Big Three

brutusthebarber

Long time listener, first time caller,,

what are your views on targets for the big three?.. in terms of bodyweight.

I reckon squatting/benching/deadlifting your bodyweight is a decent start,

itsallaboutheL

You'd be pretty abnormal if all were the same kiddo!

Bodyweight bench is a pretty good start

BW and a half squat and and BW and 3/4s dead i spose

BobbyOLeary

This topic comes up a good bit, the standards I aim for are Rip's ones though people (weak people :pac:) have complained that they're too high

Rippetoe's Strength Standards

They're in pounds and each one is a 1 rep max.

What I'd like by the years end is

Squat 1.75xBW
Deadlift 2xBW
Bench 1.125xBW (Though this isn't really important to me, I'm more fond of the shoulder press, which I want to get to 0.875xBW)

WolfForager

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

This topic comes up a good bit, the standards I aim for are Rip's ones though people (weak people :pac:) have complained that they're too high

Rippetoe's Strength Standards

They're in pounds and each one is a 1 rep max.

What I'd like by the years end is

Squat 1.75xBW
Deadlift 2xBW
Bench 1.125xBW (Though this isn't really important to me, I'm more fond of the shoulder press, which I want to get to 0.875xBW)

Hmm, going by that chart i'm an "intermidiate". Quite accurate if ya ask me!

I only do Bench and Squat. I aim on to start Deadlifting during the summer when i can get to the gym 4 times a week instead of the 3 atm.

brutusthebarber

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

This topic comes up a good bit, the standards I aim for are Rip's ones though people (weak people :pac:) have complained that they're too high

Rippetoe's Strength Standards

They're in pounds and each one is a 1 rep max.

What I'd like by the years end is

Squat 1.75xBW
Deadlift 2xBW
Bench 1.125xBW (Though this isn't really important to me, I'm more fond of the shoulder press, which I want to get to 0.875xBW)

That chart is quality, Rates me at intermediate for most, for the deadlift i'm still a bit behind,

I'm goin to aim for,

Squat 1.5BW
Dead 2BW
Bench I just want to get to 120kg before y/e

I weigh 80kg so I think those are fair enough targets

DM-BM

brutusthebarber wrote: »

That chart is quality, Rates me at intermediate for most, for the deadlift i'm still a bit behind,

I'm goin to aim for,

Squat 1.5BW
Dead 2BW
Bench I just want to get to 120kg before y/e

I weigh 80kg so I think those are fair enough targets

So you want your squat to be the same as your bench?

Transform

bench/dip 300lbs
squat 400lbs
deadlift 500lbs

Most will never come close in the short term but long term its what i am gunning for.

Thing is this would really get readers focused e.g. "how do i get big, arms, chest, shoulders?"

Answer - Are you firstly benching your own body weight? etc as mentioned in previous posts

brutusthebarber

DM-BM wrote: »

So you want your squat to be the same as your bench?

If i squat 120 I'd be happy.. If I beat that then all the better.

I think the bench will be the hardest target.. At the min 100 is my max, and anythin over that is a fail.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if someone is doing all three at similar weights is that not good??

brutusthebarber

Transform wrote: »

bench/dip 300lbs
squat 400lbs
deadlift 500lbs

Most will never come close in the short term but long term its what i am gunning for.

Thing is this would really get readers focused e.g. "how do i get big, arms, chest, shoulders?"

Answer - Are you firstly benching your own body weight? etc as mentioned in previous posts

Yes to all three.. comfortable enough with bw at each.

Hanley

brutusthebarber wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but if someone is doing all three at similar weights is that not good??

Not at all... unless you've an AMAZINGLY good bench.

Pretty much everyone should deadlift more than they squat, and squat more than they bench.

brutusthebarber

Hanley wrote: »

Not at all... unless you've an AMAZINGLY good bench.

Pretty much everyone should deadlift more than they squat, and squat more than they bench.

Okay, so the squat target should be higher.. maybe 130/140?

BobbyOLeary

Thing is this would really get readers focused e.g. "how do i get big, arms, chest, shoulders?"

Answer - Are you firstly benching your own body weight? etc as mentioned in previous posts

So true. Reminds me of a friend of mine giving someone advice on how to get bigger forearms; "Get a double bodyweight deadlift then look at your forearms"

OP, really in terms of weight your lifts should be as follows

Deadlift > Squat > Bench Press > Shoulder Press

Having your bench and squat at the same weights just screams of imbalance. I know Rip's chart, and if you're 80kg an intermediate squat is 123kg. You don't want this to increase at all over the year?

Hanley

And sorry, has to be done;

brutusthebarber

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

So true. Reminds me of a friend of mine giving someone advice on how to get bigger forearms; "Get a double bodyweight deadlift then look at your forearms"

OP, really in terms of weight your lifts should be as follows

Deadlift > Squat > Bench Press > Shoulder Press

Having your bench and squat at the same weights just screams of imbalance. I know Rip's chart, and if you're 80kg an intermediate squat is 123kg. You don't want this to increase at all over the year?

Sure who wouldnt want it to increase?? I'm just lookin to set a target really.. Never actually set proper targets before

Deadlift > Squat > Bench Press > Shoulder Press

I'll use this as well.. thanks

cardio,shoot me

sorry im new to the forum, but why is there a big tree there

Nate--IRL--

I'm roughly 75kg with a 130kg Dead Lift, 110kg Squat, Dip Body Weight+30kg, 65kg DB Bench and 50kg Shoulder press.

Sound about right proportionally (except for the Bench press)?

Nate

BobbyOLeary

Sound about right proportionally (except for the Bench press)?

Shoulder press is a little low, about 5-7kg maybe. Otherwise its cool, I'd say you barbell bench press will be higher than 65kg. These all 1RM yeah?

Nate--IRL--

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

Shoulder press is a little low, about 5-7kg maybe. Otherwise its cool, I'd say you barbell bench press will be higher than 65kg. These all 1RM yeah?

No I never do 1RMs, its just inviting an injury, these are all 3 work sets of 8. I never do Barbell Benches, never got the technique right and don't like failing without a spotter, so I use the Dumbbells instead.

I think I'll pay more attention to the Shoulder presses so, thanks. I've managed 55kg for 3 sets once, and haven't been able to replicate it

BTW anybody got Rippetoe's table translated into KGs?

Nate

BobbyOLeary

No I never do 1RMs, its just inviting an injury....

Lol, I guess powerlifting and weightlifting comps are just inviting injury too?

Good numbers though dude. You won't find the table in kilos anywhere but in fairness you only need one row of figures for each exercise, just divide them all by 2.2046 and you'll get the kg value.

dioltas

Ya, a kg table would b sweet. it wreaks my head converting to pounds.

kevpants

Google can help. Type 100kg in lbs into google and it converts it for you. Very quick and easy.

As Transform said 300/400/500 is like a right of passage. In kgs that's 136/181/227.

The amount of people with a bench far more advanced than their squat or pull is unreal. To a layman it's the only strength test they understand. You never hear "How much you squat?" from the average joe. Probably because it's usually answered with "Awwhh I have this injury that prevents me from squatting" :rolleyes:

Don't write off the 1RM's Nate, you'll read arguments online against it but I think for skinny people a program like Westside with its emphasis on near maximal lifts produces great size and strength increases. As you get stronger I think the loads can get on top of you in terms of recovery and you have to adapt and train smarter but I think it's safe to assume most people aren't in that category.

Nate--IRL--

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

Lol, I guess powerlifting and weightlifting comps are just inviting injury too?

Hmm actually you have a point there, didn't think about it that way. It's just not something I'd feel comfortable doing. Maybe I'll read up on it a bit more.

Nate

accensi0n

I'm below novice on Rip's chart.

BobbyOLeary

I'm below novice on Rip's chart.

Starting Strength my friend. And milk, lots of milk.

Relevant

Hanley wrote: »

And sorry, has to be done;

MS2008

From the chart, is a 'press' a Barbell shoulder press? And is there a difference between a clean and a powerclean?

BobbyOLeary

Yes, a press is a standing barbell shoulder press with full extension and no movement of the knees or ankles. A power clean is a clean that is caught above parallel, i.e. you don't drop into a full front squat to receive the bar.

MS2008

Is a standing press any more difficult than a seated one?
Not following the difference between a clean and a power clean... Any videos or links??

BobbyOLeary

A standing press requires you to be able to balance the entire weight on your feet and requires more core stability than a seated one. Its a tougher but more rewarding exercise imo. My favorite lift actually.

Power Clean (excellent video actually)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TlbDQUWs0s

Full Squat Clean (Actually a full clean and jerk from the commonwealth games but just watch the first bit)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY19gHNkzGc

Roper

MS2008 wrote: »

Not following the difference between a clean and a power clean... Any videos or links??

A clean involves the weight explosively lifted from the floor, and "caught" by moving into a full front squat position underneath the bar, and then getting to a standing position with the weight still in the same position by standing up from the front squat.

A power clean is a less technical lift, involving the weight being moved from the floor in the same way, but caught at a point higher up, usually in a quarter squat with the knees only slightly bent. It is primarily used by older and less flexible lifters, or by people who want to add a power component to their workout without worrying about the technical elements of weightlifting.

BobbyOLeary

Barry phrased it slightly better than I did :pac:

Roper

But you added visual references, which makes you the Andy Warhol to my Lou Reed.

MS2008

Thanks Fellas.. I use power cleans (according to your description) occasionally in my training. Was never sure of the difference between them and normal cleans.

Transform

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

I'm roughly 75kg with a 130kg Dead Lift, 110kg Squat, Dip Body Weight+30kg, 65kg DB Bench and 50kg Shoulder press.

Sound about right proportionally (except for the Bench press)?

Nate

Exceptionally good numbers for your weight. What height are you?

Please tell me the db bench is combined weight of dumbbells and not 65kg dumbbells in each hand or i will have to cry into my dinner!!

Hanley

Transform wrote: »

Exceptionally good numbers for your weight. What height are you?

Please tell me the db bench is combined weight of dumbbells and not 65kg dumbbells in each hand or i will have to cry into my dinner!!

You and me both. Considering the shoulder press, I'd guess they're combined!! ( I hope!)

dioltas

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

BTW anybody got Rippetoe's table translated into KGs?
Nate

I've a load of college work to do, so in the name of procrastination I just converted the standards list from lb to kg.

Did it in a rush, so let me know if there's any mistakes! Hopefully some of ye might find it handy. It's an image, and prints out nicely onto an A4 page. The image was a lot higher quality, but I had to scale it down to upload it onto boards.

Edit: Download the image and print it out then. Doesn't print properly from firefox...

Nate--IRL--

Transform wrote: »

Exceptionally good numbers for your weight. What height are you?

Please tell me the db bench is combined weight of dumbbells and not 65kg dumbbells in each hand or i will have to cry into my dinner!!

I don't think they are exceptional at all (I'm 5'7"ish never accurately measured it), my goal is to get to 2x BW for DL and Squat and BW for BPress. So the goal is 150kg for DL (Doable) 150kg for squat (this is an aspiration) and 80kg for BP (also doable). Depends on how heavy I get on the next bulk

And, no, the Dumbbells are 32.5's. I'd give it another week or two until I'm ready to move on to the 65s

Nate

Edit:- Dioltas you are a star. Nothing like procrastination to get important stuff done. Thanks!

Sangre

In SS my squats are currently slightly heavier than my dead lift. Its really annoying me. My dead lift was looking to over-take the squat at a decent rate but my grip is really letting me down. I hit 90kg and the grip wants to go after a bout 2 reps. I've dropped 10% and restarted. I think my squat is low enough but I've never videod my lifts.

I don't know whether to add any grip strength training onto SS. Should the deadlift/chins be enough?

This is especially annoying me today as had a poor gym session. Wrecked at end but felt really weak in most of my lifts. Not helped by the fecker who spotted my on my 2nd set of BP and helped me lift the bar every time I slowed down. Barely felt tired at the end of the set. FFS!

Nate--IRL--

Use chalk (I prefer liquid chalk) or straps. It makes such a difference. Also use an alternate grip if you are not doing so already.

Nate

Sangre

Might try chalk. Not to keen on using straps at 90kg, its a fairly measly weight for 1x5. I want my grip as strong as possible.

Meant to also ask, I use the same alternative grip all the time, right over and left under. How do people suggest changing it with SS 1x5? I do no warm up sets as I've already squated. I let the bar go completely dead between reps so just switch the grip then?

Finally, is my dead lift number affected because I squat heavy at the start of every session I deadlift?

Nate--IRL--

To be honest I've never DL and squatted on the same day. But I would be surprised if the DL was not affected by the previous Squat somewhat. I have never alternated my alternate grip and I rarely have problems with grip. It feels uncomfortable if I try left-over, right-under. So I stick to whats comfortable.

I will again suggest Liquid chalk, I've found it much better at preventing sweat and maintaining grip than the normal chalk balls. I'm fairly certain Mickk said he had some but hadn't listed it on his site yet.

Nate

df1985

when you lads say bench your own BW do you mean just one time like a test or to do a set of a certain amount of reps at your BW??

i only recently started to try get in shape and it can all get a bit confusing.is their a basic guide for people new to this anywhere?

BobbyOLeary

I do no warm up sets as I've already squated.

Eh? Rip specifically states that you should warm up for the deadlifts, even though you've squatted. You've done your bench press in the intervening period so you're not as warmed up as you think you are. The warmup sets give you some extra grip work too so you'll get a stronger grip faster. If your grip is that weak try and do your warmups with a double overhand and then switch to the alternate for your work set.

Don't worry about having a bad day, it happens to us all. Bench press spotters are hilarious, so hilarious that I tend not to use one unless I'm going for a 1RM. I just leave the clips off the bar so the weights can slide off if I'm going to fail.

BrianD3

Sangre wrote: »

In SS my squats are currently slightly heavier than my dead lift. Its really annoying me. My dead lift was looking to over-take the squat at a decent rate but my grip is really letting me down. I hit 90kg and the grip wants to go after a bout 2 reps. I've dropped 10% and restarted. I think my squat is low enough but I've never videod my lifts.

I don't know whether to add any grip strength training onto SS. Should the deadlift/chins be enough?

This is especially annoying me today as had a poor gym session. Wrecked at end but felt really weak in most of my lifts. Not helped by the fecker who spotted my on my 2nd set of BP and helped me lift the bar every time I slowed down. Barely felt tired at the end of the set. FFS!

Chalk should help but your grip "technique" might be off. Have a read of this article, there are some comments on gripping the bar.
http://www.powerliftinguk.com/showthread.php?t=3610

rubadub

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

the standards I aim for are Rip's ones though people (weak people :pac:) have complained that they're too high

Hanley was saying they were a bit low for elite/advanced, I have no idea what people should be lifting at that level. I have often said my problem/objection is the very first "untrained" weights standards, which they say...

This represents the minimum level of strength required to maintain a
reasonable quality of life in a sedentary individual.

So they have just said that 95%+ of my friends & family are not able to have a reasonable quality of life, which I do no think is the case by far.

Transform wrote: »

bench/dip 300lbs
squat 400lbs
deadlift 500lbs

Are you equating dips with bench ability? are you including BW in the dip value?

In the "in the well" thread you posted.

Transform wrote: »

Bench - favour dumbbells and did 43kg dumbbells for 7reps and 5 sets this week. Do not do barbell much as my shoulders do not like it much.

Chins - for a single have gone over 30kg

Dips - well did 8reps with added 50kg on a final set of 5sets

Not amazing numbers but i am working up - current weight 89kg

So you are already dipping 139kg for reps. So I presume you mean 300lb added to BW. But then you are benching 86kg which is way ahead of the dips

Also your chins seem low in comparison, do you know your 1RM chinup? I think I could chin with more weight than dip, I must test my dipping 1RM. Have you a target for chinup weight added?

Do you use parallel bars to dip? or angled ones, i.e. at right angles. I much prefer angled ones and wonder if there is any pros & cons of each.

df1985 wrote: »

when you lads say bench your own BW do you mean just one time like a test or to do a set of a certain amount of reps at your BW??

Unless otherwise stated you can presume it is a single time, "one rep max" AKA 1RM. You can estimate your 1RM using calculators for comparison
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/1rm.htm

DM-BM

Sangre wrote: »

In SS my squats are currently slightly heavier than my dead lift. Its really annoying me. My dead lift was looking to over-take the squat at a decent rate but my grip is really letting me down. I hit 90kg and the grip wants to go after a bout 2 reps. I've dropped 10% and restarted. I think my squat is low enough but I've never videod my lifts.

I don't know whether to add any grip strength training onto SS. Should the deadlift/chins be enough?

This is especially annoying me today as had a poor gym session. Wrecked at end but felt really weak in most of my lifts. Not helped by the fecker who spotted my on my 2nd set of BP and helped me lift the bar every time I slowed down. Barely felt tired at the end of the set. FFS!

Video your squats, i wasted a few months of last year thinking my squats were low enough, but when i recorded them, they were at best parallel, but not below. I also had the same problem as you where my squat was heavier than/ equal to my deadlift.

qt9ukbg60ivjrn

not point in starting a thread about squats which is what people are talking about in this, just some advise if possible please

does anyone get bruising on their collar bone/s from front squating?:o

still trying to perfect it so maybe i'm doing something wrong

BobbyOLeary

Push your elbows up more. I used to get bruising before I did this. You want the bar to rest across your deltoids, not on bone. Just drive those elbows up and you should be ok.

qt9ukbg60ivjrn

another question, about dead lifts

does anyone scrape their shins when they dead lift?

fatmammycat

I do, but it's worth it to keep the bar that close and not lose form. Wear knee socks. Or if you'd really rather not, just wear your tracksuit on DL days.
I'd also second what Bobby says about sticking your elbows up as much as you can on front squat, it keep the bar snugly back and off the bone and keeps you from tilting too far forward in the squat.

accensi0n

Athena Late Tribune wrote: »

another question, about dead lifts

does anyone scrape their shins when they dead lift?

I was thinking of starting a thread about this recently...

I wear tracksuit bottoms but still bruise and cut my shins when deadlifting. Going to start wearing sports socks as well.