Arctic ARW units and RAF in rescue mission in Glen of imaal.

Morpheus

from www.breakingnews.ie

Elite Irish troops were today airlifted onto Leinster’s highest mountain to help rescue teams find two climbers stranded overnight.

Four helicopters and dozens of personnel drawn from Ireland, the North and Wales are involved in the high-level operation on Lugnacoille in Co Wicklow.
The two Irish climbers, who are aged in their 30s, became disorientated in freezing fog at 4pm yesterday.
They were forced to spend the night on the mountain but have remained in mobile phone contact with rescue teams.
“There is zero visibility on the mountain at the moment. The two men can hear the helicopters but cannot see them,” said an Irish Coast Guard spokeswoman.
“It is believed the men may be close to the summit.”
Some 50 members of the Army Ranger Wing (ARW) with Arctic survival skills were dropped into the area by Air Corps helicopters today after they were diverted from nearby drills in the Glen of Imaal military zone.
Teams from Co Wicklow, Co Kerry and Newcastle, Co Down are also assisting the search, led by Glen of Imaal Mountain Rescue.
A RAF Sea King helicopter flew in a rescue team from Wales while an Irish Coastguard helicopter from Waterford also transported a civilian rescue unit across the Irish Sea from nearby Ogwen Valley.
Lugnacoille is about 925m (3,035ft) high and its base is located close to Glenmalure, about 105km (65 miles) south of Dublin.
Met Éireann forecast sleet and snow across high ground in the central Wicklow area today.
The RAF admitted it was unusual for its personnel to get involved in an Irish mountain rescue operation.
“Our colleagues in Ireland requested our assistance and we are happy to help,” said a spokesman for the RAF Rescue Centre at Kinloss in Scotland.
“It is very unusual for UK assets to deploy in this way, especially a civilian team, but when lives are at risk everyone with the expertise who can help wants to help.”
He added: “We are united in giving this search our very best shot. Conditions are improving and we hope and pray for a good outcome.”
The Defence Forces confirmed two Air Corps AW 139 helicopters are also assisting the Glen of Imaal Mountain Rescue Team and Irish Coast Guard in the ongoing search.
“The Army Rangers were diverted to the Glen of Imaal from a training exercise to carry out searches in the general area around Lugnaquilla Mountain (925 metres/3,034 feet) and Slievemaan (759 metres/2,490 feet),” said a spokesman.
“They have been dropped by helicopter to search areas this morning. This unit has personnel qualified in Arctic survival skills.
“Other local military staff from Coolmooney Camp in the Glen of Imaal were assisting and co-ordinating with Glen of Imaal Mountain Rescue throughout last night.”
The alarm was raised at about 9.30pm last night by Army personnel in the Glen of Imaal.
The Coast Guard helicopter was scrambled but was forced back from the mountain by poor visibility.
“The situation is ongoing and developing,” added a Department of Transport spokeswoman today.

Morpheus

The story continues, again from www.breakingnews.ie

well done to all teams and assets involved.

Two climbers found:

Two climbers stranded for nearly 24 hours in freezing conditions on Leinster’s highest mountain were found safe and are being airlifted to hospital this afternoon.

The Irish pair were located close to the summit of Lugnaquilla in Co Wicklow after a massive ground and air operation involving Irish and British rescue teams backed by the Defence Forces.

In one of the biggest rescues ever mounted in the area, up to 50 members of the elite Army Ranger Wing were assisted by helicopters scrambled by the Irish Coast Guard, the Air Corps and the RAF.

“The two men were located after 12.30pm in an area close to the summit known as the South Prison,” said a spokesman for the Defence Forces’ Operations Cell in the Curragh.

“An Air Corps helicopter immediately dropped medics and equipment to the scene.

“Members of the Army Rangers Wing and civilian mountain rescue personnel are currently assisting the men.

“They will be moved to lower ground and Air Corps helicopters are on standby to airlift them to hospital.”

The two climbers, who are aged in their 30s, became disorientated in freezing fog at 4pm yesterday.

They were forced to spend the night on the mountain but have remained in mobile phone contact with rescue teams.

Army Rangers with Arctic survival skills were dropped into the area from helicopters after being diverted from nearby drills in the Glen of Imaal military zone.

Teams from Co Wicklow, Co Kerry and Newcastle, Co Down also assisted the search, led by the Glen of Imaal Mountain Rescue Team.

A RAF Sea King helicopter also flew in a specialist military rescue team from RAF Valley in Wales while an Irish Coast Guard helicopter from Waterford also transported a civilian rescue unit across the Irish Sea from the Ogwen Valley.

Lugnaquilla is about 925m (3,035ft) high and its base is located close to Glenmalure, about 105km (65 miles) south of Dublin.

The RAF admitted it was unusual for its personnel to get involved in an Irish mountain rescue operation.

“It is very unusual for UK assets to deploy in this way, especially a civilian team, but when lives are at risk everyone with the expertise who can help wants to help,” said a spokesman for the RAF Rescue Centre at Kinloss in Scotland.

The RAF team was specifically trained and equipped for high Alpine rescue conditions.
The Army Rangers unit has personnel qualified in Arctic survival skills. Other local Defence Forces staff from Coolmooney Camp in the Glen of Imaal assisted rescue efforts overnight.

The alarm was raised at about 9.30pm last night by Army personnel in the Glen of Imaal.

The Coast Guard helicopter was then scrambled but was forced back from the mountain by poor visibility.

concussion

Good too see that so many assets can be acquired so quickly.

A GPS fix might have helped things along, seeing as they were in phone contact...

Mr. Presentable

Who is going to foot the bill? For two men old enough to know better. I am of the opinion there should be insurance in place before people go "hill walking" in what are patently unsafe conditions. Or they should have to pay from whatever means they have.

What would the cost of this have been?

Fratton Fred

it sounds a bit OTT, what price for two lives eh?

If the ARW were in the area then surely the cost of them nipping over to help out is nothing and I'm sure for most of those involved it was good to do something for real rather than just training, especially with the succesful outcome.

Leadership

Fratton Fred wrote: »

it sounds a bit OTT, what price for two lives eh?

If the ARW were in the area then surely the cost of them nipping over to help out is nothing and I'm sure for most of those involved it was good to do something for real rather than just training, especially with the succesful outcome.

Makes perfect sense to me much better than sat in a bivi.

The British probably enjoyed the "incursion" and would not bill for it

Tabnabs

nipplenuts wrote: »

Who is going to foot the bill? For two men old enough to know better. I am of the opinion there should be insurance in place before people go "hill walking" in what are patently unsafe conditions. Or they should have to pay from whatever means they have.

What would the cost of this have been?

How much does it cost the tax payer when the ARW are on manoeuvres abroad? Where do you think they learnt their Arctic survival skills? Fuel for the AW139 when on training flights? The military is not a business and can never present an invoice to someone they rescue, the same for the emergency services. How many road traffic accidents involve the emergency services daily, their insurance doesn't cover call outs and man hours?

However, the mountain rescue teams could do with a nice big donation as they are purely voluntary organisation and their websites have the donation buttons clearly displayed.

Just be grateful that two men are safe and with their families tonight.

vulcan57

Leadership wrote: »

Makes perfect sense to me much better than sat in a bivi.

The British probably enjoyed the "incursion" and would not bill for it

Nice to see the co-operation between the british and Irish on such a service. This kind of rescue is good for the rescue services from both sides of the Irish sea as we never know when this kind of co-operation might be needed again, maybe next time the tables might be turned and the ARW might be called on to help in the UK. Well done to all involved and thank god they were found ok. You never know this lead to a possible joint exercise or something.

iceage

+1 to the last two posts, great to see all these agencies and bodys being able to cooperate. thankfully it turned out well with two survivors all to often this is not the case in these circumstances and we see the teams returning with bodies.

A billy Connelly sketch springs to mind " Ben Nevis in khaki shorts n' sand shoes!" it seems that the two men concerned were at least someway equipped and prepared to spend the night after being told to go to ground. Cracking job by all concerned.

Poccington

Absolutely delighted to see our lads and the Brits work together. I'm even happier to see how eager both sides were to get the job done together, we've come a long way over the years and it's a great thing to see.

concussion

Poccington wrote: »

Absolutely delighted to see our lads and the Brits work together.

vulcan57 wrote: »

Nice to see the co-operation between the british and Irish on such a service.

Leadership wrote: »

The British probably enjoyed the "incursion" and would not bill for it

'All stations this is 0 - take precautions for possible barstool shinner rant. Acknowledge, over'

Poccington

concussion wrote: »

'All stations this is 0 - take precautions for possible barstool shinner rant. Acknowledge, over'

'1 - wilco, out'

iceage

2-Roger, out..:D:rolleyes:

iceage

A major whipround me thinks for the Mountain Rescue from these two lads.

Borneo Fnctn

So two posh gits got lost and had to call the emergency services? Glad to hear they're safe and I hope this at least reminds people to take due care when going into the great outdoors.

concussion

Seems they were on their way down and got caught out by the weather, lost their map and spent 5 hours trying to get down before making the call. They're reported as being experienced mountaineers so it looks like a case of bad luck rather than a couple of lads going off doing something stupid.
They're being treated for exposure and hypothermia.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0210/wicklow.html
Video
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0210/wicklow_av.html?2489756,null,230

jackpalance wrote: »

So two posh gits got lost and had to call the emergency services? Glad to hear they're safe and I hope this at least reminds people to take due care when going into the great outdoors.

Posh gits?

Borneo Fnctn

concussion wrote: »

Posh gits?

Sorry just an assumption.

concussion

Ah yeah, I heard the same thing.

neilled

concussion wrote: »

'All stations this is 0 - take precautions for possible barstool shinner rant. Acknowledge, over'

Prepared to seize barstool and deny food, feeding trough and comfort to the enemy! :D:D

cyrusdvirus

vulcan57 wrote: »

, maybe next time the tables might be turned and the ARW might be called on to help in the UK.

please tell me you taking the mickey right?
The thing is do you HONESTLY reckon that there were members of the SAS aboard that RAF Sea King?? Cos that's what you're implying there.

Don't get me wrong, I have as much respect for the ARW as a civvie can have, but there is no way that i can see the SAS being involved in a SAR mission in Wickla'....

Sleipnir

Who mentioned the SAS?

cyrusdvirus

Sleipnir wrote: »

Who mentioned the SAS?

The SAS are the UK equivalent of the ARW.

If ,as Vulcan would like to see, the tables are turned and the ARW are deployed to the UK to help in an SAR mission, then (to my admittedly mischievous mood this morning) it implies that the SAS were over here helping find the 2 lads yesterday.

twinytwo

gatecrash wrote: »

The SAS are the UK equivalent of the ARW.

If ,as Vulcan would like to see, the tables are turned and the ARW are deployed to the UK to help in an SAR mission, then (to my admittedly mischievous mood this morning) it implies that the SAS were over here helping find the 2 lads yesterday.

I do highly doubt that... Firstly thay have more important things to be doing. Secondly were the RAF to just swing by Hereford,London or Birmingham on the way here?? Thirdly and im open to correction on this ... you cant just drop soldiers into another country...... this is prob heading for the mitty:rolleyes:

Sleipnir

gatecrash wrote: »

The SAS are the UK equivalent of the ARW.

If ,as Vulcan would like to see, the tables are turned and the ARW are deployed to the UK to help in an SAR mission, then (to my admittedly mischievous mood this morning) it implies that the SAS were over here helping find the 2 lads yesterday.

No, he said "maybe next time the tables might be turned and the ARW might be called on to help in the UK."

So, maybe the U.K. would need the Irish Army Ranger Wing to help in a rescue in the U.K.

Dunno how you got "the SAS were in the Sea King" from that.

The SAS don't do rescue. THe ARW was just helping out, that's all

Tabnabs

I believe it was a Welsh mountain rescue team that the RAF brought over. Civilians can fit into RAF choppers too

Morpheus

It was a RAF Mountain Rescue Service team from RAF Valley that was flown over by the RAF heli. Not some spec ops unit.

Our waterford based coastguard chopper picked up another civilian mountain rescue team from wales
and brought THEM over.

The Rangers were called in as they have high altitude and arctic survival training.

Before this gets booted to mitty land read more here about the UK assets involved:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Air_Force_Mountain_Rescue_Service_(United_Kingdom)#Current_organization_and_deployment

concussion

Morphéus wrote: »

The Rangers were called in as they have high altitude and arctic survival training

....and were on a training exercise in the Glen at the time

Morpheus

We know that, but I assume that they would have been called in ANYWAY because of the conditions up there. They are among the select few in this country with any experience of working and surviving in an environment like that.

vulcan57

gatecrash wrote: »

please tell me you taking the mickey right?
The thing is do you HONESTLY reckon that there were members of the SAS aboard that RAF Sea King?? Cos that's what you're implying there.

...

Excuse me, my friend, I am not suggesting or implying, for one minute that the SAS were in Wicklow yesterday, nor did it even enter my mind!. The RAF sent an MRT over without thought along with a rescue helicopter from RAF Valley, fair play to them, and the ARW did a sterling job putting their arctic training to good use. All I was suggesting was exactly as I had writen it that maybe if a simular situation arose in the UK that the Irish would respond with equal enthusiasm as the british did in this case.

100gSoma

Leadership wrote: »

The British probably enjoyed the "incursion" and would not bill for it

LMAO... :D

100gSoma

Sleipnir wrote: »

The SAS don't do rescue.

Sure they do, but generally it involves hostages not hillwalkers.:D

cyrusdvirus

vulcan57 wrote: »

Excuse me, my friend, I am not suggesting or implying, for one minute that the SAS were in Wicklow yesterday, nor did it even enter my mind!. The RAF sent an MRT over without thought along with a rescue helicopter from RAF Valley, fair play to them, and the ARW did a sterling job putting their arctic training to good use. All I was suggesting was exactly as I had written it that maybe if a similar situation arose in the UK that the Irish would respond with equal enthusiasm as the British did in this case.

I DID say i was in a mischievous mood!

I was just reading it from 'outside the box' so to speak... You saying that the ARW would go to England on an SAR when they are the elite unit in the Irish Defence Forces to turn the tables..... Kinda implies that the SAS (as the elite unit in the British Armed Forces) were here on this SAR....

twinytwo

gatecrash wrote: »

I DID say i was in a mischievous mood!

I was just reading it from 'outside the box' so to speak... You saying that the ARW would go to England on an SAR when they are the elite unit in the Irish Defence Forces to turn the tables..... Kinda implies that the SAS (as the elite unit in the British Armed Forces) were here on this SAR....

You mean one of the elite units...... If you were in a "mischievous mood" why not stick in the mitty ??.. thats what its there for:pac:

cyrusdvirus

cos i don't know how to move an entire thread

Morpheus

This is my thread.

I dont want it moved.

SAS were not involved, ARW were, im sure if british requested it we would send all we could including military specialist rescue / EOD etc teams if necessary.

NoQuarter

DELTA were involved too



/end trolling

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

nipplenuts wrote: »

Who is going to foot the bill? For two men old enough to know better. I am of the opinion there should be insurance in place before people go "hill walking" in what are patently unsafe conditions. Or they should have to pay from whatever means they have.

What would the cost of this have been?

GTFO, AH is that way

---

>

I am sure you would take out the chequebook immediately after being rescued. Pfft!!!

Fishtits

The guys were found all OK, Good outcome.

But, "they lost their map"

Piss poor performance to put it mildly,

I get the feeling that they were buddy's of the local rescue organisations, hence the lack of criticism and the "every" resource available being called...

Local-womanizer

The conditions were perfect when they set off.

Weather deterioreted rapidly,map blew away.These two where experiance hikers where they not?

The fact that the ARW took time out of their training to search for these people must have some indication to the conditions.The climbers could hear the chopper above them but couldent see it because of the fog.

Who gives a s***e what the cost were in fairness.How do you think their families would feel if they had died because nobody looked for them for fear of public backlash over the cost.

Fair play to all involved in the rescue imo.Its good to know people are willing to risk there lives for strangers.

Its a sad time when people start putting a price on peoples lives.........

BigDuffman

Nice to see people putting a value on human life... who cares about the cost I'd prefer to shell out a few shillings than leave to lads out to die.

Also its good to see we have so many super-men on this board. After reading an account of the ordeal it is glaringly obvious that this could of happened to even the most experienced of us. White out conditions, no map and with nightfall steadily approaching I'm sure ye keyboard warriors and chairborne rangers could of skipped merrily down the side of the mountain.

The very fact that it took experienced MRTs and the ARW so long to find the lads even though they were in contact by mobile phone is an indication of how treacherous the conditions were.

According to accounts, one of the lads in question actually lived in the shadow of the mountain and knew it like the back of his hand. The fact that both were experienced mountaineers probably saved their life.

BeardyGit

Fishtits wrote: »

I get the feeling that they were buddy's of the local rescue organisations, hence the lack of criticism and the "every" resource available being called...

You're very mistaken. That's a bit of an offensive presumption you've made there....

Mates Rates don't apply for Mountain Rescue. We'd mobilise every required asset and resource to rescue anyone who needs it, whether or not they know people on an MRT. The simple fact is that MRT members are mountaineers, and therefore know or will have at least met at some time other mountaineers. Especially those who visit the same hills we train and operate on - It's an inevitability I guess....

Your suggestion is akin to inferring a member of the fire brigade would use the 'better' tools to cut a friend from a car wreck than he would a normal Joe Soap. Does that sound offensive to you? Because it certainly does to me.

As to whether or not MRT's were 'critical', I'd suggest you review the facts pertaining to the incident, not just your cursory knowledge gleaned from misreports in the media, apply some common sense and relevant personal experience (which I suspect you may not have as a mountaineer), then come back and tell me exactly what we should criticise them for. The guys had a mishap, lost their map to a c70Kph wind (I lost my glove to the same wind when trying to change radio channels), and ended up spending a hellish night on an exposed mountainside in truly arctic conditions. What would you criticise in the middle of an operation to save them?

In fact, tell me when we're EVER critical of someone who's found themselves in need of our care and services. Go on....you won't find it. We'll certainly alert people to an opportunity to do things differently in future, but what purpose will it serve to publicly hammer two men who've genuinely suffered through an ordeal like that?

We're simply happy we could all play a part in saving the lives of two men. Who or what they are doesn't matter to us. A second night on the hills would have killed them, I've no doubt in my mind of that, having spent 9+ hours near the summit myself on Monday night.....

Thanks for the support from those of you in the Defense Forces all around this country who never fail to wade in with your local MRT's, and to the Irish public in general for helping us out by fundraising and donating towards our costs. It's genuinely appreciated and is the difference between having our service or not.

Gil

www.dwmrt.ie

Rew

Sleipnir wrote: »

The SAS don't do rescue. THe ARW was just helping out, that's all

Really? What about hostage rescue? I aslo belive that the SAS were deployed in to Lowes Gully in Malaysia to rescue 18 brit soldiers who got lost/trapped. They also were involved in the imediate aftermath of a passanger plane crash in the UK (pure chance that they were driving by when it happend). So i reckon they do plenty of rescue jsut not in this case.

BigDuffman

Rew wrote: »

Really? What about hostage rescue? I aslo belive that the SAS were deployed in to Lowes Gully in Malaysia to rescue 18 brit soldiers who got lost/trapped. They also were involved in the imediate aftermath of a passanger plane crash in the UK (pure chance that they were driving by when it happend). So i reckon they do plenty of rescue jsut not in this case.

Very off topic bu was that an Andy Mcnabb or Chris Ryan book that detaild the "Them" stopping to lend a hand at the crash site?

Rew

BigDuffman wrote: »

Very off topic bu was that an Andy Mcnabb or Chris Ryan book that detaild the "Them" stopping to lend a hand at the crash site?

No it was in another book (or two) that I compleatly forgot the name of it but it had nothing to do with either of them.

Rew

Rew wrote: »

No it was in another book (or two) that I compleatly forgot the name of it but it had nothing to do with either of them.

Found it, SAS The Soldiers Story


Bit of googling to remind me of the title:

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/British-Midland-Flight-092

In the book SAS The Soldiers Story an SAS trooper named Johnny Two-Combs describes how, on the way to a training course, he and his troop were traveling along the M1 when the air crash happened. The unit offered to help and in the news footage of the wrecked aircraft, a member of the team can be seen rappelling down from the tail of the plane. The Army truck is also visible in some photos.

My memmory of the book is that he said the photos showed their climbing gear securing the tail of the aircraft from moving/falling not that someone was abing off it!

tricky D

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Its a sad time when people start putting a price on peoples lives.........

Well actuaries put prices on lives all the time and would likely point out that the cost to the economy of losing just one person in these circumstances would be much much greater than the rescue costs. Anyway that's merely an academic argument.



Anybody knows a bit about rescues, who has been involved and/or who lives by the sea or other dangerous area, would think that making anyone pay for rescuing is an absurd notion. Most rescues are due to accidents, they happen, plain and simple. Very, very rarely is sheer stupdity or wilful negligence to blame which would only usually be established after the fact anyway.


Tip o' the hat to all involved.

trentf

I have a question. Nobody seems to have asked this. What was the RAF doing on our soil? Did we need them? Could this not have been handled by the arw in conjunction with the irish coast gaurd? I mean they have the equipment so just curious as to why the raf or members of the raf were called into what is essentially soverign terroritory.

If we asked them then i have an issue with this as it raises some questions as to why we couldn't have handled it ourselves seeing as it was on our territory.

The following line i find unusual.

'

A RAF Sea King helicopter also flew in a specialist military rescue team from RAF Valley in Wales while an Irish Coast Guard helicopter from Waterford also transported a civilian rescue unit across the Irish Sea from the Ogwen Valley.

Lugnaquilla is about 925m (3,035ft) high and its base is located close to Glenmalure, about 105km (65 miles) south of Dublin.

The RAF admitted it was unusual for its personnel to get involved in an Irish mountain rescue operation.

Yes thank you very much RAF but they are citizens of the republic of ireland not the u.k. I am happy they found the climbers but why do we have to rely on the u.k for these things? Surely in 2009 we should have our own mountain rescue specialist teams. I mean i know during times of major disaster, earthquakes, tsunami's etc countries send rescue teams to help other countries but this was 2 hikers lost on a mountain near our capital. I am the only one uncomforable with this? I don't mind interoperability in the irish sea but on our soil, over our airspace?

“It is very unusual for UK assets to deploy in this way, especially a civilian team, but when lives are at risk everyone with the expertise who can help wants to help,” said a spokesman for the RAF Rescue Centre at Kinloss in Scotland.'

Yes its also very unusual and presumptious of the RAF to assume we needed the help or that you had a right to deploy over irish territory. This has now set a prescendent as it means the RAF have operated sending a 'military specialist' team over our territory with little or no reaction from the irish public. In fact most of the comments here are thanking the RAF?? So in the future the RAF can operate over our airspace and what we do nothing? They are obviously testing us to see our reactions. In the end of the day this is a seperate country from the u.k although over the last few years i notice how the british media and elements of it has increasingly included the republic of ireland as part of their territory in weather broadcasts, commericals, business enterprises, this and how our politicians seem to always mimic parlimentary decisions in the u.k.

Seems like they didn't need to fight a war to take us over after all.

It wasn't me!

I sincerely doubt the assistance was unwelcome. Only a complete plank would refuse help when two lives are at stake. In those conditions, the more manpower on the ground, the better the survival chances of the two climbers. If we as a nation still have a chip on our shoulder that prevents us accepting the intervention and assistance of a superbly trained unit to save the lives of our citizens, then we've got a massive problem and need to grow up and move on and operate alongside our international counterparts.

It comes down to what's more important: some arrogant assumption that we have plenty of manpower and shouldn't accept international assistance, especially from the British, or the lives of the two men. I for one am glad the RAF were happy to help, as I'm sure are those two men and their families and friends. We need to be able to work together, and this operation is a wonderful example of mature cooperation.

So in the future the RAF can operate over our airspace and what we do nothing? They are obviously testing us to see our reactions. In the end of the day this is a seperate country from the u.k although over the last few years i notice how the british media and elements of it has increasingly included the republic of ireland as part of their territory in weather broadcasts, commericals, business enterprises, this and how our politicians seem to always mimic parlimentary decisions in the u.k.

Seems like they didn't need to fight a war to take us over after all.

You have got to be feckin' joking, right? Yeah, I really think the British are thinking of reviving their colonial past, starting here. Good man. We're two nations with the fact that we're islands in common, just off the west coast of Europe; we share a lot of common attributes and are clearly the same market to commercial interests, as well as sharing weather patterns. Any similarities in our parliamentary decisions are a product of the fact that our circumstances are largely the same in nature if not in scale and our tendency to elect weak governments who don't make their own decisions well. Seriously, this national chip on our shoulders is ridiculous at this point. Will we have Gordon Brown making snide comments about Hitler in talks with Germany next?

trentf

Yes im glad the two men were saved too. Im not complaining about that. Im saying in 2009 we should have all the assets we need to carry out this operation on our own without the need for a team to be flown from the u.k.

It wasn't at some far flung point between ireland and the u.k, it was near our capital on our territory. Why we need an RAF military specialist team flown from wales is beyond me and more worryingly nobody sees a problem with it.


If a french military specialist team fly over london to help rescue 2 men there would be uproar in the u.k, here we thank them instead of asking why we didn't have the resources to do it ourselves. What happens if more then 2 men go missing in the future this has now set a prescendent as i have pointed out because it would mean we would need more 'outside' resources to help. Don't understand the logic behind it at all and suspect there are more sinister reasons behind it, i.e more presence of the RAF over our airspace.

Interoperability is fine with the u.k in times of major disaster or on neutral grounds between 2 countries or when the assets are required i.e not when 2 men are missing.

It wasn't me!

trentf wrote: »

Yes im glad the two men were saved too. Im not complaining about that. Im saying in 2009 we should have all the assets we need to carry out this operation on our own without the need for a team to be flown from the u.k.

It wasn't at some far flung point between ireland and the u.k, it was near our capital on our territory. Why we need an RAF military specialist team flown from wales is beyond me and more worryingly nobody sees the problem with it.


If a french military specialist team fly over london to help rescue 2 men there would be uproar in the u.k, here we thank them instead of asking why we didn't have the resources to do it ourselves. What happens if more then 2 men go missing in the future this has now set a prescendent as i have pointed out because it would mean we would need more 'outside' resources to help. Don't understand the logic behind it at all.

We don't invest in our defence forces/armed forces/rescue personnel to the extent that Britain does, unfortunately, and we don't have the money allocated to do so. It is of course a problem, but we currently don't have a government that cares enough to invest in such areas and is happy to rely on outside help.

trentf

It wasn't me! wrote: »

We don't invest in our defence forces/armed forces/rescue personnel to the extent that Britain does, unfortunately, and we don't have the money allocated to do so. It is of course a problem, but we currently don't have a government that cares enough to invest in such areas and is happy to rely on outside help.

I think we do have enough resources, especially since it was near baldonnel. We have 6 arw helicopters, 8 actually, 2 coastgaurd helicopters and 50 arw members plus rescue mountain teams and emergency personnel. We can invest in more and need. I'd gladly fork out taxpayers money to avoid the embarrassment and unwillingness of having the RAF flying over our territory.