Angry with dad that he does not accept miscarriage

CathyMoran

Hi,

please feel free to move if necessary, was unsure where to put it. I had a miscarriage at 9.5 weeks just over 2 weeks ago. I was trying to explain it to my dad by saying that it is like loosing a parent. He thinks that because we did not see a living child that it means nothing and that we should not get upset over it at all. He left me when I needed him most and I am very upset. I am cutting contact totally for a while. My brother while initially sympathetic views it as something to get over - how do you get over the lost of a child, the loss of your hopes and dreams?

Does anyone have any advice/similar experiences? How did you cope?

Nevyn

Your Dad comes from an older generation where miscarriage at that length of pregnancy
was not talked about or acknowledged and there wasn't a 'baby' lost.

I doubt he means to hurt your esp while you are grieving but if that is his opinion then
it is unlikely to change.

Lollipops23

cathy i'd agree with Thad. He's froma generation where one family could often have several miscarriages, and seeing how he's never gone through it himself he probably has no idea how and why you''re feeling. perhaps it best to avoid him for a bit, while you're still grieving for your loss. when you feel stronger maybe you can have a chat with him about it?

Otis Driftwood

Hi Cathy.First off Id just like to say how sorry I am to hear about your loss.I really cant imagine how you are feeling at the moment and my heart goes out to you.As to your question I cant really add anything to what the previous 2 posters have said.Generation gaps,even relatively short ones are strange things at the best of times.Again,truly sorry for your loss,take care.

Mr. Incognito

I lost my dad a year ago to cancer and my partner had a miscarraige in the past. They are not comparable emotions.

Yes you are grieving but statements like the above are imo over the top and are likely to be seen objectively as being over dramatic.

Grief effects everyone differently and you cannot expect everyone to share your grief as it is a personal thing. Cutting people off, especially a parent because they do not have the same appreciation of your miscarraige as you is, frankly, childish.

how do you get over the lost of a child, the loss of your hopes and dreams?

All you can do is mourn the appropriate time and try again. It's not about him being from a previous generation, it's about perspective. He didn't lose a grandchild because as a man we have trouble conceptualising a baby until it is born whereas you could FEEL the child and your body's reaction to it. And you doidn't lose your ovaries, there's plenty of hope and dreaming to be done dear.

Instead of cutting everyone off for not seeing where you are coming from why don't you try and see where they are coming from.

shellyboo

What her Dad's personal opinions on it should not matter a jot... his daughter is heartbroken, he should be there to support her, whether she broke a nail or had a bad breakup or, as in this case, went through the tragedy of losing a baby.

Cathy, I think you've done the right thing... if they can't say anything nice, then they shouldn't say anything at all. Keep your distance until you've healed enough and are less upset - because unfortunately, you can't make them understand what you're feeling.

LegacyUser

It is wrong to expect someone to have a given reaction. Your Dad hasn't reacted as you wished, yet he's "wrong" ? That's not fair on him.

A miscarriage is not like losing a parent. It's different.
A miscarriage is the most intimate loss as it's only two people who have been affected. Nobody else has built up a bond with the unborn child, and it's wrong to expect anyone to grieve as if they had. Unfortunately the two people who will grieve for this loss will be you and your husband. Anyone else is not grieving, they are empathising.

OP, your Dad has looked at his daughter going through an ordeal. He loves his daughter, and you want to shut him out? That's not fair.

One doesn't have to "get over" a loss, you do have to "cope". You also have to look at it from others' point of view. It wasn't their loss, don't make it theirs, or don't expect it to be theirs.

If you are meant to be a mother, you will be a mother. Nature has a way of making things as they should. This baby, unfortunately, was not meant to be.

shellyboo

Unregistered wrote: »

OP, your Dad has looked at his daughter going through an ordeal. He loves his daughter, and you want to shut him out? That's not fair.

And told her she had nothing to be upset over... how is that supportive?

Wagon

I agree with Thad as well, your old man comes from an older generation where this was common. The majority of modern society views conception as the beginning of life. He's an aul lad who needs to have the thing in front of him before he acknowledges it's alive. But the thing is he's too old and too stubborn to change ie. set in his ways. I think we all have that problem with our parents and men can't really understand pregnancy anyway, as it can't happen to us.

Take time away from him if you need to. There's no point hating him though, he's just being an old man. Don't bring the subject up around him.

Wibbs

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I lost my dad a year ago to cancer and my partner had a miscarraige in the past. They are not comparable emotions.

I would agree. For you. In the same situation I may be the same. Probably would. Doesn't mean someone else doesn't feel a different emotional response to such an event.

Yes you are grieving but statements like the above are imo over the top and are likely to be seen objectively as being over dramatic.

Exactly she's grieving and grief is hard to measure objectively. It's one of the hallmarks of it.

Grief effects everyone differently and you cannot expect everyone to share your grief as it is a personal thing. Cutting people off, especially a parent because they do not have the same appreciation of your miscarraige as you is, frankly, childish.

I agree with all of that, right up to the childish part. Again she is right in the middle of the grieving process, it is not an objective time. To suggest someone is being childish at that time is as useful as saying to a depressed person, pull yourself together.

All you can do is mourn the appropriate time and try again.

Again what may be "appropriate" for you, may not be for another. This is hardly rocket science. I'm quite sure that there have been times in your life where an outside observer "objectively" thought "what are they whining about?". Didn't make it any less of an emotional issue to you.

It's not about him being from a previous generation, it's about perspective. He didn't lose a grandchild because as a man we have trouble conceptualising a baby until it is born whereas you could FEEL the child and your body's reaction to it.

Yes I agree as a man, my take on this would be different, but I have the wits to understand that a woman may feel different or for that matter another man might. As for the generational thing; my father would have been much older than the OP's and he was deeply upset over losing a child, my sibling, in such a manner. This was a guy who went through WW2 at the sharp end. Not the type to emote, but he understood the pain to his wife and he felt it too.

And you doidn't lose your ovaries, there's plenty of hope and dreaming to be done dear.

Silly statement and frankly about as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit. You have no idea about her fertility status or anything else. If you found out she couldn't have another try at hope and dreaming, how would you think on it then "dear"?

Instead of cutting everyone off for not seeing where you are coming from why don't you try and see where they are coming from.

That irony goes both ways and given you're not in the middle of the grief process, just looking for a bit of advice, rant time or support even more so.

Yes some may react differently to us, but basic humanity and decency should make us see that, understand that and have some cop on.

Wibbs

shellyboo wrote: »

And told her she had nothing to be upset over... how is that supportive?

I would say the same to this as I have to Mr. Incognito, people differ and one cannot expect the same reactions from them. Her father just happens to act a certain way in this situation. Accept that, accept that it's just his way, as fighting it will only make things worse for the OP.

LegacyUser

shellyboo wrote: »

And told her she had nothing to be upset over... how is that supportive?

The original reference was to the long-term illness suffered by the OP.

(Please do not be so ready to jump down someone else's throat. Offer advice to the OP, by all means, but do not criticise others' advice)

Mr. Incognito

What her Dad's personal opinions on it should not matter a jot... his daughter is heartbroken, he should be there to support her, whether she broke a nail or had a bad breakup or, as in this case, went through the tragedy of losing a baby

Ah here now- she's a grown woman not a teenager. You can't wrap your kids in cotton wool forever.

Sh8t happens. You just have to get over it and move on. That's life. By all means grieve, remember and cherish but at some stage you need to suck it up and get on with it. If you sit in a pile feeling sorry for yourself all day long you'll get no-where.

Maybe your father's approach is that if he doesn't make it a huge issue you might be able to move past it. I don't know, it's an Irish thing in a lot of ways to ignore and bury grief and not talk about things but fella's don't really talk about these things and men are not as emotive generally.

Look, I feel for you going through a crap time but blaming your father and cutting him off isn't going to help you nor is it rational. Lean on your partner, and maybe your female friends. We all love our parents but they are human too and the man cannot be an emotional superman every time and you have to cut the guy some slack here.

Wibbs, I'm not getting into a copy and paste war with you dude. I stand over my statements. You have your own opinions on that. That's cool.

r3nu4l

Thaed hit the nail on the head there. My grandmother lost 3 children before having the first of 7 kids, she was understandably devastated but her father and her husband didn't really see the issue. I suppose that not seeing any 'baby' meant there was no baby, to them.

Your Dad knows that you have been through a lot with your illness and I imagine that even if he doesn't think like the older generation, he's probably thinking that you don't need the worry or grief and in his own strange way may be trying to get you to view your miscarriage as nothing major. It's strange but it may also be his coping mechanism. Perhaps he is in denial? He must have been extremely stressed during your illness and perhaps this is his way of coping with another setback. I don't think cutting all contact is the answer but I don't know what the answer is. Sorry it's not really helpful.

CathyMoran

Just a quick reply. The baby was our child - I was trying to explain to my dad how I felt over the loss. I remember a friend going through it and not understanding it either thinking that my situation was worse (I had bad cancer), now I know that this is far worse for me.

This baby was a miracle - due to chemo we never thought that we could have kids and we dont think that we will be able to have another one but are trying.

I do not expect that my dad would feel the same over my grief but I was trying to explain it to him. I also stand over how I feel and my opinions - and as someone pointed out it is different for a man (though I am not so sure judging on my husband).

Burning Eclipse

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I lost my dad a year ago to cancer and my partner had a miscarraige in the past. They are not comparable emotions.

I agree wholeheartedly. My partners mother had 6 miscarriages before she had my partner. They used to be so much more common and I would concur that your father is from this previous generation, hence his lack of understanding.

However, I don't think that it's fair on your dad to compare the loss of an unborn child to the loss of a parent. If I was him, speaking honestly here, I would feel that you were devaluing his life, to meaning as much to you as your unborn child, who you've known about for 9 weeks, compared to a man who has been there for you your entire life.

Just my opinion... Regardless of it, I'm sorry for your loss, nothing makes that any better.

starchild

hey op, very sorry about your loss, a good friend of mine went through the exact same thing where both her mother and father told her to get on with it , that she would not be the first or last to have a miscarriage. She as you are doing cut off contact for a while. A word of warning though this stand off ended up lasting years and did no one any good in long run.

in my opinion it is a generational thing (not for everybody but for a lot of older generation) but i know for her the loss of the child was the single worst thing that ever happened to her.

Anyone reading your post must realise that this is hugely distressing for you and you must allow yourself to grieve , dont try to block it off because of others preconceptions

i very much hope that you find the strength to endure

re mr incognito earlier post, while i think the poster put forward valid points from their point of view i definitely feel the tone of the post was a little harsh especially the comment re ovaries still being intact.

Not everyone can get pregnant at will & imo this sort of comment cant hep the op in any way

Maggie.23

The emotion you feel when you lose someone depends on how much you loved them. Your Dad doesn't understand how much love you had for your baby. You tried to express your loss by comparing it to a relationship you know he will understand, but this has confused him further.
When you feel able, I would advise you to talk to your Dad again, but take a different approach. Explain your feelings again but focus on the relationship at hand. Tell him you don't expect him to understand your feelings but it is important to you that he accepts them.
x

Mr. Incognito

re mr incognito earlier post, while i think the poster put forward valid points from their point of view i definitely feel the tone of the post was a little harsh especially the comment re ovaries still being intact.

And I'll apologise unreservadly for any offense casued or a percieved negative tone. It is a tough time, but it may not be the end of the road for her to have kids and she should bear this in mind.

Dragan

CathyMoran wrote: »

Hi,

please feel free to move if necessary, was unsure where to put it. I had a miscarriage at 9.5 weeks just over 2 weeks ago. I was trying to explain it to my dad by saying that it is like loosing a parent. He thinks that because we did not see a living child that it means nothing and that we should not get upset over it at all. He left me when I needed him most and I am very upset. I am cutting contact totally for a while. My brother while initially sympathetic views it as something to get over - how do you get over the lost of a child, the loss of your hopes and dreams?

Does anyone have any advice/similar experiences? How did you cope?

Cathy, i can't really comment or offer advice on this, it's not a situation i have ever had to deal with. All i can really say is that since i have been on boards you have been so open and honest about what life has thrown at you, it's pretty much awe inspiring to me. I believe that your inner strength is apparent to a lot of people here on boards, not just myself and i can only hope that when life starts throwing some really heavy crap at me that i can deal with it with half the strength and grace that you appear to have.

MysticalSoul

For a good few men, it is hard for them to imagine what it feels like to loose a child. Sometimes, when people make such statements, I think it is an inability to acknowledge their own sadness - whether that be present or past sadness, so is easier to make such proclamations. Do allow yourself time to grieve as you need to do, as that is important for YOU. Grief is difficult, and affects everyone differently.

Dixie Chick

Hi Cathy, I am sorry for your loss, it must be a terrible time for you. I think you just need to take care of yourself now and not focus your energy or hurt emotions on your fathers reaction. Dont make a point of cutting all contact, if he rings just explain to him that you cant really be around him until you feel more stable.

LegacyUser

Cathy
I've had miscarriages and if there's one thing I've learned it's that while people may mean well, they can say and do very stupid and insensitive things. You are extremely raw right now and you need care and attention and love, and when you don't get it, or feel that you don't get it from those that are closest to you, you will lash out and focus a lot of your blame and grief on them.

Your father loves you, and wants you back to "normal" - his happy daughter. The problem is that after a miscarriage, you never really go back to the person you were before. A part of you will always mourn that baby that you lost, and you will always think those "what if" thoughts on significant days like due days and birthdays. Time will heal you, even if a part of you will always be sad for that little one that you lost.

In the meantime, try not to focus your grief on your father. He didn't mean it - he just wants you to be well again. His generation just doesn't have the vocabulary to deal with this kind of loss - in his day it was never spoken about and just covered up.

Your job now is to grieve your loss and try to take comfort in your husband and those who love you. Be gentle with yourself. You will start to feel better - but it will all take time.

Take care
SG

iguana

CathyMoran wrote: »

This baby was a miracle - due to chemo we never thought that we could have kids and we dont think that we will be able to have another one but are trying.

Try not to think like this. You know you can conceive and you conceived straight away which is a really good sign for your fertility. You were also pregnant long enough for your baby to implant, which is also a good sign. I know it's natural to feel defeated at this stage and your hormones will be going crazy too. But try to stay positive, a year from now you could be on here with a PI about how you can't sleep as your baby is keeping you up all night.;)

As for your dad his comments were incredibly insensitive, but I agree that it could a combination of a generational thing and a reaction to the fear he felt for you during your illness. I'd suggest getting someone else to have a chat with him and explaining your feelings to him. And while I wouldn't suggest cutting him off, I do recommend keeping your distance from anyone who is making you feel worse. My grandmother died a few months before I miscarried and as devastated as I was about her death, the miscarriage was much, much harder to deal with.

MrsA

Cathy - firstly I am so sorry for your loss. I know we like to feel we are all equal, but, I don't think that any man can comprehend what it is like to know there is a life growing in you. Also as you say it is the hopes and dreams that died the day your baby died, and that is something that can never be replaced.

If your dad is of the same generation as mine, he will not be able to get his head around the fact that to him you did not look pregnant, and the baby was so tiny that it could not have had that much impact.

Also of course you telling him that you are as upset by the loss of this baby as you would be if he died, might make him feel a bit useless and a bit undervalued (which I am sure you did not mean)

I would contact your dad if I were you, I would explain that losing this baby has knocked you for six, and that while you realise he does not and could not understand you just need him to be there for you.

You will start to feel better about this, and I honestly hope you get another chance at this.

M
xx

metrovelvet

As "wrong" as many people here are saying it is for OP to expect her dad to have same feeling as she has, it is equally wrong for her dad to tell her how she should feel about her miscarriage. We expect empathy from our parents, a reasonable expectation for them to understand where we are coming from, even if they dont share the same vantage point, but infortunately, they are sometimes not able to be empathetic to their children.

The Corinthian

Were I your father I would have been both very hurt and offended by your comparison.

This is not to say that the miscarriage did not affect you in a very real and emotional way. However, even nowadays, many women have miscarriages (especially with their first pregnancy) and reaction to this varies, from sorrow that passes after a few months, through to lifelong devastation to some who almost don't register it emotionally.

You don't get that range of reactions when you lose a parent, unless you hated them or you have severe anti-social personality disorder - losing a parent is always devastating.

And this is what your father reacted to - from his perspective - that you have known him all your life, he raised you, cared for you and in the end his death means no more to you that the death of someone you never actually knew and would not hugely upset many others.

You may still complain that he has failed to empathise with how this effected you - and you would be right - but if you do that, you need to accept that you have done exactly the same with him. So really, I think you need to sit down with him try to explain where you're coming from from the position that neither one of you will ever understand each other's viewpoint perfectly, but that you still love each other nonetheless.

marti101

Cathy ive had 3 miscarriages and im telling you ,you cant expect your father and husband to grieve the same way.Everybody is different but you will get over it.Your father is grieving hes just doing it in his own way maybe he was insencitive but hes hurting to.The best thing to do extend your hand and make peace becaus the last thing you want is to fall out with him.It will be hard but it would be harder to try get back talking to him.And i have to agree with Mr incognito in some ways.You have suffered a loss but other peoples lives still have to go on.jJoin a miscarrige support group and let your healing begin that way,with people who really understand what yopu are going through.

iguana

The Corinthian wrote: »

This is not to say that the miscarriage did not affect you in a very real and emotional way. However, even nowadays, many women have miscarriages (especially with their first pregnancy) and reaction to this varies, from sorrow that passes after a few months, through to lifelong devastation to some who almost don't register it emotionally.

You don't get that range of reactions when you lose a parent, unless you hated them or you have severe anti-social personality disorder - losing a parent is always devastating.

How many women do you know who've had a miscarriage who haven't been devastated by it. Yes many get over it after a couple of months, but that is usually because they are pregnant again. Once you have another baby, especially if you have a baby who wouldn't have been possible if you hadn't miscarried the first, it gets easier to compartmentalise. Obviously you can't "replace" a parent so there is no easy way to get over unlike a miscarriage.

But also for the first few months after a miscarriage your hormones are haywire, which makes things harder to cope with, as you can have unnatural highs and lows. This isn't something you have to deal with, with any other death.

metrovelvet

I wanted to edit my post to add but it wont let me:



Have you lost a parent? Are you in a position to compare a miscarriage with the death of a parent? There are all sorts of losses, you cant measure grief. You bothneed to understand this. You may have inadvertently invalidated his losses in your comment.

Nevyn

Cathy at this stage would you consider getting some miscarriage grief counselling both for yourself and your husband ?

www.miscarriage.ie.

marti101

I lost my mother 9 years ago and my dad last year you cant compare the pain of losing a parent.It is worse to lose a parent somebody who has been there for you wiped your nose and plastered your knees.It is devestating a miscarriage but t is different.After my 1st i was in bits but then had my 2 boys.Then my other miscarriage was awful but my kids kept me going.And the last one i was told id probably never have more kids but at that stage i had my self in the frame of mind that maybe it was the best thing as there was something obviously wrong with the babies.Then i found out i was pregnant and hes now 10 months old so Cathy lots and lots of positive thinking cause we are all rooting for you here.

LegacyUser

for your loss. I had a miscarraige last year and it still effects me daily 6 months later. Your Dad doesnt know how to react, he wants it to be made better for you and thinks by maybe downplaying it all he is doing that. It will hurt him to see you hurt too. Dont remove him from your life because of what he said, instead talk to him and tell him how you feel and tell him that you respect his view even though you dont agree with it and you should expect the same from him.

I cant say it will be the same feeling as losing a parent, as the feeling i had when i was pregnant was more powerful than the feelings i have for my Mum, who i adore and have a fantastic relationship with. The bond between Mum and child is different to that of child and parent.

You need to take time out for yourself, cry if you want to, get angry if you want to, but most importantly be good to yourself and you will get through this and the sadness will diminish.

My thoughts are with you big time!

delly

Cathy, firstly sorry for loss. I hope that time will ease the pain you feel.

Its a tramatic occurrence to happen and I think that there are several ways to look at it. As others have said the 'older' generation have a different view on miscarriages, maybe because back then they were so common. My own mother had 3 and recalls them without any feelings of grief.

In saying that tho' I truly believe that what you feel here and now is the same as losing a parent. The only difference I think that may occur, is that over time the pain might reduce more so than if you actually did loose a parent. I think that no matter how you rationalise it to your father, he will never really understand and likewise until you place yourself in his shoes, you won't be able to see his hurt over your comments.

Its not a right or wrong scenario, its just a case of two viewpoints that are too far apart for some middle ground. I think that time apart would be good, but don't let it develop into a valley that will have long term effects on your relationship. Here and now that probably sounds nuts, but your its still raw and will take time to heal.

The Corinthian

iguana wrote: »

How many women do you know who've had a miscarriage who haven't been devastated by it.

A few actually. Without need of 'replacement'; as you so diplomatically put it.

But also for the first few months after a miscarriage your hormones are haywire, which makes things harder to cope with, as you can have unnatural highs and lows. This isn't something you have to deal with, with any other death.

That's like saying that all women suffer from severe post natal depression or morning sickness. Hormones affect different people, differently.

Please don't get me wrong - I'm not suggesting that Cathy has not suffered real and valid emotions as a result of her miscarriage, only that not everyone does in the same way in the same situation and that her emotions should not invalidate the emotions of others.

@ cathymoran

Would you by any chance be using this thread to Vent and once you've done that you'll feel a bit more resolved about it.
Your Dad is just glad you are alive and well and isnt prone to the hormonal feelings you are about this.

You've some good advice got here in this thread.Ignore what your Dad said and carry on as normal.
Don't blank him out.
If he's anything like most Dads he'll have made more sacrifices for you in your lifetime than you'll ever know so taking one attitude he has and reacting this way to it is deeply unnecessary and unfair.

It's also happening at the worst time [too close] for you to be react rationally to his take on this.

For the record my Granny had 8 kids and 2 miscarriages and her husband died when they were all young and she was pregnant at the time.
She by all accounts peckered up,head in the air and got on with it.
Ironically my Aunt,her eldest daughter also miscarried twins,lost her husband young and brought up 6 kids on her own.

You have to,absolutely have to look at the bigger longer picture...What you are dealing with now is just a flash in the pan in the bigger scheme painfull though it is.
When you are 80 years of age with your own grandchildren,this will seem miniscule.Believe me.

iguana

The Corinthian wrote: »

A few actually. Without need of 'replacement'; as you so diplomatically put it.

And how close are you to them? Nobody but my husband and my parents has a clue how badly my miscarriage has affected me. Any of my friends could put me forward as an example of someone who has allowed a miscarriage to affect them very little. They don't have a clue what I'm actually going through, if anyone asks I tell them I'm fine as I find it easier to act like it's not bothering me. In fact the vast majority of my friends don't even have a clue that I was ever even pregnant as I don't want to have to talk about it. It doesn't mean that I don't cry about it nearly every day, it just means that nobody knows.

The Corinthian wrote: »

That's like saying that all women suffer from severe post natal depression or morning sickness. Hormones affect different people, differently.

It's not the same as either of those things. The body is producing hormones to build a person and then that "person" disappears, but the hormones are left. The body is doing something it isn't supposed to, so the effects are severe.

spurious

Only a woman who has felt the pain of miscarriage can comment on what it feels like. Regardless how well-meaning people are being, the pain a partner feels following miscarriage is not the same as for the woman involved.

A close friend of mine miscarried her first child. She subsequently had a second successful pregnancy, but she grieves still for the hopes that were never fulfilled for that first baby. I don't know any woman who had a miscarriage who was not devastated, regardless of any subsequent pregnancies.

CathyMoran, I'm sorry your Dad is having trouble coping with the miscarriage. Maybe a break from him is a good thing at the moment, but please don't let it permanently affect your relationship with him.

barbiegirl

Hi Cathy,
First my condolences I am a lurker on TTC forum so I am familar with your story. However I was just reading the "Fighting with my dad" thread and you made comment that your dad had changed since your mum became ill.
So your dad has had to deal with his beloved daughter having cancer, his wife and life partner being ill and now the death of a grandchild.
You are understandably upset and hormonal. He is upset and now you're cutting off contact with him.
Please take some time to stand back and re-assess. He was insensitive, but it is the belief of the older generation, in fact I heard my dad say the same thing, though thankfully not to my sis in law who has miscarried. I got angry on her behalf, but untimately I know he is a good man and a complete softy who loves his children and grandchildren dearly so falling out is not an option.
Right now ultimately you need him and he needs you.

The Corinthian

iguana wrote: »

And how close are you to them?

Very, very close to one.

It's not the same as either of those things. The body is producing hormones to build a person and then that "person" disappears, but the hormones are left. The body is doing something it isn't supposed to, so the effects are severe.

Again, even there it depends upon the person.

It might be better if we agree to disagree as a heated discussion on this is probably inappropriate here.

iguana

The Corinthian wrote: »

Very, very close to one.

So close that you can honestly say that there is no way on earth they are putting a brave face on it with you? I'm not trying to undermine your relationship with this person but my brothers have no clue about this with me, nor do my best friends. My dad only knows part of it because he caught me once on a bad day and my mum and husband know most of what I'm feeling but not all of it. Most of the time I pretend not to feel what I'm feeling because if I act like I'm ok then it's easier to feel ok when I'm with those people.

Unless you yourself are a woman who has lost a baby that you very much wanted. And had very little sadness about it than you can't say that anyone feels like that. And tbh, if there are women like that then they are have the same personality disorder as the theoretical person who didn't grieve their parents which you described. Losing a baby which you wanted and loved is always devastating too.

The Corinthian

iguana wrote: »

So close that you can honestly say that there is no way on earth they are putting a brave face on it with you?

Yes, without a shred of doubt.

I'm not trying to undermine your relationship with this person

Well, actually you are.

Unless you yourself are a woman who has lost a baby that you very much wanted.

The old "screw you, you're just a man" response... look, a number of women have already stated in this thread that while they were affected by miscarriages, it was not 'devastating' to them.

Different women are affected differently by the experience. Some of the reason may be down to when it happens during pregnancy or physiological differences or existing psychological make-up or even whether they wanted to be pregnant in the first place or not. Whatever the reason, you cannot claim that all women are in all cases affected in exactly the same way or degree.

My advice to Cathy remains the same; one of agree to disagree with her father. Certainly her father could be more understanding, but she too has completely ignored his viewpoint and feelings. Ultimately we all experience tragedy in our lives at some point, but it is how we deal with this that should define who we are rather than the tragedy itself.

Lollipops23

metrovelvet wrote: »

Have you lost a parent? Are you in a position to compare a miscarriage with the death of a parent? There are all sorts of losses, you cant measure grief. You bothneed to understand this. You may have inadvertently invalidated his losses in your comment.

has her father gone through the physical and emotional pain of miscarrying?nope. he hurt her, he invalidated her loss.even of it's not significant to him,it is to her and that should be all that matters. when a 14 year old girl has her heart broken, it may not be remotely important to her dad but he'll still comfort her while she cries her heart out. not on the same par as losing a child,but best i could think of!

Beruthiel

iguana, please agree to disagree with TC and lets get back to helping Cathy out.

This applies to the rest of you too.

This thread is about Cathy not the rest of you.

Wibbs

OK some good advice from all, but I think this is hardly the place to be escalating tit for tat discussion. So please stay on topic and away from repeated one to one stuff. Thanks.

The Corinthian

Lollipops23 wrote: »

when a 14 year old girl has her heart broken, it may not be remotely important to her dad but he'll still comfort her while she cries her heart out. not on the same par as losing a child,but best i could think of!

Of course, but if the 14 year old girl argues that his death would be on the same level as her heartbreak that I'd imagine the father might be upset (again, not on the same level as losing a child, but I'm just working with your example).

Seriously, no one is suggesting that this has not affected Cathy in a very deep way, but this story really does appear to be a case of two people invalidating each other's feelings and the whole thing spinning out of control.

Edit: Perhaps speaking to him and saying that the reason that you used that comparison was to underline how much it had affected you and you didn't mean to hurt his feelings might be a way to reopen dialogue and understanding.

CDfm

Your Dad is from a different generation when misscarriages werent talked about or were more common.Death illness and the TB plague were more common.The cycle off life and a misscarriage at 9.5 weeks was probably meant to be because of viability issues.

I know a few guys who would feel like you do and I was upset when it happened to me and my ex - I was upset.

Try not to think badly of your Dad as in his way he might be trying to help you think differently in a get over it kind of way.

That should not stop you if you can trying for another baby if you can & I wish you luck:)

CathyMoran

Sorry, have been away all day, actually got my hair done in the afternoon...am trying to spoil myself for the next while.

My dad and I have not been the same since my mum got ill several years ago - it turns out that she really was half of him and he is lost without her. Over the past few years his personality has changed and at New Years we had our first real row ever. I sought comfort from him over my loss being aware that he was hurting too (I know that he wanted this child), having said that I explained how I felt about our loss - I have not technically lost a parent but have gone through the loss of a parent so I know how upsetting it is to loose a parent (sorry if that is cryptic). He also said that my husband was weak as he is grieving over our child. I just cant speak to him at the moment no matter how hard I try, it brings up memories of me needing him and him as I felt shutting the door in my face. I am aware that he has been through hell in the past few years but I am doing well holding myself together and speaking and seeing someone who hurts me is too much for now. Of course I still love him. I also know that he is upset over loosing his grandchild.

We will probably never be able to conceive again though we will try - this was our "miracle baby" that so many people talk about.

I did do a pregnancy test - the hormones are still there but are at a lot less.

I did not mean to offend anyone who has lost a parent but this is how I feel. We have been onto the miscarriage association from near the begining - they are brilliant. It is just hard when you father and brother dont understand that you are grieving.

Semele

With total sympathy for you, I think that you're being too hard on your dad. As another poster said, the only people who have been "bereaved" are you and your husband since the baby was more of a reality to you than to anyone else. This doesn't mean that no-one else feels bad. I'm sure your dad is upset- but FOR you, not WITH you, since he is not in your position and so cannot know how it feels.

CathyMoran wrote: »

Just a quick reply. The baby was our child - I was trying to explain to my dad how I felt over the loss. I remember a friend going through it and not understanding it either thinking that my situation was worse (I had bad cancer), now I know that this is far worse for me.

You have admitted yourself that you could not understand how your friend felt when it was her in the situation. Does this mean you had no sympathy for her, or that you would not have done anything to make things different for her if you had the power to? No. I'm sure you cared deeply FOR HER, as anyone would for someone close to them, but you did not feel the pain yourself. This is now the situation your father is in, except undoubtedly magnified since you are his daughter. Since there is no way that he can feel what you do, accusing him of feeling nothing is surely hugely hurtful and unfair to him.

In the situation with your friend, you thought that what you were going through was worse than what she was. In comparing your miscarriage to the death of a parent (the rights and wrongs of which already having been discussed here) you are again to a certain extent claiming that what you are feeling is worse than anything anyone else has been through. Surely you should have realised by now the subjectivity of grief? You cannot know how somthing feels until you have been through it yourself, nor does anyone have the right to compare someone else's experience to their own. If your father has suffered loss in his own life, it may be the case that he resents your comparing it to something he feels is "lesser". There is no right or wrong here- you would both be doing the same disservice to the other.

In the situation with your friend you were at a distance, therefore able to objectively think "there are worse things that could happen" (eg. your cancer). Your dad in this case has seen you battle through potentially life-threatening ilnesses- from his position there are undoubtedly worse things that could happen. It's not that he doesn't care, it's that his concern is for YOU, and you are alive and well- when he knows all to well that this may not have been the case.

I think what others have siad about the generation gap is likely true- not just in attitudes to miscarriage itself but also in the way people were expected to deal with loss.

We are so accustomed to the modern attitude that one should talk about things to aid healing that it is easy to forget that older generations were brought up to believe that "least said is soonest mended". Your dad might well honestly believe that discouraging you from brooding over the subject is the best way to help you get over it.

You, and you husband, should go to counselling to help you come to terms with this, if you feel it is what you need. Pushing away your father for something that is not his fault will not help anything.

As a point of interest, the wording of your thread title is "Angry with dad that he does not accept miscarriage". It would seem to me that he has accepted it. It is you however for whom the pain is still raw. We have the capacity to do irrational and hurtful things when we are in pain, or angry or disappointed. Make sure that you are not projecting all of these feelings onto your father in the absence of anyone/anything else to blame for what has happened.

CathyMoran

It was actually a male friend who lost the baby, he has been very good to me about it. I was aware that he was hurting and did everything that I could to help even though I was very ill at the time.

My dad just wants to ignore that this has ever happened to me, that it was not a real baby because we did not see it...he just wants to carry on and ignore that it happened. It is only 2 weeks and a day!

We have looked into councelling however I am of the viewpoint that we are going through a normal grieving process and that this takes time...my husband and I do talk to one another about how we are feeling every day. I get by day by day but certain things still make me upset (as do certain days) and I have lost my spark for now, but that is normal.

This was not the first trouble that my dad and I have had, we were incredibly close when I was growing up but he changed when mum got ill and when I got married (though I married a sensitive man like him). My life has changed from what has happened as much as him and we have drifted apart. I do know that he is upset though but he is dealing with his grief through art.

I do still have my sense of humour - when going back to my husband I heard the Ace of Base song "All that she wants is another baby...", I was half crying and laughing in the street but I think that it is apt for us. The pregnancy was great for me as it made me look after my health better and eat more - I also loved being pregnant but I find the night very hard as we used to both hug our baby at night.

delly

CathyMoran wrote: »

I did not mean to offend anyone who has lost a parent but this is how I feel.

No need to apologise on this front, I lost my dad when I was 12 and wouldn't be offended in any way by how you feel. Its that long ago now that I can honestly say it means very little to me now.