Who pays for the rescue?

peasant

Those two eejits that got stuck on top of a Wicklow mountain over night have now been found alive and well ...good for them.

But who pays for their rescue?

Up to four different helicopters and umpteen people where involved in the search ..is Mr John Q. Taxpayer liable for that or will those two be handed the bill?

What were they doing up there in these conditions in the first place?

whiskeyman

Apparently it comes out of some slush fund from frozen accounts...

tba

Was it not the rangers that found them in the end? Those guys are fricken awesome.

Call Me Jimmy

Are you talking about power rangers?

Professey Chin

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Are you talking about power rangers?

The pink one can resuce me anytime

tba

I'm sick of supplementing those "power rangers" on their little forays of "mutual protection", supposedly in our name, only to see the city destroyed again. I think we should hold a protest to have their wages reduced.

Pyr0

The Rangers found them ? Jaysus, I'd be praying the weren't pissed about having to find 2 blokes stuck up in the mountains when they could be on a mad sekkrit mission somewhere.

Turd Ferguson

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58946058&postcount=1


Interesting.....

lucylu

some reports say they were snowboarding ....
they should be made pay for the rescue teams and coast guards
:mad::mad::mad:

tba

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58946058&postcount=1


Interesting.....

Its says he is online now, can't be him, they are still trapped in the valley and can't.....

Wait, maybe he has a laptop with WIFI!

Crash

I heard those zords only get about .000204 miles to the gallon as well, I hope they're offsetting their carbon footpring - out of OUR taxpayers money though!

blue4ever

I was told in that past that if the air sea rescue plucks you out of the sea and its found that you have contributed greatly to your own endangerment - then you have to cough up a good few bills. Which if you think about it, is reasonable.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

peasant wrote: »

Those two eejits that got stuck on top of a Wicklow mountain over night have now been found alive and well ...good for them.

But who pays for their rescue?

Up to four different helicopters and umpteen people where involved in the search ..is Mr John Q. Taxpayer liable for that or will those two be handed the bill?

What were they doing up there in these conditions in the first place?

Snowboarding, it's obvious you know very little about it, the taxpayer pays for it, and God forbid you get stuck up any mountain, I surely won't pay for you to be rescued.

We should unite and stand against this unbelievable waste of taxpayers money, saving lives, who do they think they are. Our money should be spent on doing Harney's nails, and flying biffo first class around the world. What a bloody waste of money, what's the world comming to, eh?

tba

Audrey Prehistoric Barefaced wrote: »

Snowboarding, it's obvious you know very little about it, the taxpayer pays for it, and God forbid you get stuck up any mountain, I surely won't pay for you to be rescued.

We should unite and stand against this unbelievable waste of taxpayers money, saving lives, who do they think they are. Our money should be spent on doing Harney's nails, and flying biffo first class around the world. What a bloody waste of money, what's the world comming to, eh?

shut the **** up

peasant

Audrey Prehistoric Barefaced wrote: »

Snowboarding, it's obvious you know very little about it, the taxpayer pays for it, and God forbid you get stuck up any mountain, I surely won't pay for you to be rescued.

As it happens, I know a thing or two about mountaineering ..that's why wouldn't go up there in freezing fog conditions in the first place ...snowboard or no snowboard.

They weren't "rescued" ...they had to be plucked off the mountain back home to mammy where they should have staid in the first place.

Showing someone the way home does not equal rescue just because it involves helicopters in this case.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

peasant wrote: »

As it happens, I know a thing or two about mountaineering ..that's why wouldn't go up there in freezing fog conditions in the first place ...snowboard or no snowboard.

They weren't "rescued" ...they had to be plucked off the mountain back home to mammy where they should have staid in the first place.

Showing someone the way home does not equal rescue just because it involves helicopters in this case.

Pfft,

I wouldn't go up in it either, have been up on lug and table top mountain a number of times myself. Thing is, there was snow, they went snowboarding, they got into a bit of bother, I don't see the reason for your rant. It happens. People go missing in that area every so often, it's unfortunate but it's not going to stop anytime soon.

Got a problem TBA?

javaboy

tba wrote: »

shut the **** up

There's no need for that. Play nice.

peasant

Audrey Prehistoric Barefaced wrote: »

People go missing in that area every so often, it's unfortunate but it's not going to stop anytime soon.

No of course not, not as long as any tom Dick and Hariette can go up there regardless of preparation or conditions in the sure knowledge that they'll be picked off again free of charge in case it goes wrong

I'm not saying to let these people die up there, but charge them for the search and the lift down.

XXNikXX

well the people in the mountain rescue teams are all volunteers and its a completely free service that they provide, not sure but i think if the coast guard helicopters get called in they do it for free too..

but of course all donations are welcomed

Fulton Crown

Rather trite replies to a good question in my humble opinion.

Surely it should be clear if these guys were careless and reckless in their approach and needlessly put rescuers and other lives at risk.

To say they were up there because "there was snow" is just not good enough,,did they follow the precautions everybody should know about ..letting people know where they were going / bringing suffiecient supplies etc etc.

If they didn't - then a nice fat bill from said John Q Taxpayer might teach them and other potential gimps a bit of a lesson.

By the way the mountain rescue people may be volunteers but they are in receipt of a grant for equipment /training / clothing etc (and rightly so) so the service is not entirely "free" .... yeah John Q again.!

Takeshi_Kovacs

To be honest, keeping these sar helicopters in the air is money well spent... certainly more so, than all these frickeing 'expenses' that TD's claim.

Sir Gallagher

Jesus Christ, is this how petty people in this country are becoming! We should be just happy that the two people in questioned are safe.

What if they weren't found and died as a result? Everyone would be on here saying its an absolute disgrace that our rescue services weren't able to do anything about it and weren't up to the job. Then you'd have people saying, "hey, why isn't there not more money from taxes being put into these services?".

Two peoples lives were saved and all some people can do is moan about is who paid for it! Only in Ireland.

Mr. Presentable

There has to be responsibility taken, and culpability. The whole country knew it was bad out there, so why should we spend money that should go on Vaccines for 12 year old girls to rescue morons off snowy, fog-bound mountains. They should be required to pay due to their majority contribution to their situation.

Mr. Presentable

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Jesus Christ, is this how petty people in this country are becoming! We should be just happy that the two people in questioned are safe.

What if they weren't found and died as a result? Everyone would be on here saying its an absolute disgrace that our rescue services weren't able to do anything about it and weren't up to the job. Then you'd have people saying, "hey, why isn't there not more money from taxes being put into these services?".

Two peoples lives were saved and all some people can do is moan about is who paid for it! Only in Ireland.

I am happy two lives were saved. But had they died, I and others would be decrying them for the irresponsibility and stupidity of being out there in the first place.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

If they are so reckless then maybe, but you know what would happen then?

"I'm not ringing any ambulance/police/rescue service, i'll be charged for it"

They cover it anyway, by wasting time they can be charged and fined. If we start charging people for this, then everyone who rings the emergency services, any of the services, should be charged. Including people who smoke, who ate too much bacon and fatty foods over the years, who drink etc etc. You cannot say we should charge for mountain rescue and not charge for any of the other services. They are free so people will use them. If you are lying in the ditch dying because of your own stupidity, and I get charged if I ring for help.

Now you will say that the irresponsible person should be charged, right? Well how human nature goes, we are not all perfect, we do make mistakes and do end up in seriously bad situations. Charging people for the service isn't going to prevent this, yea it will cover the cost of the recovery, but you think people can afford that? It's not cheap. As it doesn't happen often enough, it should still be free...

We had a bit of snow, some people enjoyed it and ended up in a bad situation, they shouldn't have to pay for their rescue, it's a crazy suggestion. I am been up them mountains lots of times on sledges, great laugh, lots of people there too. I don't see the problem.

Redpunto

At least they were going up to snow board - i think the feckin ejitts who drove up the sally gap and got stuck overnight the other week were worse

johnp

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Jesus Christ, is this how petty people in this country are becoming! We should be just happy that the two people in questioned are safe.

What if they weren't found and died as a result? Everyone would be on here saying its an absolute disgrace that our rescue services weren't able to do anything about it and weren't up to the job. Then you'd have people saying, "hey, why isn't there not more money from taxes being put into these services?".

Two peoples lives were saved and all some people can do is moan about is who paid for it! Only in Ireland.

Maybe we could have some kinda of reality game show. Whoever finds them (mountain rescue, rangers....... whoever) set up a remote broadcast.
They explain the situation, how the rescuees got there, their injuries etc.
Now the public have vote to decide whether to rescue them or not.
Moneys made from the phone/text vote go to paying the cost of the rescue.

Now everyones happy. Rescuers get paid, public decide who's deserving, and the rescuees find out whether they were stoopid or not.

peasant

I think it would be wrong to make them pay for the whole rescue operation ...they couldn't afford it, for starters (and it could have consequences down the line that only rich people have a hope of getting rescued when in difficulty.)

What was it again: 1 Aircorps heli, one costguard/SAR heli, one RAF helie, and another one with Welsh mountain rescue people?
Wicklow mountain rescue, the Welsh mountain rescue, gardai, Ambulances and 50 Rangers ..how many people?

But ... by going up a snow covered, foggy mountain just for the fun of it these guys acted highly irresponsibly and egotistically (what about these hundreds of people searching for them, risking their own health and lives?) and should be made pay for some of the cost...some form of "stupidity penalty" that's scaled to their income.

Sir Gallagher

nipplenuts wrote: »

There has to be responsibility taken, and culpability. The whole country knew it was bad out there, so why should we spend money that should go on Vaccines for 12 year old girls to rescue morons off snowy, fog-bound mountains. They should be required to pay due to their majority contribution to their situation.

Yeah the reason why the girls aint getting the vaccines is because of these two lads... not because our country's being run by a bunch of @rseholes.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

peasant wrote: »

I think it would be wrong to make them pay for the whole rescue operation ...they couldn't afford it, for starters (and it could have consequences down the line that only rich people have a hope of getting rescued when in difficulty.)

What was it again: 1 Aircorps heli, one costguard/SAR heli, one RAF helie, and another one with Welsh mountain rescue people?
Wicklow mountain rescue, the Welsh mountain rescue, gardai, Ambulances and 50 Rangers ..how many people?

But ... by going up a snow covered, foggy mountain just for the fun of it these guys acted highly irresponsibly and egotistically (what about these hundreds of people searching for them, risking their own health and lives?) and should be made pay for some of the cost...some form of "stupidity penalty" that's scaled to their income.

This thread fails sooo badly, no fines would ever be paid, legislation simply wouldn't be passed. Have any of you even thought about what you are saying??? I highly doubt it.

OMG they went up a fecking snowy mountain, big swinging mickey... who gives a damn. Next time you whine about something OP, try make sure it's important, yea?

peasant

Audrey Prehistoric Barefaced wrote: »

OMG they went up a fecking snowy mountain, big swinging mickey... who gives a damn. Next time you whine about something OP, try make sure it's important, yea?

When you have a chimney fire (because you couldn't be arsed to get it swept now and then) and you have to call the fire brigade ...guess what ..they come, put out the fire and then they charge you.

So why shouldn't you be charged if you fecklessley bumble up a mountain in dangerous (potentially lethal) conditions without a second thought and it then takes 100+ people and several helicopters to get you down again before you freeze to death?

Certainly a valid question, is it not?

swingking

You could say the exact same for fishermen who decide to go out on stormy seas. There are situations where the fishermen end up stranded and they have to deploy lifeboats and helicopters.

What do you do-

"Eh, okay I'll send the rescue crew but first can I have your credit card details"

Making people pay for rescue is ridiculous!!

Fulton Crown

So we can't whine about anything unless it's IMPORTANT ?

Went up to my local supermarket and in the row of checkouts saw the sourest line o cows ever...nearly headed for Newry on the spot...but only had a few small purchases to make.

But hey ...can't even have a tiny whine about this ..cause it's not important.

Cant even have a little whinge that if they are so concerned about us shopping in Newry...MAKE US A LITTLE MORE WELCOME IN DUBLIN ! OOps musnt whine ...not important.

Some chappie decides to break the record for sailing a bath tub to Wales an heads out in jeans an tee shirt....gets into difficulty ..has to be rescued...lets be delighted the gimp was saved - perhaps to try again..let's completely ignore the COST of this guys foolishness...John Q Taxpayer will look after that.

Don't agree....gimp should pay..reasonably ..in accordance with his means...just like those sno boarding gimps on Lugnaquilla. !

John Q has had enough ..

javaboy

swingking wrote: »

You could say the exact same for fishermen who decide to go out on stormy seas. There are situations where the fishermen end up stranded and they have to deploy lifeboats and helicopters.

What do you do-

"Eh, okay I'll send the rescue crew but first can I have your credit card details"

Making people pay for rescue is ridiculous!!

The obvious solution there is for fishermen to have insurance for that possibility.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

peasant wrote: »

When you have a chimney fire (because you couldn't be arsed to get it swept now and then) and you have to call the fire brigade ...guess what ..they come, put out the fire and then they charge you.

So why shouldn't you be charged if you fecklessley bumble up a mountain in dangerous (potentially lethal) conditions without a second thought and it then takes 100+ people and several helicopters to get you down again before you freeze to death?

Certainly a valid question, is it not?

If you really had any idea about that area, you would know that people go missing up that way from time to time, out on hillwalks. The fog can sometimes come down in minutes, and since you do be up that way a good bit, would know how thick it gets, it's very difficult to see. There are steep slopes, very very dangerous. If you are going to charge snowboarders just in case, I think it should be accross the board then. It's unconstitutional to charge someone to rescue their life.

Oh, my chimney is cleaned on a regular basis, so no worries there.

javaboy

Audrey Prehistoric Barefaced wrote: »

It's unconstitutional to charge someone to rescue their life.

Where does it mention anything like that in the constitution?

Crash

Ahem

Constitution wrote:

Article 23

1. This Article applies to every Bill passed by Dáil Éireann and sent to Seanad Éireann other than a Money Bill or a Bill the time for the consideration of which by Seanad Éireann shall have been abridged under Article 24 of this Constitution.

1° Whenever a Bill to which this Article applies is within the stated period defined in the next following sub-section either rejected by Seanad Éireann or passed by Seanad Éireann with amendments to which Dáil Éireann does not agree or is neither passed (with or without amendment) nor rejected by Seanad Éireann within the stated period, the Bill shall, if Dáil Éireann so resolves within one hundred and eighty days after the expiration of the stated period be deemed to have been passed by both Houses of the Oireachtas on the day on which the resolution is passed.

2° The stated period is the period of ninety days commencing on the day on which the Bill is first sent by Dáil Éireann to Seanad Éireann or any longer period agreed upon in respect of the Bill by both Houses of the Oireachtas.

2. 1° The preceding section of this Article shall apply to a Bill which is initiated in and passed by Seanad Éireann, amended by Dáil Éireann, and accordingly deemed to have been initiated in Dáil Éireann.

2° For the purpose of this application the stated period shall in relation to such a Bill commence on the day on which the Bill is first sent to Seanad Éireann after having been amended by Dáil Éireann.

3° Thou shalt not rag harder on snowboarders.

peasant

Audrey Prehistoric Barefaced wrote: »

If you really had any idea about that area, you would know that people go missing up that way from time to time, out on hillwalks. The fog can sometimes come down in minutes, and since you do be up that way a good bit, would know how thick it gets, it's very difficult to see. There are steep slopes, very very dangerous. If you are going to charge snowboarders just in case, I think it should be accross the board then. It's unconstitutional to charge someone to rescue their life.

there is a major difference between

a) planning a mountain tour by watching the weather forecast, bringing all the necessary equipment, etc and then get into difficulty by an unexpected sudden change in the weather or a broken ankle

b) going up the mountain in trainers and a t-shirt, thinking it's just going to be a slightly more strenous walk than the usual gander down the lane, for a change

c) hiking up a mountin in potentially lethal conditions because hey ...we can board down again


a) neccessitates a rescue and shouldn't cost anything, b) is borderline and in my mind a charge should apply, c) is just utter idiocy and should in no way be rewarded by a rescue free of charge.

Fratton Fred

swanning around in helicoptors and rescuing damsels in distress is what the ARW do for a living, we pay for them to practice doing it all day every day. today they finally did it for real.

Good to see the bastards finally earning their pay

Poccington

Fratton Fred wrote: »

swanning around in helicoptors and rescuing damsels in distress is what the ARW do for a living, we pay for them to practice doing it all day every day. today they finally did it for real.

Good to see the bastards finally earning their pay

Personally, I'd love to know how they were able to take part in the rescue op with all that black tape covering their eyes :pac:

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

peasant wrote: »

there is a major difference between

a) planning a mountain tour by watching the weather forecast, bringing all the necessary equipment, etc and then get into difficulty by an unexpected sudden change in the weather or a broken ankle

b) going up the mountain in trainers and a t-shirt, thinking it's just going to be a slightly more strenous walk than the usual gander down the lane, for a change

c) hiking up a mountin in potentially lethal conditions because hey ...we can board down again


a) neccessitates a rescue and shouldn't cost anything, b) is borderline and in my mind a charge should apply, c) is just utter idiocy and should in no way be rewarded by a rescue free of charge.

Situation:

Two people are stuck out at sea on a boat, it's their first time, they know nothing about tides, the direction of wind, or the weather, it's seems fine out. They get into trouble, radio for help and the person at the other end asks "have you got your credit card"? They are refused a rescue based on the fact that they are poor. They end up drowning, somehow. Guess what happens? The person who they were talking to, the person who they asked for help from, gets prosecuted and done for manslaughter.

Going to hollyhead on the stena ferry, the captain gets a distress call from a sailor, his boat is taking on water, the boat is about 40 foot, it's quite small. The stena ferry had to stop and assist the vessel. If he left and that man and woman drowned, the captain would be in big trouble.

People shouldn't be charged for rescuing their lives, it's a very very bad and untought of idea. No matter how stupid people are, it happens, and it always will happen.

It's also being discussed over in the military forum, differance is, these guys seem to have some morals.

Linky

Fratton Fred wrote: »

swanning around in helicoptors and rescuing damsels in distress is what the ARW do for a living, we pay for them to practice doing it all day every day. today they finally did it for real.

Good to see the bastards finally earning their pay

They do quite a lot that we will never know about

javaboy

Audrey Prehistoric Barefaced wrote: »

Situation:

Two people are stuck out at sea on a boat, it's their first time, they know nothing about tides, the direction of wind, or the weather, it's seems fine out. They get into trouble, radio for help and the person at the other end asks "have you got your credit card"? They are refused a rescue based on the fact that they are poor. They end up drowning, somehow. Guess what happens? The person who they were talking to, the person who they asked for help from, gets prosecuted and done for manslaughter.

I don't think that's what anyone is suggesting. The idea would be that the rescue services rescue them and subsequently send them a bill. The same way the fire service works.

People shouldn't be charged for rescuing their lives, it's a very very bad and untought of idea. No matter how stupid people are, it happens, and it always will happen.

So you don't believe there should be any consequences for people who recklessly endanger the lives of the lifeboat crews/mountain rescue etc. and cost those services thousands by going out in completely unsuitable conditions?

It's also being discussed over in the military forum, differance is, these guys seem to have some morals.

Nice cheap shot. But I don't see what is so moral about climbing a mountain in treacherous conditions without the right gear and then expecting people to risk their own lives to rescue you free of charge. Where is the morality in that?

tba

Audrey Prehistoric Barefaced wrote: »

It's also being discussed over in the military forum, differance is, these guys seem to have some morals.

No... The difference is, this is after hours and we take the internet much more seriously.

Fulton Crown

I don't think anybody is suggesting that people shouldn't be rescued - in fact let's nail that one - everybody no matter how foolish their escapade SHOULD be rescued.

Have no problem with that.

However, once rescued, the authorities should come to a conclusion whether their actions were reasonable or whether they behaved recklessly - taking age etc into consideration.

Then if found to be acting the wire as it were - should be charged according to ability to pay - or parents ability to pay - relative to the cost of the rescue.

A little bit of naming and shaming in the media would do no harm either.

doilie

Firstly, people in danger - regardless of how they got themselves into that situation, need to be rescued - that includes, people who fall asleep holding cigarettes, boy racers, fishermen who don't wear life jackets and mountaineers.

These lads were not snowboarders, they were fairly experienced climbers who got unlucky.

Hindsight is great. If we're honest, we've all had moments when that would've come in handy....

They were found around 1:30 by Mountain Rescue volunteers - not army rangers as breakingnews suggests - they are always getting the facts wrong.

They were treated by advanced paramedics whilst more Mountain Rescue volunteers carried up stretchers, ropes etc. and after an hour and 15 minutes of carrying them down below the cloud line, they were airlifted off the mountain.

It was a massive multi agency effort and a huge success in saving the lives of two men. What is the cost of a life? Aren't we living in a civilised society? Those two men are extremely grateful, and hopefully they'll do some fundraising for the volunteer teams involved.

What really appalls me is that the teams get feck all money for the professional emergency service they provide. That the volunteers get grief from employers for taking a day off to save someone's life. Instead of moaning, put your hand in your pockets and donate.

www.wicklowmountainrescue.ie
www.dwmrt.ie
www.mountainrescue.ie

juuge

Fulton Crown wrote: »

A little bit of naming and shaming in the media would do no harm either.

I agree, plaster their photos throughout the media and show us what they look like. This might deter future 'tosspots' from risking the lives of others.:D

tony1kenobi

Fulton Crown wrote: »

To say they were up there because "there was snow" is just not good enough,,did they follow the precautions everybody should know about ..letting people know where they were going / bringing suffiecient supplies etc etc.

They aren't dead and they were rescued so probably yes.

However they should both be fired out of a cannon straight into my TRS allowance.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

This thread fails, please let if die. please...

Fulton Crown

doilie wrote: »

Firstly, people in danger - regardless of how they got themselves into that situation, need to be rescued - that includes, people who fall asleep holding cigarettes, boy racers, fishermen who don't wear life jackets and mountaineers.

These lads were not snowboarders, they were fairly experienced climbers who got unlucky.

Hindsight is great. If we're honest, we've all had moments when that would've come in handy....

They were found around 1:30 by Mountain Rescue volunteers - not army rangers as breakingnews suggests - they are always getting the facts wrong.

They were treated by advanced paramedics whilst more Mountain Rescue volunteers carried up stretchers, ropes etc. and after an hour and 15 minutes of carrying them down below the cloud line, they were airlifted off the mountain.

It was a massive multi agency effort and a huge success in saving the lives of two men. What is the cost of a life? Aren't we living in a civilised society? Those two men are extremely grateful, and hopefully they'll do some fundraising for the volunteer teams involved.

What really appalls me is that the teams get feck all money for the professional emergency service they provide. That the volunteers get grief from employers for taking a day off to save someone's life. Instead of moaning, put your hand in your pockets and donate.

www.wicklowmountainrescue.ie
www.dwmrt.ie
www.mountainrescue.ie

Moaning ? Who is Moaning ?? Myself and a few other posters were making a perfectly reasonable point that there should be a consequence for people who recklessly endanger the lives of others.

How is that moaning ?

Why would I donate ? Any skiing or snoboarding I do is on well supervised slopes with proper facilities.

Agreed the mountain rescue people do a great job and respond well to emergencies but surely they should be funded by in the main by donations from the hillwalking / rock climbing fraternity who infest the Wicklow Mountains every bank holiday ?

Just expressing an opinion ...not moaning....

Run_to_da_hills

lucylu wrote: »

some reports say they were snowboarding ....
they should be made pay for the rescue teams and coast guards
:mad::mad::mad:

What if they were on the dole?

loobylou

They were not snowboarders but reasonably experienced climbers who made one or two small mistakes but overall acted responsibly and sensibly.
I'm all for charging idiots who go out ill prepared but this is not the case here. Congratulations to all the people involved in the rescue, they acted in a very professional manner.
For an account of what actually happened, as opposed to what was reported, see here http://www.climbing.ie/smf/index.php?topic=2088.msg9180#msg9180