Midlands International Airport: Good idea or not?

markpb

veryangryman wrote: »

they are needed to avoid rural isolation for quite alot of the country's citzens

The rest of your post was fine but this takes the biscuit. You don't solve rural isolation problems with airports and you don't build airports, especially not international ones, for rural areas.

veryangryman

markpb wrote: »

The rest of your post was fine but this takes the biscuit. You don't solve rural isolation problems with airports and you don't build airports, especially not international ones, for rural areas.

What im saying is that without proper infrastructure, they are needed. Right now. Yes they likely should not have been built prior to DCs being built but we are where we are. Close Galway and Sligo after Atlantic corridoor open. Donegal and Kerry, id keep for access to Dublin as they will never have decent enough roads.

saywhatyousee

yeah no need for galway and sligo airports
galway is an hour from knock and shannon
sligo is 40 minutes from knock

KevR

saywhatyousee wrote: »

yeah no need for galway and sligo airports
galway is an hour from knock and shannon
sligo is 40 minutes from knock

It's just a pity that there are so many airports on the West Coast, each with their own diluted timetables which can't compete with Dublin. I have 3 airports within an hour of where I live (Galway, Knock and Shannon) but I end up having to use Dublin almost everytime I fly anywhere simply because I can't get flights that I want/suit my needs from the other airports. It's a crazy situation that the West of Ireland is in regarding airports.

coolperson05

Surely if they closed Sligo/Galway/Donegal and really worked on Knock? That got a new terminal a while ago. Make this a big Ryanair hub for all the west. Get Shannon back on the long haul track by improving access (eg. the mentioned bridge. And people on the south and east can use Cork/Dublin. 4 Good airports are better than 7/8 substandard. Ryanair and Aerlingus need to be encourage to support Shannon/Knock better. I think Knock all the way with new M18/M19

Neworder79

It's just a pity that there are so many airports on the West Coast, each with their own diluted timetables which can't compete with Dublin. I have 3 airports within an hour of where I live (Galway, Knock and Shannon) but I end up having to use Dublin almost everytime I fly anywhere simply because I can't get flights that I want/suit my needs from the other airports. It's a crazy situation that the West of Ireland is in regarding airports.

Surely if they closed Sligo/Galway/Donegal and really worked on Knock? That got a new terminal a while ago. Make this a big Ryanair hub for all the west. Get Shannon back on the long haul track by improving access (eg. the mentioned bridge. And people on the south and east can use Cork/Dublin. 4 Good airports are better than 7/8 substandard. Ryanair and Aerlingus need to be encourage to support Shannon/Knock better. I think Knock all the way with new M18/M19

You are correct in saying the number and proximity of western airports dilutes the market through over competition and results in a poorer offering for the customer overall, through thinly spread routes, low frequency, poorly developed airports.

However "they" (I presume you mean the government) have no control as all bar Shannon are privately run, as will the proposed Midlands airport. If they had a coherent aviation policy they might look at air access strategically and focus public grants and investment only on 2/3 key gateways and providing quality access to them, such as Shannon and Knock in the West, which already have the infrastructure to handle growth. But the current Governments policy seems to be "goodies for all", especially come election time.

cson

You ressurrect Shannon very easily imo if you made a Long Haul hub for Ryanair. Yes Ryanair. I'm sure O'Leray is exploring expanding into Low cost Long Haul and if made Shannon a hub for all Ryanair Long Haul flights you could well route a lot of passenger traffic through it.

Sponge Bob

cson wrote: »

You ressurrect Shannon very easily imo if you made a Long Haul hub for Ryanair. Yes Ryanair.

News from 2008, O'Leary said quite a lot but never mentioned Shannon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfIY24BErBE

SeanW

I live in, and love, the Midlands.

And I think this is a lousy idea. Ireland has too many airports already, especially along the West coast. These have often been "developed" at the cost of policies affecting Dublin, for example, in a "cutting of your nose to spite your face" fashion. This airport could not possibly justify its existance as an International Airport, unless it was Ryanairport named "Dublin (Horseleap)"

All the good roads and railways lead to Dublin. Living in Longford for example, an international airport would about as much use to me being in Timbuktu as being somewhere in Offaly. I would be much better served if the politicians invested in Dublin Airport properly, so that it could handle one of these babies for example. As would almost everyone in Leinster outside of Co. Offaly.

G_R

Sponge Bob wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfIY24BErBE

that man is a genius, give the people what they want:D:D:D

whyulittle

Nothing new really, but in the paper this week.

Westmeath Independent wrote:

Horseleap airport plans still on table

by Karen Downey


The plans for an airport at Horseleap are progressing, according to the backers of the project, who hope to be in a position to announce news regarding the project by the end of the summer.

Tullamore-based architect Patrick Little who is leading the private initiative earmarked for the Tubber/Horseleap area said plans for the project are still progressing well and said hopefully they will have news that they can make public in the next month or month and a half.

The proposal, which the developers believe could create over 5,000 jobs, including 2,000 in the construction phase, entails a 6,000 square metre terminal building.

The building will have the capacity for two million passengers, a 2.7 kilometre long and 60 metre-wide runway with a capacity for nine million travellers.

Earlier this year Mr Little said there were a number of investors on board for the first phase of the development. The planning process alone is estimated to cost €3 million, and while there is an opportunity for investors to get involved when planning permission is gained, there are already a number of firm commitments to funding once that is forthcoming.

Their vision, according to a document aimed at investors, is to create a new international cargo and passenger airport as an anchor to an international multimodal logistics and distribution hub.

The facility will help lower costs and improve competitiveness in the country.

A development campus of 800 acres will be developed adjacent to the airport to act as a manufacturing, logistics and distribution hub for the country, backers claim in the investment leaflet.

Backers state in the planning documents that the airport is to act as a reliever airport for Dublin and they expect it to reach two million passengers per annum by 2020, pointing out that there is also potential for cargo business of 50,000 tonnes per year.

It is hoped if planning permission is forthcoming that work would begin on the project by the end of 2011 and have it operational by the end of 2013 if there aren't any delays.

The airport, if it goes ahead, would be of benefit to the Chinese trading hub planned for the Creggan area.

Speaking about the 'Chinatown' plans, Mr Little said: "I think it's a great initiative. If there's anything we can do to help them we will."

http://www.westmeathindependent.ie/news/region/articles/2011/07/13/4005550-horseleap-airport-plans-still-on-table/

whyulittle

whyulittle wrote: »

Nothing new really, but in the paper this week.



http://www.westmeathindependent.ie/news/region/articles/2011/07/13/4005550-horseleap-airport-plans-still-on-table/

Building for the sake of building, a pair of follies!:rolleyes:

donkey balls

Not a hope in hell of that airport getting built and of it does I cannot see them shifting 50,000kgs of freight per annum,First of all they are going to have to get the cargo operators to position aircraft there which I never see happening:rolleyes:.
Also I wonder have they done atmospheric tests on the location regarding local weather as this would impact on the operations of the facility.

sdanseo

What a very inventive way to piss away a billion or two. Nearly as funny as that guy who threw away the pension funds, what was his name..?


Oh yeah, Seán Fitzpatrick.

Seriously though. Ireland already has nine airports (three of which are total ghost towns already), one for every 500,000 people. We don't need another one.

And for anyone lacking in speed and distance calculation skills - Horseleap is about an hour, maximum, from Dublin Airport. Utter luncacy to consider building anything more than a petrol station in the kip.

Solair

Its totally and utterly unnecessary. We already have way too many airports and insufficient population to support them.

The motorway network puts most of the midlands an hour from Dublin or Knock. Or, in the south midlands Cork and Shannon.

The midlands also does not have the population or the tourism potential or air freight to support it

Cork, Dublin and Shannon should be focused on as sustainable international gateways. Anything else is really a commuter airport.

murphym7

donkey balls wrote: »

Not a hope in hell of that airport getting built and of it does I cannot see them shifting 50,000kgs of freight per annum,First of all they are going to have to get the cargo operators to position aircraft there which I never see happening:rolleyes:.
Also I wonder have they done atmospheric tests on the location regarding local weather as this would impact on the operations of the facility.

50 tons does not seem that much to shift really?

Airport should not be built, waste of time and money.

serfboard

Westmeath Independent wrote:

Tullamore-based architect Patrick Little who is leading the private initiative earmarked for the Tubber/Horseleap area said plans for the project are still progressing well and said hopefully they will have news that they can make public in the next month or month and a half.

Tullamore-based architect Patrick Little presumably has fúck-all to do now that the building boom has collapsed leading to no work for architects. He is also under the impression that he is going to get the money from somwhere for this. Unless he has tens of millions stuffed in the mattress, he'll be looking for private finance (hah!), bank loans (hah again) or government funding (ditto).

WRT the last point, I'm betting Leo V isn't that stupid. He's after refusing money for Galway, after all.

veryangryman

I hope it gets built. As long as the taxpayer dont foot the bill (big if), i really would like to see this happen. The less reasons that one HAS to use Dublin, the better. Thats nothing against the city, its just nice to have options that dont involve going along a goat-track, a la Knock, Kerry and even (to a small extent) Cork

According to a friend of my wife, this is back on the table. There was a meeting in Tober where developers were looking at buying up land from the local farmers to build the runway and a hotel.
The friend is really pissed off with the idea of a runway at the end of their garden!
Personally the only thing I expect to fly from the MIA is Porcine Airways.

richardmoyes

According to a bloke my postman's auntie met in de pub the idear ufa midlands airport is uranium enriched skunk ordure

JeffK88

Deleted User wrote: »

According to a friend of my wife, this is back on the table. There was a meeting in Tober where developers were looking at buying up land from the local farmers to build the runway and a hotel.
The friend is really pissed off with the idea of a runway at the end of their garden!
Personally the only thing I expect to fly from the MIA is Porcine Airways.

Ha ha ha ha ...Midlands International. Ha ha that was funny. Should we look to Spain for countless failed airports. Or even here with Sligo,Galway and Waterford all closed.If its true. We never learned a thing even though we didnt anyway learn a thing.

Stan27

[Deleted User] wrote: »

According to a friend of my wife, this is back on the table. There was a meeting in Tober where developers were looking at buying up land from the local farmers to build the runway and a hotel.
The friend is really pissed off with the idea of a runway at the end of their garden!
Personally the only thing I expect to fly from the MIA is Porcine Airways.

I herd this too. Will be great for the Midlands, as the Midlands is loosing out big time

BonkeyDonker

Stan27 wrote: »

I herd this too. Will be great for the Midlands, as the Midlands is loosing out big time

It will in no way be great for the midlands. As an island we have more airports than we need - look at how most apart from Dublin are struggling. Adding one more airport that will essentially want to take passengers from the rest - particularly the existing regionals is a recipe for disaster.

Dardania

BonkeyDonker wrote: »

Stan27 wrote: »

I herd this too. Will be great for the Midlands, as the Midlands is loosing out big time

It will in no way be great for the midlands. As an island we have more airports than we need - look at how most apart from Dublin are struggling. Adding one more airport that will essentially want to take passengers from the rest - particularly the existing regionals is a recipe for disaster.

It's a shame that the dominant economic hub is on the east coast. At least it's in the middle of the east coast.

I can't really see this Midlands airport getting off the ground - it would need a critical mass in order to be successful.

I can however see Micheal O'Leary giving it some support, for non-altruistic reasons, to shake up DAA at times.

Dardania

Dardania wrote: »

It's a shame that the dominant economic hub is on the east coast. At least it's in the middle of the east coast.

I can't really see this Midlands airport getting off the ground - it would need a critical mass in order to be successful.

I can however see Micheal O'Leary giving it some support, for non-altruistic reasons, to shake up DAA at times.

MOL has already rubbished the idea of a Midlands airport, his response may be somewhere in this thread.

Bray Head

Dublin airport is already very well placed. It's about as close by road to the whole population of the island as you can get. Big airport support more destinations. People like choice, which is why you have so many driving south from NI to fly from Dublin, even though Belfast has two airports.

Compare Ireland with Scotland. Similar population but you cannot fly to as many interesting destinations from Scotland because there are several medium-sized airports. If you were starting from scratch you would build one big one mid-way between Glasgow and Edinburgh and then a few regional ones further north.

Ireland does not have this problem. We do not need another airport.

cgcsb

Stan27 wrote: »

I herd this too. Will be great for the Midlands, as the Midlands is loosing out big time

Yeah the midlands is really loosing out alright. :rolleyes: stop killing your towns with suburban retail, then worry about duplicating services.

newacc2015

Bray Head wrote: »

Dublin airport is already very well placed. It's about as close by road to the whole population of the island as you can get. Big airport support more destinations. People like choice, which is why you have so many driving south from NI to fly from Dublin, even though Belfast has two airports.

Compare the ROI of Ireland with Bavaria in Germany. Bavaria almost the same size as ROI, but has about 12.5m people. Despite that it has only 4 airports. One is easily the worst Ryanair Airport possible ie the airport is smaller than a regional train station here. A lot the airports would be used by Swiss and Austrians as they are near by. Munich Airport is one of the largest in the World, as nearly all flights for Bavaria and surrounding areas are concentrated in the main Munich Airport.

Bavaria understands the importance of concentrating all flights in a single airport versus the Irish mindset of we need to throw a few token jobs to the West and the midlands for the sake of it regardless of whether it negatively affects the whole of Ireland

medoc

7 years after I started this tread and the idea is still kicking around. Though it seems as if the project is always just about to move to the "next stage". And only ever seems to be covered in the local free paper. Surely it's either time to build it or forget it. A third terminal at Dublin with new links from the M2 and across to the M4 would be a better use of private investment at this stage.

http://www.offalyindependent.ie/news/roundup/articles/2016/10/28/4129197-tubber-airport-almost-ready-to-go-to-next-stage/

or improved rail links in Dublin.

medoc

Deleted User wrote: »

or improved rail links in Dublin.

Agreed. Though we realistically will be relying on road transport to the airport for the majority of people for many years to come. And we seem to have a preference in this country for road infrastructure over rail. So improved road access should be part of the plans for any T3. A rail link should be provided anyway even without T3

Sam Russell

Dublin Airport needs a rail link and one is already designed but waiting for the go ahead (Clongriffin Spur). Metro North was designed and is now waiting for the next iteration of design. Dart Underground and the Maynooth electrification are two other projects that would help connection to the airport from the rest of the country - and improve public transport in Dublin.

I we cannot afford the above projects, why would we need a Midlands International Airport - best forgotten as an irrelevant idea.

bennyineire

Sam Russell wrote: »

Dublin Airport needs a rail link and one is already designed but waiting for the go ahead (Clongriffin Spur). Metro North was designed and is now waiting for the next iteration of design. Dart Underground and the Maynooth electrification are two other projects that would help connection to the airport from the rest of the country - and improve public transport in Dublin.

I we cannot afford the above projects, why would we need a Midlands International Airport - best forgotten as an irrelevant idea.

All the schemes you mentioned are public schemes, the Midlands airport proposal is private. What ever money may or may not be spend on this will have no bearing on all the public schemes you mentioned.

Why o why do so many people trot out this line that we can't afford this airport when it has nothing to do with public money

Idbatterim

All the schemes you mentioned are public schemes, the Midlands airport proposal is private. What ever money may or may not be spend on this will have no bearing on all the public schemes you mentioned.

Why o why do so many people trot out this line that we can't afford this airport when it has nothing to do with public money

I have read a bit about this proposal. Including a fairly scathing Irish times article yesterday. The proposal seems to me, to be a joke. Who in gods name MIGHT fly passengers there in any numbers? Ryanair?

Cork and Shannon, two established airports and one being based in a "city" last year cork handled 2.1 million passengers and shannon 1.7 million. where would the destinations be? exclusively uk on turbo props?

Its a ludicrous idea and unless they know something we dont about cargo etc, it just seems an off the wall idea! In terms of passenger numbers, if they are think that will bring in much, LOL!

D.L.R.

Terrible idea. So presumably its a runner.

hytrogen

Idbatterim wrote:

Its a ludicrous idea and unless they know something we dont about cargo etc, it just seems an off the wall idea! In terms of passenger numbers, if they are think that will bring in much, LOL!

Well considering Apple want to setup a cloud farm in Athenry and many other small-medium firms around the Athlone industrial area including some pharma, some tech, it's a realistic alternative to flying goods out from which otherwise would have to go by road to EINN or EIDW.
It still baffles me how as a modern western country we still don't have sufficient connectivity between ports via rail

dubhthach

hytrogen wrote: »

Well considering Apple want to setup a cloud farm in Athenry and many other small-medium firms around the Athlone industrial area including some pharma, some tech, it's a realistic alternative to flying goods out from which otherwise would have to go by road to EINN or EIDW.
It still baffles me how as a modern western country we still don't have sufficient connectivity between ports via rail

If Apple still setup in Athenry (Depending on how long High Court action goes on) there will be Motorway connection to Shannon in form of M18, leaving that aside I'm not sure why a data center (which will probably be containerised one) needs close access to an airport.

hytrogen

dubhthach wrote:

If Apple still setup in Athenry (Depending on how long High Court action goes on) there will be Motorway connection to Shannon in form of M18, leaving that aside I'm not sure why a data center (which will probably be containerised one) needs close access to an airport.

Do you think corporate leaders / emergency tech support want to travel hours on a motorway to their asset or site in foreign countries for business meetings etc? They want direct flight 25min transfer max and no questions asked.

veryangryman

Two points..

1) The airport won't cost anything to the regular Joe Taxpayer, so let them try it if they so wish.

2) Choice is a good thing.

I'm in favour of it based on this.

LeinsterDub

veryangryman wrote: »

Two points..

1) The airport won't cost anything to the regular Joe Taxpayer, so let them try it if they so wish.

2) Choice is a good thing.

I'm in favour of it based on this.

It will when they go bankrupt and we are expected to bail it out or demolish it.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

LeinsterDub wrote: »

It will when they go bankrupt and we are expected to bail it out or demolish it.

I refer you to Galway and Waterford airports. We only bail out banks and big time developers in this country. Great bunch of lads.

Idbatterim

Do you think corporate leaders / emergency tech support want to travel hours on a motorway to their asset or site in foreign countries for business meetings etc? They want direct flight 25min transfer max and no questions asked.

in terms of the apple data centre, this airport isnt on their radar in terms of planning, so clearly it isnt important to them. Secondly I just checked, shannon is a 60 minute drive according to google maps from shannon and offaly is 57 mins . It will be even quicker drive from athenry to shannon, when the gort -tuam road opens in the not too distant future...

also in terms of what corporate leaders want, take a read of the united airlines route being axed thread on the aviation forum, pretty informative...

dubhthach

hytrogen wrote: »

Do you think corporate leaders / emergency tech support want to travel hours on a motorway to their asset or site in foreign countries for business meetings etc? They want direct flight 25min transfer max and no questions asked.

Really now? I think someone has been watching Mr. Robot and doesn't understand how Data centers actually work. Leaving that aside Shannon is still closer to Athenry site by Motorway than this proposed midland airport.

murphaph

Can't believe a crackpot idea of another airport has reached 17 pages. Well actually I can.

Sam Russell

hytrogen wrote: »

Do you think corporate leaders / emergency tech support want to travel hours on a motorway to their asset or site in foreign countries for business meetings etc? They want direct flight 25min transfer max and no questions asked.

Galway airport was well within that transfer time from Athenry and it closed through lack of traffic.

Do you think we can have enough airports in this country to be within 25 mins of every Ballygobackwards in the country to support businesses that employ 100 or so?

We cannot build the M20, DU or MN, or even the Clongriffin spur.

murphaph

murphaph wrote: »

Can't believe a crackpot idea of another airport has reached 17 pages. Well actually I can.

Don't forget, you're on boards.ie where ideas are thrashed to death by two opposing groups in ever decreasing circles.

Old link, but the story was on the front page again this week.
http://www.westmeathindependent.ie/news/roundup/articles/2009/12/30/3993870-ryanairs-oleary-rejects-horseleap-airport-plan

Ryanair CEO Michael O'Leary has branded the proposed airport at Horseleap "a complete waste of money".

Midland Airport Development Ltd intends building an airport between Tubber and Horseleap, with the longest runway in Ireland

hytrogen

Sam Russell wrote:

Do you think we can have enough airports in this country to be within 25 mins of every Ballygobackwards in the country to support businesses that employ 100 or so?

Considering our airspace is the most attractive to fly through with the competitive tariff rates and most major airlines now wants to use us as an alternative hop off before heading Stateside instead of Heathrow given that's going to still be a building site for the next 20years, CDG smells and needs a lick of paint & everyone misses the connection in Schipol because they enjoy the coffee shops too much, plus with the IAA so easy to do business with yes.
Sure flying hammocks will be the commuters choice of chariot by 2020.

whyulittle

Stumbled across this earlier.

http://npf.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/0131-Midlands-Airport-Developments-Ltd.compressed.pdf

ClovenHoof

Go away with this ****e.