new pension levy

daithip

Lads, check out this link. Dept of Finance ready reckoner and explanation as to what you can expect to lose

http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=5654

ateam

So will teachers strike?

TheDriver

why? in some ways, we should be paying for our pensions, its more the manner we have had this introduced to us along with lots more levies and plenty areas not even touched, e.g. cuts on Govt, junior ministers etc. At end of it all, we are being asked to pay properly for our pensions, not have our pay cut.

DanSolo

I can probably guess the answer to this thanks to the Fixed Term Worker legislation, but I guess the Banker's Levy (let's call it what it is) covers contract workers too? All that work getting us onto University pension schemes seems a bit wasted now...

positivenote

pay properly for our pensions??? what have i been doing for the last few years paying over 200euro a month towards a pension, and this is befor this 7.5% levy is added on top of this.

ytareh

"Pay properly" ???!!!I repeat the question again ,didnt I commit to a binding financial contract when I signed up for my pension?How the heck can they just decide to change the monthly contributions ?
Pay properly ?Ha!So who 'paid properly' for their house if they could afford one ?Those who bought 3 years ago at the peak of the market or those who bought 6 months ago at perhaps 50% less ?Same with cars ...The pension and job security were the Public Services' consolation for being 'sensible' and 'cautious' and chosing a career that might not be as lucrative but was 'steady'.Now the same 'high stakes rollers' who got us in this state want us to take the pain .
The obviously 'fairer' solution (although Im not saying its the magic bullet -Im no economist ) is an income tax increase for everybody.We alone ,are meant to making up maybe 65-75% of the shortfall of 2bn this year ...

J.R.

cjmcork wrote: »

hi - not sure if anyone answered this previous question, but is it taken out before or after tax?? I presume it reduces your tax liability???

http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/PressReleases/2009/bl066calculator.xls

Go to this site & download the excel worksheet - enter yout annual salary and it will tell you how much this levy is going to cost you for the year - the figure generated is the amount you will lose in take home pay.....divided by 12 will let you know how much you will be down each month.

farreller24

The link being posted above doesnt seem to work correctly. when i put in a salary higher than my own, it seems that i am paying more on my lower salary than someone on a higher salary.

Can someone tell if this levy will be removed after the year when they have recouped their 1.2 billion they squandered?? I think i could just about cope if i knew there was light at the end of the tunnel.

As it is, after going to college for 4 years to get a degree i would now be better off working in the chemist i worked in through college as i would effectively come out with the same wage packet without a bloody pension and without the expense and hassle of travelling to my government job!!!

ytareh

Anybody who thinks this levy will EVER be removed almost certainly believes in Santa too....

baldieman

Remember the pensioners, they did'nt take it lying down over the medical card. Perhaps we all do need to take a hit on this, but the problem is, if we do take it on the lying down then we'll be seen a a soft target in the future.
So perhaps some kind of industrial action is required, unless the government spread this burden much wider?
After all the 2 billion they want to save is nowhere enough.

hunnymonster

DanSolo wrote: »

I can probably guess the answer to this thanks to the Fixed Term Worker legislation, but I guess the Banker's Levy (let's call it what it is) covers contract workers too? All that work getting us onto University pension schemes seems a bit wasted now...

seems so. It appears those of us on fixed term contracts have the worst of both worlds. No job security and having to pay additional money (via the pension levy) into a pension that isn't really a pension (defined contribution)....

farreller24

The thing that gets me is that there is no choice about whether or not you want to contribute at all, or the amount you contribute to your pension. This is discrimination against public sector workers. If they did this to just the nurses, just the teachers, or just the guards etc you can bet there would be huge industrial action. Why can't they just increases taxes for all. I wouldn't mind taking a paycut if everyone in the private sector was too. As it is myself and my partner are going to be down 400 euro a month. That's no joke when your paying for a mortgage.

I fear it's going to cause huge resentment within the public sector which will only have a negative impact on the efficiency of the public systems in hospitals/schools/government departments etc.

Lets all go on strike. See what happens then. The government needn't worry it's not as if any civil servants do anything other than twiddle their thumbs all day long anyway :rolleyes: so what difference would it make if we all stopped:rolleyes: I also think we should all call for Brian Cowen to take a huge pay cut!!!!

TheDriver

only problem with striking is that no one has any sympathy for public service at moment as IBEC as private sector totally against us where we apparently pay nothing towards our pensions and everyone is permanent etc. Cowen needs to do something personally, cutting Govt expenses, salaries etc etc. This levy is never coming off us, thats for sure, it would be easier to get a pork pie at a jewish wedding that see this levy lifted

corklady

all this talk of industrial action, how the private sector get paid so much more, how badly the public sector are being painted and how "we didnt cause the recession" makes me sick ....

I have a number of family members working in the public sector (HSE) and it seems to be the opinion of everyone in there that they have it so hard and it's all so unfair bla bla bla....
The funny thing is that none of them seem to realise how damn lucky they are. They have permanent jobs that they can NEVER be fired from (yes I realise this is a sweeping statement but it does seem to be a sweeping policy .... I personally know that they employ at least one raging alcoholic electrician, that not turning up for work for 3 days and contacting nobody won't even get you in trouble and I also know of a psyco that was offered a permanent contract after attacking and threatening to kill his boss). Can you think of a better place to work???

Oh yes and then there's the fact that they earn a lot more than the private sector. I'm an engineer myself (the proper kind ... the ones with degrees not the ones with "engineer" painted on the side of a van) and I know for a fact that a lot of the highly qualified engineers I know are getting paid less than teachers (many of them being married to teachers, so no, it's not hearsay). That's TEACHERS ... yes you heard me right ... the poor teachers who only do it as a vocation ... not for the money. How clever of them that they've convinced everyone of how badly off they are. And likewise for the nurses. ... remember at the time they were on strike that poor little nurse went on the radio to tell everyone of the injustice of her measly 45k pay after 2 years working? hmmm sad story indeed.

and as for the "we didn't cause the recession" people out there. well do you think the rest of us did? it may not have been the primary cause of the recession but the way public sector pay has been spiralling upwards in this country in recent years hasn't helped any bit. all these notions about how ye're "entitled" to another 10% increase and will go on strike if ye don't get it is the kind of thing that has helped get us into this situation. the unions have gone crazy with power and the government up until now were too afraid to do anything.

and so what do ye want to turn to now? the strike. of course. tried and tested and sure to get results right? the bus eireann workers' prospect of a strike I find hilarious ... they want to lay off drivers to cut costs .... so going out on strike is hardly going to help your situation (unless you're trying to get the redundancy). and as for the rest of ye .... ye should be glad ye aren't being made redundant or getting a 10% pay cut. They are the realities most people in the private sector have been facing or will be facing in the next year or so. So enough of this "we're the only ones paying the price". Ye're not. ultimately ye still have jobs which is more than a lot of people can say right now.

oliviah

Corklady,

Lots of us don't ultimately have jobs. Understand this. Lots of us have lost jobs and many more will in September. I will be on the dole soon.

I never claimed to do this job as a vocation. It's a profession. I also never claimed that it was badly paid. My friend on a make up counter gets paid more. My friend in a call centre gets paid more. I do it because I like it. I have yet to have any of my friends lose money or a job. Do I demand that they get their pay cut? No.

Divide and conquer?? Smokescreens??

Pay attention to what is really going on in the government please.

killbillvol2

corklady wrote: »

all this talk of industrial action, how the private sector get paid so much more, how badly the public sector are being painted and how "we didnt cause the recession" makes me sick ....

I have a number of family members working in the public sector (HSE) and it seems to be the opinion of everyone in there that they have it so hard and it's all so unfair bla bla bla....
The funny thing is that none of them seem to realise how damn lucky they are. They have permanent jobs that they can NEVER be fired from (yes I realise this is a sweeping statement but it does seem to be a sweeping policy .... I personally know that they employ at least one raging alcoholic electrician, that not turning up for work for 3 days and contacting nobody won't even get you in trouble and I also know of a psyco that was offered a permanent contract after attacking and threatening to kill his boss). Can you think of a better place to work???

Oh yes and then there's the fact that they earn a lot more than the private sector. I'm an engineer myself (the proper kind ... the ones with degrees not the ones with "engineer" painted on the side of a van) and I know for a fact that a lot of the highly qualified engineers I know are getting paid less than teachers (many of them being married to teachers, so no, it's not hearsay). That's TEACHERS ... yes you heard me right ... the poor teachers who only do it as a vocation ... not for the money. How clever of them that they've convinced everyone of how badly off they are. And likewise for the nurses. ... remember at the time they were on strike that poor little nurse went on the radio to tell everyone of the injustice of her measly 45k pay after 2 years working? hmmm sad story indeed.

and as for the "we didn't cause the recession" people out there. well do you think the rest of us did? it may not have been the primary cause of the recession but the way public sector pay has been spiralling upwards in this country in recent years hasn't helped any bit. all these notions about how ye're "entitled" to another 10% increase and will go on strike if ye don't get it is the kind of thing that has helped get us into this situation. the unions have gone crazy with power and the government up until now were too afraid to do anything.

and so what do ye want to turn to now? the strike. of course. tried and tested and sure to get results right? the bus eireann workers' prospect of a strike I find hilarious ... they want to lay off drivers to cut costs .... so going out on strike is hardly going to help your situation (unless you're trying to get the redundancy). and as for the rest of ye .... ye should be glad ye aren't being made redundant or getting a 10% pay cut. They are the realities most people in the private sector have been facing or will be facing in the next year or so. So enough of this "we're the only ones paying the price". Ye're not. ultimately ye still have jobs which is more than a lot of people can say right now.

This should be stickied as an example of what the Celtic Tiger created. Bitter little people whose only interest is in what everyone else has. This is the sort of person who drove up property prices because they were never happy and had to have a bigger house than their friends and family.

Imagine the nerve of a teacher to earn more than a "proper" engineer!

implausible

Not everybody in the public service is permanent! The majority of us have to work years in various schools before we get permanent and with the present cutbacks that length of time will get longer and longer.

Corklady, who is asking for a 10% pay increase???

gaeilgegrinds

My problem with this is that it's double that at least they'll need next year, this is but the start.

Hillel

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

Benchmarking was supposed to make the Public Sector comparable to the private sector.

At the moment in the private sector many people have stopped being paid for overtime, almost all have had their pay frozen and many have taken pay cuts.

If you want to be benchmarked to the private sector, it goes down as well as up.

+1

Hillel

oliviah wrote: »

Pay attention to what is really going on in the government please.

That's patronising.

corklady

killbillvol2 wrote: »

This should be stickied as an example of what the Celtic Tiger created. Bitter little people whose only interest is in what everyone else has. This is the sort of person who drove up property prices because they were never happy and had to have a bigger house than their friends and family.

Imagine the nerve of a teacher to earn more than a "proper" engineer!

Hmmm I would argue that the Celtic Tiger has created more greedy "little people" than "bitter little people". And your presumptuous statement to me seems to ring more of bitterness than anything I said.
It may interest you to know (or maybe it would ruin your lofty notions) that I had nothing whatsoever to do with driving up the property market, i neither own a house nor work in the industry.
I added the comment about the "proper engineer" to indicate that I am not among the so-called engineers working in the building industry, I don't know why you linked it to my comment about teachers. And the nerve of teachers I alluded to had nothing to do with them getting paid more, I was talking about the notion being pervaded over the past few years that they are badly paid. I don't think anyone can deny that.

corklady

deemark wrote: »

Corklady, who is asking for a 10% pay increase???

I DO apologise .... please forgive me ... it was a 30% pay rise ye wanted in 2001 wasn't it?

spurious

If this is going to descend to the level of a third stream second year debate it will be locked.

corklady

I have no idea what a "third stream second year debate" is but here is my effort to make my points in a calmer way .....

1. any talk of industrial action can only really be talk ..... people are losing their jobs left right and centre in the private sector so there is going to be no support for any strikes and the government knows this. Even the unions know this.

2. the myth that the private sector gets paid more is untrue.

3. the myth that teachers and all other public sector workers are poorly paid is untrue

4. the argument that "we didn't cause the recession" is childlike. The fact is that the recession is here and we will all have to pay. For public sector workers that means this pension levy. For private sector workers that means either redundancy or pay cuts. Nobody is happy, so the sooner both sides stop thinking the other side is better off, the sooner we can all just get our heads down and get on with it.

Does anyone else agree?

TheDriver

corklady wrote: »

1. any talk of industrial action can only really be talk ..... people are losing their jobs left right and centre in the private sector so there is going to be no support for any strikes and the government knows this. Even the unions know this.

2. the myth that the private sector gets paid more is untrue.

3. the myth that teachers and all other public sector workers are poorly paid is untrue

Indeed, some public servants are paid well but some are paid for exactly what they do, some are on minimum wage etc.
I know no one in private sector who has taken a pay cut and indeed some friends were stating that they will still be getting their bonuses this year, fair play to them but how come we never hear about that? Think the govt has stripped enough off us at this stage and start looking elsewhere, how about their own salaries/expenses etc

TheDriver

corklady wrote: »

I DO apologise .... please forgive me ... it was a 30% pay rise ye wanted in 2001 wasn't it?

hahahaha, seems a weekly occurance at moment that someone who clearly hates teachers and big chip on their shoulders comes into this forum slinging mud instead of an honest debate. After hours has lots of teacher haters if you would prefer a more unifed approach?
So whos coming next week?

corklady

TheDriver wrote: »

hahahaha, seems a weekly occurance at moment that someone who clearly hates teachers and big chip on their shoulders comes into this forum slinging mud instead of an honest debate. After hours has lots of teacher haters if you would prefer a more unifed approach?
So whos coming next week?

The context of my original statement wasn't about teachers, it was about all unions in the public sector. It was somebody else who asked "who's looking for a 10% raise?"

I don't hate teachers, am seriously considering becoming one myself actually so I think you're maybe reading my statements a bit too defensively.

corklady

TheDriver wrote: »

Indeed, some public servants are paid well but some are paid for exactly what they do, some are on minimum wage etc.
I know no one in private sector who has taken a pay cut and indeed some friends were stating that they will still be getting their bonuses this year, fair play to them but how come we never hear about that? Think the govt has stripped enough off us at this stage and start looking elsewhere, how about their own salaries/expenses etc

You may not know anyone personally who has taken a pay cut or been laid off and that's just your circumstances. I'm seeing the other end of the scale where I know a lot of people who have been laid off and even more people who have taken a pay cut and know nobody who has been given a pay rise or a bonus. Personally I've taken a pay freeze, with a cut on the horizon and got no bonus.
I'm sure you've seen all the redundancies on the news.
It seems to me that you're suggesting that all is rosy in the private sector. The reality for me and for my co-workers and friends in other companies is that we're all terrified for our jobs.

K4t

I'm thinking of a career in teaching and I think the biggest gripe of teachers and other public servants is not the levies themselves but the double standards.

The ESB (average wage of around €70,000) and An Post are not receiving these levies because they are semi state commercial bodies! This the same ESB that received a pay 'increase' only a month or two ago.

It's the €20,000-€60,000 who are being hit the hardest, much harder than those eraning over €100,000.

Oh and Phase 2 of the Benchmarking report which only awarded increases to Po's , Sec Generals and politicians is to be paid so they're all getting a 1.1% pay increase. Double Standards.

News on the Banks: They've just paid out over €500,000 on corporate boxes at Landsdowne Road. As if nothing happened.

Teachers: Get ready for pain, and more pension levies or pay cuts in the next two or three years.

implausible

corklady wrote: »

I DO apologise .... please forgive me ... it was a 30% pay rise ye wanted in 2001 wasn't it?

In 2001? That was...em...8 years ago, when the public sector was lagging hugely behind the private sector in terms of pay. We didn't get it then and we're hardly looking for it now!