[Article] Eircom to cut off Music File Sharers ..

rojerdandry

(Shrill voice) 'Won't someone please think of the children!!!',
and their future copyright material...

My name is URL

watty wrote: »

Like MORE comical than some of the hysterical and "tinfoil" rants here?

eircom, RIAA, IRMA: Please note I have not received the item discussed in the post today. maybe AnPost intercepted it in "a deep packet inspection"?

EDIT: The future?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/02/emi_brand_sponsorship_please/

Tbh Watty, you seem to be either oblivious to or simply don't care about just how big of an impact this might have to customer privacy in the future. If a corporation is able to reach an agreement like this without the need for mediation through the courts, then who's to say that other corporations won't follow suit?

Look at the new legislation brought in the the UK which illegalizes kinky porn, http://www.politics.co.uk/news/opinion-former-index/legal-and-constitutional/extreme-porn-becomes-illegal-$1263253.htm

If Ireland were to introduce such a change in legislation, which is likely. Would it be ok for another "group" to monitor and report IPs should they be found browsing sites like that?

I wouldn't say that the concerns raised ITT are "hysterical". You're free to decide what you want, but you shouldn't belittle the fears that others have over this.

PaddyTheNth

Upward Spiral wrote: »

I wouldn't say that the concerns raised ITT are "hysterical". You're free to decide what you want, but you shouldn't belittle the fears that others have over this.

The problem is that the valid issues are being drowned in the deluge of incorrect information or entirely mis-presented...eg "Hey eircom stop snooping on my filez" instead of "Eircom shouldn't be the ones to enforce the law" and so on...

watty

Upward Spiral wrote: »

Tbh Watty, you seem to be either oblivious to or simply don't care about just how big of an impact this might have to customer privacy in the future. If a corporation is able to reach an agreement like this without the need for mediation through the courts, then who's to say that other corporations won't follow suit?

< -- snip -- >

I wouldn't say that the concerns raised ITT are "hysterical". You're free to decide what you want, but you shouldn't belittle the fears that others have over this.

eircom isn't affecting your privacy at all. They won't be telling the Rights Holder anything.

I do have concerns: Open to all kinds of abuse

The Rights holders may or may not be doing something illegal in the way they gather IPs OUTSIDE eircom's network, but eircom seem to be legally quite entitled to cut of customers for many reasons including suspected copyright infringement. They have never needed to prove it in court. This is nothing to to with your freedom of expression or privacy in regard to your contract with eircom.

Read the facts. Don't misrepresent them.

Kinky or extreme Porn is nothing to do with this agreement and the mind boggles as how they would define it or where you draw the line. The UK has practically descended into being a Police State (Stop & Search, CCTV and many other things). We don't automatically do what they do anymore. We joined Euro and they still have Stg. They have NuLabour. The only kinky porn involved in this agreement would be if it was copyright infringed upload/download. The Rights Holders are only concerned with Intellectual Property Violations. Not other kinds of Violations.

yoshytoshy

heres a question on this scenario.

If eircom was to change hands or re-shuffle into a different company. How would this agreement stand ?

The digital side of things needs an almighty kick up you know where. Online should be flourished with streaming music and video ,direct from all these companies.

watty

Generally if someone buys a Company it doesn't affect any agreements. In Law a Company is an entity. Who owns the shares or if it's public (listed on stock exchange) or private (unlisted) would not affect users T&C, suppliers or other contracts unless there was a specific clause.

Of course at any time either party can reopen the can of worms and ask to re-negotiate. If both parties agree to change an agreement then usually it can be changed.

yoshytoshy

watty wrote: »

Generally if someone buys a Company it doesn't affect any agreements. In Law a Company is an entity. Who owns the shares or if it's public (listed on stock exchange) or private (unlisted) would not affect users T&C, suppliers or other contracts unless there was a specific clause.

Of course at any time either party can reopen the can of worms and ask to re-negotiate. If both parties agree to change an agreement then usually it can be changed.

Cheers watty.

Orion

ionix5891 wrote: »

seems some moderators here are all for censorship

Don't be an arse.

ionix5891 wrote: »

at the risk of being banned i will disagree with you and i have to say that has to be the lamest excuse i ever heard for violating peoples freedom of speech (yes being disconnected means harder to discuss things on sites such as boards.ie or visit government and opposition websites)

You won't be banned for disagreeing with a mod - especially when the mod isn't a mod - work that out.

ionix5891 wrote: »

right now i can login into my neighbours wireless eircom router (the method is widely available on google) and download a load of music and get my neighbour disconnected from a vital resource that the internet has become, good thing im on good terms with them and wouldnt do such a thing, sigh

That would be theft. Apart from the whole illegal downloading thing you would be stealing from your neighbour - would you be comfortable with that?

ionix5891 wrote: »

DISCLAIMER: all comments and opinions by me are copyrighted to me, anyone on Eircom reading this will be getting a letter shortly .

Yes they are copyrighted to you. But you have published them on a public forum and they are perfectly allowed read them without any fear of any letter from you. It's distribution that copyright prevents. You should read Brad Templeton's 10 Myths about copyright because you obviously don't know what it entails.

nevaeh-2die-4

I have eircom have noticed since the announcement my torrents downloads have been considerably slower. They must ne throttling some how.

I have no intention on stopping downloading.

Now that it has become more strict on the downloads, I feel like downloading more ... I feel like a bad bad boy quick somebody tweak my nipples and then step on my with high heels then piss on me


All jokes aside eircom wont grass there customers up.
At most they will throttle the torrent website speeds on downloading

PaddyTheNth

Interesting story on Ars about how Harvard Law are defending a subject of RIAA litigation.

One of the group's arguments against the case is:

Second, these are essentially criminal cases and Congress has unconstitutionally delegated prosecutorial power to a "private police force" (the music business).

Rings a bell here....

ionix5891

Eircom Customers Wide Open to Erroneous Disconnection

http://torrentfreak.com/eircom-customers-wide-open-to-erroneous-disconnection-090202/

Eircom knows about the exploit and claimed to have sent letters out to every subscriber with an affected router, telling them to change their keys and/or SSID. Of course, out of that potential 250,000 subscribers, there were a huge number who had absolutely no idea what Eircom were talking about, while others did but took no action. The end result is that there are thousands of Eircom customers who are still exposed to the problem of other people doing stuff on their line that they know nothing about.

Reader Sean Byrne, who lives in Ireland told TorrentFreak, “There are lots and lots of existing WiFi signals that are open to this exploit. I’m located in Galway city, there are several ‘Eircom*** ***’ SSID’d networks located in the city that are open to this.”

i can confirm that every network so far from eircom in my locality here in galway is wide open... and a few hotels in dublin :0

murdog!

Im going to keep downloading until i get a warning, then im going to switch ISP or use my o2 broadband for downloads.

Surely they are going to go after people downloading crazy amounts and leave us honest thieves alone?

There are also many excuses that can be used: I was borrowing the music from my thousands of internet friends.

If i delete the files its the same as giving them back

jor el

murdog! wrote: »

Im going to keep downloading until i get a warning, then im going to switch ISP or use my o2 broadband for downloads.

It's rather foolish to openly admit to being a copyright infringer, on a public forum.

murdog! wrote: »

Surely they are going to go after people downloading crazy amounts and leave us honest thieves alone?

They're going after all music pirates, no matter how they do it, and in what quantities.

murdog! wrote: »

There are also many excuses that can be used: I was borrowing the music from my thousands of internet friends.

There are many excuses, but none of them are valid, and none of them will work.

murdog! wrote: »

If i delete the files its the same as giving them back

No, it's not, and it won't negate the fact that you downloaded them in the first place.

dub45

murdog! wrote: »

Im going to keep downloading until i get a warning, then im going to switch ISP or use my o2 broadband for downloads.

Surely they are going to go after people downloading crazy amounts and leave us honest thieves alone?

There are also many excuses that can be used: I was borrowing the music from my thousands of internet friends.

If i delete the files its the same as giving them back

And you would have no problem with people using that term as an excuse when they broke into your home and decided to 'share' some of your goods because they do it for 'a living'?

Or when someone uses an essay you wrote as part of their exam work? Or maybe when some fee paying IT work that you did shows up in some other business and the owner of that business declares that he is great pals with the guy you wrote for and sure its good publicity for your IT work? Oh and he intends to share it with thousands of his internet friends as well!

Or even when a few photographs that you put a lot of work into and then uploaded on to a web site suddenly show up on someone else's web site etc etc.

dub45

ionix5891 wrote: »

Eircom Customers Wide Open to Erroneous Disconnection

http://torrentfreak.com/eircom-customers-wide-open-to-erroneous-disconnection-090202/

i can confirm that every network so far from eircom in my locality here in galway is wide open... and a few hotels in dublin :0

I really do think the time has long gone when isps can be blamed for people not having their wireless routers secured properly.

There have been more than enough warnings in the media about the necessity to take precautions when using the internet for people to be wary.

As has been pointed out earlier here Eircom wrote to people warning them about the wep problem.

People learn to secure their houses, their cars etc. People have to learn to secure themselves as far as possible in the digital age. Is it o2s fault if someone walks around with their bluetooth on? Is it Netgear's fault if someone cant be ar**d to read the manual to secure a router properl.

If you walk around the city with an iphone and the wireless on you find plenty of unsecured networks some of them obviously on Eircom from the wireless ssid. Now Eircom did not lift the security on these.

Also bear in mind that the user whose network has been cracked will have two opportunities to get his security right before he or she is in danger of being thrown off by Eircom. And if they persist well they can change isp and get a shiny new router with better security!

Soby

murdog! wrote: »

Im going to keep downloading until i get a warning, then im going to switch ISP or use my o2 broadband for downloads.

Surely they are going to go after people downloading crazy amounts and leave us honest thieves alone?

i think their main aim is to go after those that are seeding the torrents or hosting the files or whatever...I dont think Eircom are really going to do anything UNTIL the other ISP's join the band wagon..otherwise you can see 2/3's(not really that many) of internet users in this country changing ISP...

Wcool

What if we all deliberately leave our wifi routers unsecured?

Wouldn't it be a hard time for anyone to prove anything AND as an added bonus, free wifi for everyone!

dazzerb

Firstly I am not condoning illegal activity on the internet. I think it is wrong to steal copyrighted material or use the internet as a means to profit illegally. I am also sorry about joining this conversation late but IMO this agreement between an ISP and a music company worries me as it is a slippery slope to less and less "Network Neutrality" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality) which is bad for everyone. We should all be very weary of ISPs cozying up with businesses like the record companies as the next logical step is that business pay (or bribe) companies like Eircom to give them a better service than others. This deal is a bad and I am pretty sure is very unique and I am not aware of any other country or ISP that has done something similar? (except for the crazy stuff China does but that is a different matter).

PaulBrewer

dazzerb wrote: »

Firstly I am not condoning illegal activity on the internet. I think it is wrong to steal copyrighted material or use the internet as a means to profit illegally. I am also sorry about joining this conversation late but IMO this agreement between an ISP and a music company worries me as it is a slippery slope to less and less "Network Neutrality" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality) which is bad for everyone. We should all be very weary of ISPs cozying up with businesses like the record companies as the next logical step is that business pay (or bribe) companies like Eircom to give them a better service than others. This deal is a bad and I am pretty sure is very unique and I am not aware of any other country or ISP that has done something similar? (except for the crazy stuff China does but that is a different matter).

Of course if lads weren't nicking stuff ......

Cabaal

Wcool wrote: »

What if we all deliberately leave our wifi routers unsecured?

Wouldn't it be a hard time for anyone to prove anything AND as an added bonus, free wifi for everyone!

You get two warnings in which you should secure your wireless, if you don't then your account gets terminated.

In addition if you leave your wireless unsecured you leave your network and PC security open to abuse both from a sense of stuff like packet sniffing your internet traffic and using your bandwidth affecting your normal usage...not smart at all.

Not a very smart way of trying to get around eircoms T&C's,

Wcool

Cabaal wrote: »

You get two warnings in which you should secure your wireless, if you don't then your account gets terminated.

In addition if you leave your wireless unsecured you leave your network and PC security open to abuse both from a sense of stuff like packet sniffing your internet traffic and using your bandwidth affecting your normal usage...not smart at all.

Not a very smart way of trying to get around eircoms T&C's,

I am not sure if it is in Eircoms T & C to encrypt your router, especially considering that Eircom is not doing a good job themselves. There is no law against having an unsecured wifi access point.

Agree fully though that it ain't clever in the world we are in now. Unless you have a way to shield public access from your own stuff. Actually Fonera tries to make a business out of this?

MRPRO03

On those P2P Sites, would changing the filename from mp3 to exe work, cause it would show that the user is not sharing a music file but is disguised as an exe for example.

jor el

MRPRO03 wrote: »

On those P2P Sites, would changing the filename from mp3 to exe work, cause it would show that the user is not sharing a music file but is disguised as an exe for example.

No.

PaddyTheNth

Wcool wrote: »

I am not sure if it is in Eircoms T & C to encrypt your router, especially considering that Eircom is not doing a good job themselves.

The T&C he was referring to is about not using the connection to share copyrighted material.

Cabaal

Soby wrote: »

i think their main aim is to go after those that are seeding the torrents or hosting the files or whatever...I dont think Eircom are really going to do anything UNTIL the other ISP's join the band wagon..otherwise you can see 2/3's(not really that many) of internet users in this country changing ISP...

and those 2/3 users you are referring to are likely heavy users so no loss to eircom, that and if they move to IBB or UTV ADSL its still giving eircom money

Cabaal

Wcool wrote: »

I am not sure if it is in Eircoms T & C to encrypt your router, especially considering that Eircom is not doing a good job themselves. There is no law against having an unsecured wifi access point.

Agree fully though that it ain't clever in the world we are in now. Unless you have a way to shield public access from your own stuff. Actually Fonera tries to make a business out of this?

You right I doubt there is any law for leaving your wifi network unsecured, however Eircom T&C's state you are responsible for usage on the ADSL line your are renting from eircom...this includes if it is used for spam, downloading copyright movies, software etc

As such you'd be very stupid to leave your wifi unsecured for the reason outlined above and in my last post (your own security).

So if you download copyright material or somebody else does using your connection you will likely get a warning advising you of this and perhaps advising you to check your wireless security, if you fail to do this after the next warning you'll be terminated.

Bottom line is ignorance or trying to be smart is not an excuse and is not going to save your neck

watty

There is a concept in Law of "responsibility"

If you leave your front door ajar you have to take some legal responsibility and may not be covered on your insurance. When the thief is sentenced the effort put to breaking in may be taken into account.

Note that over 90% of vulnerabilities are blocked by a Firewall and if your PC has MS Client or File/Printer sharing or a number of other thinks running, it can be hacked via your WiFi, but not via Internet because of the Firewall in the Router (Software firewall in Windows is near useless).

Also if the WiFi is open, someone can change the Router's WAN DNS to point to their server and thus when you use credit card, paypal, eBay, online banking to well known sites the PC browser really accesses their servers and those servers access the real sites on your behalf. Everything seems perfect but all your details are harvested.

If you are running a Hotel or Cafe with "open" WiFi, it would be a specially configured system, not a consumer router with default settings.

Making a home WiFi point insecure or open is thus irresponsible, immoral and possibly illegal in some respects. It leaves your own finances and PC open to damage.

WPA has two mode, TKIP and AES of shared key (PSK) compared with enterprise WPA which uses a Radius server.

TKIP is less secure than AES, but even it can only be broken when people use stupid or too short passwords. Some routers only do the TKIP rather than AES/WPA-2, with a very long random mixed case and numbers (use all 3), even WPA TKIP is fine.

The Nindendo DS is the only thing I know that has to use WEP for internet connection. I suggest that it isn't used on Internet for this reason.

vibe666

at the end of the day this is a little bump in the road that will stop nothing other than a few less knowledgable 'casual' downloaders. anyone with an ounce of sense will have several other ways of getting what they want and this isn't going to stop them and more than making nordinary people take their shoes off at customs.

it's just an excercise in pointless scaremongering in a vain attempt to put the clueless masses off downloading mp3's.

Dark Stanley.

These words you speak are true........

MRPRO03

jor el wrote: »

No.

I think it would. The p2p system would recognise the file as an exe, the user downloads the file, and changes the extension back to mp3, and it should work fine.