SNAs left in charge of classes

dolliemix

Fries-With-That wrote: »

Dolliemix, with the greatest of respect I am amazed at this point.

There is no 'respect' towards me and my experience in this post as it unravels so I would just like to respond to what you have said.

A child with special needs should be able to cope on their own at times

You have mis-quoted me here. I had stated previously that all cases are different. I didn't mean every child with special needs should be able to cope on there own. I have taught many children with special needs - Learning disabilities, visually impaired children, mild autism, a child who uses a wheelchair, children in grief, children from broken homes....the list goes on.
In any of the cases I have taught a child with special needs, there has been no SNA with them in my classroom and they have responded very well to that. Perhaps your son/ daughter does require constant special needs care but that is specific to their case.

The whole point of a child having a SNA is because they can't cope on their own.

Not true. Some students may need a SNA for specific subjects depending on many different things. Perhaps the student has weak motor neuron skills - they can perform perfectly well in a music class for example but may need help with art. A child who uses a wheelchair may need a SNA to begin with but after some time would be encouraged to navigate in their own. A visually impaired child - likewise if he/ she feels confident enough. It is so good for them to master skills and experience independence. It is also wonderful for the other students in the school to see this. In our school, all children are aware of other student's special needs. Rubbish/ bags/ hockey sticks are always put away because our students are most aware that the corridors must be clear for our students with physical disabilities. They are respectful but not in a patronising way.



You don't seem to have a grasp of the concept of special needs if the child was capable of mingling with the other children then they just might not need a SNA.

Again not true. A child may need a SNA for some activities, but not necessarily all.


The aim of having a SNA is to help integrate the child into mainstream if the SNA is required to become a classroom assistant, a classroom supervisor or a substitute teacher, something within the system is not working properly.

It happens......things come up. Recently a collegue had to meet a parent who's husband had been diagnosed with cancer so that they could discuss how the student was coping. The mother was unable, due to work commitments and hospital trips with her husband, to meet at any other time. There is no black and white in a situation like this imo. A supervisor who is not a trained teacher - supervised the class at the time. There is a time to be sensitive and accomodating in life. It is important for that parent to know, that whatever happens, our school is 100% supportive of her.
It is is not a time to turn around and say ....' sorry, but due to complaints, the classroom teacher, and the teacher who has daily contact with your vulnerable child, will be unable to meet you and discuss this issue until 3 weeks Tuesday at 4 o' clock. I really hope this does not happen.



You've never had an SNA in your class,so it would appear that you've never had a child with special needs either. Its not about over protecting children( are you aware that some children with special needs are liable to hit other children) its about providing a stable environment for each child regardless of their need, a safe and consistant environment in which to access eductation.

I have had many children with special needs in my class.
Not all children with special needs are capable of violence....and I know thats not what you said, but I just would hate to stereotype the use of the phrase 'special needs'. The students I have taught are gentle and naive as well as cheeky and defiant - like all children.

" It's not the end of the world if children are left with an SNA every now and then."

The arrogance of the above comment is unbelieveable, more so given the fact it is coming from a teacher.
A teacher is paid the salary they receive because they have attended college and been given a degree, when you take on the role of TEACHER it is your job to teach and supervise your class at all times. If for whatever reason you cannot fulfil this role, be it to have a toilet break or attend a meeting it is hardly professional to state that its not the end of the world if the children are left with the SNA every now and then.

There is no arrogance in what I have said. If anything you have been arrogant to mention teachers pay, teachers degrees and to use the word 'you' thereby personalising this post towards me. I also believe it is arrogant to assume that every child with special needs has the same needs as your child. This simply is not true.

And finally I think it is most arrogant of you to believe that the diligent and caring SNAs that are employed in our system are incapable in any way. I didn't intend to argue with anybody when I posted previously. I believe that the way SNAs have been spoken about in this thread is most disrespectful, especially coming from people who may have been lucky enough to work with them. There are SNAs in my school and their work is, at times, way more complex and emotionally charged than your average classroom teacher. It upsets me to hear people disregard their efforts. SNAs are a wonderful asset to any school. Through SNAs, children with special needs, are finally being given chances and opportunities that never would have been available to them 20 years ago.

Sigma Force

I haven't read every post but this is my opinion on SNAs etc.

Unless a child has severe issues there is no reason for an SNA to be doing everything for the child. An SNA is there to help the child with the basic of things I was told that the SNA was not there to help my child with her school work but to help with practical things like helping her mix more etc.
Every single child has different needs so every SNA has a different job to do.
An SNA is not there to mind the whole class or a number of children they are supposed to be there to take care of the children allocated to them and that's it.
Ok if there is something urgent I don't see the big deal if a teacher needs a quick pee it only takes a minute sometimes if you have to go you have to go but at the end of the day teachers hours are such that there are plenty of oppertunitys to visit the loo they have no need to hold it for hours on end.

I was getting confused as to the SNAs role because they seemed to swap SNAs around and I had no idea how many hours my daughter was supposed to get per week etc. I wasn't sure wether they were assistant teachers and SNAs combined into one or strictly SNAs.

What I do know is that in the couple of years she's had an SNA there has been no improvements except for the past few weeks when she got a new one. This year I was going to have a major talk with the school because I felt the SNA wasn't concentrating on her but luckily now I don't because for the first time in 5 years since Jnr infants of not uttering a word (she's now in 3rd) she actually whispered to her SNA and to her teacher all in the one day.
Perhaps it was the fact it was someone new in the school that made it easier I don't know.

I think parents should question it, and should know exactly what's going on as it's their child and their buisness and most parents would not have a problem if a change was made as long as they are notified before hand.

I think the simple answer to OPs post is no they shouldn't be left with the class simply because that's not what they are there to do. Being realistic emergencys happen that's life. On a day to day basis this should not happen regularly.

On a lighter note never mention how great teachers holidays are ..they hate that lol.

IsThatSo?

I have done the SNA training, but do not work at it. I had the opportunity to take a job in the school I did my work experience in, but I turned it down. I was in one day a week on work experience, and 3 weeks in a row I had to teach a class :eek: Now, I had no prior experience in a school environment, talk about being at sea. Ok, the door was left open, but nobody came to check and see if everything was ok. The prinicipal was a teaching principal and I had to supervise that class when she was called to meetings etc.

I really felt taken advantage of and way out of my depth. A large % of the SNAs on the course with me (were working at the job and getting the qualification) were in the same boat and left teaching classes for the day, not even just supervising.

No, SNA's are not qualified to be in charge of children, be it teaching or supervising, full stop.

mamindah

wow,

that is really bad, but not common practise where i'm from. I've been in numerous schools both as a working sna and on work experience, and that included mainstream schools, special classes, autism units, special schools etc.. In every school i was in teachers hated being taken away from their class and when they would have to leave the class, it was always only momentary.

Catari Jaguar

SNAs aren't insured to be alone with the children. So can't supervise in yard or even if teacher steps out to toilet. It's not as if they are incompetent or untrustworthy just uninsured.

If a child is sick, pees their pants or whatever then the SNA goes out to call parents or get ice pack or other adult etc. NOT the teacher.

I worked with 2 SNAs- one has gone on to do H Dip in primary teaching, the other worked in a creche for 10 years and had way more experience with little ones than me! I couldn't give them any extra work to do other than sit with their own child because they aren't allowed teach. I did get loads of song, game and art ideas though. Hated seeing them just sit there though when I knew what an asset they were!

Breaks are roughly every 1:15min - 2 hours. I don't think you get renal failure from that..

sprog085

Hi out there,
Just wondering as I started a SNA job covering maternity leave from May till November will I get paid over the summer? I know from previous jobs if your a substitute you only get paid for days you work and only get paid in summer if you are returning in September which I will be. Or is it time to start looking for a summer job:mad:.
Also is it possible to apply for a job if there was anything more permanent going in that school?

overmantle

I am pretty certain, Sprog, that you will not be paid for the summer. Maternity Leave is a substitute arrangement (not temporary service), so as such, you are only paid for the days you work.

overmantle

Sorry afino. It looks like this thread has been diverted but I just wanted to answer sprog's question.

uriah

afino wrote: »

Just wondering what is the situation with SNAs left in sole charge of classes. I read on the Department website that SNAs should not EVER be left in the class without the teacher present. Is that just an 'ideal world' rule that gets broken in practice?

I ask because there is an SNA in my son's class who is left in charge while his teacher is out of the class. From what I can gather from my son this can happen several times a week and I have heard that this happens in other classes in our school too.

I can totally understand that teachers are under pressure and it could be an easy option to use the SNAs to supervise their classes. But is this allowed? Is it fair to the kids or the SNAs who are put in that position? I'm quite concerned and would appreciate some feedback...

teachers do go to the toilet, meet with/answer the telephone to a troubled parent (if it's an emergency), help to deal with a sick / troubled / injured child, (even clean up sick) in another room /common area, clean up spills, consult with colleague if problem arises... i could go on and on.

Having SNA in the room is a bonus.

uriah

Lil Kitten wrote: »

SNAs aren't insured to be alone with the children. So can't supervise in yard or even if teacher steps out to toilet. It's not as if they are incompetent or untrustworthy just uninsured.

If a child is sick, pees their pants or whatever then the SNA goes out to call parents or get ice pack or other adult etc. NOT the teacher.

I worked with 2 SNAs- one has gone on to do H Dip in primary teaching, the other worked in a creche for 10 years and had way more experience with little ones than me! I couldn't give them any extra work to do other than sit with their own child because they aren't allowed teach. I did get loads of song, game and art ideas though. Hated seeing them just sit there though when I knew what an asset they were!

Breaks are roughly every 1:15min - 2 hours. I don't think you get renal failure from that..

Bless your optimistic heart -
ring the parents: ah yes, they'll be waiting at the other end of the phone to dash to the school! No. Most will be at work and find it difficult to get off, go home for change of clothing, rush to school to change child...teachers are aware of parents'circumstances, so they get on with it as practically as possible.

get..other adult: now who would that be, pray?

Now we all know that teacher will be obliged to leave classroom occasionally. Better another adult in the room than not.