new pension levy

baldieman

Hi,
Are teachers included in this new pension levy?

Mr. Incognito

Are teachers in the public sector- yes.

martinbrendan@e

Are the pension levy contributions tax deductible as are current contributions?

baldieman

Teachers already pay 3k - 4k p/a for their pension through superannuation, are teachers included in this new levy and do civil servants currently pay into a scheme ?

Time Magazine

Moved from Economics.

ytareh

Apart from ,"Theyre the government they can do what they like !" can anyone explain to me how they can legally break what I would consider a financial/legal contract I have entered into with them for a pension of half my retirement salary after 40 years etc and just claim I have to pay them twice as much now ?If the country's finances were booming would they have REDUCED my pension monthly cost!?Crazy.
Seriously, did it say in the small print somewhere that they could charge us whatever they want?Ive heard of DEFINED contributions and DEFINED benefits but never 'we'll make it up as we go along' contributions ...

baldieman

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Are teachers in the public sector- yes.

Teachers are already paying 3k - 4k p/a through superannuation, do civil servants currently contribute to a pension plan?

superlamb

can anyone tell me are an post staff included?

Toto Wolfcastle

Threads merged.

Oral Slang

Everyone in the public sectors included..

Freaking out here, huge mortgage, already lost 1% and now going to lose loads more money on this levy.

dml

I work at tertiary level and have serious concerns about the pension levy issue. I do agree that in the current economic climate, we all have to 'take some pain', but I feel that targeting the pension levy is underhanded and dictatorial. There has also been some sensational spin-doctoring going in trying to turn the general public against public service workers, which I think has largely been achieved by the careful underplaying of some important facts and the overemphasis of others. I would really appreciate it if the government could act in an open, honest way by putting all the facts on the table, not just those facts that will make them seem like the 'good' guys by penalising the 'bad guys' (i.e. us - public sector workers). A few issues need to clarified:

(1) Pay increases were made via benchmarking when it became apparent that the public sector worker's salaries were lagging significantly behind those of public sector workers. Unfortunately, as with most government processes, by the time the awards were being realised through benchmarking, the skids had started being put on some areas of private sector pay. But, did you ever hear any of the private sector whingeing about being paid more than the public sector workers? I don't think so...I certainly did not hear any such objections. But, this time period where the public sector worker was the poorly paid one has been conveniently forgotten. When I took up my own job 11 years ago, I had a lucrative private sector option available. I availed of the public sector opportunity at approx. 65% of the salary that I could have earned in the private sector. But, the public sector job/teaching was where my interests lay, so hence made the decision I did. So, for a few years, I was the underpaid one…

(2) The spin-doctoring going on around the pensions issue made it appear that public sector workers pay no pension contributions, which is a complete misrepresentation of the situation. To date, I have been contributing 5% of my gross salary to my pension (as is reflected in my payslip). So, I would appreciate the government acknowledging the fact that I am indeed currently (and have for the past 11 years) been making a contribution, instead of them trying to mislead the general public by ignoring this fact.

(3) The government is not giving me an option as to whether I want to (a) have a smaller pension or (b) contribute the additional amount now being levied. If I were in the private sector, such a choice would most likely have been mine. But, now I am being dictated to and have no choice in the matter. I have an inflated mortgage (thanks to a housing boom) for a 2 bed place and creche fees to pay. The government seems to have ignored the significant economic consequences that this sudden reduction in take-home pay will have for some. (They reduce our pay then lecture us about being ‘unpatriotic’ by going across the border to try to save a few euro so that we can better deal with changed economic circumstances).

(4) I find it highly suspicious that the government is choosing the pension scheme as the target here. And – guess what?! – the pension fund is the one being used to bail out a bank that is important only to large-scale businessmen and – guess who?! – property developers?! So, we – the public sector workers – are being used to bail out the property developers. So, is it not convenient to suddenly have all this extra cash (aka ‘pension levy’) to sink into a flailing and unviable bank called Anglo Irish? To pay solicitors fees when shareholders sue and the government has to defend the bank. How convenient to have more money for all of this?! Because, as long as the government has the money in pension funds, they earn the interest on the money and can use it (seemingly unwisely) to ‘invest’ in certain projects.

(5) The government is paying lip-service only when it comes to promises about taxing those with the mega incomes. But..this is being said to appease the public and I doubt will ever come into play. Then we have to watch while disgraced former heads of government agencies and banks are given golden handshakes along the lines of ‘I know you stuffed up, so here is a few 100 000 euro, please disappear quietly..’.

The government kept on promising ‘hard choices will have to be made’. I have yet to see evidence of this. As far as I can see, from pension levies, income levies, cuts in the early childcare supplement and cuts in overseas Aid…the government has made only ‘soft choices’. The easy way out has been taken once again.

A desperate situation altogether.

Were-rabbit

baldieman wrote: »

Teachers are already paying 3k - 4k p/a through superannuation, do civil servants currently contribute to a pension plan?

Yes that is a true reflection of and Yes they pay superannuation too.. The way the media and IBEC have played this one I think most non public sector workers were unaware that the public sector workers (Civil service, Teachers Nurses, Guards... etc...) contribute with no opt out option. Superannuation is deducted at source whether they work one day, one week, one year or full working life. They only reap full rewards should they complete the full term of service.
Public service workers also contribute with no opt out choice, to a Spouses and Childrens fund regardless of marital status or whether they have or ever will have children which is another 1K or so per year.

Then the 1% levy along with almost everyone else..plus the usual taxes..

More curious is the avoidance of the Government to reveal how many TDs actually took up the optional 10% cut at the last budget. IT WAS OPTIONAL! There is no transparency on this from a government so fond of that phrase. Friend who is an employment Solicitor explained this simply as you can not reduce an agreed employment term with out agreement between parties involved. So party whips cannot enforce only suggest or recommend taking the cut. Of course the other giant Pink Elephant in the room is the release by the government of the 17% pay increase they had deferred before due to public outcry in the smoke screen of the optional 10% salary cut!! Do we deserve a leader who thinks he is worth more than the president of the USA, no one has mentioned this imbalance in a while (his salary is higher!!).

Dont start me on the unvouched expenses....

The pension Levy put forward today is a salary Cut under another name they need legislation to change the law to enable them to carry it out as it is, what else will they change. They have made such a pigs ear in the last 6 months (or should that be 14months) do you trust them?

Mean while all those who have massaged the ego of the burties Brians etc.. have squired their profits from the Celtic Squib out of the country (while paying as little to the exchequer as they possibly can even when they are here) enjoy the life that they have become used to.

As for the scrapping the partnership pay increases, I do not believe one public service sector worker has believed since last November that they were ever going to be enacted. They were gone well before last night..

When in doubt squeeze the usual suspects...And its not those who earn over 75K a year..


Forgot the Bench marking.. that was what recommended our leaders needed a 17% salary increase!! Go figure that it is now the source of all that is wrong in public sector pay according to the same government..

cjmcork

hi - not sure if anyone answered this previous question, but is it taken out before or after tax?? I presume it reduces your tax liability???

Were-rabbit

Well said DML. Could not remember the percentage of gross salary and my understanding is that this proposal is in addition...

Were-rabbit

cjmcork wrote: »

hi - not sure if anyone answered this previous question, but is it taken out before or after tax?? I presume it reduces your tax liability???

My understanding from the Dail response by Brian C today was you will be taxed on the gross of the salary then it will be removed, so a double tax:mad:..

The Muppet

cjmcork wrote: »

hi - not sure if anyone answered this previous question, but is it taken out before or after tax?? I presume it reduces your tax liability???

I believe its to to be taken out after tax, you will still be paying tax on it AFAIK.

cjmcork

can they do that? isn't pension non-taxable?...........I pity those working in Payroll offices all over the country!!!

Sineadg

Does anyone know when this is due to come into effect? Immediately?

cjmcork

from 01 March..........

baldieman

Looks like CJ Haughey's back TIGHTEN OUR BELTS until it hurts.

dml

It will be interesting to see how this one will play out...

It is my understanding that as part of the benchmarking process that facilitated increases in education salaries, we had to undertake certain additional tasks in view of ‘increasing efficiencies’ within the system. This included additional (time-consuming!) admin tasks, availability for day, night and Sat teaching responsibilities, performance reviews, etc. Does this mean that if our salaries are now effectively decreased that we do not have to undertake all these additional tasks anymore….

I have calculated that between the income levy, pension levy (getting sick of the word ‘levy’…), only being able to claim med expenses at the lower rate of tax from this year, an increase in the threshold for the drug payment scheme for monthly medications, reduction in the early childcare supplement, I am effectively 20% down on my disposable income compared to this time last year. And yet, my childcare expenses are at the same level?!

cjmcork

baldieman wrote: »

Looks like CJ Haughey's back TIGHTEN OUR BELTS until it hurts.

except it never affected Charlie did it...............

Toto Wolfcastle

dml please stop using different fonts/colours incorrectly as your posts are extremely difficult to read when you do so. I have edited both of them. Thank you.

dml

Sorry....I had to resort to typing in WORD and pasting them over into here, as I lost a few attempts when the board timed out on me while I was typing my reply, and I was asked for log-in details again - and found that my whole post reply had been lost.
Could you possibly arrange that the login does not time out before a considered reply can be posted here? Then it would be easier to type straight into the reply section without risking losing the whole lot....

dml

I wonder whether the govt has included in its calculations the reduced stamp duty that it will receive when property prices further plummet on the back of this levy? Mortgages won't be as easy to obtain at the levels that we may have been approved at until recently due to reduced spending power = limited purchasing ability for property. This non-opt-out pension levy will have a negative knock-on effect throughout the whole economy.

Toto Wolfcastle

dml wrote: »

Sorry....I had to resort to typing in WORD and pasting them over into here, as I lost a few attempts when the board timed out on me while I was typing my reply, and I was asked for log-in details again - and found that my whole post reply had been lost.
Could you possibly arrange that the login does not time out before a considered reply can be posted here? Then it would be easier to type straight into the reply section without risking losing the whole lot....

It's a known issue that I can do nothing about. Perhaps check the Development forum for solutions?

Righto, back on topic!

martinbrendan@e

I asked the original Q re Tax Relief and so far I have seen and heard two different answers.
The Times stated that Brian Cowen statedthere is no tax relief i.e. straight off gross like the income Levy...

Dermot Ahearn on Prime Time stated that a person paying €3500 pension levy would in actual fact only (yes only) pay €2100 after tax relief.

Cowen states one thing, Ahearn the complete oppisite, it beggars the question, Does this Government have any idea what it is doing ?

AND I THINK WE ALL KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT CUNUDRUM ?

jellybeans

how is this levy going to work is it taken out of our wages so we are paying more into our pensions???? sorry no clue yet

Were-rabbit

martinbrendan@e wrote: »

I asked the original Q re Tax Relief and so far I have seen and heard two different answers.
The Times stated that Brian Cowen statedthere is no tax relief i.e. straight off gross like the income Levy...

Dermot Ahearn on Prime Time stated that a person paying €3500 pension levy would in actual fact only (yes only) pay €2100 after tax relief.

Cowen states one thing, Ahearn the complete oppisite, it beggars the question, Does this Government have any idea what it is doing ?

AND I THINK WE ALL KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT CUNUDRUM ?

I think its fair to assume they will take which ever is the greater amount. Brian C was asked to put the details into the Dail record yesterday so would go with his figures.

This is a Pay cut by the only way they felt they could impose one.

Legislation is required so a planed effect date depends on getting through the two houses.

Very amused by the out cry of the cut in our overseas aid.. we can not run our own country so we should be running others?
As for seeing the rewards on retirement how many of the public sector make it to a full pension Most Teachers etc I know only got on ladder in late 20s, and I have seen more staff leave with serious illness ( and a couple of heart attacks ) than make full service .

DML very good point re the additional admin work, Most of it can be frustrating as the in efficencies and duplication and triplication of certain records are so obvious.

Stabshauptmann

dml wrote: »

It is my understanding that as part of the benchmarking process that facilitated increases in education salaries, we had to undertake certain additional tasks in view of ‘increasing efficiencies’ within the system. This included additional (time-consuming!) admin tasks, availability for day, night and Sat teaching responsibilities, performance reviews, etc. Does this mean that if our salaries are now effectively decreased that we do not have to undertake all these additional tasks anymore….

Benchmarking was supposed to make the Public Sector comparable to the private sector.

At the moment in the private sector many people have stopped being paid for overtime, almost all have had their pay frozen and many have taken pay cuts.

If you want to be benchmarked to the private sector, it goes down as well as up.

TheDriver

The Irish Times said today that paye and prsi are calculated AFTER the new increased contribution is taken off