9/11 Opinion Poll - Whodunnit?

,8,1

This is prompted by a Wikipedia page called 9/11 opinion polls. It makes for interesting reading, although there is no data for Ireland:



It's interesting for Israel to appear right across the board in international opinion on 9/11. Seeing as: Israel is never implicated in the mainstream media, by our politicians or even by the majority of the 9/11 truth community. It's kind of like the phantom player in the whole saga - until you go and look at the facts of course, when you begin to think it should not be viewed as "phantom" at all.

I heard that a large percentage of Americans - above 50% - believed that Israel was responsible for the attacks in the immediate aftermath. However I'm sure references to this are well exorcised from mainstream sources.

My own assessment is that Israel was the prime mover in the September 11th attacks. There are various reasonings behind this, and most are summed up in the film, 911 Missing Links.

Also worth a look is the Clean Break document of 1996, written under the direction of arch-Zionist Benjamin Netanyahu. It argued that "The Realm" [the State of Israel] would be best secured by the removal of Saddam Hussein from power. Obviously the 2003 Iraqi invasion was on the of the key consequences of 9/11.

I have replicated the five poll options listed on the Wikipedia page.

meglome

I think a huge fluffy bunny did it. And there's about as much evidence of that as Israel being involved. I assume when you say facts you mean the kind of made up ones that are all over the CT sites?

Sofa_King Good

meglome wrote: »

I think a huge fluffy bunny did it. And there's about as much evidence of that as Israel being involved. I assume when you say facts you mean the kind of made up ones that are all over the CT sites?

Was is the huge fluffy bunny filming it in New York on Sept 11th dancing and celebrating or was it Mossad operatives?

Simi

Muslims wanna blame Israel for 9/11? Shocking :rolleyes:... I'm not voting until a bunch of pissed off muslims is an option.

,8,1

I think a huge fluffy bunny did it. And there's about as much evidence of that as Israel being involved.

I think there's considerably more evidence for Israel doing 9/11.

I assume when you say facts you mean the kind of made up ones that are all over the CT sites?

Israeli firms owning the contracts for airport security and Ground Zero cleanup are hard cold facts. A Zionist Israeli by the name of Larry Silverstein owning the WTC Complex is a also hard cold fact.

You'll find the above quoted on conspiracy theory websites, as you will on newspapers such as the New York Times.

Do you know of any huge fluffy bunnies with these crucial corporate relationships?

This is not a case of saying "Zionists did 9/11, 'cause I said so" as it is with the White House and the MSM in their blaming of "Islamic terrorists" for 9/11. It's a case of justifying it and backing it up with facts. Making a viable case.

But if you've made your mind up - or you are an Israeli apologist - what's the point. No amount of facts will change your mind.

Happy Monday

You cannot be serious!
The state of Israel's existence is dependent upon the US where its power base is New York.
This was an attack carried out by 19/20 Saudis masterminded by Osama bin Laden.
Even your poll suggests a large majority of Palestinians believe Osama did it.

,8,1

I really should have put public voting on the poll. I'm sure Zionists the world over will be distorting it after an alert on their Megaphone software.

Guy:Incognito

,8,1 wrote: »

I think there's considerably more evidence for Israel doing 9/11.



Israeli firms owning the contracts for airport security and Ground Zero cleanup are hard cold facts. A Zionist Israeli by the name of Larry Silverstein owning the WTC Complex is a also hard cold fact..

Jews in being good businessmen shocker!

,8,1

You cannot be serious!
The state of Israel's existence is dependent upon the US where its power base is New York.
This was an attack carried out by 19/20 Saudis masterminded by Osama bin Laden.

The repeated assertions of the White House and the Media Complex do not make irrefutable absolute truth.

But again - if you are a biased party you will not want to know this.

Sofa_King Good

Happy Monday wrote: »

You cannot be serious!
The state of Israel's existence is dependent upon the US where its power base is New York.
This was an attack carried out by 19/20 Saudis masterminded by Osama bin Laden.
Even your poll suggests a large majority of Palestinians believe Osama did it.

I don't believe an attack of such magnitude to such precision could be carried out at without the aid of a secret service.

Happy Monday wrote: »

Even your poll suggests a large majority of Palestinians believe Osama did it.

less than half actually 42%, a minority. Thats a pretty loaded statement anyway.

here is the dancing Israeli's on Israeli TV, "our purpose was to document the event" - speaks for itself me thinks.

drkpower

,8,1 wrote: »

But again - if you are a biased party you will not want to know this.

oh, the irony...

Happy Monday

,8,1 wrote: »

The repeated assertions of the White House and the Media Complex do not make irrefutable absolute truth.

But again - if you are a biased party you will not want to know this.

I'm not biased and I do accept that media influence can distort the truth.

But this attack carried out by Israel.

I mean the Israelies lifted Eichmann from Argentina in 1960, cut nuclear power from Iraq in 1982 and killed Arab fanatics across Europe in the 1970s and not once were able to conceal these actions.

But they could conceal this in conjunction with the US government.

And presumably Obama and Hilary continue this conspiracy today.

,8,1

One thing is for sure. If Muslim Middle Eastern firms owned airport security and did the crime scene cleanup, it would not simply be passed off! It would be burned into the public consciousness as evidence that those "ragheads" did 9/11 and hate our freedom. :mad:

But again - if you are a biased party you will not want to know this.

I'm not biased and I do accept that media influence can distort the truth.

I'm not talking about awareness that the media can distort the truth.

I'm talking about if you have Zionist, avidly pro Israel beliefs.

Sofa_King Good

Stekelly wrote: »

Jews in being good businessmen shocker!

stereotyping.

Guy:Incognito

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

stereotyping.

and? he just ranted about them ownign and running half of New York. I wish someone would stereotype me into a 6 figure salary job.

Happy Monday

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

less than half actually 42%, a minority. Thats a pretty loaded statement anyway.

It's a simple majority not an overall majority my Arab friend.

meglome

,8,1 wrote: »

I think there's considerably more evidence for Israel doing 9/11.

Israeli firms owning the contracts for airport security and Ground Zero cleanup are hard cold facts. A Zionist Israeli by the name of Larry Silverstein owning the WTC Complex is a also hard cold fact.

You'll find the above quoted on conspiracy theory websites, as you will on newspapers such as the New York Times.

Do you know of any huge fluffy bunnies with these crucial corporate relationships?

This is not a case of saying "Zionists did 9/11, 'cause I said so" as it is with the White House and the MSM in their blaming of "Islamic terrorists" for 9/11. It's a case of justifying it and backing it up with facts. Making a viable case.

But if you've made your mind up - or you are an Israeli apologist - what's the point. No amount of facts will change your mind.

Oh sweet jesus.

So if I understand this, when an IRA bomb went off in the UK any Irish company that was working in the immediate area or perhaps was involved in security in the area must be involved? This concept that any Jew would be complicit in mass murder is utterly contemptible. So all Irish people supported the killing of civilians in the UK and assisted in it?

Larry Silverstein is a Jew but nowhere has anyone shown he is a 'zionist'. He also has not gained from 9/11 no matter how many CT sites make up things to the contrary.

I'm no apologist for Israel but what I've found time and time again is CT sites full of misquotes, errors and downright lies. The so called truth movement is less truthful than the US government when you look at the fine detail, what a sad state of affairs is that.

,8,1

and? he just ranted about them ownign and running half of New York. I wish someone would stereotype me into a 6 figure salary job.

I said nothing about "[Jews] owning half of New York". I specifically talked about the Zionist ownership of the WTC Complex (he picked it up in early 2001, prior to that it was owned by the NY Port Authority).

Services such as crime scene clean-up and airport security have nothing to do with property ownership.

Larry Silverstein is a Jew but nowhere has anyone shown he is a 'zionist'.

He contributes to numerous Zionist charities/lobby groups.

He also has not gained from 9/11

If he is a Zionist (and he is), then it can be argued he has gained. Not necessarily individually, but in terms of his political beliefs being advanced. If only from the 2003 invasion of Iraq and removal of Saddam Hussein, which was an advance for the Zionist worldview (as stated in ACB-DOC).

drkpower

Dont encourage them Meglome!!; when they get older, they will realise the error of their ways...

meglome

drkpower wrote: »

oh, the irony...

He doesn't seem to get the irony.

Sofa_King Good

Stekelly wrote: »

and? he just ranted about them ownign and running half of New York. I wish someone would stereotype me into a 6 figure salary job.

"them"? no he didn't, and for what its worth about 40-50% of US billionaires are Jewish, despite being only 2% of the population. Fair play to them, but the result is anti-democratic dispraportionate influence.

Mahatma coat

Lads, no discussion of the Jewish Question please.

We all know We cant say, OK

as for Israel orchestrating it all the theory has merit, it suited their purpose.

also can anyone provide a list of the dead Jews from the WTC please

Sofa_King Good

meglome wrote: »

Oh sweet jesus.

So if I understand this, when an IRA bomb went off in the UK any Irish company that was working in the immediate area or perhaps was involved in security in the area must be involved?

Nobody is suggesting this.

meglome wrote: »

This concept that any Jew would be complicit in mass murder is utterly contemptible.

Again nobody is suggesting this

meglome wrote: »

So all Irish people supported the killing of civilians in the UK and assisted in it?

No

meglome wrote: »

Larry Silverstein is a Jew but nowhere has anyone shown he is a 'zionist'. He also has not gained from 9/11 no matter how many CT sites make up things to the contrary.

He is not an Israeli as suggested by the OP, but he is an obvious zionist. Do you even know what a zionist is?

He did gain personally. ever heard of insurance

meglome wrote: »

I'm no apologist for Israel but what I've found time and time again is CT sites full of misquotes, errors and downright lies. The so called truth movement is less truthful than the US government when you look at the fine detail, what a sad state of affairs is that.

I didn't vote but if I did it would have been don't know as I don't think for me it has been proven conclusively either way, but to suggest that there are no links between the attacks and Israel is ridiculous in my opinion. I'm not saying they did it either. And to infer that exploring these links is anti-semitic is a weak defence in my view.

Happy Monday

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Lads, no discussion of the Jewish Question please.

We all know We cant say, OK

as for Israel orchestrating it all the theory has merit, it suited their purpose.

also can anyone provide a list of the dead Jews from the WTC please

This theory has no merit.
You can believe that there were many dead Jews that day given the amount of Jews in NYC.
The USA is the last country Israel would ever attack.
Perhaps the Arabs bombed Palestine over Christmas to curry favour amoung the international community - now that's something we can believe given the lack of respect Arab nations typically show their poorest classes.

Sofa_King Good

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Lads, no discussion of the Jewish Question please.

We all know We cant say, OK

as for Israel orchestrating it all the theory has merit, it suited their purpose.

also can anyone provide a list of the dead Jews from the WTC please

Sorry, didn't see this before.

Mahatma coat

Sofa the AntiSemitic Defence is unfortunatley a very powerful one, within 10 posts they could have this thread flooded with 'Righminded Civic individuals' opposed in principal to 'casual Racisim and stereotyping' the Same pro Zionist crowd you will find championing the use of White Phosporus incenderies against Palestinian Civillians Terrorists.

the only way to win is to argue around it and avoid gettin drawn into it, just ignore their smallmindedness and argue your point clearly.

religion has no place in serious debate anyway

Ryanzo

There are small amounts of evidence to show that either one of them were behind the attacks, we wont ever know until there is some form of solid incriminating evidence sourced.

Mahatma coat

Happy Monday wrote: »

This theory has no merit.

says you. Others differ in opinion, hence debate

You can believe that there were many dead Jews that day given the amount of Jews in NYC.

then it shouldnt be very hard to dispel that persistent little rumor by providing some names

The USA is the last country Israel would ever attack.

Really, I supopose you believe the USS Liberty incident was an honest mistake

Perhaps the Arabs bombed Palestine over Christmas to curry favour amoung the international community - now that's something we can believe given the lack of respect Arab nations typically show their poorest classes.

which Arabs? dont get all uppity about lobbin around stereotypes and then close your argument with something like this

you strike me as a Zionapologist

Kama

Ehm, if you say 'Mossad' rather than 'JOO' it looks a little bit more like CT, and a little bit less like anti-semitism... :rolleyes:

Nice OP, the comparative chart is interesting data. To me, 911 is like most everything else...we all blame whoever we didn't like to begin with: Jews blame Arabs, Arabs blame Joos, Lefties blame BUsh, and so on...

Meglome, your fluffy bunny theory is intriguing to me, I don't trust rabbits one bit, but srsly, screenshot or it didnt happen, I demand *Evidence*!

Sofa_King Good

Happy Monday wrote: »

This theory has no merit.
You can believe that there were many dead Jews that day given the amount of Jews in NYC.

Many dead arabs too. It is the Arab countries that have suffered since.

Happy Monday wrote: »

The USA is the last country Israel would ever attack.

Please see the attack on the USS Liberty, or the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946 for paralells.

Happy Monday wrote: »

Perhaps the Arabs bombed Palestine over Christmas to curry favour amoung the international community - now that's something we can believe given the lack of respect Arab nations typically show their poorest classes.

Something you can believe in maybe, but I don't share your ...personal stance. However, but you did have IDF dressed as Arabs in Gaza before opening attack.

Mahatma coat

as always a good Point Kama.

Kama

I'm highly sceptical of the 'all the Jews went home' theory. Assuming you had a conspiracy, telling all the members of your ethnic group to clear off is...problematic, and hardly a good strategy for an effective action. Unless you think that Teh Joos has a HiveMind...

Anyone got anything hard to confirm or refute?

(I'm a little depressed that I managed to find a list of Filipino deaths, but am as yet unable to find a comprehensie list of Jewish. Trawling through http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/memorial/lists/by-name atm. Where's Diogenes when you need him?)

2 Cohens, a Keohane, 1 Levi...Abraham Nethaniel Liebowitz...a Shai...Barry Simowitz, well, it'd be a lie to say I'm happy after only getting 6 likely suspects in a 10 mins trawl, but at least 'No Joos Died' is I think refuted. >< More than that is more effort than I want to go to this night...

Methodology: only the names Cohen, Levi, or Israel are near-certainly of Jewish origin, so I'm erring against false positives. Abraham Nethaniel seems pretty likely. Shai is a Hebrew name meaning 'gift', Simowitz is slightly less sure but highly probable. Many will be the Slavic or German names, but I'm unable to confirm any of these. Still, out of 2800-odd people, and a random trawl getting more than zero, can we discount the 'no joos died' theory yet?

Mahatma coat

Oh Me too Kama, but Just like the 'No Plane hit the Pentagon' Theory this one should be easy to refute, yet all you will seem to get is this incredulity that the question was even asked without any form of confirmation or denial, seriously its like they have something to hide

<edit>
Curious, The only Israeli Listed on that site was on Flight 175 not in the WTC


Dunno where Diogenes is tho, he's not banned at the moment
</edit>

Kama

Bah, google is not your friend on these matters...nothing but white supremacist sites going 'OMG JOOS 911', or 'sceptic' sites with precisely zero content that was in any way empirical, or referenced in any way.

Dunno which is worse tbh, both come out looking like pathetic caricatures...anyone gets a definitive list ever, pm me.

road_2_damascus

Happy Monday wrote: »

You cannot be serious!
The state of Israel's existence is dependent upon the US where its power base is New York.
This was an attack carried out by 19/20 Saudis masterminded by Osama bin Laden.
Even your poll suggests a large majority of Palestinians believe Osama did it.

The Palestinians do not have the same access to information they way we do, their internet is restricted. Watch the internet film called Loose Change, then come back to us with your better informed opinion

K-9

It was the IRA, to take pressure of them over the Peace Process and decommissioning.

Create a different enemy for the USA and UK.

Sofa_King Good

Hardly conclusive but the best I could find is 1 Israeli +

"A senior Jewish journalist friend called me before the first anniversary of 9/11 and said to me: 'You have to do something about the Arab concept that the Jews are responsible for 9/11. Can you find out how many Jews were killed there?'"

500 Jews Killed on 9/11

"A week later I called him and said 'about 500,' which is 15 to 17 percent of all the victims killed in the World Trade Center.

And Interestingly -

"The figure would have been even higher had it not been for the fact that many Orthodox Jews went to work an hour later because of the Selichot prayers recited in the days before the Jewish New Year."
http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-13.htm

The bigger question would be how many millionaires/billionaires lost their lives

Sofa_King Good

its a lot easier to find info on muslim casualties, can't imagine why?

http://islam.about.com/blvictims.htm

Quoted in the Jerusalem Post Sept 12th

"The Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem has so far received the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attack." -- Shimon Perez

None Died, thankfully.

K-9

http://stnjs.civicactions.net/politics/story/2008/02/11/i-r-meets-p-l-o

IRA Meeting Palestinians.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1151116.ece

RIRA links with Palestinian militants

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/globe-article.php?yyyy=2006&mm=09&dd=07&nav_category=117

SF meets Hamas

Sofa_King Good

Bush meets Sharon

[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/MADELE%7E2/LOKALA%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]

Sofa_King Good

Seanies32 wrote: »

It was the IRA, to take pressure of them over the Peace Process and decommissioning.

Create a different enemy for the USA and UK.

I thought you were taking the piss

Kama

I found plenty of uncorroborated figures, ranging from zero (the white supremacists), to 250-400 (deadlinked NYT), and so on. The sceptic/debunkers let me down I has to say, long on rhetoric short on facts.

Meh, tbh this is why I steer clear of a lot of this side of the thing...I find stuff like the Put options far more interesting.

Thread on these lines on the Randi forums was fairly unhelpful, they called each other Nazis inside of the first page, and questioned the motive of the guy asking, who wanted to debunk the '4000 joos stay home' meme. Only worthwhile post is

there were 6 Jewish members of FDNY (primary Irish/Italian Catholic), including Steve Belson, driver and aide to Battalion Chief Orio Palmer. Belson can be heard (and spoken to by Chief Palmer) on tapes of radio communications. Abraham (Avram) Zelmanowitz was programmer at Blue Cross...Glenn Winnuk was a lawyer at Holland and Knight...Richard Pearlman was only 18, messanger at law firm

I'd crosscheck the names, but the site won't connect, presumably due to a lizzard plot to stop the Truth!

Sofa_King Good

Seanies32 wrote: »

http://stnjs.civicactions.net/politics/story/2008/02/11/i-r-meets-p-l-o

IRA Meeting Palestinians.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1151116.ece

RIRA links with Palestinian militants

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/globe-article.php?yyyy=2006&mm=09&dd=07&nav_category=117

SF meets Hamas

What is wrong with meeting a democratically elected government to discuss peace?

K-9

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

I thought you were taking the piss

Well, the IRA have always had links to Ghadaffi, Arafat etc.

As Per my last post, look at the more recent links.

The IRA has always had empathy with Palestinians, even to this day.

K-9

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

What is wrong with meeting a democratically elected government to discuss peace?

Nothing whatsoever. One democratically elected Govt. meeting another!

Kernel

It would have to have been done with some involvement from the US Government.

Happy Monday

road_2_damascus wrote: »

The Palestinians do not have the same access to information they way we do, their internet is restricted. Watch the internet film called Loose Change, then come back to us with your better informed opinion

And what information source are you using?
The attacks on people in the occupied terriorities were recently carried out by pro Hamas Arab governments in the region.
They had a lot to gain and blamed the poor Israelis in the process.
I'll expect you and the other Arabs to issue apologies to Israel in due course.

Black Swan

What an amusing thread. Serious competition for the red tops at checkout!

Mahatma coat

Happy Monday wrote: »

And what information source are you using?
The attacks on people in the occupied terriorities were recently carried out by pro Hamas Arab governments in the region.
They had a lot to gain and blamed the poor Israelis in the process.
I'll expect you and the other Arabs to issue apologies to Israel in due course.

...........................................................................

humanji

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

What an amusing thread. Serious competition for the red tops at checkout!

It's not funny, just disturbing.

thecommander

road_2_damascus wrote: »

Watch the internet film called Loose Change, then come back to us with your better informed opinion

Its comical that when the media is mentioned the CTers always tell us not to believe what you're told, yet Loose Change & Zeitgeist are taken as canon to world events.