streets and to see the corrupt FF gone from power forever,their bankers jailed and for the rest of the world to see that
the good people of the Republic cannot abide whats happening to our great country this needs to happen to clear the air and give us hope for our futures.