Why are people not livid about this?

Dannyboy83

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=83548-qqqx=1.asp

Tuesday,February 03, 2009
Ministers’ trip to Dell HQ costs taxpayer €164,000

By Pat Flynn
THE cost of flying Tánaiste Mary Coughlan and Defence Minister Willie O’Dea to Texas to meet with Dell boss Michael Dell last December has been confirmed to be more than €164,000, even though the cost per person on a scheduled service would have been less that €1,000.


Figures released by the Department of Defence in response to a question by Fine Gael TD Jim O’Keeffe, show that Mr O’Dea made eight overseas trips and used the Government jet for three domestic flights at a cost to the taxpayer of over €500,000.

Some of those trips were to destinations in Europe, including Brussels and Paris, which are served by airlines from Ireland.


The longest journey undertaken on a Government jet by Mr O’Dea last year was on December 14, when he accompanied Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment Mary Coughlan to Texas to meet Michael Dell ahead of the an announcement that 1,900 would be lost at the company’s Limerick plant.

The trip was taken in the Government’s Gulfstream IV jet, which travelled from Baldonnel to Austin, Texas, via Knock and Bangor (Maine). The time spent on board the aircraft was 1,250 minutes (20hr 50min), and at €7,890 per hour to operate the aircraft, the trip cost the taxpayer €164,375.

Member of the Dáil Public Accounts Committee, Jim O’Keefe said: “During the course of the Fás enquiries I came across evidence that foreign travel guidelines established by the Department of Finance were not being followed. I asked every minister to confirm what was spent on travel by their officials, persons, offices or bodies under their remits on foreign travel in the period January 1, 2008 and December 31, 2008.”

The total cost of the 11 overseas trips and three domestic flights undertaken by Mr O’Dea in 2008 was €515,141. These included three trips from Baldonnel to Shannon and back, which cost €7,866. The Taoiseach or other ministers accompanied Minster O’Dea on each of these trips.

The Department of Defence confirmed the “average total cost” per hour of the Government jets is €7,890 for the Gulfstream and €2,950 for the Learjet.

€164,000 would have paid social welfare for nearly 1000 people for 1 week and Tánaiste Mary Coughlan and Defence Minister Willie O’Dea could both have flown to Texas in comfort for less than E1000 each

Dannyboy83

I can't understand why people are not up in arms over this.
Most people just shrugged their shoulders.

Have we really become so spineless and so powerless that we cannot do anything about his?

If I did this in my job (private sector), I would be fired, possibly face jail.
Why does a government minister get away with it?

What is the point in all public sector workers taking a 10% Paycut if the government are blowing it before its even collected?

ejmaztec

Is it some kind of international "look at us" snobbery that the **** "running" this country have got a private jet in the first place? Useless dickheads.

MIN2511

Would this bother you if they had been sucessful with Dell?

Riamfada

yeah it would .

old boy

it was public knowlage that dell would not change direction, that journeyshould have being undertaking while dell were planning their factory in poland

zeusnero

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I can't understand why people are not up in arms over this.
Most people just shrugged their shoulders.

I think people are so used to Fianna Fail raping the country that we've become nonchalent towards their abuse. This and the FAS expenses controversy are just two drops in the ocean.

Also, we're a country of moaners not doers - In other countries the public might sit up and take notice, strike and generally make themselves heard until something gets done about it. Not so here (apart from pensioners and only then when it comes down to having less money in the pocket)

It's very sad to see but if we're honest, Ireland is a nation of crooks, moaners and begrudgers. I think the general consensus is "This is the way things are, they're not going to change..."

IMO it would take a crisis of epic proportions to make things change here...

biko

Entourage.

Darragh29

Even the notion of going on a mission like that, to save jobs, in a private jet is crazy! If you are going over looking for a result, you need to play every card, including the smypathy card! I'd have been going over there with holes in the knees of my trousers, turning up in a private jet that Dell Corporation Tax was paying for, was sending the wrong message to begin with...

madmik

MIN2511 wrote: »

Would this bother you if they had been sucessful with Dell?

come on

theyve took the piss completely on this one

theyre traveling like billionaires at the expense of the taxpayer

who in any company needs to spend 164,000euro on a single flight?

they should be fired for that at the very least

there is no way people should be losing their homes while govt fat cats are wasting hundreds of thousands

Dannyboy83

MIN2511 wrote: »

Would this bother you if they had been sucessful with Dell?

Most definitely.

Read the first paragraph.
Alternatives were available at a combined cost for both ministers at less than E2000.

So per minister - where they could have got a flight in comfort for E1000, instead they chose to spend E82,000.

Is this some kind of sick joke?
Did I just dream the whole Charlie Haughey thing?

We are going round in circles.

banshee_bones

Were jaded.

Comon after the e-voting fiasco, the thing about berties shirts and makeup, the bertie bowl, another thing about the ridiculously expensive curtains in some ministers office somewhere....

are you actually SURPRISED at this outlandish waste of tax payers money???

Dannyboy83

zeusnero wrote: »

I think people are so used to Fianna Fail raping the country that we've become nonchalent towards their abuse. This and the FAS expenses controversy are just two drops in the ocean.

Also, we're a country of moaners not doers - In other countries the public might sit up and take notice, strike and generally make themselves heard until something gets done about it. Not so here (apart from pensioners and only then when it comes down to having less money in the pocket)

It's very sad to see but if we're honest, Ireland is a nation of crooks, moaners and begrudgers. I think the general consensus is "This is the way things are, they're not going to change..."

IMO it would take a crisis of epic proportions to make things change here...

But what can we actually do?
(aside from not voting for them next time round, which is a foregone conclusion I'm sure)

Can we actually do something?
Thats what I want to know because I want to do something about it.


I read in the paper last week that 300 people were jailed for not paying loans.
How many of that 300 could have been helped if the Tanaiste and the minister bought a ticket like every other politician in Europe, instead of a private jet?

Dannyboy83

banshee_bones wrote: »

Were jaded.

Comon after the e-voting fiasco, the thing about berties shirts and makeup, the bertie bowl, another thing about the ridiculously expensive curtains in some ministers office somewhere....

are you actually SURPRISED at this outlandish waste of tax payers money???

Those was during the 7 Fat years.
Now we're in the 7 Famine years, I think this is beyond excusable.

Seriously, if you share a joint account with 5 other people and 1 of those people is contributing the least but spending significantly more than other people, would you just lie down and take it?

c0rk3r

"to meet Michael Dell". As a result of this trip how much money have they generated for Irish people? Id say 1000x the cost of the flight

This is similar to the same people who moan about the extortionate amount of money footballers earn per week but fail to see the amount of money these footballers generate for the club.

Dell is a big ****ing deal

madmik

c0rk3r wrote: »

"to meet Michael Dell". As a result of this trip how much money have they generated for Irish people? Id say 1000x the cost of the flight

This is similar to the same people who moan about the extortionate amount of money footballers earn per week but fail to see the amount of money these footballers generate for the club.

Dell is a big ****ing deal

DEll would still be a big deal if they spent 1000 on the flight instead of €164,000

they probably landed in the same airport as well

jdivision

MIN2511 wrote: »

Would this bother you if they had been sucessful with Dell?

The Dell decision had already been made, and a newspaper had carried a report to that effect. They flew out the next day to try and make themselves look good, to be able to say they had tried everything. Well they didn't. They should have gone over in September when the review started, not when it had ended.

Dannyboy83

c0rk3r wrote: »

"to meet Michael Dell". As a result of this trip how much money have they generated for Irish people? Id say 1000x the cost of the flight

This is similar to the same people who moan about the extortionate amount of money footballers earn per week but fail to see the amount of money these footballers generate for the club.

Dell is a big ****ing deal

How do you work that one out?
There is no comparison. At all.

The ministers flew to meet Michael Dell at about E10,000 per hour and got told 'sod off'. Their meeting resulted in nothing but expenditure.

What could not have been done for E2000 that was done for E164,000?



I'm fully aware of how important Dell were to Ireland. That is not at dispute.
The issue at hand is the appalling government waste.
Please don't change the topic.

zeusnero

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

But what can we actually do?
(aside from not voting for them next time round, which is a foregone conclusion I'm sure)

Can we actually do something?
Thats what I want to know because I want to do something about it.

Good question - they say one person can make a difference but that's usually down to hard graft or sheer good luck.

In this situation, what you're doing is helping - Bringing this to people's attention will help to turn people against Fianna Fail. You might think FF getting kicked out of Govt the next time is a foregone conclusion but there are a hell of a lot of idiots out there that vote for the same candidate election in/out just because that's who they/their family votes for.

Priority number one has to be getting FF out of Government as that's one of the very very few ways we can try to eliminate this kind of superfluous spending at a time when it is the government who should be setting the belt tightening trend...

Btw, I don't hate Fianna Fail, though I do hate the way they've run Ireland into the ground. (shower of corrupt a**holes )

Dudess

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I can't understand why people are not up in arms over this.

Plenty of people are. What difference is our rage going to make?

Most people just shrugged their shoulders.

Like who?

Have we really become so spineless and so powerless that we cannot do anything about his?

What do you suggest we do and why aren't you doing it? It's hardly spinelessness when there's nothing that can be done. They were voted in, the horse has bolted. Yep, we are powerless. Blame those who voted FF.

zeusnero wrote: »

Also, we're a country of moaners not doers

Indeed.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

But what can we actually do?
Can we actually do something?
Thats what I want to know because I want to do something about it.

A couple of posts ago you were moaning about people not doing anything, yet now you're acknowledging there isn't anything that can be done.

Dannyboy83

zeusnero, is that the only thing we can do?

Is there no other way to challenge this?

zeusnero

c0rk3r wrote: »

"to meet Michael Dell". As a result of this trip how much money have they generated for Irish people? Id say 1000x the cost of the flight

Absolutely feck all - Do you read up on current events at all?

NEWSFLASH - DELL ARE MOVING TO POLAND!

homerjay2005

why do we even have a government jet in the first place?

f*cking shocking.

aerlingus currently do flights to america for €300 return, and shannon to dublin is about €20, ffs.

Our President was on a flight to Berlin few months ago that i was on,Aer Lingus. she had 3 or 4 lads with her and the german president met her on the runway before we all got off.

if its good enough for a woman whos an excellent embassador of this country, then its good enough for a shower of plebs that are screwing us over left right and center. that Jet should be sold and them shower should should be made to queue like the rest of us.

steof1984

This is a farce once again the TD'S of this country are living the champagne lifestyle on public funds.

People should write a letter to the government demanding an explanation and also to the opposition so that they can highlight this in the next Dail debate

The problem seems to be that people don’t want to make a fuss the people of the politicians constituencies should ask next time they canvass the area WHY THE F**K DID IT COST YOU 80,000 TO FLY TO THE STATES

Dannyboy83

Dudess wrote: »

Plenty of people are. What difference is our rage going to make?
It was the apathy I was trying to highlight, not rage.
People are just accepting this, like its a government right to tell the country tighten the belt while they grab all the food they can.

Like who?
Colleagues, Friends. Only my family were as disgusted as I was.

What do you suggest we do and why aren't you doing it? It's hardly spinelessness when there's nothing that can be done. They were voted in, the horse has bolted. Yep, we are powerless. Blame those who voted FF.
I'm not suggesting anything.
If you read my post carefully, you will see that I am asking "WHAT CAN I DO?"


A couple of posts ago you were moaning about people not doing anything, yet now you're acknowledging there isn't anything that can be done.
First, I'm not moaning.
Second, I didn't say nothing can be done.
I am asking "WHAT CAN BE DONE?"

Do we really have no way to challenge this?
Do we need to change the law?

I would have guessed after all the scandals in recent years, there would have been some legislation to deal with these things.

zeusnero

Dudess wrote: »

A couple of posts ago you were moaning about people not doing anything, yet now you're acknowledging there isn't anything that can be done.

As far as I can see the OP had done nothing except try to find out if there is anything that can be done.

On that topic, find out if there's any organisation that you can join (or maybe even found) to get involved. Change requires passion - If you're that passionate about how FF are ruining the country try to make a difference.

And the next time that elections are on the Horizon - do something. Take a leaf out of the US - passionate supporters get involved, canvas for their political party (in this case it would be anti FF canvassing)

MIN2511

madmik wrote: »

come on

theyve took the piss completely on this one

theyre traveling like billionaires at the expense of the taxpayer

who in any company needs to spend 164,000euro on a single flight?

they should be fired for that at the very least

there is no way people should be losing their homes while govt fat cats are wasting hundreds of thousands

I am not saying the spending is justified, i am asking if they had saved the Dell jobs would you be this livid?

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Most definitely.

Read the first paragraph.
Alternatives were available at a combined cost for both ministers at less than E2000.

So per minister - where they could have got a flight in comfort for E1000, instead they chose to spend E82,000.

Is this some kind of sick joke?
Did I just dream the whole Charlie Haughey thing?

We are going round in circles.

You do know it was an entourage, not just the two of them?

jdivision wrote: »

The Dell decision had already been made, and a newspaper had carried a report to that effect. They flew out the next day to try and make themselves look good, to be able to say they had tried everything. Well they didn't. They should have gone over in September when the review started, not when it had ended.

Yes they should have but they probably thought Dell would remain in Ireland(tax purposes).

Everytime we rant about the way FF has failed us, yet we put them in power every election:rolleyes:

I didn't vote in the last election, i wasn't sure of my right to vote as a foreigner....

FG/Labour i don't know if either would have made a difference

Wagon

Dudess wrote: »

A couple of posts ago you were moaning about people not doing anything, yet now you're acknowledging there isn't anything that can be done.

Actually, he's doing the opposite. He wants to know if something can be done.

Unfortunately, apart from car bombs and some clever assisinations, I don't have any useful ideas but would be well up for getting them out of power or protesting if I had any clue on how to start one properly.

To be fair, i didn't vote last election. I couldn't make up my mind on time and decide who would damage the country the least, and I didn't want to vote for an independant on principle. I was using logic and assumed after all the previous cock ups, frivolous spending and inemptitude they showed at their jobs (not to mention people saying how they were absolute crap and wanted them out) that they wouldn't be voted back into power. And somehow it happened and I couldn't believe it. WHO voted from them?! The elderly? the rich?

marcsignal

Dudess wrote: »

They were voted in, the horse has bolted. Yep, we are powerless. Blame those who voted FF.

I agree Dudess, but you can bet there are still plenty of total and utter gobshites out there who will vote for them again regardless. After the whole Beverly Cooper Flynn debacle there were still lackeys singing her praises. She should have been very publicly discraced, the fckn greedy slimey arrogant bitch :mad::mad:

god help anyone from FF who turns up at my door during the run up to the next election, so help me god I'll run amok with a blunt instrument. What really pisses me off are the Greens, if they had any spine at all they'd walk out and leave Cowan high and dry.

I hope neither party get in again this side of 2050 :mad:

rant over

gleep

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

But what can we actually do?
(aside from not voting for them next time round, which is a foregone conclusion I'm sure)

Can we actually do something?
Thats what I want to know because I want to do something about it.


I read in the paper last week that 300 people were jailed for not paying loans.
How many of that 300 could have been helped if the Tanaiste and the minister bought a ticket like every other politician in Europe, instead of a private jet?

If we want the government to take notice the only way to do this is by public protests and civil disobedience. I would totally support civil servants going on strike, I havent bought into the theory that we're in this mess because of the public sector.
We're her because ff have made a balls of running the country and politicans are not politicians because they want to improve the country.
Look at France, if the government there make a balls of something, people take to the streets and get results

sassa

To be honest I think I'd be more annoyed at Willie O'Dea telling the irish people they have to make cut backs and suffer now for a better future but used the government jet last year for 8 overseas trips and 3 domestic at a cost of €515,141. :mad::mad:
As for the meeting with dell it reminds me of someone that gets dumped by phone and wants that face to face rejection. It's ridiculous surely they knew they weren't going to be changing anyones mind.

20goto10

sassa wrote: »

It's ridiculous surely they knew they weren't going to be changing anyones mind.

There's certain things you can't do over the phone. That Mary Caughlan bird has a fine pair of lips on her

MIN2511

Why do we blame the Government for the recession? We are not the only country in recession, yes our Government has made loads of stupid decisions and we have to pay the price. But every time Brian Cowen cuts public expenses someone starts a thread.

Everyone says we should do something about it, WHAT CAN WE DO?
How do we get Ireland out of this mess?

Sky News just reported that HOF, Hanley's and Icelandic owner Baugur has filed for bankruptcy. Between both companies they probably hire 1000 staff in Dublin.

Dannyboy83

MIN2511 wrote: »

I am not saying the spending is justified, i am asking if they had saved the Dell jobs would you be this livid?

Yes, I think people would be.
We are on the first leg of a massive global economic collapse.
Dell are just a big piece in a huge jigsaw of the Irish economy.
If I read this in a history book about the Soviet Union, I wouldn't be surprised.
In the United States, Blagojevich was kicked out of Chicago for corruption. They seem to have anti-corruption measures in the USA.
We don't seem to have any anti-corruption measures here.
We need to build some.
Urgently.


You do know it was an entourage, not just the two of them?
They could have had a 164 person retinue.
At least then there would be some small justification in the expenditure.

Yes they should have but they probably thought Dell would remain in Ireland(tax purposes).
I disagree, I work in IT and knew back in 2005 that Dell were pulling out however, this is a different topic and I don't want to discuss it.
I want to discuss : METHODS ON HOW TO TACKLE ECONOMIC CORRUPTION

Everytime we rant about the way FF has failed us, yet we put them in power every election:rolleyes:
Possibly. I don't honestly know.
I have no political affiliations or ambitions.
I would let the European Union or Michael Dell run the country if they would do a good job of it.
It would be difficult to find a more corrupt organisation that the one we have right now.

I didn't vote in the last election, i wasn't sure of my right to vote as a foreigner....
I voted for Michael Martin in the past, because he seemed good at his job.
And I think he has made some good changes, smoking ban has helped me to quit smoking etc.
But it said nothing on the political posters or small print I saw about the right to rob the Irish taxpayer.
These people are elected for OUR benefit.

Can you name for me any company where the Leaders would be allowed to act like this?
I can think of one - Enron. They got jail.

FG/Labour i don't know if either would have made a difference
I don't know myself.
I don't like the political alternatives that are there.
I'm not interested in supporting a new political pary.
I am interested in some kind of measure that could be used to tackle the political corruption of ANY party in ANY decade.

For the record however: I do think that a new party would be less wasteful than the current party however. This party have been in power too long and have become too accustomed to it. I don't understand how they justify this.
I realise that a lot of the factors affecting the Irish economy are global and far beyond the control of current political parties.
I do, however, think that it makes sense to discharge the drunken captain if hes shooting guidance flares from our bunker to the enemy bombers!

Degsy

**** dell

**** The government


**** Brian Cowen.

marcsignal

Degsy wrote: »

**** Brian Cowen.

+1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3vEOSkk5AM

MIN2511

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

For the record however: I do think that a new party would be less wasteful than the current party however. This party have been in power too long and have become too accustomed to it. I don't understand how they justify this.
I realise that a lot of the factors affecting the Irish economy are global and far beyond the control of current political parties.
I do, however, think that it makes sense to discharge the drunken captain if hes shooting guidance flares from our bunker to the enemy bombers!

The problem is we are all complaining, but no one wants to put themselves up and offer the country what it needs.

Dannyboy83

MIN2511 wrote: »

The problem is we are all complaining, but no one wants to put themselves up and offer the country what it needs.

MIN - can you please try to understand that I'm not interested in complaining.

I want to know WHAT CAN I DO?

Do you know?
Do you know someone who knows?

For example, in America they have the RICO statutes for tackling organised crime. This is a framework for prosecuting people suspected of organised crime.

Does any similar such tool exist in Ireland for tackling political and economic corruption?

MIN2511

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

MIN - can you please try to understand that I'm not interested in complaining.

I want to know WHAT CAN I DO?

Do you know?
Do you know someone who knows?

For example, in America they have the RICO statutes for tackling organised crime. This is a framework for prosecuting people suspected of organised crime.

Does any similar such tool exist in Ireland for tackling political and economic corruption?

My apologies....

I would also like to know what we can do...

RICO sounds good, i don't know if we can ever implement that in Ireland. Because the theft started from the top of the ladder

Fizman

What would Brian Boitano do, if he was here right now? He'd make a plan and he'd follow through, cos thats what Brian Boitano'd do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_j5AI2InB0

:pac:

mumhaabu

€165k that cost practically nothing You should see Mary Harney and BIFFO's travel, last time these two behemoths left the country they had to charter a C17 Globemaster just to the lift the weight of them, it also had to have 6 inflight refuelings over the Irish sea before touching down in Heaththrow causing the Kent Eathquake. Their Personal travel consumed so much fuel that it was the sole cause of Oil hitting $147/barrel last July.

Apparently the only trouble encountered by Willie and Farmer Mary was sh1te on Mary's wellies were causing an outbreak of F'M'D in Texas and Willie O'Dea was honoured at a meeting of the KKK and NRA.

Dannyboy83

lets start with people in the private sector.
There already exists a framework for these abuses in the private sector.
If we treat the public sector as a huge private company, we should be able to migrate the framework.

How are private citizens in the private sector prosectued?
How were the likes of Enron held accountable?

Does anyone know the law around these matters?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Well I can understand why they cannot sit with the rest of us, they would be murdered there an then.

They shouldn't be wasting our money like that.

Not another fcuking "private sector V public sector" will ye all just fcuk off with that crap.

RedPlanet

marcsignal wrote: »

+1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3vEOSkk5AM

Ah, i'm getting "this video is no longer available".
Didn't get a chance to see it.
Can you let us know what was said?

Naos

Wagon wrote: »

To be fair, i didn't vote last election. I couldn't make up my mind on time and decide who would damage the country the least, and I didn't want to vote for an independant on principle.

Why not?

Wagon wrote: »

I was using logic and assumed after all the previous cock ups, frivolous spending and inemptitude they showed at their jobs (not to mention people saying how they were absolute crap and wanted them out) that they wouldn't be voted back into power.

You were not using logic. If you didn't want FF in then you could have used your logic and voted an opposing party, such as FG. That would be using your logic.

Wagon wrote: »

And somehow it happened and I couldn't believe it. WHO voted from them?! The elderly? the rich?

You did, indirectly, by being too lazy to vote an opposing party.

Dannyboy83

Brinley Fluffy Magnesium wrote: »

Not another fcuking "private sector V public sector" will ye all just fcuk off with that crap.

Please keep this off the thread mate.

I'd like to keep this topic serious and dialed in on the issue I have outlined.
I am serious, I want to do something about this.

MOD REQUEST - Can you please delete any other offensive/non relevant posts?
Or alternatively move it to a more suitable forum if I am in the wrong one?

P.S The public sector employees are more upset than anyone, they took a 10% paycut yesterday don't forget.
If I lost E3,500 of my salary per year because my Boss said the company had no money, and then I saw my Boss driving to work in a new Ferrari, I would put a stone through his back window before quitting.

banshee_bones

steof1984 wrote: »

This is a farce once again the TD'S of this country are living the champagne lifestyle on public funds.

People should write a letter to the government demanding an explanation and also to the opposition so that they can highlight this in the next Dail debate

The problem seems to be that people don’t want to make a fuss the people of the politicians constituencies should ask next time they canvass the area WHY THE F**K DID IT COST YOU 80,000 TO FLY TO THE STATES

+1 to the HILT, could not agree with you more..but whyyyy they dont do it when they are faced with a politician on their doorstep? because they get all "starstruck" and gooey with Mr-smiling-baby-kisser on their doorstep and wouldnt dare challenge him. i say to you people GROW A PAIR.

Well GOD help the day any politician from FF lands on my doorstep......

Hagar

The IRA were shooting the wrong enemy. Is it too late to get them back?

deadhead13

What was Willies response? - I could do with a laugh.

Abdiel

As some have pointed out this should not be a public V private argument.

The whole issue here is that it's another example of the government of this country being completely incompetent and so out of touch with reality that they think nothing of squandering tax payers money on themselves.

In all the talk of paycuts, I have yet to hear out politicians volunteer to half their own salaries - given that they are grossly overpaid and underworked as it is. The current minister's salary is approx 240,000 so for example take out Minister for Health - appointed in 2005. This person has claimed best part of a million euros in salary from the state - for what exactly? Is the health service any better? No, and no matter now many spin doctors they pay to make it look otherwise, everybody knows it has descended to 3rd world levels. Also on the minister for health, it seems to me everytime somebody criticises her she immediately points the finger at the HSE - in which case if everything is down to them, why do we even have a minister for health??? Of course it doesn't help that she herself is qualified as a primary school teacher - which somehow makes her think she should talk to everybody as though they are 4 year olds.

There are obvious parallels to the Haughey era here today. We are being told to tighten out belts by a government who is still squandering tax payers money on a daily basis. How much is the storage of e-voting machines still costing us? How much did the storage of unused garda cars cost us? And probably more sickening that anything, how much tax payers money has been squandered on giving ridiculous pensions to ex TDs? They only have to get elected once and they have a pension for life, they do not have to wait till they are 65, ffs they hardly even show up to the Dail when they do get elected. IT seems somewhere along the line the people of this coutry decided that they would all be happy to pay taxes to be squandered by a useless, overpaid, lazy, incompetent, arrogant and self-preservationist elite most of whom have absolutely no qualification to be doing the jobs they are paid for.

It's time for people to get off their backsides, march to the Dail and let them know we are mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore. 500,000 people turn up outside the Dail and how long do you think this sorry excuse for a govt will last? IF you all sit at home and boards or newpapers is as far as you are willing to go with your protests, then till govt will still be here for a few more years yet, and whats the bet in this sham democracy that they will get voted in again by lifelong FF voters, who are obviously too stupid to be even entitled to vote - I mean if you vote for the same party no matter how badly they perform, how do you expect change??

</end rant>

javaboy

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

MOD REQUEST - Can you please delete any other offensive/non relevant posts?
Or alternatively move it to a more suitable forum if I am in the wrong one?

This is After Hours. You'll get a mix of proper debate, people making jokes and idiots being idiots (the ratio's around 1:10:10). If you want to really discuss something seriously, it's not always the best place.
I'm not going to move the thread or delete it at this stage as too many people have posted but if you want to try posting it in Politics or some other more appropriate forum, go ahead. Just check that there isn't already a thread on it there and that it doesn't contravene the charter of whatever forum you do post it in.