Irish defense force's problem with color blind people

ps3man

3 months ago I failed an entry medical for the reserve defense forces on the basis that I had a color deficency, I was gutted, In a heartbeat my life had changed as I had planed to go for the permanent army when I finished school; after I failed I did some research and chatted to a us marine recruiter in miami, he told me that they don't even test applicants over there for color blindness, the point I'm making is that I can't join what essentialy is dads army here but with a green card I could fight in Afghanistan, is this right? Anyone else been held back because of color blindness in any walk of life? How did u deal with it?

jill_valentine

I once had a comrade very nearly blow my head off because he somehow failed to see the giant red "Please do not shoot at me" flag that was up.

So, I can kinda see why it's important...

ps3man

Yeah I agree with you there but all I wanted to join was a local defense force which does parade in a local carpark, just don't see why it's so important for that,

christophicus

But aren't they pretty much desperate to get any recruits in their doors over there ? No offence to anyone involved at all.

kieranfitz

This seem's to vary from unit to unit, same happened to me in my medical, for green and red, but i was left in. Although it did make me nervous about applying for the navy. not that there's much point in that now.

ps3man

Yeah probably, I was told I was a liabilty with my color vison, but I had never noticed it before I failed, I just think that a us marine in tora bora would be a bigger liabilty than me parading in a car park yet he is allowed go to Afghanistan, just doesn't seem logical, maybe I'm just a sore loser

Local-womanizer

ps3man wrote: »

Yeah probably, I was told I was a liabilty with my color vison, but I had never noticed it before I failed, I just think that a us marine in tora bora would be a bigger liabilty than me parading in a car park yet he is allowed go to Afghanistan, just doesn't seem logical, maybe I'm just a sore loser

So in the RDF you are never going to shoot?To get past recruit training you have to fire the steyr at least once.Even if your local units dont have weapons on site you will go somewhere where there is to fire.

As Jill pointed out it nearly cost her her life because that someone failed to see the red flag.

Why not join the US forces?If you want to be a soilder that bad you have options.

minidazzler

jill_valentine wrote: »

I once had a comrade very nearly blow my head off because he somehow failed to see the giant red "Please do not shoot at me" flag that was up.

So, I can kinda see why it's important...

That would have nothing to do with Colour-blindness, that is simply complacency, and as we all know, complacency kills.

OP, I don't know what the problem is, I am colour-"Blind" (read: Deficiant), but I got into the RDF. It has not affected me in the slightest, but I don't know, maybe the Non-colour-deficiant doctors can tell exactly how well I can see by doing some poxy test that is specifically designed to catch out 10% of the population?

Basically I think it is Bull why they don't want to let us in, but I don't give a crap now anyway, since the PDF won't take me, I will just sell my Warez elsewhere, (i.e. I am hoping to get into the RM.)

ps3man

Yes I would have had to fire the aug in the rdf but I neve would have had to deal with ieds, mortars and a fanatical enemy hell bent on leaving me and everyone I love 6 feet under, the 2 weeks training in the summer for the rdf is not in anywer close to how dangerous the hills of Afghanistan are

minidazzler

The Difference is, The RDF isn't short on Recruits, the USMC, and all these other war-fighters are.

Simple as that, if they could afford to be as picky as the DF they probably would be.

jill_valentine

minidazzler wrote: »

That would have nothing to do with Colour-blindness, that is simply complacency, and as we all know, complacency kills.

True enough.

The point stands though; in both the armed forces and in civilian life, there's plenty of colour dependant signals and communication, and in the armed forces, there's just far less margin for error. It doesn't help that the two colours that tend to crop up especially are Red and Green...

That said, I do appreciate why it's frustrating, OP.

Local-womanizer

ps3man wrote: »

Yes I would have had to fire the aug in the rdf but I neve would have had to deal with ieds, mortars and a fanatical enemy hell bent on leaving me and everyone I love 6 feet under, the 2 weeks training in the summer for the rdf is not in anywer close to how dangerous the hills of Afghanistan are

I never said it was as dangerous,that would just be silly.

But as I pointed out,you have other options,as you have researched.But if you dont want to join the marines because of the danger level why would you want to join the PDF?

I might be wrong but it seems you have misconceptions about the Irish army and their work(PDF iam talking about)They dont have an easy job either.Being a soilder is difficult and dangerous no matter what army you are fighting in.

ps3man

Given the current global climate I'm sure there are plenty of unemplyed American men to fill vacancies in the army

ps3man

Local-womanizer wrote: »

I never said it was as dangerous,that would just be silly.

But as I pointed out,you have other options,as you have researched.But if you dont want to join the marines because of the danger level why would you want to join the PDF?

I might be wrong but it seems you have misconceptions about the Irish army and their work(PDF iam talking about)They dont have an easy job either.Being a soilder is difficult and dangerous no matter what army you are fighting in.

It's not the danger level it was the idea of been in the Irish defense force that appealed to me, I am considering the royal marines as I know they have no problems with color blind people, il have to see how it goes,

Local-womanizer

ps3man wrote: »

It's not the danger level it was the idea of been in the Irish defense force that appealed to me, I am considering the royal marines as I know they have no problems with color blind people, il have to see how it goes,

Thats what I was getting at,you have other options,hope it goes well for you!

minidazzler

jill_valentine wrote: »

True enough.

The point stands though; in both the armed forces and in civilian life, there's plenty of colour dependant signals and communication, and in the armed forces, there's just far less margin for error. It doesn't help that the two colours that tend to crop up especially are Red and Green...

That said, I do appreciate why it's frustrating, OP.

I have never in my life Mixed up Red and Green, Red/Green colour-deficiancy basically just means telling the different shades of Green apart from each other is difficult. Same goes for Red. But very few people think red is Green and vice versa, at least none that I have met.

And before someone mentions Camo, I can pick out a well Camo'ed position at 400 yards quicker than most people I know who are not Colour-deficiant, Possibly because of it.

It's a weird thing which cannot be understood or explained properly unless you have it, So I really don't want to try.

Basically what I am saying is, while it may have no effect on life in the DF, it is better to be safe than dead, and The DF has always enjoyed being an exclusive club, which tends to want the best they can get, and according to some of the Doc's in the DF, Colour-"Blind" people are not included there!!!

ps3man

Cheers, appreciate the feedback, not an easy decison ahead of me

minidazzler

ps3man wrote: »

Cheers, appreciate the feedback, not an easy decison ahead of me

Remember though, Your decision to join the Royal Marines should not be taken lightly, it is an extremely Dangerous Job, like all military's, but unlike the Irish Military, they do NOT have a Buy out of contract clause, this basically means, if you want out, you have to wait until they are ready to let you out.

I'm just pointing this out, as I have come across people who didn't realise this when they were telling me they were also going to the BAF.

(I hope this isn't contravening the charter on Foreign militaries, but that is something that should be pointed out to everyone just to be sure they are aware of it.

BostonB

minidazzler wrote: »

I have never in my life Mixed up Red and Green, Red/Green colour-deficiancy basically just means telling the different shades of Green apart from each other is difficult. Same goes for Red. But very few people think red is Green and vice versa, at least none that I have met.
...

I know at least one person who can mix them up.

Lets hope they don't have blank and live ammo painted those shades eh? Joking aside I'd say its very rare situation where it would be a problem. You're not likely to go for bomb disposal etc.

sunnyjim

ps3man wrote:

Yeah probably, I was told I was a liabilty with my color vison, but I had never noticed it before I failed, I just think that a us marine in tora bora would be a bigger liabilty than me parading in a car park yet he is allowed go to Afghanistan, just doesn't seem logical, maybe I'm just a sore loser

Yeah, it's gutting, but you're hardly a sore loser. It's a proper kick in the nuts to be barred from so many jobs.

Hartyk87

ps3man wrote: »

3 months ago I failed an entry medical for the reserve defense forces on the basis that I had a color deficency, I was gutted, In a heartbeat my life had changed as I had planed to go for the permanent army when I finished school; after I failed I did some research and chatted to a us marine recruiter in miami, he told me that they don't even test applicants over there for color blindness, the point I'm making is that I can't join what essentialy is dads army here but with a green card I could fight in Afghanistan, is this right? Anyone else been held back because of color blindness in any walk of life? How did u deal with it?

I know its some time back since you left this message. but I ran into the same problem. I applied for a Navel cadetship 3 years ago and I put alot of time and effort into training for the tests. I passed into the fina 50 cadets and i failed on the ishara colour plates. I understand if I got refused for been fully colour blind but the killing thing about it is I know all my colours and can identify all of them. Just wondering are you still interested in joing the army in america or whats your possition.

Kat1170

ps3man wrote: »

the point I'm making is that I can't join what essentialy is dads army here

You sure you really want to with an attitude like that.

minidazzler

Kat1170 wrote: »

You sure you really want to with an attitude like that.

That is an attitude likely gained after rejection, and it's the reserves, if they can let in people who are quite literally Obese, why does colour-deficiency make a difference.

concussion

minidazzler wrote: »

That is an attitude likely gained after rejection, and it's the reserves, if they can let in people who are quite literally Obese, why does colour-deficiency make a difference.

and also the stupid, lazy and unenthusiastic......but there are good ones too :D

Local-womanizer

minidazzler wrote: »

That is an attitude likely gained after rejection, and it's the reserves, if they can let in people who are quite literally Obese, why does colour-deficiency make a difference.

Ouite right about the obese.But what is the story with the annual fitness test?

concussion

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Ouite right about the obese.But what is the story with the annual fitness test?

There is no fitness testing in the RDF save for career courses. And boy does it weed out those who thought they were good enough to be NCO's!!!!!

TomRooney

ps3man wrote: »

3 months ago I failed an entry medical for the reserve defense forces on the basis that I had a color deficency, I was gutted, In a heartbeat my life had changed as I had planed to go for the permanent army when I finished school; after I failed I did some research and chatted to a us marine recruiter in miami, he told me that they don't even test applicants over there for color blindness, the point I'm making is that I can't join what essentialy is dads army here but with a green card I could fight in Afghanistan, is this right? Anyone else been held back because of color blindness in any walk of life? How did u deal with it?

i wish to object to your calling the Permenant Defence forces "dads army" in comparison to the yanks, firstly the yanks are notoriously badly trained. there basic rec training is about 12 weeks in which time they only specialize on 1 weapon.

in comparison to the PDF training which runs at 26 weeks, covering training on machine guns, assault rifles, grenades, anti armour weapons and a wide range of tactics.

the irish are lacking in technology which the yanks have in abundance, but the individual irish soldier would leave a yank soldier looking foolish as far as training is concerned.

there are very valid reasons for coulor blindness tests, such as different ammo having different coulor codes and different artillery bombs having different coulor codes, you wouldnt want to be loading live rounds into your rifle when you where supposed to loading blanks now would you.

the yanks will take anyone because all they want is cannon fodder just like the brits they wont discriminate against whoever wants to take a bullet for them.

TomRooney

concussion wrote: »

There is no fitness testing in the RDF save for career courses. And boy does it weed out those who thought they were good enough to be NCO's!!!!!

the RDF carrer courses are less than mediocre if anyone is having trouble on these toy courses then forget about joining the PDF where all the trainig is 100 times more intense. especialy the nco courses.

there is no comparison between the RDF and the PDF, it realy pisses me off when i hear RDF heads going around saying there in the army, and thinking they are trained to the same standard as profesional soldiers.

that said the rdf is not a bad thing if you wanna use it to meet new people or the like, but dont be under the illusion its the army...its NOT.

jill_valentine

TomRooney wrote: »

i wish to object to your calling the Permenant Defence forces "dads army" in comparison to the yanks, firstly the yanks are notoriously badly trained. there basic rec training is about 12 weeks in which time they only specialize on 1 weapon.

in comparison to the PDF training which runs at 26 weeks, covering training on machine guns, assault rifles, grenades, anti armour weapons and a wide range of tactics.

the irish are lacking in technology which the yanks have in abundance, but the individual irish soldier would leave a yank soldier looking foolish as far as training is concerned.

there are very valid reasons for coulor blindness tests, such as different ammo having different coulor codes and different artillery bombs having different coulor codes, you wouldnt want to be loading live rounds into your rifle when you where supposed to loading blanks now would you.

the yanks will take anyone because all they want is cannon fodder just like the brits they wont discriminate against whoever wants to take a bullet for them.

Temper your outrage, and re-read his initial post. He was referring to the Reserves from the start.

concussion

TomRooney wrote: »

the RDF carrer courses are less than mediocre if anyone is having trouble on these toy courses then forget about joining the PDF where all the trainig is 100 times more intense. especialy the nco courses.

Read my post - people are unfit not incapable.

TomRooney wrote: »

i wish to object to your calling the Permenant Defence forces "dads army" in comparison to the yanks, firstly the yanks are notoriously badly trained. there basic rec training is about 12 weeks in which time they only specialize on 1 weapon.

in comparison to the PDF training which runs at 26 weeks, covering training on machine guns, assault rifles, grenades, anti armour weapons and a wide range of tactics.

Irish recruit training is 16 weeks not 26. The separate 2-3* course which follows is where GPMG etc are covered.

minidazzler

TomRooney wrote: »

i wish to object to your calling the Permenant Defence forces "dads army" in comparison to the yanks, firstly the yanks are notoriously badly trained. there basic rec training is about 12 weeks in which time they only specialize on 1 weapon.

in comparison to the PDF training which runs at 26 weeks, covering training on machine guns, assault rifles, grenades, anti armour weapons and a wide range of tactics.

the irish are lacking in technology which the yanks have in abundance, but the individual irish soldier would leave a yank soldier looking foolish as far as training is concerned.

there are very valid reasons for coulor blindness tests, such as different ammo having different coulor codes and different artillery bombs having different coulor codes, you wouldnt want to be loading live rounds into your rifle when you where supposed to loading blanks now would you.

the yanks will take anyone because all they want is cannon fodder just like the brits they wont discriminate against whoever wants to take a bullet for them.

1) He was refering to the Reserves.

2) The American's have to have shorter training given their Intake. Also, They're are alot more role's in the American Military, They do specialisation in alot of fields, and the lads that go on to the AIT type course's do alot of weapon's systems.

3) Which Individual Irish soldier could leave which Yank looking foolish? I will assume then that you meant the Average Irish Infantry against the Average American Infantry. On average, that American would have been in Iraq, maybe taken lots of fire, and no disrespect to Irish soldiers, but the average served in Kosovo, different ballparks. You are not comparing like with like.

4) You know very little about colour-"blindness". It should technically be called colour-deficiency.

5) The Yank and the Brit's don't actually take anyone. but they have waivers for alot of people because they can. They have vacancies for a crapload. and Please don't say that's because of the amount dying, because it isn't. And, Sure the Brit's will take anyone, but then they train them to one of the highest standard's in the world, so how bad.

Duffers

Blank rounds will not be confused with live rounds, as blanks are fired from a different mag, and are crimped.
As for describing UK Forces personnel as cannon fodder; I have never met a soldier who has held such views of another. I find such views reprehensible.
People from other countries read this forum, and I hope they do not see people with your views as representative of our country.

minidazzler

Duffers wrote: »

Blank rounds will not be confused with live rounds, as blanks are fired from a different mag, and are crimped.

Really?? I have always used the standard Mags for Blanks.


Also, if you are depending on Colour's to tell the difference between blank and ball ammunition, then you should not be using the weapon.

Duffers

The mags you will be issued in training for the L85A2 will have a lip that extends upwards from the mag, designed to prevent live rounds being loaded. Always lower the lip when cleaning the mag, it catches a lot of carbon!!!

minidazzler

Duffers wrote: »

The mags you will be issued in training for the L85A2 will have a lip that extends upwards from the mag, designed to prevent live rounds being loaded. Always lower the lip when cleaning the mag, it catches a lot of carbon!!!

Oh I forgot you were in training for the Royal's. I was talking about the Steyr!!!

Duffers

Sorry, I presumed that would be the case with the Steyr also! I will be very interested to hear how you feel the two weapons compare against each other....colour blind or not! I have heard the same thing you mentioned, that the red/green deficiency can make it easier to spot cam, have you noticed that on stalks/obs stances?

minidazzler

Duffers wrote: »

Sorry, I presumed that would be the case with the Steyr also! I will be very interested to hear how you feel the two weapons compare against each other....colour blind or not! I have heard the same thing you mentioned, that the red/green deficiency can make it easier to spot cam, have you noticed that on stalks/obs stances?

I've never been on proper stalks and ****e, but yes I can pick out a camoed position fairly well and have to give a full on indication to most other people,

"It's right fcukin there", evidentally is not a proper way to indicate a target.

goldie fish

jill_valentine wrote: »

True enough.

The point stands though; in both the armed forces and in civilian life, there's plenty of colour dependant signals and communication, and in the armed forces, there's just far less margin for error. It doesn't help that the two colours that tend to crop up especially are Red and Green...

That said, I do appreciate why it's frustrating, OP.

Im colourblind and can tell the difference between red and green flags. Anyone who says they cant cos they are colourblind is talking utter bollocks.:mad:

testicle

The Defence Forces gets more than enough qualified applicants that are not colourblind, so why should they bother opening this up even further?

BostonB

goldie fish wrote: »

Im colourblind and can tell the difference between red and green flags. Anyone who says they cant cos they are colourblind is talking utter bollocks.:mad:

The only person I know with colour problems have problems not with all green and red. But certain shades and hues of red and green. Sometimes similar shades and hues of other colours too, but mainly green and red.

bunny shooter

As long as a soldier can see a white flag they should be ok

fitzyked

BostonB wrote: »

The only person I know with colour problems have problems not with all green and red. But certain shades and hues of red and green. Sometimes similar shades and hues of other colours too, but mainly green and red.

thats the problem i have exempt its easy to mix up dark blue and purple or dark purple and black

Savage93

Just build a bridge and GET OVER IT!!, there are good reasons for colour blind tests , as already stated, You don't need a green card to join the US army, they are so hard up for recruits they'll take anyone, they may even promise you a green card after 5 years enlistment , even you, and it should be a bit more exciting than "parading with Dad's army in a car park"

Manic Moran

You do realise that this is a resurrected thread, right?

And by the way, your information is wrong.

NTM

minidazzler

Savage93 wrote: »

Just build a bridge and GET OVER IT!!, there are good reasons for colour blind tests , as already stated, You don't need a green card to join the US army, they are so hard up for recruits they'll take anyone, they may even promise you a green card after 5 years enlistment , even you, and it should be a bit more exciting than "parading with Dad's army in a car park"

Yes, you do need a green card. They won't help you get one.

There aren't really that good of reasons for it, only for certain trades.

discus

Savage93 wrote: »

Just build a bridge and GET OVER IT!!, there are good reasons for colour blind tests , as already stated, You don't need a green card to join the US army, they are so hard up for recruits they'll take anyone, they may even promise you a green card after 5 years enlistment , even you, and it should be a bit more exciting than "parading with Dad's army in a car park"

What good reasons? The brits and yanks don't think much of the rule, as they gladly accept people who can't safely distinguish certain colours.

eannamor

I'm sure this has been said before in the thread but it is down to the simple fact that the PDF have never been short on applicants. They can be as select as they want. I would also assume that it has something to do with the claims put in against the army some years ago about hearing loss. The military simply wants to protect itself against any possible litigation by filtering out anyone with the slightest irregularity to their physical condition, so that they cannot be blamed for its presence, occurence or degradation. I am currently awaiting call to medical for general service, and though I am an active member of the reserves I do wonder if I will pass (not implying that being a reservist entitles me to anything, simply that one will be distinctly more rigorous than the other). As such we both may be in the same boat, refused for a tiny detail.

arybvtcw0eolkf

eannamor wrote: »

II am currently awaiting call to medical for general service, and though I am an active member of the reserves I do wonder if I will pass .

My advice for you would be to book a medical with your family G.P. and address any problems you may have coming up to the army medical.. You've only got one go at the medical, and fore warned is fore armed.

the_syco

BostonB wrote: »

I know at least one person who can mix them up.

Lets hope they don't have blank and live ammo painted those shades eh? Joking aside I'd say its very rare situation where it would be a problem. You're not likely to go for bomb disposal etc.

Well, not that you mention it, this comes to mind

goldie fish

The ignorance of the condition displayed by some here is apalling.

onthefloat123

Is the Ishiara used to determine colurbliness in the medical?