Midlands International Airport: Good idea or not?

invincibleirish

A representative for this laughable idea was on the radio this morning hawking his wares. whilst he had some good PR bluster going on when it got to the nitty gritty he explained how this project, costed at €200m, is going to be funded. He stressed private investment was being sought but also mentioned potential investment from a national infrastructure fund.

This fits all the criteria gombeen FF have assembled over the years, it 'connects' the Midlands triangle under the discredited National Spatial Strategy, it 'integrates' with transport links (Galway-Dublin line is nearby) it fits all the criteria for our Irish version of regional development.

Pork Barrel.

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/morningireland/

Gruffalo

invincibleirish wrote: »

A representative for this laughable idea was on the radio this morning hawking his wares. whilst he had some good PR bluster going on when it got to the nitty gritty he explained how this project, costed at €200m, is going to be funded. He stressed private investment was being sought but also mentioned potential investment from a national infrastructure fund.

This fits all the criteria gombeen FF have assembled over the years, it 'connects' the Midlands triangle under the discredited National Spatial Strategy, it 'integrates' with transport links (Galway-Dublin line is nearby) it fits all the criteria for our Irish version of regional development.

Pork Barrel.

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/morningireland/

Yes and if you listed to the clip, he says that there are train links to Dublin which take 50 minutes. The nearest station will be Clara approx. 5 miles, and it takes a lot longer than 50 minutes to get to Dublin from Clara.

Sponge Bob

The state will gladly pay to twin track the line from Clara to Portarlington ...and straighten the bloody thing out too . They might as well throw in a spur out to the airport too....sure why not .

That then leaves you only with 70-75 miles From Clara to Heuston station and with 50 Minutes to get there

Legend . Waaaay faster than that yoke the Stansted Express which does c.30 miles in 40-45 minutes

****ing amazing what happens to the laws of physics in a bog wha ????

Boxcarwillie

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The state will gladly pay to twin track the line from Clara to Portarlington ...and straighten the bloody thing out too . They might as well throw in a spur out to the airport too....sure why not .

That then leaves you only with 70-75 miles From Clara to Heuston station and with 50 Minutes to get there

Legend . Waaaay faster than that yoke the Stansted Express which does c.30 miles in 40-45 minutes

****ing amazing what happens to the laws of physics in a bog wha ????

No more ridiculous than spending billions digging a burrow from the congested city center to an already crammed dublin airport. It's amazing what happens to the laws of economics in the city.

markpb

Boxcarwillie wrote: »

No more ridiculous than spending billions digging a burrow from the congested city center to an already crammed dublin airport. It's amazing what happens to the laws of economics in the city.

Did you type that with a straight face? :boggles:

Sponge Bob

Nothing short of a TGV would do in Offaly , rather obviously

50 minutes , ho ho ho .

fricatus

What will the airport code be?

I suggest "BFO"

G_R

fricatus wrote: »

I suggest "BFO"

perfect haha:pac:

Sponge Bob

fricatus wrote: »

What will the airport code be?

I suggest "BFO"

BFO is allocated ( rather aptly) to Zimbabwe and BIF to Texas and BFF to Nebraska

Fortunately LIE IS available ,

Leinster International Exoport anybody ???

Gruffalo

fricatus wrote: »

What will the airport code be?

I suggest "BFO"

Aren't you from Waterford? You are not really in a position to laugh at useless, pipedream airports.

Alfasud

The plans are still with An Bord Pleanala and no decision has been made. It looks like there are no investers either. The railway line from Athlone to Mullingar couldnt be opened so its unlikely that this will be built either. Its all gone very quiet.

Sponge Bob

They are advertising heavily for Investors out in that Bog

fuzzy dunlop

Gruffalo wrote: »

Aren't you from Waterford? You are not really in a position to laugh at useless, pipedream airports.

He is actually.Waterford airport was the only regional airport turning a profit in the 80's albeit a small one without a PSO grant. Yet we had every other regional airport reporting profits which included the PSO's in their financial statements.Remove the PSO's from all the airports and then see what happens.

spacetweek

Alfasud wrote: »

The plans are still with An Bord Pleanala and no decision has been made. It looks like there are no investers either. The railway line from Athlone to Mullingar couldnt be opened so its unlikely that this will be built either. Its all gone very quiet.

With Dublin's 50% capacity expansion by April 2010 and a downturn, is this airport ever going to be needed? It would need lots of infrastructure and we're investing billions in a Metro for Dublin's and hundreds of millions have already been spent on new gates etc. in the last few years. Better to consolidate air travel at the newly improved DUB than having to set up a whole new airport out in the sticks.

gunbarrel

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

He is actually.Waterford airport was the only regional airport turning a profit in the 80's albeit a small one without a PSO grant. Yet we had every other regional airport reporting profits which included the PSO's in their financial statements.Remove the PSO's from all the airports and then see what happens.

Turning a profit in the 80's is relevant today, why? Was all Government investment removed before calculating that profit?

Knock only started in the 80's and it is doing much better than Waterford so that does not really say a lot for Waterford. Waterford is stagnant.

Aer Arann has a high level of dependency on PSO's. Waterford is dependent on Aer Arann. Guess what happens when all the PSO's are pulled?

Waterford is a useless pipedream of an airport. The only difference between it and this midlands airport is that it managed to sneak into existence. Don't let that fool you into thinking it is worthwhile. It should be discarded and proper transport links provided to Dublin and Cork Airports

Judgement Day

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

He is actually.Waterford airport was the only regional airport turning a profit in the 80's albeit a small one without a PSO grant. Yet we had every other regional airport reporting profits which included the PSO's in their financial statements.Remove the PSO's from all the airports and then see what happens.

Isn't Waterford Airport the one that lost its only scheduled service just after Albert Reynolds (?) opened a new terminal building. Truth is in the last big recession I think only Shannon and Dublin were being considered for retention. There are far too many airports in Ireland already and the only reason that they are there at all is the attempt to ape everything the USA does be it road or airports.

Bodan

If this were to open, i think it will be Ryanairs new Dublin hub.

(apologies if this has been said already)

fuzzy dunlop

gunbarrel wrote: »

Turning a profit in the 80's is relevant today, why? Was all Government investment removed before calculating that profit?

Knock only started in the 80's and it is doing much better than Waterford so that does not really say a lot for Waterford. Waterford is stagnant.

Aer Arann has a high level of dependency on PSO's. Waterford is dependent on Aer Arann. Guess what happens when all the PSO's are pulled?

Waterford is a useless pipedream of an airport. The only difference between it and this midlands airport is that it managed to sneak into existence. Don't let that fool you into thinking it is worthwhile. It should be discarded and proper transport links provided to Dublin and Cork Airports

The only reason Knock is doing much better than Waterford is because of the Government subsidies it has received in one form or the other since its inception.It certainly isn't because it is more viable.The performance of the airport in the 80's is relevant because it had no central government funding.That was my point.The only reason the other regional airports were profitable was because of tyhe PSO scam which Waterford never qualified for under EU rules.Again the situation with Aer Arann is as it is now but may not have been the case but for the PSO's.The PSO's that Sligo,Knock,Kerry etc benefitted from were in effect anti-competitive. Other airlines used the airport without the PSO's and Ryanair managed to launch it's business out of there.

gunbarrel

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

The only reason Knock is doing much better than Waterford is because of the Government subsidies it has received in one form or the other since its inception.

Are you honestly trying to suggest that Waterford airport has not received any form of funding from the Government?

It certainly isn't because it is more viable.

Define viable?

Ireland West Airport Knock's latest travel figures reveal that a total of 629,000 passengers used the airport in 2008, up 73,000, or 13%, on the previous year. This made 2008 the busiest year ever for the Co Mayo airport.

http://http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0105/knock.html

Waterford Airport has reported a 25% increase in the number of passengers that passed through its gates last year.

The airport says it facilitated a total of around 144,000 passengers during 2008.

http://http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2009/01/13/story394304.asp

That is almost 5 times as many passengers using Knock, that is more viable.

The performance of the airport in the 80's is relevant because it had no central government funding.

Waterford Crystal was doing alright during the 80's. Try telling those workers that that is relevant today.

That was my point.The only reason the other regional airports were profitable was because of tyhe PSO scam which Waterford never qualified for under EU rules.

Waterford did not qualify direclty but it does qualify indirectly. It is totally dependent on Aer Arann which is largely dependent on the PSO system. FYI Knock is not dependent on the PSO system, it only forms 2.5% of its business. For more of a response to your argument read the following:

http://http://www.irelandwestairport.com/utility/news_details.aspx?id=169

Again the situation with Aer Arann is as it is now but may not have been the case but for the PSO's.The PSO's that Sligo,Knock,Kerry etc benefitted from were in effect anti-competitive.

Now you are just having a pathetic whinge. The PSO's have played a large role in developing Aer Arann which is the only airline that can be bothered with Waterford Airport, so Waterford Airport has benefitted from the PSO's. No Aer Arann, No Waterford Airport.

You seem to want to overlook the reason why Waterford Airport cannot get PSO's i.e. it is near enough to Dublin and Cork not to need such a flight (though I dont believe that there should be such flights in Ireland), which means that it is near enough to use their airports. Waterford Airport is an unnecessary waste of space and money. It should be cut along with Sligo and Donegal and all necessary steps should be taken to ensure that the Midlands does not get an airport as it would be another giant waste of money.

Other airlines used the airport without the PSO's and Ryanair managed to launch it's business out of there.

And where are they now? It seems that these airlines find Waterford to be unviable, otherwise they would still be there.

veryangryman

O Leary was in touch with one of the local papers this week about the airports viability.

Mentioned that there is no population base there, pointing out that there are 10 million people in Bristol area.

Am i the only one who spotted the stupid figure in the article. Nothing sums up a lazy journalist like an figure like that going in there.

I dont think theres any harm having flights from the likes of Donegal/Waterford/Sligo/Kerry to Dublin. If i happened to live in such barren areas, i wouldnt fancy the long drive if needed to travel to the cap city

markpb

veryangryman wrote: »

I dont think theres any harm having flights from the likes of Donegal/Waterford/Sligo/Kerry to Dublin. If i happened to live in such barren areas, i wouldnt fancy the long drive if needed to travel to the cap city

The problem is that I doubt you'd be willing to pay the full economic cost of those short flights so the state would have to pay part of the cost of the building the airport, prop up the loss the airport would probably make (because of the limited number of flights, people would still have to use the others) and then discount the cost of your flights to get you to use them. Luckily, the EU would stop the government paying PSO levies for most of those flights because they're so short otherwise the parish pump politics would take over.

In fact, this country is so messed up, we pay Ryanair more (per passenger) to fly from Kerry to Dublin than we pay to Irish Rail to operate the same train service even though the train is more efficient, carries more people and is more environmentally friendly (which means less fines for breaching carbon limits).

L1011

veryangryman wrote: »

I dont think theres any harm having flights from the likes of Donegal/Waterford/Sligo/Kerry to Dublin. If i happened to live in such barren areas, i wouldnt fancy the long drive if needed to travel to the cap city

It'd already be faster to drive from Waterford CC to Dublin CC than drive south to Waterford Airport, get a plane up, and get a bus/taxi in from Dublin Airport.

Add in the next 30mins saving on the M9 this year and the route becomes irrelevant.


Sligo is also a waste, even as it stands. The next planned improvement to that route will result in there being DC from Heuston to Carrick on Shannon...

Bards

MYOB wrote: »

It'd already be faster to drive from Waterford CC to Dublin CC than drive south to Waterford Airport, get a plane up, and get a bus/taxi in from Dublin Airport.

Add in the next 30mins saving on the M9 this year and the route becomes irrelevant.


Sligo is also a waste, even as it stands. The next planned improvement to that route will result in there being DC from Heuston to Carrick on Shannon...

There is no PSO or any route from Waterford to Dublin.

All Flights out of Waterford are International and do not carry a PSO subsidy

invincibleirish

veryangryman wrote: »

O Leary was in touch with one of the local papers this week about the airports viability.

Mentioned that there is no population base there, pointing out that there are 10 million people in Bristol area.

Am i the only one who spotted the stupid figure in the article. Nothing sums up a lazy journalist like an figure like that going in there.

South West England - 5m people
South Wales - 1.5m people (approx)
Southern end of the West Midlands - 2m people (approx)

He might be padding it out with the 10m qoute but there is zero comparison between the very rural Irish midlands and Bristol airports theoretical catchment area.

veryangryman wrote: »

I dont think theres any harm having flights from the likes of Donegal/Waterford/Sligo/Kerry to Dublin. If i happened to live in such barren areas, i wouldnt fancy the long drive if needed to travel to the cap city

Indeed, this is why i campaign for the establishment of a West Cork airport, i don't fancy the long drive to Dublin or Cork either, airports for all!. All i need is a sympathetic local TD to get into the DoT to get me a runway and a PSO and we're in business.

L1011

Bards wrote: »

There is no PSO or any route from Waterford to Dublin.

All Flights out of Waterford are International and do not carry a PSO subsidy

Wasn't aware there was no Dublin route but, erm, Galway? International?

Baboushka

invincibleirish wrote: »

South West England - 5m people
South Wales - 1.5m people (approx)
Southern end of the West Midlands - 2m people (approx)

He might be padding it out with the 10m qoute but there is zero comparison between the very rural Irish midlands and Bristol airports theoretical catchment area.



Indeed, this is why i campaign for the establishment of a West Cork airport, i don't fancy the long drive to Dublin or Cork either, airports for all!. All i need is a sympathetic local TD to get into the DoT to get me a runway and a PSO and we're in business.

Dont give up on that dream, it may yet happen.

I agree with most of your point, but I have lived in Bristol and people from any part of the West Midlands are far more likely to use Birmingham as it has a much greater variety of flights. In fact people from Bristol have been known to use Birmingham as they couldn't get the necessary flights.

All in all, the realistic catchment area for Bristol is no higher than 2.5 million which still outweighs any potential Midlands airport by a considerable amount.

Midlands airport can be summed up by the famous old saying "If you build it, they wont come"

veryangryman

Baboushka wrote: »

Dont give up on that dream, it may yet happen.

I agree with most of your point, but I have lived in Bristol and people from any part of the West Midlands are far more likely to use Birmingham as it has a much greater variety of flights. In fact people from Bristol have been known to use Birmingham as they couldn't get the necessary flights.

All in all, the realistic catchment area for Bristol is no higher than 2.5 million which still outweighs any potential Midlands airport by a considerable amount.

Midlands airport can be summed up by the famous old saying "If you build it, they wont come"

Your point above assumes that this airport will also have feck all destinations. Consider the following: The costs of running an airport in the midlands would be much less than in Dublin, so the Ryanairs may very well call the airport "Dublin-Horseleap" or similar. It will also give them alot of negotiation power with the DAA now that there is competition in the marketplace. O Leary has said he wont touch such airport, but i find that inconsistent with his threats to move Shannon flights to Knock and Cork flights to Kerry.

Yes alot of stuff would have to happen for all this to work, but im just saying that its not a complete pipedream now that the midlands has some sort of infrastructure network

dowlingm

Airports require huge amounts of land and hundreds of millions of euro in both direct costs (terminals, runways, hangars, fuel stores) and indirect costs (roads to bring people to it). We have enough of them already. Why build more?

What the proponents of this plan have to show is what number of people is insufficiently served (and how "insufficiently served" is defined) either by existing airports or by refitting existing facilities in more convenient locations such as Baldonnel.

Baboushka

veryangryman wrote: »

Your point above assumes that this airport will also have feck all destinations.

Which, considering Ireland and Europe's biggest airline have said that they will have nothing to do with it, is a very realistic assumption on my part.

Consider the following: The costs of running an airport in the midlands would be much less than in Dublin, so the Ryanairs may very well call the airport "Dublin-Horseleap" or similar.

Ah yes, lets play that old game "lets pretend that Michael O'Leary, has not said what he has actually said". That's a great game.

O'Leary has made it clear that Ryanair has no interest in such an airport, accept it.

It will also give them alot of negotiation power with the DAA now that there is competition in the marketplace.

Dont you mean would? Or do you know something that the rest of us dont?

O Leary has said he wont touch such airport, but i find that inconsistent with his threats to move Shannon flights to Knock and Cork flights to Kerry.

So you know Michael better than Michael does? Have you informed him of this?

Yes alot of stuff would have to happen for all this to work, but im just saying that its not a complete pipedream now that the midlands has some sort of infrastructure network

If you are happy to believe that then fair play to you. I dont care as long as my country's money is not wasted on yet another pointless airport.

johnk1090

this airport in midlands between tubber and horsleep . logical thinking best place for airoport of its size . it is centeral to every county .by chatting to landowner who knows more about it .it is more comercial than passenger .there is new motor way dub galway .new road proposed to replace n 52 ,there is planning permission for hotels got in kilbeggan,clara and tulamore ,pleanty green feilds to build neccessory warehouses ,etc

and not many houses in that area where airport proposed .

veryangryman

A very common phrase used on this forum, ie "gombeenism" is used to poo-poo any sort of regional development opportunity. Its like the trendy phrase to use on boards.

Well guess what? Not all of us want to go near Dublin or any of its associated crap. I would hazard a guess that 50% of the workforce there would move away to the other regions if they had such an opportunity. No i dont have figures, but what i do have is a huge bunch of angry commuters on the C+T forum over rail strikes, traffic, gritting etc. God help those poor people if they maybe had a choice to live somewhere else and make a living without losing 4 hours of their day honking horns or queueing with scumbags and beggars on the Luas.

Was it "gombeenism" to put the Dept of Education/Ericsson/Elan offices in Athlone, some social welfare offices in Letterkenny, or other regional projects up and down the country? Ask these workers if theyd rather live in the capital

Yes the lions share should be in Dublin, but for gods sake, can you take the rods out of your backsides and actually give ideas the time of day before dismissing them as gombeenism.

Another reason M O'Leary said he wouldn't want to use a Midlands airport is the simple fact that it's one of the foggiest parts of the country
Even with all the latest technology, pilots don't like landing in fog.
Drove past Clara yesterday morning, very thick fog!

edit: link to westmeath independant report

markpb

veryangryman wrote: »

A very common phrase used on this forum, ie "gombeenism" is used to poo-poo any sort of regional development opportunity. Its like the trendy phrase to use on boards.`

Gombeenism is a term used when people want everything to be built in their local area for no reason other than they don't want to travel to cities and can't accept that living away from cities means you can't have all the infrastructure of a city. Building an airport in Mullingar because you don't "want to go near Dublin or any of its associated crap" is a terrible reason to make national infrastructural decisions. If you said that there was no airport nearby and that the centre of Ireland was lacking in airports, it might be worth thinking about it but Ireland is so small that no-where is far from an airport.

what i do have is a huge bunch of angry commuters on the C+T forum over rail strikes, traffic, gritting etc. God help those poor people if they maybe had a choice to live somewhere else

The same threads are full of people from outside cities complaining that Dubs have it easy, that conditions are much worse, that they haven't been able to get to work/school for weeks. Is it possible that bad weather could affect parts outside Dublin too, sometimes worse?

Was it "gombeenism" to put the Dept of Education/Ericsson/Elan offices in Athlone, some social welfare offices in Letterkenny, or other regional projects up and down the country? Ask these workers if theyd rather live in the capital

If moving any government department fulfilled a social policy, provided the same level of service to customers and came at a negligible cost, it wasn't gombeenism. What actually happened was that the staff did not want to move. Land was bought, offices were built, people were denied promotions, communication and travel expenses went up as staff were split across two locations and the whole plan came crumbling to a halt.

If, as you claim, people wanted to leave Dublin, why was decentralisation such as disaster? None of this is relevant to the topic on hand, you're just demonstrating that the only reason you want the airport is because you dislike Dublin.

When the people of Horseleap realise the airport comes with a runway and over-flights for 18 hours a day, I'm fairly sure the level of pressure local TDs will face to block it will be unprecedented.

Baboushka

markpb wrote: »

Gombeenism is a term used when people want everything to be built in their local area for no reason other than they don't want to travel to cities and can't accept that living away from cities means you can't have all the infrastructure of a city.

Want to provide a dictionary link for this? I'll bet you can't. VAM was right on this one. Gombeenism is just a silly insult, used on this site by city folk to dimiss anything suggested for other areas. As in this case there are often good reasons dismiss the suggestions but the lazy and inarticulate tend to fall back on "gombeenism" and "parish pump" to make their points.

Building an airport in Mullingar because you don't "want to go near Dublin or any of its associated crap" is a terrible reason to make national infrastructural decisions. If you said that there was no airport nearby and that the centre of Ireland was lacking in airports, it might be worth thinking about it but Ireland is so small that no-where is far from an airport.

Noone is looking to build an airport in Mullingar so it might help if you looked at a map of Ireland.

If moving any government department fulfilled a social policy, provided the same level of service to customers and came at a negligible cost, it wasn't gombeenism. What actually happened was that the staff did not want to move. Land was bought, offices were built, people were denied promotions, communication and travel expenses went up as staff were split across two locations and the whole plan came crumbling to a halt.

What actually happened was that people did not want to move to those particular locations. The biggest problem with decentralisation was that those who tried to organise it failed to understand what decentralisation is. It is not about putting something in every town and village throughout the country. It would have been more successful if it just focused on some relocations to Cork, Limerick, Galway and maybe Waterford.

If, as you claim, people wanted to leave Dublin, why was decentralisation such as disaster? None of this is relevant to the topic on hand, you're just demonstrating that the only reason you want the airport is because you dislike Dublin.

When the people of Horseleap realise the airport comes with a runway and over-flights for 18 hours a day, I'm fairly sure the level of pressure local TDs will face to block it will be unprecedented.

One thing we can agree on is that they wont have to worry about theseover-flights because this pipe-dream is never going to happen.

leonardjos

My view on Irish airports is that they are all built in the wrong place.

Shannon should've been built on the edge of Limerick city on one of the many railway lines (in service and out of service) that serve the city and hinterland.

Knock should've been built on the edge of Galway city (likewise on a railway line).

Dublin Airport should've been built in another site which had rail access to the city. Although this mistake is easiest to correct with the proposed metro line.

Do we need another subsidised airport in the wrong place? - No.

Baboushka

leonardjos wrote: »

My view on Irish airports is that they are all built in the wrong place.

Shannon should've been built on the edge of Limerick city on one of the many railway lines (in service and out of service) that serve the city and hinterland.

Knock should've been built on the edge of Galway city (likewise on a railway line).

Dublin Airport should've been built in another site which had rail access to the city. Although this mistake is easiest to correct with the proposed metro line.

Do we need another subsidised airport in the wrong place? - No.

While I dont think that the location of Dublin or Shannon are such major issues, I certainly agree with your core argument. Imagine if, rather than investing so heavily in Knock, Kerry, Sligo and Donegal; we increased the length of the runways in both Galway and Waterford. This would surely have made both cities more attractive to live in and to invest in resulting in higher populations and more cost-effective centres of population.

dowlingm

If SNN had been built closer to Limerick the Aeroflot era would have been fairly hard on those under the flight path! I remember driving to Ennis when an Il-86 was taking off - plus the smoke trails!

Canada made a massive mistake with Mirabel - a cautionary tale of locating an airport for political reasons where people don't want to go and trying to force airlines to use it. At least SNN is an ETOPS diversion airport/US airbase :rolleyes:

Chris_533976

Baboushka wrote: »

While I dont think that the location of Dublin or Shannon are such major issues, I certainly agree with your core argument. Imagine if, rather than investing so heavily in Knock, Kerry, Sligo and Donegal; we increased the length of the runways in both Galway and Waterford. This would surely have made both cities more attractive to live in and to invest in resulting in higher populations and more cost-effective centres of population.

Galway airport is too close to Shannon. Galway airport should go and Knock should be sorted. Ireland has far too many airports (and seaports, I mean for heavens sake Waterford, Rosslare AND New Ross dont need one each).

Baboushka

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Galway airport is too close to Shannon. Galway airport should go and Knock should be sorted. Ireland has far too many airports (and seaports, I mean for heavens sake Waterford, Rosslare AND New Ross dont need one each).

I agree with you but the ideal place for an airport on the West coast would have been Galway. As the earlier poster said the big mistake in this country has been the locating of infrstructure.

We do need some proper rationalising of infrastructure which makes the idea of a midlands airport even more stupid.

Neworder79

Midlands/Offaly International Airport plan has passed a major hurdle today being granted Strategic Infrastructure Status on the grounds that:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0817/1224276972609.html

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/PC0074.htm

An Bord Pleanála report ..."Having regard to the nature and scale of the proposed facility comprising, in the 1st instance, a 2.8 km long runway, 6,000 sq.m. terminal building and ancillary airport facilities, with 2 million passengers to be attained by 2020, it is my opinion that the proposed development would comprise ‘an airport (with not less than 2 million instances of passenger use per annum) or any runway, taxiway, pier, car park, terminal or other facility or installation related to it (whether as regards passenger traffic or cargo traffic)’’. I would tend to concur with the prospective applicant’s contention that it is the purpose of the size and capability of the airport that makes it strategic. The aim is to provide for 2 million passengers by 2020 with the applicant providing supporting information to corroborate its claims that such a target is attainable."

An Bord Pleanála report ..." In terms of the criteria set out in section 37(2) and without addressing the specific planning
merits, in my view, the proposed development would:
(a) be of strategic economic importance to the region and the state in that it is aiming to provide a reliever airport to Dublin airport and increase competition in the aviation market.
(b) contribute to the realisation of the objectives of the National Spatial Strategy by improving accessibility and connectivity in the Midlands region which could assist in the improvement in the economic performance within the gateway.
(c) by reason of the scale of the project, in such close proximity to County
Westmeath would be likely to have a significant effect on the area of more than one planning authority."

Plans submitted to An Board Pleanala include:

2.7km long and 60 metre wide runway (with the potential for its expansion to 3.5km)
with a capacity to accommodate 9 million passengers.
• 6,000 sqm. terminal building with capacity for 2 million passengers.
• Ancillary aviation services including cargo related business, hangars/maintenance
building, fire station, control tower.
• Carparking
• Business Park

"The proposed project is to act as a reliever airport for Dublin and is expected to reach 2 million passengers per annum by 2020. There is potential for cargo business at 50,000 tonnes per annum. A rail line and station within the airport, which will connect to the Dublin-Galway rail line to the south, is proposed."

dubhthach

If the airport ever gets built and Ryanair decided to operate out of it then I can expect it to be branded "Dublin West International Airport" :rolleyes:

Sponge Bob

dubhthach wrote: »

If the airport ever gets built and Ryanair decided to operate out of it then I can expect it to be branded "Dublin West International Airport" :rolleyes:

Liverpool West would be a typical Ryanair name for something like this

saywhatyousee

this is madness all these airports are ridiculous
waterford,donegal,sligo,galway,kerry
i would close them all
it madness to think ireland has 8 international airports:eek:

veryangryman

saywhatyousee wrote: »

this is madness all these airports are ridiculous
waterford,donegal,sligo,galway,kerry
i would close them all
it madness to think ireland has 8 international airports:eek:

Dude. Until the Infrastructure gets sorted, every one is needed.

Kerry long way from Cork/Shannon on crap roads
Donegal long way from Derry on crap roads
Sligo (not far but) from Knock on crap roads
Galway long way from Knock/Shannon on crap roads
Waterford long way from Cork on mainly crap roads

Find a comparative country in size and population and check wiki for its airport list. You might be surprised at the findings

Godge

veryangryman wrote: »

Dude. Until the Infrastructure gets sorted, every one is needed.

Kerry long way from Cork/Shannon on crap roads
Donegal long way from Derry on crap roads
Sligo (not far but) from Knock on crap roads
Galway long way from Knock/Shannon on crap roads
Waterford long way from Cork on mainly crap roads

Find a comparative country in size and population and check wiki for its airport list. You might be surprised at the findings

What is a long way? Tired driving from Luton into London or Hahn into Frankfurt?

If we improved access to Shannon by building a bridge across the Shannon north of Limerick, it would be just over 2 hours to West Dublin. Adding in the tunnel and the upgrade of the Cork/Limerick road and the Limerick/Galway road, over 80% of the population would be within two hours of Shannon, Belfast or Dublin. Why need any more airports?

Zebra3

I don't think this is about building one international airport in the midlands.

The real decision is do we build two international airports in the midlands. I mean if people from Westmeath don't want to drive up to Dublin cos of its "associated crap", what happens if they don't like any associated crap of Offaly if we build one there?

Best to be on the safe side....












:rolleyes:

At least if we have an airport in the midlands, we won't need to pay any more road tolls!

Sponge Bob

I could kind of understand this project if the runway were as long as Dublin Runway 2 ( proposed) for the ultra long haul traffic Dublin cannot handle as it cannot take off fully loaded and which runway is not to be built for quite some some time in Dublin.

This would require 3100 metres of runway not 2700 metres just like the 'too short' Runway 1 in Dublin now has.

Shannon has 3200 metres of runway and can handle ultra large ultra long haul planes, seen them myself down there.

Replicating Dublin Runway 1 seems utterly pointless to me.

dubhthach

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Shannon has 3200 metres of runway and can handle ultra large ultra long haul planes, seen them myself down there.

Replicating Dublin Runway 1 seems utterly pointless to me.

Shannon's runway is also designated as an emergency landing site for the Space Shuttle (if they overshoot florida on landing). It was also one of the sites on the Soviet Nuclear target list, as they reckoned they US would use it for troop transport if the cold war turned hot.

veryangryman

Godge wrote: »

What is a long way? Tired driving from Luton into London or Hahn into Frankfurt?

100 miles on a good road vs 100 miles on a bad road. It becomes about time, which i think you understand by the unquoted part of your post.

By all means close down 2-3 of that list when we get DC sorted on all interurbans + Atlantic corridoor. But were looking at 20 years before that is realistic. For now, i stick with my point that they are needed to avoid rural isolation for quite alot of the country's citzens